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Subject: Spartans>elites in strength and speed.

This is it baby.

Hold me...

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  • 03.21.2011 4:04 PM PDT
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Imagine Noble Six in Mark VI armor with Cortana.

  • 03.21.2011 4:22 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

You should probably read the Halo novels. And until you do so, your argument is invalid.

No u

  • 03.21.2011 4:34 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Noble Six's death was just for plot motives, they are not going to have the main character killed by just one enemy and it was just another of their 7 references.

Elites are stronger and faster than Spartans, an Elite Major is the equivalent of a Spartan II in terms of Strength, consider the fact that the Major is the second lowest rank of the Elite ranking system.

Hell, John had troubles fighting a Minor hand to hand on the Fall of Reach and don't you dare bring the games into this cause an Elite can kill you in two punches when playing Heroic, which is what the Books are supposed to be like.

  • 03.21.2011 4:36 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Well if we are taking averages here then they are equal in most respects, which is what they are supposed to be anyway. They share the same weight and same height almost. That really suggests that they share the same strength without any armour on. There are instances of Spartans absolutely destroying Elites in combat, and then there are instances of Spartans struggling with Elites for dear life.

Posted by: antonio iz 217
probably breaking a bone or two.
Posted by: antonio iz 217
putting them in alot of pain

You cannot claim to know either of these.

Posted by: antonio iz 217
like two or three elites had to hold him down with all their strength just to kill him.

The only one holding 6 down was the Ultra, and even then it is probably debatable because the view is blocked by that point.

Posted by: antonio iz 217
I estimate that elites can only lift 1600 pounds but spartans can lift 4000 pounds so that's that.

Do you mind sharing the basis of this estimation?

Posted by: antonio iz 217
As for speed and reflexes, elites are MUCH more flexible and reflexed than a spartan can ever imagine. Remember when you would fight elites in older halo games and they would do a sick super ninja like evade? yeah that shows how much they are better in flexibility and reflex.

John is an average Spartan in this department, but even he knew that he was faster than Elites in general. Read the part about when he first encountered Brutes on the Unyielding Heirophant. It is maybe the only thing Spartans definitely have over Elites, but you seem to have it the wrong way around.

  • 03.21.2011 4:43 PM PDT

A: When Noble Six was killed no Elite was holding him down (That I saw) it looked like the Ultra had started coming back toward him.
B: It NEVER said Spartan 3's in SPI were as strong as Elites. I've read Ghosts of Onyx, it simply said(From memory) that they managed to beat a few in hand to hand (doesn't mean they are stronger.) and get the energy swords and start tearing apart.
C: There is proof of Elites being just as strong, if not stronger then Spartans in MJOLNIR. There is NOTHING saying Spartans are stronger.
D: This is the universe forum, most people I see here (even if we disagree on certain points.) don't bring Multiplayer into the discussion unless asked about/discussion concerns it.

  • 03.21.2011 5:10 PM PDT

Error 404:
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Not really, the books said they weren't.

  • 03.21.2011 5:14 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: antonio iz 217
dinos

Posted by: antonio iz 217
BTW I love elites

Huh?

  • 03.21.2011 5:36 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

Incorrect, Spartans have the advantage of better training, and possibly a reaction-time advantage, but if so it's small. An Elite physically a match for a fully armoured Spartan, and Elite armour does not provide a strength boost.


The Fall of Reach Page 315:

The Elite recovered quickly and aimed at the Master Chief. The Master Chief jumped, grabbed it's wrist. He locked his armour's glove articulation-it became a vise clamp.
They wrestled for control, the gun pointing at the alien-then the Master Chief.
The alien was as strong as the Master Chief.
They spun and bounced off the floor, ceiling, and walls.
They were too evenly matched.


I have bolded the relevant statements, it's there in black and white, Elites are a physical match for a fully suited S II.


I estimate that elites can only lift 1600 pounds but spartans can lift 4000 pounds so that's that.


That's a nice unqualified statement you have there, care to cite any evidence to back up your opinion?

So I hope this thread educated elite lovers.

I have a PhD in Halology with Sangheiliography thanks. :)

[Edited on 03.22.2011 7:03 AM PDT]

  • 03.22.2011 7:02 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Fin5434p
and Elite armour does not provide a strength boost.

Halo: Encyclopaedia: Page 125
"The Elite combat harness is the standard armour used by the Sangheili in all Covenant conflicts. Similar to the Spartans mk VI in that it boosts speed and strength..."

  • 03.22.2011 7:25 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: anton1792
Halo: Encyclopaedia: Page 125
"The Elite combat harness is the standard armour used by the Sangheili in all Covenant conflicts. Similar to the Spartans mk VI in that it boosts speed and strength..."



Hmm, slightly iffy on that one to be honest, especially as other things in the encyclopedia are demonstrably wrong.

Consider: The Arbiter in halo 2 and 3 does not appear to be at any physical disadvantage dispite using very old armour (only noted disadvantage being it's cloaking capability, and possibly that it's shield is weaker but that may be game mechanics)
Furthermore, in Reach we see that the standard battle suit does not have gloves, and in halo 2 and 3 it appears that all that covers the Elites hands and at joints is a thin skintight undersuit.

The armour in Reach would put it's user at risk of snapping their own wrists if it was enhanced in the same way as the Spartan armour, and the other armour suits from ealier games mechanistically look much more disconnected than the suit the spartans wear if you compare the two.

*Edit: please note the armour in Reach does appear to have a much thicker undersuit holding bits of the armour together than the one seen in H2 and 3.

[Edited on 03.22.2011 7:53 AM PDT]

  • 03.22.2011 7:48 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Fin5434p
Hmm, slightly iffy on that one to be honest, especially as other things in the encyclopedia are demonstrably wrong.

Off the top of my head there are about 7 contradictions out of a 350 page book. No worse than another Halo novel. The main gripe about the Encyclopaedia was that it was not as in depth as people expected it to be for a "Definitive Guide to Halo Canon" or whatever 343 called it. More or less like an "Introduction to Halo canon".

Posted by: Fin5434p
Consider: The Arbiter in halo 2 and 3 does not appear to be at any physical disadvantage dispite using very old armour (only noted disadvantage being it's cloaking capability, and possibly that it's shield is weaker but that may be game mechanics)

Perhaps a testament to the Arbiters abilities then.

Posted by: Fin5434p
Furthermore, in Reach we see that the standard battle suit does not have gloves, and in halo 2 and 3 it appears that all that covers the Elites hands and at joints is a thin skintight undersuit.

The armour in Reach would put it's user at risk of snapping their own wrists if it was enhanced in the same way as the Spartan armour, and the other armour suits from ealier games mechanistically look much more disconnected than the suit the spartans wear if you compare the two.

*Edit: please note the armour in Reach does appear to have a much thicker undersuit holding bits of the armour together than the one seen in H2 and 3.

Halsey's Journal mentions that Covenant technology appears to have no functionality. Each of the components such as the trigger and power source are completely separate and appear to have no mechanical, electrical or electromagnetic connection to each other. It is a complete mystery as to how they operate. I would not put it past the armour systems to deceive the eye. As for the Reach armour's exposed hands, you are right, that does seem silly.

Consider the weight of Spartans and Sangheili, they are virtually identical. There cannot really be that much difference between their baseline strengths. I suspect the armour details are retcons to explain that.

  • 03.22.2011 8:31 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: keeno 111
Games>books.

Fact is cannon and cannon and chief mowed down brutes so elites couldn't be much trouble for a spartan at all.

Spartans with no armour would be a good hand to hand fight though. I'd always back a spartan though.


And again the argument is based on gameplay and not true canon evidence.

Come back if you somethin valid to say.

  • 03.22.2011 8:36 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: keeno 111
Games>books.




That would be true if there never was cut content and gameplay issues, not to mention the stuff put into games to support non hardcore fans; other than all that you would be right.


Anyways, Spartan II's are the direct equivalent to elite Majors if memory serves me right. Anything higher would be a struggle in hand to Hand combat or would be death depending on the spartan and circumstance. Note That john was overwhelmed by a (Shipmaster i belive) in the fall of reach and only won by putting the elite in an escape pod and sending him away.

  • 03.22.2011 9:47 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: anton1792
Off the top of my head there are about 7 contradictions out of a 350 page book. No worse than another Halo novel.


I must admit I was thinking of the 1.17 Teraton MAC shot and the tripod mounted machine gun with a range of 30m when I said that, but perhaps I'm just remembering unfairly, I don't own the encyclopedia and it's been a while since I looked through it.

Perhaps a testament to the Arbiters abilities then.

Possibly, there is ample evidence that he is a very skilled soldier, however Mjolnir armour doubles the strength of the wearer as well as greatly enhancing their reaction time(about 5 times?).
So if Elite armour was to do the same I'd think it would definitely put the Arbiter at a serious disadvantage during the course of the games, but it's never really mentioned or implied.

Halsey's Journal mentions that Covenant technology appears to have no functionality. Each of the components such as the trigger and power source are completely separate and appear to have no mechanical, electrical or electromagnetic connection to each other. It is a complete mystery as to how they operate. I would not put it past the armour systems to deceive the eye.

That is a distinct possibility.


Consider the weight of Spartans and Sangheili, they are virtually identical. There cannot really be that much difference between their baseline strengths.

I have to disagree on this one, comparing strength and weight is a good approximation within a species, but even if you have the same basic body structure as another species it doesn't compare well.
A fit and active adult Chimpanzee at the top end of the weight range weighs in at around 70kg and stands just over 5 feet. As a fit and active adult human I weigh in at around 88kg and stand just over 6 feet, yet the chimp is far stronger than I'll ever be, even if I started abusing steroids. And we have much more in common structure-wise with a Chimp than an Elite.


That said, all I have supporting my argument is circumstantial evidence, and you have a direct statement, so I'll concede the point.

I do think it is open to debate though, but it would be based on interpretation.

  • 03.22.2011 10:02 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Fin5434p
Incorrect, Spartans have the advantage of better training, and possibly a reaction-time advantage, but if so it's small. An Elite physically a match for a fully armoured Spartan, and Elite armour does not provide a strength boost.


The Fall of Reach Page 315:

The Elite recovered quickly and aimed at the Master Chief. The Master Chief jumped, grabbed it's wrist. He locked his armour's glove articulation-it became a vise clamp.
They wrestled for control, the gun pointing at the alien-then the Master Chief.
The alien was as strong as the Master Chief.
They spun and bounced off the floor, ceiling, and walls.
They were too evenly matched.


I have bolded the relevant statements, it's there in black and white, Elites are a physical match for a fully suited S II.


I estimate that elites can only lift 1600 pounds but spartans can lift 4000 pounds so that's that.


That's a nice unqualified statement you have there, care to cite any evidence to back up your opinion?

So I hope this thread educated elite lovers.

I have a PhD in Halology with Sangheiliography thanks. :)

Maybe it was a particularly strong Elite.

  • 03.22.2011 10:07 AM PDT


Posted by: keeno 111
Games>books.

Fact is cannon and cannon and chief mowed down brutes so elites couldn't be much trouble for a spartan at all.

Spartans with no armour would be a good hand to hand fight though. I'd always back a spartan though.


A: So because he could kill them with weapons, that means he can win without them? Failed logic.
B: A Spartan without armor facing an Elite without armor is at a severe disadvantage.

As there is nothing stated in the games which contradicts the book's depiction of Elite strength, we can't truly bring that in.

  • 03.22.2011 10:49 AM PDT
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I always assumed they were equal. Unless you can give me a battle where a unarmoued Spartan and Elite go hand to hand in combat, nothing can be derived from this.

  • 03.22.2011 11:09 AM PDT

you can see that it took more a few high rank elites to defeat noble 6 when he was weaponless, helmetless and badly hurt
probably jorge would beat something like 10 elites in a weaponless fight

  • 03.22.2011 12:48 PM PDT

unarmored elite wins
armored, but weaponless, i think even S3 in SPI armour would beat an elite

  • 03.22.2011 12:59 PM PDT


Posted by: zepedrodel
you can see that it took more a few high rank elites to defeat noble 6 when he was weaponless, helmetless and badly hurt
probably jorge would beat something like 10 elites in a weaponless fight


Um, when Six was on the ground the only reason it 'took' more then one was because Six smacked them away before they could to a finishing blow.

  • 03.22.2011 1:02 PM PDT

I wuld like to point out that we can;t say that the elite on gamma station was the typical elite... For all we know, He could of been above average strength.

  • 03.22.2011 1:06 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: jonesy90000
I wuld like to point out that we can;t say that the elite on gamma station was the typical elite... For all we know, He could of been above average strength.



For all we know those other elites that were killed by spartans are below average

  • 03.22.2011 1:26 PM PDT

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