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Subject: Why Big Team Battle worked for Halo 2 and no other Halo game.

Halo 2 for Life!

Conclusion H2 was made for online multiplayer with lag and so could have Big team battle with lag and still be fun which no other halo could because they couldn't handle the lag halo 2 was able to do.

Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 3, and Halo Reach were never meant to handle the lag present in big team battle games Halo 2 was. It could cope with lag and still preserve the essence of the fast pace game. Other halos fell flat very badly with increased players playing all at once.

Why hasn't Bungie ever increased the BTB sizes but actually shrunk them because they know there newer games are horrible for BTB and cannot handle the stresses of lag.

Some things they did to prevent lag were:

Pistol - fast and a bit less powerful than CE (and then a lot less powerful). Increase fire rate allowed for lag to mean less for each shot. An aside they took out the scope because it's just weird to have a scope on a pistol.

BR - three burst to deal with lag and so get a least one bullet that hits (it's a semi automatic) as this will help with the fact that lag will cause you to miss often if you are not host. DMR / Pistol perform miserable with lag, H3 had faster bursts which were more close together which caused it to act as if it was one bullet not to mention it had smaller hit boxes and auto assist.

More generally - all weapons have large hit boxes and some sort of aim assist to allow for fast pace game play with any form of lag which made other Halo's look sluggish online.

In my spare time I will try to find other issues (as there are a ton) but for now that is some of the reasons Halo 2 could handle lag and other Halo's couldn't and why Big Team Battle was great in Halo 2 and not in any other Halo game.

[Edited on 03.18.2011 9:30 PM PDT]

  • 03.18.2011 9:17 PM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.

So basically, if you go into a match without lag you're playing the easiest Halo game ever.

Why do you bring up the lag argument every single time when defending this amazing but not godlike game? Everything has flaws.
A players connection isn't meant to be so -blam!- that game developers have to presume that everyone will face lag.

/on topic:
I agree that Halo 2 had the funnest BTB though...but it's not at all because of the reasons you listed up there.

  • 03.19.2011 11:19 AM PDT


Posted by: Method Man NYC
amazing but not godlike game? Everything has flaws.


Godlike, no flaws, best game ever, end of discussion.

I agree that Halo 2 had the funnest BTB though...but it's not at all because of the reasons you listed up there.

Yes, he has missed one of the biggest reasons why BTB was fun in Halo 2... THE VEHICLES! They actually worked properly in halo 2, were balanced with each other and ground combat, well placed on maps, and just plain fun to drive. Every vehicle in reach needs a TU except the mongoose, they all suck.

  • 03.19.2011 5:49 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

No need to slow down the vehicles and restrict them if everything else isn't slowed down. It would look really weird if you had slow players and super different vehicle movements. They needed to slow down everything to make it look smooth when it wasn't they pretended that there was no need for lag prevention measures and slowing it down was best. That is one of the main reasons halo reach and halo 3 and halo ce online fail very badley especially the BTB.

[Edited on 03.19.2011 6:14 PM PDT]

  • 03.19.2011 6:13 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

Dude were you ever host in Halo 2? It was easy to do everything it was part of the challenge of the game. Go with the cards you had and fight the power of host in a way lol and those located near host did better but we always would fight back even if we were not host because people that played Halo 2 alot found this dynamic to be sweet especially if your host.
Posted by: Method Man NYC
So basically, if you go into a match without lag you're playing the easiest Halo game ever.

Why do you bring up the lag argument every single time when defending this amazing but not godlike game? Everything has flaws.
A players connection isn't meant to be so -blam!- that game developers have to presume that everyone will face lag.

/on topic:
I agree that Halo 2 had the funnest BTB though...but it's not at all because of the reasons you listed up there.


P.S. recall everyone saying who is host? and all the tricks we tried to get host, If you're in lobby first you're more likely to be host or the back out strategy, Host was everything in halo 2 and always talked about it every session one ever played, I tested if I was host each time and said if I was host or not to others. and some were able to see who was host at the beginning of the game as they spawn first and one could tell by how they interacted with explosions or how they fired or how they could snipe across the map or how they picked up a weapon and if they dropped it and could beat it down and it made a noise you were host, if you knew how to cheat than you could force host. Host was everything in halo 2 as you were extremely powerful compared to everyone else. They removed this for other halos.

[Edited on 03.19.2011 11:14 PM PDT]

  • 03.19.2011 11:05 PM PDT

I had fun with btb in Halo 3.

  • 03.20.2011 6:01 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.


Posted by: Jak O Bladez
I had fun with btb in Halo 3.

  • 03.20.2011 6:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: JacobGRocks
Yeah, Hitboxing = fail. For example, a certan user from the maw who has never played Halo 2 Xbox online links to this halo 2 bash video (its much less exreme in acutial gameplay) which shows hitboxing, but it also exists in halo 3, which also has unbalanced weps and n00b armor (recon).


Posted by: JacobGRocks

Posted by: Jak O Bladez
I had fun with btb in Halo 3.

I'll agree BTB was the most fun in Halo 2, but I still always had fun with it in Halo 3. Reach...well, I don't have much fun with anything in Reach right now.

  • 03.20.2011 9:12 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.

At least reach isn't as boring as Crap Ops. I do play reach once in a while with friends and custom games and have fun. More fun the matchmaking.

  • 03.20.2011 9:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: JacobGRocks
Yeah, Hitboxing = fail. For example, a certan user from the maw who has never played Halo 2 Xbox online links to this halo 2 bash video (its much less exreme in acutial gameplay) which shows hitboxing, but it also exists in halo 3, which also has unbalanced weps and n00b armor (recon).


Posted by: JacobGRocks
At least reach isn't as boring as Crap Ops. I do play reach once in a while with friends and custom games and have fun. More fun the matchmaking.

I haven't played any Call of Duty in a while. I just can't stand it anymore. I mostly play Fire Fight in Reach. Matchmaking, in my opinion, is just terrible right now.

  • 03.20.2011 9:56 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.

Black Ops is worse then reach. Campers everywhere, small maps, unbalanced weapons, and still no PC custom maps.

  • 03.20.2011 10:16 AM PDT

If you didn't Play Halo: CE or Halo 2 MP, your opinion about Halo means nada.

CE + H2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> H3+Reach+H4

Halo 2 BTB was amazing. amazing maps and gametypes

Halo 3 BTB was decent

Reach BTB is an absolute disaster. Horrible maps and horrible gametypes. No assualt gametypes, really , really?!?!

  • 03.20.2011 10:34 AM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time


Posted by: Loubardeas22

Posted by: Method Man NYC
amazing but not godlike game? Everything has flaws.


Godlike, no flaws, best game ever, end of discussion.

Fanboy much? A bunch of glitches is a major flaw.

  • 03.20.2011 10:49 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.


Posted by: magog_rules

Posted by: Loubardeas22

Posted by: Method Man NYC
amazing but not godlike game? Everything has flaws.


Godlike, no flaws, best game ever, end of discussion.

Fanboy much? A bunch of glitches is a major flaw.

This whole form became the Halo 2 fanboy party after the shutdown. After all, they forgot about XBC/Kai and H2V.

  • 03.20.2011 11:14 AM PDT

Good players work together...and no matter how good you are, you're not physic. - blade6321

What in gods name are you TALKING ABOUT?! Why the hell would Bungie, or any other game developer ship a game without it being able to handle every single game mode on it?!


Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 3, and Halo Reach were never meant to handle the lag present in big team battle games Halo 2 was. It could cope with lag and still preserve the essence of the fast pace game. Other halos fell flat very badly with increased players playing all at once.
Reach seems pretty fast paced to me. I lag once every 20 games. Best netcode I've had the pleasure of playing with.


Why hasn't Bungie ever increased the BTB sizes but actually shrunk them because they know there newer games are horrible for BTB and cannot handle the stresses of lag.

Ever notice that anymore than 16-18 players, and you have a lagtastic multiplayer experience? Even with dedicated servers, you still have bullet delay and synchronization issues.

Pistol - fast and a bit less powerful than CE (and then a lot less powerful). Increase fire rate allowed for lag to mean less for each shot. An aside they took out the scope because it's just weird to have a scope on a pistol.
Is there ANY possibility they just wanted an average run of the mill pistol? You know, a side arm and not a main weapon? Halo 1's pistol was either a glitch or a fluke. Bungie doesn't even know after a decade.

BR - three burst to deal with lag and so get a least one bullet that hits (it's a semi automatic) as this will help with the fact that lag will cause you to miss often if you are not host. DMR / Pistol perform miserable with lag, H3 had faster bursts which were more close together which caused it to act as if it was one bullet not to mention it had smaller hit boxes and auto assist.
What are you talking about? The Halo 3's BR had a huge spread, with each bullet tracked individually. This caused more lag. Worst of all, you had the chance of the dreaded bullet-refund.

More generally - all weapons have large hit boxes and some sort of aim assist to allow for fast pace game play with any form of lag which made other Halo's look sluggish online.
Huge hitboxes and auto-aim are used to accomodate all types of connections. Hitboxes aren't increased to make a game fast paced. They're increased to make the game more user-friendly to its' player base.

Halo 3's BTB was good. It just lacked the emphasis on vehicle gameplay that made H2 great. Reach's BTB could be loads better if they just added objective and removed that damned party chat feature. If it weren't for those obstacles, I'd say Reach would have a phenomenal BTB experience. Perfect mix between vehicle and infantry gameplay.

  • 03.20.2011 1:23 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

I will read your post later but Large hit boxes do allow for smoother and faster game play. If you have smaller hit boxes you need slower gameplay so others are able to aim.
Posted by: Tacticalkilljoy
What in gods name are you TALKING ABOUT?! Why the hell would Bungie, or any other game developer ship a game without it being able to handle every single game mode on it?!


Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 3, and Halo Reach were never meant to handle the lag present in big team battle games Halo 2 was. It could cope with lag and still preserve the essence of the fast pace game. Other halos fell flat very badly with increased players playing all at once.
Reach seems pretty fast paced to me. I lag once every 20 games. Best netcode I've had the pleasure of playing with.


Why hasn't Bungie ever increased the BTB sizes but actually shrunk them because they know there newer games are horrible for BTB and cannot handle the stresses of lag.

Ever notice that anymore than 16-18 players, and you have a lagtastic multiplayer experience? Even with dedicated servers, you still have bullet delay and synchronization issues.

Pistol - fast and a bit less powerful than CE (and then a lot less powerful). Increase fire rate allowed for lag to mean less for each shot. An aside they took out the scope because it's just weird to have a scope on a pistol.
Is there ANY possibility they just wanted an average run of the mill pistol? You know, a side arm and not a main weapon? Halo 1's pistol was either a glitch or a fluke. Bungie doesn't even know after a decade.

BR - three burst to deal with lag and so get a least one bullet that hits (it's a semi automatic) as this will help with the fact that lag will cause you to miss often if you are not host. DMR / Pistol perform miserable with lag, H3 had faster bursts which were more close together which caused it to act as if it was one bullet not to mention it had smaller hit boxes and auto assist.
What are you talking about? The Halo 3's BR had a huge spread, with each bullet tracked individually. This caused more lag. Worst of all, you had the chance of the dreaded bullet-refund.

More generally - all weapons have large hit boxes and some sort of aim assist to allow for fast pace game play with any form of lag which made other Halo's look sluggish online.
Huge hitboxes and auto-aim are used to accomodate all types of connections. Hitboxes aren't increased to make a game fast paced. They're increased to make the game more user-friendly to its' player base.

Halo 3's BTB was good. It just lacked the emphasis on vehicle gameplay that made H2 great. Reach's BTB could be loads better if they just added objective and removed that damned party chat feature. If it weren't for those obstacles, I'd say Reach would have a phenomenal BTB experience. Perfect mix between vehicle and infantry gameplay.

  • 03.22.2011 9:01 PM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.



Why hasn't Bungie ever increased the BTB sizes but actually shrunk them because they know there newer games are horrible for BTB and cannot handle the stresses of lag.

Ever notice that anymore than 16-18 players, and you have a lagtastic multiplayer experience? Even with dedicated servers, you still have bullet delay and synchronization issues.

CoD4PC has no lag and 64 player. Same with Battlefield 2.

  • 03.23.2011 5:23 AM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.


Posted by: totallymassive
smaller hit boxes you need slower gameplay so others are able to aim.
slower gameplay so others are able to aim.
able to aim.
aim.


Aim? You mean that thing that requires skill and is the core of any FPS ever? You just lost all your credibility, massive. All of it.

  • 03.23.2011 11:36 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.


Posted by: Method Man NYC

Posted by: totallymassive
smaller hit boxes you need slower gameplay so others are able to aim.
slower gameplay so others are able to aim.
able to aim.
aim.


Aim? You mean that thing that requires skill and is the core of any FPS ever? You just lost all your credibility, massive. All of it.

Best post today. By the way, he just bumped a lot of dead threads. What a nub.

  • 03.23.2011 11:41 AM PDT

Good players work together...and no matter how good you are, you're not physic. - blade6321


Posted by: JacobGRocks


Why hasn't Bungie ever increased the BTB sizes but actually shrunk them because they know there newer games are horrible for BTB and cannot handle the stresses of lag.

Ever notice that anymore than 16-18 players, and you have a lagtastic multiplayer experience? Even with dedicated servers, you still have bullet delay and synchronization issues.

CoD4PC has no lag and 64 player. Same with Battlefield 2.

Ever play Bad Company 2 or Frontlines for the 360? The first has about a second of delay and the latter was almost unplayable. PC =/= Console.

  • 03.23.2011 1:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Method Man NYC
Aim? You mean that thing that requires skill and is the core of any FPS ever? You just lost all your credibility, massive. All of it.

Agreed

  • 03.23.2011 2:04 PM PDT

I like Call of Duty and Gears of War, AND Halo. Why must everyone else like only one or the other?

No, you know why BTB was so much better in Halo 2 than in 3 or Reach? The maps were so much better in Halo 2. Who doesn't have great memories of playing assault and 1 flag on Headlong, Zanzibar, Coagulation, Containment, Relic, and Terminal? The maps were perfect for some great objective games with 8 vs. 8. No, it was the maps that made the Halo 2 BTB experience what it was. Sadly, maps like Sandtrap, High Ground, Snowbound, Valhalla, Rat's Nest, and Longshore just don't compare. I haven't had enough MP experience in Reach yet, but so far I still don't think Reach maps compare either. Halo 3 does have a few good BTB maps like Avalanche, Last Resort, and Standoff, but they still aren't as good as Halo 2's.

  • 03.23.2011 7:30 PM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.

I agree. Halo 2's BTB was only good because of it's maps. Halo 3 had the best though, because Vehicle Combat was the most balanced and fun. By the way, do yourself the favor and don't play Reach BTB outside of the Map Pack Playlists. The non-DLC maps are horribly designed and Hemorrhage is a stretched out Coag with Gulch Bases and Valhalla-esque Canyon structure. Which is bad because it takes even longer to cross the map by foot due to Reach's movement speed and because Vehicles explode so fast with the uber-DMR we spawn with.


Posted by: The Elite Elite
No, you know why BTB was so much better in Halo 2 than in 3 or Reach? The maps were so much better in Halo 2. Who doesn't have great memories of playing assault and 1 flag on Headlong, Zanzibar, Coagulation, Containment, Relic, and Terminal? The maps were perfect for some great objective games with 8 vs. 8. No, it was the maps that made the Halo 2 BTB experience what it was. Sadly, maps like Sandtrap, High Ground, Snowbound, Valhalla, Rat's Nest, and Longshore just don't compare. I haven't had enough MP experience in Reach yet, but so far I still don't think Reach maps compare either. Halo 3 does have a few good BTB maps like Avalanche, Last Resort, and Standoff, but they still aren't as good as Halo 2's.

  • 03.24.2011 1:59 PM PDT
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The MAPS played an important role there too!!!

  • 03.24.2011 8:23 PM PDT

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