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  • Subject: OFFICIAL: The Arab Spring, Libyan rebels fighting in Tripoli UPDATE420
Subject: OFFICIAL: The Arab Spring, Libyan rebels fighting in Tripoli UPDATE420

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: I Nebula I
Have you noticed his personal guard has just vanished.
they surrendered on Sunday back when they captured Mohammad Gaddafi, before he escaped


All of them? I don't think so. He'll need protection and a lot of it, some would have went with him.

  • 08.24.2011 1:43 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Gandalf
I have a question about the rebels, do they support the Muslim brotherhood?

Also do you think Libya will become an Islamist state?
Well the brotherhood I don't know and I see no problem with the latter.

Islam is not violent its the extremists that kill in its name for no reason at all.
I think he is meaning as in the Islamist Movement(extremists) vs the people who follow the teachings of Islam.

  • 08.24.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: I Nebula I

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: I Nebula I
Have you noticed his personal guard has just vanished.
they surrendered on Sunday back when they captured Mohammad Gaddafi, before he escaped


All of them? I don't think so. He'll need protection and a lot of it, some would have went with him.

I doubt all, but a good chunk did.

  • 08.24.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Stupid ass washing machine...

The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?

  • 08.24.2011 1:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Gandalf
I have a question about the rebels, do they support the Muslim brotherhood?

Also do you think Libya will become an Islamist state?
They have support politically from the Muslim Brotherhood, but it is an arms distance relationship, some ideals don't align there.

I really don't think that Libya will become an extremist state. these people have fought too hard for their own freedom for that to happen.

Thanks for the info!

Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Gandalf
I have a question about the rebels, do they support the Muslim brotherhood?

Also do you think Libya will become an Islamist state?
Well the brotherhood I don't know and I see no problem with the latter.

Islam is not violent its the extremists that kill in its name for no reason at all.

I never said it was a problem. They were just talking about it on the news, and i was curious of what you guys thought.

  • 08.24.2011 1:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Gandalf
I have a question about the rebels, do they support the Muslim brotherhood?

Also do you think Libya will become an Islamist state?
Well the brotherhood I don't know and I see no problem with the latter.

Islam is not violent its the extremists that kill in its name for no reason at all.
I think he is meaning as in the Islamist Movement(extremists) vs the people who follow the teachings of Islam.

Yes, that is what i meant.

  • 08.24.2011 1:48 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan


Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?


And PMCs like Halliburton and KB&R will go in to rebuilt on multi-million dollar contracts by the US government making hundreds of millions or billions in profit.

'War and its consumption of life, has become a well oiled machine'

  • 08.24.2011 1:52 PM PDT


Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?
People wanted help to lead better lives we honoured them by not putting boots on the ground WE PAYED them to keep up the fight and gave them free weapons and body armour.

So what if there is oil in the country im sure if the USA started a civil war other nations would jump in and help the people.

Some times oil or other resources takes a back seat to the genocide of millions of innocents.


Then why are there oil-less African countries who are treated ten times worse than those treated in Libya and have been begging America for help for years before Libya only to be ignored?

Accept it, we are there for the oil.

  • 08.24.2011 1:53 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?
you obviously don't know much about this.

NATO is at a very arms length distance in this matter, and Gaddafi was pretty pro-western governments before this and sold the west a lot of oil for pretty cheap.

The rebels started this and NATO has kept a distance on this specifically so that nobody accuses them of putting in a puppet government. the Rebels have also said they don't want to have the west interfering with their elections, so the people realise it's not a puppet government.

  • 08.24.2011 1:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?
People wanted help to lead better lives we honoured them by not putting boots on the ground WE PAYED them to keep up the fight and gave them free weapons and body armour.

So what if there is oil in the country im sure if the USA started a civil war other nations would jump in and help the people.

Some times oil or other resources takes a back seat to the genocide of millions of innocents.


Then why are there oil-less African countries who are treated ten times worse than those treated in Libya and have been begging America for help for years before Libya only to be ignored?

Accept it, we are there for the oil.
Because we can only do so much. As far as im aware syria has no oil and we are trying to help them.

Africa has little to offer in trade and no stability with or without a dictator. Lybia and other places are generally more developed countries which we help.


I agree with lonepaul in this one. We could have easily sided with Gaddafi and kept our oil deals, and its not like we are suddenly going to get free oil when Libya is liberated. They will elect there own leader and we wont get much out of it, except maybe another democratic country.

A more sensible reason is maybe that Gaddafi made an enemy of the west with stuff like the Lockerbie bombing were hundreds of americans were killed by a Libyan agent

  • 08.24.2011 1:59 PM PDT
Subject: OFFICIAL: The Arab Spring, Libyan rebels fighting in Tripoli UPDATE421

Sooooo ermmmm I dunno. I'm Venomous Ivy, I'm 17, I live in West London, I'm female, I'm a social democrat, I like to draw, and I like to play games more than the healthy person should soooo...ya :p


Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?

And this is why they requested SPECIFICALLY no troops on the ground when it would've ended the war three months ago. With the rebels on the ground, it's likely the chairman of their council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil will take power.

Although the western countries are benefitting from this of course. You think this is for nothing? The rebels wish to share their oil with bias, giving more to countries involved in helping them like France, Italy, Britain, etc. It's a thank you gift, frankly. Although getting the oil rigs up in operation again could take some time...

Anyway, to be honest, I'm incredibly happy this all went well. A cruel dictator was driven out of power, and for once the UN have shown their use; and while the right wing may claim the rebels want to create an Islamic dictator state, considering the fact "democracy" is in their very motto, that is very unlikely indeed.

The new Libya will probably have a rocky, poor start but maybe through time it will become great. Considering its position it could be a great centre of influence for democracy in the area.

As for Gadaffi, it would be a shame to see him crudely executed on sight like Bin Laden. He deserves Hussein's fate. It's been a good while since the UN has had a nice trail...

As for the oil issue by the way, you do realise if it were for oil, China and Russia would've got involved? Because of their support of Gaddaffi's rulership they will in fact be receiving LESS from Libya once the rebels are in power.

[Edited on 08.24.2011 2:08 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2011 2:02 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: bergXX09

Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: TwiggyShip
The sad fact of the matter is, despite the fact that Gaddafi's regime was oppressive and wrong, we aren't helping the rebels because we genuinely care.

We're helping them because Libya has some of the best oil in the world right now, and we're just using the rebels as a free army that we won't be reprimanded for if damages are taken. Once the rebels have taken control of Libya our governments will put a puppet leader/government at it's head and we'll drain all their resources.

Seriously, is nothing sacred these days?
People wanted help to lead better lives we honoured them by not putting boots on the ground WE PAYED them to keep up the fight and gave them free weapons and body armour.

So what if there is oil in the country im sure if the USA started a civil war other nations would jump in and help the people.

Some times oil or other resources takes a back seat to the genocide of millions of innocents.


Then why are there oil-less African countries who are treated ten times worse than those treated in Libya and have been begging America for help for years before Libya only to be ignored?

Accept it, we are there for the oil.
if the western powers are in it for the oil, why aren't they intervening in Yemen to this degree? they have oil. It's not about oil.

[Edited on 08.24.2011 2:04 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2011 2:03 PM PDT

Muslim4Life

Bismillah,

Hello all,

I'll be honest, I think Libya having oil must have been factored into the decision. Though think of it this way: If it was all 100% about the oil, then the US/EU and other national wouldn't have joined in a war where oil production will be disrupted for such a long time. Not to mention the months of downtime (maybe years?) it will take to bring the wells back up to 100% production.

I am a Libyan born and raised in the US who now lives in Libya. I also work in the oil sector so i have pretty good knowledge about oil politics. Under Daffy's (my nickname for the bastard) regime, Libyan engineers and workers get 1/5 the salary of a foreign worker. Now, under the new government, that is expected to change and is expected that Libyan be given the same amount if not more than foreign workers.

Economically, this doesn't make much business sense as you (the foreign oil company) will face less profits than before. This is just a small example, its not doctrine.

But like i said, i think oil does play some role into the equation; i wont try and deny that, and i think it would naiive to think that it totally doesn't.

As for the "How come the US isn't helping Yemen or Syria?" question, then i can only say the following:
1 - neither yemen nor syria have officially asked for aid
2 - Libya was lucky to have, for the lack of a better word, call first for help. however, the financial toll it has taken on the currently economically troubled powers is probably a major reason why they haven't gone in.
3 - public opinion about the west policing the world is becoming more negative. I have to say that first thanks should be given to God for bringing us this support, and second we were simply lucky to have the aid come in in the first place.

As for the "why not help the smaller african nations" argument: then here i have to say im stomped. i can't offer a real reason. the only thing i can say is that if the NTC did not form where all the free libyans could recognize as the official representative, then help might not have come due to the possibility of further chaos emerging soon after.

Sallamu Alaikum.

  • 08.24.2011 2:49 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan


Posted by: Phoenix1330
if the western powers are in it for the oil, why aren't they intervening in Yemen to this degree? they have oil. It's not about oil.


You're deluded to think that Oil doesn't come in to the equation at all.

And as for Yemen? Well it isn't in strategic geography. Look where Libya is, right on the door step of Europe. And look at Italy sending in their Oil companies when the others know it's safe the others will move in.

  • 08.24.2011 3:01 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: LybianMadMan
Bismillah,

Hello all,

I'll be honest, I think Libya having oil must have been factored into the decision. Though think of it this way: If it was all 100% about the oil, then the US/EU and other national wouldn't have joined in a war where oil production will be disrupted for such a long time. Not to mention the months of downtime (maybe years?) it will take to bring the wells back up to 100% production.

I am a Libyan born and raised in the US who now lives in Libya. I also work in the oil sector so i have pretty good knowledge about oil politics. Under Daffy's (my nickname for the bastard) regime, Libyan engineers and workers get 1/5 the salary of a foreign worker. Now, under the new government, that is expected to change and is expected that Libyan be given the same amount if not more than foreign workers.

Economically, this doesn't make much business sense as you (the foreign oil company) will face less profits than before. This is just a small example, its not doctrine.

But like i said, i think oil does play some role into the equation; i wont try and deny that, and i think it would naiive to think that it totally doesn't.

As for the "How come the US isn't helping Yemen or Syria?" question, then i can only say the following:
1 - neither yemen nor syria have officially asked for aid
2 - Libya was lucky to have, for the lack of a better word, call first for help. however, the financial toll it has taken on the currently economically troubled powers is probably a major reason why they haven't gone in.
3 - public opinion about the west policing the world is becoming more negative. I have to say that first thanks should be given to God for bringing us this support, and second we were simply lucky to have the aid come in in the first place.

As for the "why not help the smaller african nations" argument: then here i have to say im stomped. i can't offer a real reason. the only thing i can say is that if the NTC did not form where all the free libyans could recognize as the official representative, then help might not have come due to the possibility of further chaos emerging soon after.

Sallamu Alaikum.
Based on your forum name, I assume you are Madmanmoe over on the Rooster Teeth forum, Thanks for hopping over here for the insight. I appreciate it!

  • 08.24.2011 3:05 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: I Nebula I

Posted by: Phoenix1330
if the western powers are in it for the oil, why aren't they intervening in Yemen to this degree? they have oil. It's not about oil.


You're deluded to think that Oil doesn't come in to the equation at all.

And as for Yemen? Well it isn't in strategic geography. Look where Libya is, right on the door step of Europe. And look at Italy sending in their Oil companies when the others know it's safe the others will move in.
it's a factor, but it certainly isn't the one and only reason, and certainly not the driving factor.

  • 08.24.2011 3:06 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: I Nebula I

Posted by: Phoenix1330
if the western powers are in it for the oil, why aren't they intervening in Yemen to this degree? they have oil. It's not about oil.


You're deluded to think that Oil doesn't come in to the equation at all.

And as for Yemen? Well it isn't in strategic geography. Look where Libya is, right on the door step of Europe. And look at Italy sending in their Oil companies when the others know it's safe the others will move in.
it's a factor, but it certainly isn't the one and only reason, and certainly not the driving factor.


No the driving factor is the western powers putting in a puppet government for their own interests, which they are already doing.

  • 08.24.2011 3:07 PM PDT

there are currently high level talks going on between NATO partners about what to do about Gaddafi's Chemical weapon stashes.

i agree with whoever said that if this was about Oil NATO wouldn't of gotten involved because of the disruption of service that would of come with the intervention.

  • 08.24.2011 3:18 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

I have invited madmanmoe from the rooster teeth forums here to keep us updated from a Libyan perspective. His B.Net name is LibyanMadMan, he lives in Benghazi.

  • 08.24.2011 4:01 PM PDT
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The Yemeni opposition wants the west to freeze all of Saleh's assets

Al-Qaeda is stepping up attacks in South Yemen

  • 08.24.2011 5:44 PM PDT

Syria update

Unified Syrian opposition council hit by delay

and it appears we ran into another BRICS wall at the UN. this time over UN sanctions. i think they forget Turkey is about to say -Blam!- the UN and go in there self.

  • 08.24.2011 8:05 PM PDT