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  • Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE210
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE210

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: wii60 owner
Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: wii60 owner
Posted by: Seggi31


I think Russia agrees with you. Out of interest, why?
Because I don't believe in illegal wars.
We are not the world police and shouldn't have to be.
Illegal wars?

Do you think people get together and decide to have a war for -blam!-s n giggles?

The guy kills civilians thats a crime against human rights, we are their to try and protect those rights. I do think we need some boots on the ground at this point at least just to protect cities that the Rebels capture and not used to advance.
It's illegal because it didn't go through congress
If the people didn't vote on it it isn't legitimate

1) President can authorize deployment wherever he wants. The technical details that have to pass congress is how long we can stay there and how it gets funded.
2) Specify "we" next time because not everyone here is American.
3) We aren't in Libya anymore. We fly planes over the airspace and shoot down anything that violates the no fly zone, which in recent weeks has been nothing really. We aren't doing bombing runs.
thanks. Also note that if any war is legal, it's this one. The UN resolutions made it legal for other countries to intervene. It also made Gaddafi an illegal combatant.

  • 04.06.2011 9:05 AM PDT
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1998 August 24 – The first RFID human implantation is tested in the United Kingdom.


Posted by: Phoenix1330

pro-democracy supporters

Not only people who surport democracy want freedom in there goverment.

  • 04.06.2011 9:11 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
The rebels have been seen carrying P90-S bullpup SpecOps Rifles.

interesting point as these are a pretty high end rifle from Belgium

P90s a 5.7mm SMG.
Actually the P-90 is a bullpup personal defence rifle. It falls into the SMG category due to it's high rate of fire(900 rounds/min)

It has a 10.4 inch barrel and is fired from the shoulder making it a rifle.

Bullpup refers to the fact that it's action (read bolt) is housed in the stock of the rifle to allow for greater barrel length and accuracy in a more compact weapon system.

It was designed by FN international as a special forces weapon for NATO and uses a 5.7x28 round which is standard across many custom sspecial forces weapons

The 'S' variant has a permanently attached silencer with a slightly longer barrel, and was developed specifically for Canadian special forces, as opposed to the PS-90 which is an optional silencer variant that maintains the 10.4 inch barrel


I know my stuff about my rifles :)

I already know that but its manufactured and advertised as an SMG due to the fact it fires the 5.7x28mm pistol round developed for the FiveseveN (weird name, I know).

Officially to be classified a rifle, it must be firing a rifle class round, i.e. .223, 30.06, 7.62x51mm NATO, etc, etc, while
a Sub-Machine Gun (SMG) is any automatic carbine that fires pistol rounds.

The P90 is manufactured by FN Herstal, a Belgium based weapons company that also developed the SCAR-H battle rifle and F2000 bullpup assault weapon.
The P90 has a Rate Of Fire (ROF) of 900 rounds per minute and a maximum range of 1800 meters, with a maximum effective range of 200 meters.
Its 5.7 mike mike rounds can peirce level three kevlar vests at 200 meters and uses a closed bolt, straight blowback action.
The weapon is supposed to combine the small size of Personal Defence Weapons (PDWs) with power of a 5.56mm comabt rifle.
It uses a tritium illuminated reflex sight, with backup/optional iron sights, and is loaded with a fifty round box magazine.


I know my guns too
Actually the 5.7x28mm round was developed by FN international for NATO as a replacement for 9mm SMG and light arms ammunition as it was capable of penetrating Kevlar. The first weapon to use it was the P-90.

The Five-seveN is named such due to the type of ammo it uses(5.7x28mm) and capitalizes the F and N to signify the manufacturer (FN international)

The P-90(named such as a shortening of 'project 1990' the year it was made in) is not marketed as an SMG but as a Personal Defence Weapon

  • 04.06.2011 9:12 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Legendary Member

All You Need Is Love


GAZEBOS!

Wow...I got in on this thread when it was just a little baby....first page....not really an addition to this conversation....I just never expected this thread to get so big....

  • 04.06.2011 9:15 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

@Gamerfreak
The Libyan rebels have made it very clear that the want democracy. Actually of all the uprisings in the middle east and Africa only one country isn't publicly demanding democracy. That being Yemen.

  • 04.06.2011 9:16 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

The Eastern Front in Libya has turned into an effective stalemate with neither side being able to advance. Gaddafi forces still hold the town of Brega and the Rebels hold Ajdabiya

NATO is saying they will refocus on Misurata under the request of the rebels, but are saying it is difficult to attack Gaddafi forces in Misurata as they have attached their heavy weapons to civilian vehicles and are using civilian hostages as human sheilds to stop NATO from bombing them.

  • 04.06.2011 9:59 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Rebels have secured the midway station of al-Arbaeen between Brega and Ajdabiya

  • 04.06.2011 10:48 AM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World MAJOR UPDATE199
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Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: chucky chief
I dont think gaddafi can keep this up. With reports of disrest from tripoli and Britain, France and the US helping the rebels, its only a matter of time before he cracks.
He can keep it up so long as the coalition relies solely on air strikes. Human shields=no bombing runs.


The coalition strikes wont do much apart from hold the stalemate. What im talking about is the lack of supplies in tripoli, and the growing unrest their. And their was a source saying that a third of gaddafis military had been destroyed. And he cant fly reinforcements in.
I think the lack of supplies in Tripoli is the most dangerous one for gaddafi though. Thats his last stronghold, and if that goes then the whole rechime goes

  • 04.06.2011 11:03 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: chucky chief
I dont think gaddafi can keep this up. With reports of disrest from tripoli and Britain, France and the US helping the rebels, its only a matter of time before he cracks.
He can keep it up so long as the coalition relies solely on air strikes. Human shields=no bombing runs.


The coalition strikes wont do much apart from hold the stalemate. What im talking about is the lack of supplies in tripoli, and the growing unrest their. And their was a source saying that a third of gaddafis military had been destroyed. And he cant fly reinforcements in.
I think the lack of supplies in Tripoli is the most dangerous one for gaddafi though. Thats his last stronghold, and if that goes then the whole rechime goes
indeed. they barely have enough now and they aren't even under seige.

  • 04.06.2011 11:09 AM PDT

i think the only way to really save Misrata at this point is to put troops on the ground

  • 04.06.2011 12:07 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE211

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

it sure looks that way. i fear that too.

'All means necessary' stated in resolution 1973 does allow for ground support to be deployed as a last result. we'll see where that goes.

[Edited on 04.06.2011 12:11 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2011 12:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Phoenix1330
it sure looks that way. i fear that too.

'All means necessary' stated in resolution 1973 does allow for ground support to be deployed as a last result. we'll see where that goes.


a reminder that the United States should have about 3000 Marines from a combination of the Kearsarge Group and the Bataan Amphibious Assault Group off the coast of Libya

that is assuming the Kearsarge didn't leave, if i recall Bataan was suppose to take its place

  • 04.06.2011 12:16 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE210
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.



Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
The rebels have been seen carrying P90-S bullpup SpecOps Rifles.

interesting point as these are a pretty high end rifle from Belgium[/quote]
P90s a 5.7mm SMG.[/quote]Actually the P-90 is a bullpup personal defence rifle. It falls into the SMG category due to it's high rate of fire(900 rounds/min)

It has a 10.4 inch barrel and is fired from the shoulder making it a rifle.

Bullpup refers to the fact that it's action (read bolt) is housed in the stock of the rifle to allow for greater barrel length and accuracy in a more compact weapon system.

It was designed by FN international as a special forces weapon for NATO and uses a 5.7x28 round which is standard across many custom sspecial forces weapons

The 'S' variant has a permanently attached silencer with a slightly longer barrel, and was developed specifically for Canadian special forces, as opposed to the PS-90 which is an optional silencer variant that maintains the 10.4 inch barrel


I know my stuff about my rifles :)

I already know that but its manufactured and advertised as an SMG due to the fact it fires the 5.7x28mm pistol round developed for the FiveseveN (weird name, I know).

Officially to be classified a rifle, it must be firing a rifle class round, i.e. .223, 30.06, 7.62x51mm NATO, etc, etc, while
a Sub-Machine Gun (SMG) is any automatic carbine that fires pistol rounds.

The P90 is manufactured by FN Herstal, a Belgium based weapons company that also developed the SCAR-H battle rifle and F2000 bullpup assault weapon.
The P90 has a Rate Of Fire (ROF) of 900 rounds per minute and a maximum range of 1800 meters, with a maximum effective range of 200 meters.
Its 5.7 mike mike rounds can peirce level three kevlar vests at 200 meters and uses a closed bolt, straight blowback action.
The weapon is supposed to combine the small size of Personal Defence Weapons (PDWs) with power of a 5.56mm comabt rifle.
It uses a tritium illuminated reflex sight, with backup/optional iron sights, and is loaded with a fifty round box magazine.


I know my guns too

The way that is formatted, it looks like you just copied and pasted that from Wikipedia or another source.

Just saying.
Indeed.

Sorry, I wright like that when I'm trying to remember stuff. its a bad habit.
Now I think we should get back on topic.

  • 04.06.2011 12:21 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
The rebels have been seen carrying P90-S bullpup SpecOps Rifles.

interesting point as these are a pretty high end rifle from Belgium

P90s a 5.7mm SMG.
Actually the P-90 is a bullpup personal defence rifle. It falls into the SMG category due to it's high rate of fire(900 rounds/min)

It has a 10.4 inch barrel and is fired from the shoulder making it a rifle.

Bullpup refers to the fact that it's action (read bolt) is housed in the stock of the rifle to allow for greater barrel length and accuracy in a more compact weapon system.

It was designed by FN international as a special forces weapon for NATO and uses a 5.7x28 round which is standard across many custom sspecial forces weapons

The 'S' variant has a permanently attached silencer with a slightly longer barrel, and was developed specifically for Canadian special forces, as opposed to the PS-90 which is an optional silencer variant that maintains the 10.4 inch barrel


I know my stuff about my rifles :)

I already know that but its manufactured and advertised as an SMG due to the fact it fires the 5.7x28mm pistol round developed for the FiveseveN (weird name, I know).

Officially to be classified a rifle, it must be firing a rifle class round, i.e. .223, 30.06, 7.62x51mm NATO, etc, etc, while
a Sub-Machine Gun (SMG) is any automatic carbine that fires pistol rounds.

The P90 is manufactured by FN Herstal, a Belgium based weapons company that also developed the SCAR-H battle rifle and F2000 bullpup assault weapon.
The P90 has a Rate Of Fire (ROF) of 900 rounds per minute and a maximum range of 1800 meters, with a maximum effective range of 200 meters.
Its 5.7 mike mike rounds can peirce level three kevlar vests at 200 meters and uses a closed bolt, straight blowback action.
The weapon is supposed to combine the small size of Personal Defence Weapons (PDWs) with power of a 5.56mm comabt rifle.
It uses a tritium illuminated reflex sight, with backup/optional iron sights, and is loaded with a fifty round box magazine.


I know my guns too
Actually the 5.7x28mm round was developed by FN international for NATO as a replacement for 9mm SMG and light arms ammunition as it was capable of penetrating Kevlar. The first weapon to use it was the P-90.

The Five-seveN is named such due to the type of ammo it uses(5.7x28mm) and capitalizes the F and N to signify the manufacturer (FN international)

The P-90(named such as a shortening of 'project 1990' the year it was made in) is not marketed as an SMG but as a Personal Defence Weapon

A PDW is an SMG. Marketing names be damned. A PDW is defined as "a small, compact, easy to use automatic weapon firing pistol caliber rounds."
Sounds like an SMG to me
And I forgot about the P90 coming first, I'll admit to that

  • 04.06.2011 12:25 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: That Atheist
A PDW is an SMG. Marketing names be damned. A PDW is defined as "a small, compact, easy to use automatic weapon firing pistol caliber rounds."
Sounds like an SMG to me
And I forgot about the P90 coming first, I'll admit to that

My point really comes down to the fact that the P-90, regardless of it being an SMG is still a rifle. the vast majority of SMGs are. They have a long enough barrel to allow for riffling(longer than 5 inches) and have a buttstock.

regardless, we are arguing semantics off topic. lets redirect.

  • 04.06.2011 12:35 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
A PDW is an SMG. Marketing names be damned. A PDW is defined as "a small, compact, easy to use automatic weapon firing pistol caliber rounds."
Sounds like an SMG to me
And I forgot about the P90 coming first, I'll admit to that

My point really comes down to the fact that the P-90, regardless of it being an SMG is still a rifle. the vast majority of SMGs are. They have a long enough barrel to allow for riffling(longer than 5 inches) and have a buttstock.

regardless, we are arguing semantics off topic. lets redirect.

Agreed, semantics. Rifle size, SMG classification, all semantics

  • 04.06.2011 12:37 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE211

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

NATO coalition commander Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard says that NATO airstrikes have become ineffective against Gaddafi forces who are now disguising themselves as civilians or rebels.

They are now discussing change of tactics for NATO to follow to try and combat Gaddafi troops.

  • 04.06.2011 12:42 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Phoenix1330
NATO coalition commander Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard says that NATO airstrikes have become ineffective against Gaddafi forces who are now disguising themselves as civilians or rebels.

They are now discussing change of tactics for NATO to follow to try and combat Gaddafi troops.

I'm assuming change tactics means the use of ground troops?

  • 04.06.2011 12:43 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
NATO coalition commander Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard says that NATO airstrikes have become ineffective against Gaddafi forces who are now disguising themselves as civilians or rebels.

They are now discussing change of tactics for NATO to follow to try and combat Gaddafi troops.

I'm assuming change tactics means the use of ground troops?
they haven't specified.

while that would be my personal assumption, i wouldn't jump to that conclusion yet.

  • 04.06.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Gaddafi long range artillery has hit the oil fields in Misla and the Waha Oasis. These are the oil fields that are being used by the rebels as their only source of income and that filled the tanker with $100 million worth or oil yesterday. for the time being they are non-operational

  • 04.06.2011 12:50 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE214

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
NATO coalition commander Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard says that NATO airstrikes have become ineffective against Gaddafi forces who are now disguising themselves as civilians or rebels.

They are now discussing change of tactics for NATO to follow to try and combat Gaddafi troops.

I'm assuming change tactics means the use of ground troops?
they haven't specified.

while that would be my personal assumption, i wouldn't jump to that conclusion yet.
They don't have much of a choice unless they use the spec op's as their fighting force along side the rebels.
that's the other possibility i see.

There are at least 480 Special Ops troops in Libya right now.

250 JTF-2(Canada)
approx 50 SAS(UK)
40 CSOR (Canada)
20 CJIRU (Canada)
120 Task Force Arrowhead(Canada)
and an unknown number of CIA(US)

at one point there were a large number of other Special forces units there shortly after Moussa Koussa defected to England, but the other forces have had confirmation of their departure from Libyan soil.

[Edited on 04.06.2011 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2011 12:55 PM PDT
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We arnt going to send in troops. The opposition to such a tactic would be huge as you would be putting British or American or Canadian lives in danger, and we couldnt attack tripoli as it has civilian gaddafi supporters.

  • 04.06.2011 1:29 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Phoenix1330
NATO coalition commander Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard says that NATO airstrikes have become ineffective against Gaddafi forces who are now disguising themselves as civilians or rebels.

They are now discussing change of tactics for NATO to follow to try and combat Gaddafi troops.

I'm assuming change tactics means the use of ground troops?
they haven't specified.

while that would be my personal assumption, i wouldn't jump to that conclusion yet.
They don't have much of a choice unless they use the spec op's as their fighting force along side the rebels.
that's the other possibility i see.

There are at least 480 Special Ops troops in Libya right now.

250 JTF-2(Canada)
approx 50 SAS(UK)
40 CSOR (Canada)
20 CJIRU (Canada)
120 Task Force Arrowhead(Canada)
and an unknown number of CIA(US)

at one point there were a large number of other Special forces units there shortly after Moussa Koussa defected to England, but the other forces have had confirmation of their departure from Libyan soil.

I would put CIA SAD at twenty to thirty in country, max. The CIA is no were near as powerful as it is shown in the movies and is most likely deploying the teams to protect American interests and Humanitarian centers in country.
By the why where did you get the number on Task Force Arrowhead? I didn't hear of any numbers being released.

  • 04.06.2011 1:41 PM PDT

Posted by: chucky chief
We arnt going to send in troops. The opposition to such a tactic would be huge as you would be putting British or American or Canadian lives in danger, and we couldnt attack tripoli as it has civilian gaddafi supporters.


i think protecting 550,000 people in Misrata in compliance with UN Resolution 1973 is greater then public outcry

other fact of the matter is its get scrutinized for doing something or for doing nothing, i would rather it be doing something.

  • 04.06.2011 1:47 PM PDT