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Subject: Are 343i Our Only Hope?

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Will 343i ever develop a Halo game that concentrates more on the fascinating fiction? Bungie's completely failure to produce a decent campaign for Reach has made me loose any hope that they are going to be developing games with good writing. They have become infamous for undeveloped characters, pointless objectives, and idiotic retcons that were superfluous.

Perhaps 343i will develop an expansion pack or bonus disc for Reach that attempts to remedy the campaign using Reach's engine? It's clear with the Defiant Map Pack that 343i are far more conscious of the canon than Bungie. Condemned is Gamma Station, and Highlands is where Red Team's pelican crashed.

I surely hope so, because Halo's fiction is dying, and it seems 343i has the resources and dedication to revive it.

  • 03.24.2011 12:41 PM PDT
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Uh, no? Obi Wan is our only hope, duh.

----------

On topic, I still think that Reach was more than a decent campaign. The only people I see complaining about it are the people who get caught up on the little things. I don't think Halo's Fiction is dying at all; rather it's progressing past things that would have hindered it. Do keep in mind that the books were written TEN years ago, and before Halo 2 was even released. Plus, can you find how the games conflict? I would bet that there are canonical conflicts in every game-based book series; at least Halo is trying to marry the two as best as possible.

  • 03.24.2011 12:52 PM PDT

Du hast mich.


Posted by: SoldierOfAthena
Uh, no? Obi Wan is our only hope, duh.

----------

On topic, I still think that Reach was more than a decent campaign. The only people I see complaining about it are the people who get caught up on the little things. I don't think Halo's Fiction is dying at all; rather it's progressing past things that would have hindered it. Do keep in mind that the books were written TEN years ago, and before Halo 2 was even released. Plus, can you find how the games conflict? I would bet that there are canonical conflicts in every game-based book series; at least Halo is trying to marry the two as best as possible.


I hope 343 fixes the games multiplayer glitches and other issues.

[Edited on 03.24.2011 1:03 PM PDT]

  • 03.24.2011 1:02 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*

  • 03.24.2011 1:06 PM PDT

Mass Effect is my new Halo. The game universe that I absorb canonical information about, theorise over, pour over every last fictional detail. Halo has just lost its magic.

If a game were created by 343i set in ancient times, I would be interested. Perhaps in the human-Forerunner war. It would be very difficult to explain such a grandiose part of the lore to the average gamer though (most people I know who play Halo don't even know what the Forerunners are), so it's doubtful.

  • 03.24.2011 1:14 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*


Yeah, seriously...

Halo's fiction has never really taken a blow.

Sure there is the uncertainty surrounding what really happened on Reach because of the game, but all those events are still contained within the events surrounding Reach while everything else is still intact.

Oh not to mention that with the exception of Halo 2 and (barely) ODST, all the other Halo games have had rather shallow story telling. I mean let's not kid ourselves here. I'd argue that if it wasn't for the expanded canon to help invest ourselves in the universe in the first place, Halo would be a bit of a throwaway story.

I mean look at Halo CE. It can be summed up as "Some group of space marines retreating from a doomed planet land on some ring world. They try to stave off some alien something menace that wants to kill them for some unspecified religious reason. Oh hey there are space zombies sealed on the ring by some other alien race...but it's alright because a faceless emotionless and completely boring human super soldier killed everything. The end."

If it weren't for The Fall of Reach novel I suspect that there wouldn't be any reason to care about Halo CE's story at all because of how generic everything was. Sure the Flood was a bit of a twist, but for a new IP there wasn't anything that really rung out as original and apart of the sci-fi crowd. I mean you've got a faceless genocidal group of aliens, space zombies, and for all intents and purposes the only characters on your side is a stereotypical by the book captain and your classic sci-fi tough as nails loves the marine corps marine. Least there's Cortana and Sparks to add some tension and commentary to the mix. Good thing though that it revolutionized console fps gameplay.

Edit: To sum up, the Halo games have never truly been a source of grand fictional elements to the Halo Universe. Ironically enough it's the expanded universe that seems to be the main focus of fiction whereas the games act as a bit of an augment to experiencing that fiction first hand.

Compared to Mass Effect, the Halo games aren't much. Now Mass Effect is a grand example of a modern sci-fi game of how to really get that feeling of being a part of a unique game universe that has existed long before you stepped into the shoes of the protagonist without needing to rely on expanded material. In that regard its expanded universe content serves to augment the feel of the actual games rather than Halo which seems to do the opposite. Now of course given that it's an RPG it has the time to do that versus an fps like Halo, but still it's not much of an excuse when fps games like Half-Life exist.

Anyone implying that Halo games have had such a deep story on their own without the expanded universe is just kidding themselves.

[Edited on 03.24.2011 1:23 PM PDT]

  • 03.24.2011 1:16 PM PDT

I didn't see Reach's campaign as bad...

  • 03.24.2011 1:27 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*


Yeah, seriously...

Halo's fiction has never really taken a blow.

Sure there is the uncertainty surrounding what really happened on Reach because of the game, but all those events are still contained within the events surrounding Reach while everything else is still intact.

Oh not to mention that with the exception of Halo 2 and (barely) ODST, all the other Halo games have had rather shallow story telling. I mean let's not kid ourselves here. I'd argue that if it wasn't for the expanded canon to help invest ourselves in the universe in the first place, Halo would be a bit of a throwaway story.

I mean look at Halo CE. It can be summed up as "Some group of space marines retreating from a doomed planet land on some ring world. They try to stave off some alien something menace that wants to kill them for some unspecified religious reason. Oh hey there are space zombies sealed on the ring by some other alien race...but it's alright because a faceless emotionless and completely boring human super soldier killed everything. The end."

If it weren't for The Fall of Reach novel I suspect that there wouldn't be any reason to care about Halo CE's story at all because of how generic everything was. Sure the Flood was a bit of a twist, but for a new IP there wasn't anything that really rung out as original and apart of the sci-fi crowd. I mean you've got a faceless genocidal group of aliens, space zombies, and for all intents and purposes the only characters on your side is a stereotypical by the book captain and your classic sci-fi tough as nails loves the marine corps marine. Least there's Cortana and Sparks to add some tension and commentary to the mix. Good thing though that it revolutionized console fps gameplay.

Edit: To sum up, the Halo games have never truly been a source of grand fictional elements to the Halo Universe. Ironically enough it's the expanded universe that seems to be the main focus of fiction whereas the games act as a bit of an augment to experiencing that fiction first hand.

Compared to Mass Effect, the Halo games aren't much. Now Mass Effect is a grand example of a modern sci-fi game of how to really get that feeling of being a part of a unique game universe that has existed long before you stepped into the shoes of the protagonist without needing to rely on expanded material. In that regard its expanded universe content serves to augment the feel of the actual games rather than Halo which seems to do the opposite. Now of course given that it's an RPG it has the time to do that versus an fps like Halo, but still it's not much of an excuse when fps games like Half-Life exist.

Anyone implying that Halo games have had such a deep story on their own without the expanded universe is just kidding themselves.

You sir, have read my mind. You deserve a cookie.

  • 03.24.2011 1:31 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

The "fanbase" is what is killing this franchise. Halo is geared towards the wrong folk for it to remain as deep and inspirational as it was at its peak around Halo 2.

I see comment threads on Youtube and countless gaming boards like CVG, Gamefaqs, IGN, Kotaku etc filled with plebeian retards who continuously slate the developers now for "milking the franchise" because to them there is "nothing left in the story". For them, Multiplayer is the only thing Halo is and just because the multiplayer is drying up, (Which is expected. I mean come on, how much innovation can you seriously have with it? It hardly ever changes fundamentally.) it suddenly means that Halo is dead and being milked. Not a thought goes to the other half of the game, and if it does then it is based on fallacy and ignorance.

Frankie's latest interview does not fill me with confidence to be honest:

"I'll be watching that stuff, you have to take it seriously because your core fans are also the most educated. But you also have to remember that probably 75% of the audience doesn't know who makes the games - to them it's like 'Xbox makes the games'. Those are a bulk of the audience that you also have to pay close, careful and loving attention to."
Aye, right. Did you know that 64.5765% of statistical percentages are made up on the spot Frankie? Usually for dramatic effect. I wonder what he is trying to convey here. I kind of get the impression that he is saying "We must pay more attention to these people first". Well that is the percentage represented by those that occupy the gaming board websites. (Anybody who does not know who it was who made the games probably knows nothing about the extended universe either to be honest).

I am not slating 343 Industries here. I have always defended them from opinionated fools who bring forward feelings and no actual contradictions to say that their work spoils the fiction "as a matter of fact". Being a business, they have to invest in the most promising groups, and it looks like we are just not large enough. The non-game media will be fine as it is geared especially towards fans like us, but I just doubt that we will ever see a Halo 2 again.

  • 03.24.2011 1:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wolverfrog
Perhaps in the human-Forerunner war.


Mind. Blown.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Anyone implying that Halo games have had such a deep story on their own without the expanded universe is just kidding themselves.


Just to be clear, that's not what I personally was implying. I think the books are just as much relevant to canon as the games, but that any inconsistencies found between the books and games should be weighed as "is this really important?" Does it matter if The Fall of Reach said there were 300 Covenant ships and Halo: Reach said there were 250? (EXAMPLE)

  • 03.24.2011 1:53 PM PDT

I think Frankie meant that they will try to make games which caters to both group, but make sure the biggest one doesn't get lost or get what they want. My bet is that they are principally talking about multiplayer there.


Posted by: SoldierOfAthena
Does it matter if The Fall of Reach said there were 300 Covenant ships and Halo: Reach said there were 250? (EXAMPLE)


No matter the size, I think it just sucks if the universe can't be 100% consistent. It's like, you get from one bit of fiction to the other, and you see a contradiction. How do you react? Even if it's small, it's still a detail that was told to you, because there's relevance in telling it. Then why not put as much importance in making sure everything is coherent, if you think everything you say is relevant? How can it stay relevant if it's not consistent? It's as if you learn something in your Biology class, and then your Chemistry teachers says the contrary to support one of his points.

[Edited on 03.24.2011 2:00 PM PDT]

  • 03.24.2011 1:56 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*


Anyone implying that Halo games have had such a deep story on their own without the expanded universe is just kidding themselves.


Disregarding Halo 2, the terminals, the Assembly and the numerous religious symbols, yeah, you're right.

Though I seriously have to disagree about the whole Mass Effect thing. It can be considered just as generic as any other sci-fi. Really sci-fi isn't all that original anymore, and Mass Effect especially is simply too shallow in story for me to really get into it. In fact, Halo is the only sci-fi I can get into.

For me, sci-fi doesn't usually do it for me, I usually find it bland and unispired rehashes of previous stories and premises, but Halo is an odd exception. Probably because it goes beyond just being another space adventure and goes deep in morals and human nature backed by a story the likes of which I've never seen.

  • 03.24.2011 2:01 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Anyone implying that Halo games have had such a deep story on their own without the expanded universe is just kidding themselves.


Disregarding Halo 2, the terminals, the Assembly and the numerous religious symbols, yeah, you're right.


I was always surprised on how people were saying Halo 2 had no story. I thought we probably didn't play the same game.

Though I seriously have to disagree about the whole Mass Effect thing. It can be considered just as generic as any other sci-fi. Really sci-fi isn't all that original anymore, and Mass Effect especially is simply too shallow in story for me to really get into it. In fact, Halo is the only sci-fi I can get into.

Same here. Well, ME1's main plot was quite unique, but otherwise Bioware are just recycling clichés all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I like the universe, but it's mainly the aesthetics that doesn't make the games feel as generic as they are.

For me, sci-fi doesn't usually do it for me, I usually find it bland and unispired rehashes of previous stories and premises, but Halo is an odd exception. Probably because it goes beyond just being another space adventure and goes deep in morals and human nature backed by a story the likes of which I've never seen.

Agreed again. And anyway, if you look at its biggest inspirations, it's all aesthetics. The Halo rings themselves, the Colonial Marines look for the UNSC. Yes, it's a war between aliens and humans, but there's far more to it. I loved how Evolutions showed a much uglier side of the Spartan program and the brutality of the Brutes for example.

  • 03.24.2011 2:13 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*

Thanks to 343.

  • 03.24.2011 2:41 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog
Mass Effect is my new Halo. The game universe that I absorb canonical information about, theorise over, pour over every last fictional detail. Halo has just lost its magic.

If a game were created by 343i set in ancient times, I would be interested. Perhaps in the human-Forerunner war. It would be very difficult to explain such a grandiose part of the lore to the average gamer though (most people I know who play Halo don't even know what the Forerunners are), so it's doubtful.
Pretty much this but drop Mass Effect for Warhammer 40000.
Quite honestly 40k has some of the best stories in sci-fi ever. The Horus Heresy is a glowing example of this. Everyone knows about it, but only vague details. 16 books latter you get one of the biggest, tight knit and absolutely astounding series out there. The best part is that there is still so much left untouched, so many stories that have not been told and that is why I think it is amazing.

P.S. Battlefleet Gothic>Citadel Fleet

Also, if 343i can't bother to fix the fact that in TFoR reissue (that was supposed to correct errors) it states Reach fell in 2542 then forgive me if my confidence is not the highest.

[Edited on 03.24.2011 2:48 PM PDT]

  • 03.24.2011 2:45 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

This is, sort of, reassuring.

Notice, "Frank O'Connor said he doesn't think the Halo series needs to be taken in a radical new direction... it just needs to go "deeper".

Which, seems to me, like they're going to focus more on the lore and whatnot.

  • 03.24.2011 3:06 PM PDT

// Chapter
// My PC


2/15/12: Francisco Porras, I'll miss you. Rest in Peace.

It's 'Is 343i' not 'Are 343i', thought I'd point it out, bad English isn't fun.

  • 03.24.2011 3:13 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

After the release of Legends I thought that the Halo canon was doomed to die a very profitable death. Fortunately it seems that 343i got the message and started to put out more quality stuff like Legends and Cryptum.

Bottom line, 343i has shown that it cares for canon (granted not in anything nearly as large as a game, in that area they are still untested), and Reach shows that our beloved Bungie no longer seems to.

  • 03.24.2011 3:16 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!

Honestly it's the books that keep me interested in Halo, not the games, so if we go by Cryptum we're in a for a good ride.

Hopefully the future games will be good as well.

  • 03.24.2011 3:18 PM PDT

If I remember right, most critics said that Reach had the best campaign of any Halo game.

Perhaps Bungie isn't as worried about the canon because, well, they created Halo. So they can do whatever they want with it.

  • 03.24.2011 3:28 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*

Thanks to 343.


-.-

What is it with people worshiping the very ground that 343 walks? They're not doing anything different than Bungie has done over the past 10 years. And 343 certainly hasn't done anything to justify all this worship, they haven't made a game yet, all they've done is hired some writers to write a couple books, and even that's not worshiping them for, as whatever information is in the books would have come from the Halo Story Bible, and seeing as 343 hasn't had it very long I highly doubt that most of the information for the new books would have been put in HSB by 343.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing 343 or anything, I think they will do quite well and I trust them completely with Halo's story as they have Frank O'Connor as the head of the company, however I don't think they've done anything to inspire such radical devotion yet. Honestly I think this going to be the same sort of situation as with Reach, people are going to hype it up, and then when 343 makes some small mistake people are going to give them the same treatment they're giving Bungie right now.

So no, I don't think 343 are our only hope, nor do I think Halo's story has sucked at all under Bungie's hands. I view 343 and Bungie the same way. Though I might be a little more partial to Bungie as they're the creators of Halo in the first place. 343 certainly hasn't done anything yet to hailed as the "Saviors of the Halo story".

Ok, done ranting now XD

  • 03.24.2011 3:29 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*

Thanks to 343.


-.-

What is it with people worshiping the very ground that 343 walks? They're not doing anything different than Bungie has done over the past 10 years. And 343 certainly hasn't done anything to justify all this worship, they haven't made a game yet, all they've done is hired some writers to write a couple books, and even that's not worshiping them for, as whatever information is in the books would have come from the Halo Story Bible, and seeing as 343 hasn't had it very long I highly doubt that most of the information for the new books would have been put in HSB by 343.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing 343 or anything, I think they will do quite well and I trust them completely with Halo's story as they have Frank O'Connor as the head of the company, however I don't think they've done anything to inspire such radical devotion yet. Honestly I think this going to be the same sort of situation as with Reach, people are going to hype it up, and then when 343 makes some small mistake people are going to give them the same treatment they're giving Bungie right now.

So no, I don't think 343 are our only hope, nor do I think Halo's story has sucked at all under Bungie's hands. I view 343 and Bungie the same way. Though I might be a little more partial to Bungie as they're the creators of Halo in the first place. 343 certainly hasn't done anything yet to hailed as the "Saviors of the Halo story".

Ok, done ranting now XD

Cryptum and Evulotions did not come from Bungie.

  • 03.24.2011 3:37 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Potomo
Honestly it's the books that keep me interested in Halo

Same here. Halo 3's, ODST's, and Halo Wars campaign were awesome, but after awhile I'd probably move on to something else.

  • 03.24.2011 3:38 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Halo fiction ain't dying
*looks at cryptum,evoltuions,.....*

Thanks to 343.


-.-

What is it with people worshiping the very ground that 343 walks? They're not doing anything different than Bungie has done over the past 10 years. And 343 certainly hasn't done anything to justify all this worship, they haven't made a game yet, all they've done is hired some writers to write a couple books, and even that's not worshiping them for, as whatever information is in the books would have come from the Halo Story Bible, and seeing as 343 hasn't had it very long I highly doubt that most of the information for the new books would have been put in HSB by 343.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing 343 or anything, I think they will do quite well and I trust them completely with Halo's story as they have Frank O'Connor as the head of the company, however I don't think they've done anything to inspire such radical devotion yet. Honestly I think this going to be the same sort of situation as with Reach, people are going to hype it up, and then when 343 makes some small mistake people are going to give them the same treatment they're giving Bungie right now.

So no, I don't think 343 are our only hope, nor do I think Halo's story has sucked at all under Bungie's hands. I view 343 and Bungie the same way. Though I might be a little more partial to Bungie as they're the creators of Halo in the first place. 343 certainly hasn't done anything yet to hailed as the "Saviors of the Halo story".

Ok, done ranting now XD

Cryptum and Evulotions did not come from Bungie.


No, but the information used to make them would have, 343 has not had the HSB long enough to really add much of their own information to it yet. They would have been exactly the same if it had been Bungie holding the HSB as 343.

And my point still stands. 343 has not done anything yet to deserve all the adoration they're getting, me? I'm going to wait until their first game.

  • 03.24.2011 3:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Reach shows that our beloved Bungie no longer seems to.

All I saw was Bungie trying to give Reach a more fitting showing than TFoR. TFoR's description of the Battle of Reach felt like a rush job.

  • 03.24.2011 4:35 PM PDT

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