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Subject: CE is limited to slow pace. Restrictions not present in Halo 2.

Halo 2 for Life!

If I get people that enjoy CE to just think about a Halo CE remake as needing a high level of campaign (more levels), story (more cut scenes and plot), and campaign features (online co-op) upgrades and to leave Halo 2 for the MP remake that would be good lol.

CE is a great game but not for the same reasons Halo 2 was and I want to say this so remakes can be created in a way that makes each game better and make their fans happier. I can only do so much but possibly a community that has thought about this (like CE might) can do alot to get the right improvements for each game if it even occurs or not.

Posted by: BOB570
This thread reminds me of something that JacobG would post in the Halo 2 forum. At least you did say one good thing about CE though.

Don't sink down to JacobG's level.


[Edited on 03.26.2011 10:25 PM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 10:22 PM PDT

It's sounds like you played 2 first then moved to CE. The button glitches in 2 are just that, glitches. I first played CE, it shouldn't be changed at all. You move slow and weapons work. It's meant to be a medium paced shooter and it should stay that way. They sped up 2 and it worked great for online multiplayer. IF they remake either, nothing should change.

  • 03.27.2011 7:10 AM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.


Posted by: BOB570
This thread reminds me of something that JacobG would post in the Halo 2 forum. At least you did say one good thing about CE though.

Don't sink down to JacobG's level.


His posts evoke flame wars, but they still contain information and evidence as to why Halo 2's Multiplayer was unbalanced and not-competitive as hell.

Posted by: totallymassive

...Leave this forum. Go hail Halo 2 somewhere else, the Reach forum is full of tryhards who might agree with you. Stop defending every single aspect of it; everyone agrees that H2 was fun but you're really pushing it.

[Edited on 03.27.2011 10:24 AM PDT]

  • 03.27.2011 10:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: JacobGRocks
Yeah, Hitboxing = fail. For example, a certan user from the maw who has never played Halo 2 Xbox online links to this halo 2 bash video (its much less exreme in acutial gameplay) which shows hitboxing, but it also exists in halo 3, which also has unbalanced weps and n00b armor (recon).


Posted by: Method Man NYC

Posted by: BOB570
This thread reminds me of something that JacobG would post in the Halo 2 forum. At least you did say one good thing about CE though.

Don't sink down to JacobG's level.


His posts evoke flame wars, but they still contain information and evidence as to why Halo 2's Multiplayer was unbalanced and not-competitive as hell.

Posted by: totallymassive

...Leave this forum. Go hail Halo 2 somewhere else, the Reach forum is full of tryhards who might agree with you. Stop defending every single aspect of it; everyone agrees that H2 was fun but you're really pushing it.

Posting the "Halo 2 is Noobified" video in every thread is hardly something I'd call evidence. I agree with the second part, though.

  • 03.27.2011 5:47 PM PDT

Another thing I've noticed between the two games is that Halo 2 is much more shallow. It is based almost exclusively around headshots and power weapons. Both of there are instant or near-instant kills, so health bars are unnecessary.

The health bar allowed the player to continue to fight even without shields, as not every shot from every weapon used would land on your head.

  • 03.27.2011 6:08 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

I played CE first and I played it alot, including MP.
Posted by: redness7
It's sounds like you played 2 first then moved to CE. The button glitches in 2 are just that, glitches. I first played CE, it shouldn't be changed at all. You move slow and weapons work. It's meant to be a medium paced shooter and it should stay that way. They sped up 2 and it worked great for online multiplayer. IF they remake either, nothing should change.

  • 03.27.2011 8:21 PM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.


Posted by: chickenlittle
Another thing I've noticed between the two games is that Halo 2 is much more shallow. It is based almost exclusively around headshots and power weapons. Both of there are instant or near-instant kills, so health bars are unnecessary.

The health bar allowed the player to continue to fight even without shields, as not every shot from every weapon used would land on your head.


That's one of the reasons I prefer Reach over Halo 2/3, if only Vehicles and maps would be better. (Needs some other tweaking too although not as much)

  • 03.28.2011 8:33 AM PDT

Halo 2 worst in the series? Are you kidding me? Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach are the worst in the series.

  • 03.28.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Posted by: BURNANATORBOS
Halo 2 worst in the series? Are you kidding me? Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach are the worst in the series.
See, this is the kind of stupidity that I find annoying. Somebody says something, presents a valid argument for each case, then some spoiled kid comes in and spouts something like this without any supporting evidence.

I can provide plenty of reason why what you just said is flat-out wrong. Halo 2 has a monotonous campaign, despite its scale. The only environment feeling is in the flood-infested areas. The combat was made almost exclusively headshot-oriented, as just about nothing else is effective. Multiplayer is literally about glitching, super-bouncing, power weapons, and whoever has more players. Halo 3 is remarkably similar.

ODST was a new idea. You aren't an invincible super-soldier, but nor are you helpless. It showed us the fall of a city, and provided excellent ambience and environments to do so.

Reach was a slight reversion back to the old ways. Campaign was terrible and I won't forgive them for what they did with canon, but they at least brought some depth back with the health bar. Unfortunately, it's still based around headshots and power weapons, but in many situations they aren't necessary to win.

  • 03.28.2011 1:38 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

Lets not fight over which is worse...

Let me just say that CE and Halo 2 are a tie for me in overall quality.

But H2 rules CE in MP and MM (CE didn't have MM so it isn't really that fair but it is true H2's MM ruled CE's lack of MM).

And CE rules H2 in story by far (recall H2's ending... bad lol) and to me has slightly better campaign aspects (mostly due to the perfect story that captured my imagination and all fit together correctly but surprisingly which H2 lacked quite a bit).
Posted by: BURNANATORBOS
Halo 2 worst in the series? Are you kidding me? Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach are the worst in the series.

  • 03.28.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: totallymassive

But H2 rules CE in MP.


Perhaps only in a debate of preference, but when you get down to brass tacks Halo 2's popularity was tied directly into simplicity. Halo 2 took the demanding skill curve (which turned people off to the game mind you) and flattend it dramatically. The introduction of the BR, the removal of fall damage, and the laughably glitchy gameplay took a game that required multidimensional skill and ability (CE) and made it about excelling at two or three things (2).

Now does this make either one a better game? From a preferencial standpoint, that is entirely sujbective, however if your measureing "better" in terms of game design, Halo 2 was a large step back. It's easy to understand why it was done, simplicity plus online MP = massive attraction to the uninitiated and those that had difficulty with CE.

CE was a game where if you were legitimately good, you were feared and people reacted as such. Tactics ruled, and needed to be shifted on the fly depending on what your opponent was doing and what map you were on. Halo 2 was all about spawn camping/trapping, camping firing lanes, glitch manipulation, and XBL connection speeds. I have a difficult time acknowledging that as the better game, though that doesn't mean it wasn't fun in it's own right.

  • 03.28.2011 3:41 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

I found with the glitchs, that halo 2 was the most complex and the hardest to master as it took skill to master these fast techniques well maintaining control.

Jumping in Halo 2 was fun, with no fall damage and even with it.

Feared? I played CE MP. It was ugg, um, bad plus boring...

shift to what your opponent is doing.. (getting pistol and shooting at you... almost 100% of the time).

Trapping and spawn killing, did happen sometimes in one on one but in MM and BTB it never happened or extremely rarley.

Connection speeds caused lag but not like other halo's it just took more skill to find out the level lag (or changing lag) and adjusting to it (something that actually takes skill and makes every match different, unless your host every game).

Hard to tell that H2 had better MP and MM... It is very easy. CE online games I've watched on youtube aren't even watchible it's so laggy, and no lag adjust it's a frustrating game that basically no one ever played compared to halo 2.
Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: totallymassive

But H2 rules CE in MP.


Perhaps only in a debate of preference, but when you get down to brass tacks Halo 2's popularity was tied directly into simplicity. Halo 2 took the demanding skill curve (which turned people off to the game mind you) and flattend it dramatically. The introduction of the BR, the removal of fall damage, and the laughably glitchy gameplay took a game that required multidimensional skill and ability (CE) and made it about excelling at two or three things (2).

Now does this make either one a better game? From a preferencial standpoint, that is entirely sujbective, however if your measureing "better" in terms of game design, Halo 2 was a large step back. It's easy to understand why it was done, simplicity plus online MP = massive attraction to the uninitiated and those that had difficulty with CE.

CE was a game where if you were legitimately good, you were feared and people reacted as such. Tactics ruled, and needed to be shifted on the fly depending on what your opponent was doing and what map you were on. Halo 2 was all about spawn camping/trapping, camping firing lanes, glitch manipulation, and XBL connection speeds. I have a difficult time acknowledging that as the better game, though that doesn't mean it wasn't fun in it's own right.

  • 03.28.2011 9:57 PM PDT

Seeing as my last post was just my ranting that CE was better i'm going to adress your points individualy in a civil manner.

Posted by: totallymassive
Button combos made reload and firing weapons in H2 way faster. The movement speeds were way faster, either by sword lunging or by person launching, by superbouncing, or normal movement (plus jumping).


So it was better because you could glitch? Glitches are just that:Glitches. They were mistakes that were made in developement and can't be used in a legitamate argument because they are illigitamate in themselves.

It was difficult to do things the fast way in halo 2 the whole game so you had pick and choose when you did them (as you lose some level of control when doing button glitches).

Which is the point behind CE's slower playstyle. It's totally balanced. You weren't able to just run crazy and be a tank without being able to time out your reloads and start firing at the perfect moments. If you started firing first but missed more shots then the other person, you had to be able to move into cover, reload, move out of cover and start firing at the perfect moments to stand a chance.

CE = slow all around all the time no way to move or shoot, or reload faster. It was slow and there was no choice in the matter even if you were willing to give up some control for speed like in halo 2.

Seee previous paragraph I typed.


halo 2 = best MP ever in a video game ever.
halo ce = best story ever in a video game ever.

Ce definately had the best campaign but the multiplayer was far from inferior to 2's. It was on-par at least only losing in the fact that it lacked an online mm.

[Edited on 03.28.2011 10:15 PM PDT]

  • 03.28.2011 10:14 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

Not to mention Halo 2 had the most weapons if one counts glitches making one weapon into 2 or 3 weapons (as it's used different, speed for control), plasma pistol can be used 2 different ways, even grande throwing could be changed with glitching to launch two at a time, duals made many many more weapons (a mix of different weapons). Not to mention the huge inventory of modded weapons.

The diversity of weapons was extreme yet there was only a few. It was of a brilliant design that no other halo had.

a ce pistol is just that a pistol, a br in halo 2 was 5 weapons (or more in one),BXR,BXB,double shot,tripple shot, quad shot. If you do them in different combinations that it's almost endless what someone can do in halo2 and knowing what others will do is almost impossible, and you have to approch each person differently not knowing there abilities to use the weapons.

  • 03.28.2011 10:26 PM PDT


Posted by: totallymassive
Not to mention Halo 2 had the most weapons if one counts glitches making one weapon into 2 or 3 weapons (as it's used different, speed for control), plasma pistol can be used 2 different ways, even grande throwing could be changed with glitching to launch two at a time, duals made many many more weapons (a mix of different weapons). Not to mention the huge inventory of modded weapons.
A huge inventory means nothing when only a fraction of them are ever used. In my experience, only the Sword, Shotgun, Sniper, Rockets, and BR were ever used. That means no carbine, no plasma pistol, no plasma rifle, no brute plasma rifle, no sentinel beam, no brute shot, no needler, no SMG, no pistol. More than half the weapon list is utterly useless in multiplayer.

The diversity of weapons was extreme yet there was only a few. It was of a brilliant design that no other halo had. Halo 3 had ever more diversity in its weapons. Except more of them were effective, just unused. If you want to talk diversity, CE still reigns supreme here. Each and every weapon had its own niche, and was best in that niche.

a ce pistol is just that a pistol, a br in halo 2 was 5 weapons (or more in one),BXR,BXB,double shot,tripple shot, quad shot. If you do them in different combinations that it's almost endless what someone can do in halo2 and knowing what others will do is almost impossible, and you have to approch each person differently not knowing there abilities to use the weapons. That's just the thing. In CE, you have to use what you have to outfight somebody to win. In Halo 2, it was about being better at abusing glitches and flaws in the game.

  • 03.29.2011 8:55 AM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle

Posted by: totallymassive
Not to mention Halo 2 had the most weapons if one counts glitches making one weapon into 2 or 3 weapons (as it's used different, speed for control), plasma pistol can be used 2 different ways, even grande throwing could be changed with glitching to launch two at a time, duals made many many more weapons (a mix of different weapons). Not to mention the huge inventory of modded weapons.
A huge inventory means nothing when only a fraction of them are ever used. In my experience, only the Sword, Shotgun, Sniper, Rockets, and BR were ever used. That means no carbine, no plasma pistol, no plasma rifle, no brute plasma rifle, no sentinel beam, no brute shot, no needler, no SMG, no pistol. More than half the weapon list is utterly useless in multiplayer.

The diversity of weapons was extreme yet there was only a few. It was of a brilliant design that no other halo had. Halo 3 had ever more diversity in its weapons. Except more of them were effective, just unused. If you want to talk diversity, CE still reigns supreme here. Each and every weapon had its own niche, and was best in that niche.

a ce pistol is just that a pistol, a br in halo 2 was 5 weapons (or more in one),BXR,BXB,double shot,tripple shot, quad shot. If you do them in different combinations that it's almost endless what someone can do in halo2 and knowing what others will do is almost impossible, and you have to approch each person differently not knowing there abilities to use the weapons. That's just the thing. In CE, you have to use what you have to outfight somebody to win. In Halo 2, it was about being better at abusing glitches and flaws in the game.


Not to mention on your first point that even though there are more weapons, most of them are just duplicates of weapons that we already have or are weapons put in to replace weapons that didn't need replacing(BR = Carbine, BR = CE pistol, Sword = op shotgun, Brute PR = PR on steriods, etc)

Aside from that, chicken said everything else I would've said.

  • 03.29.2011 12:32 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: totallymassive
I found with the glitchs, that halo 2 was the most complex and the hardest to master as it took skill to master these fast techniques well maintaining control.


No personal offense intended, but nothing was difficult about those glitches. If they took any degree of difficulty to master, they would not have been so popular.

Jumping in Halo 2 was fun, with no fall damage and even with it.

Didn't say it wasn't fun, just said that the removal of fall damage was a bad idea. Removal fall damage was just another feature that removed "thought" from general gameplay. If you can move without consequence, it makes things WAY to easy.

Feared? I played CE MP. It was ugg, um, bad plus boring...

Again, no personal offense intended, but you must have never played with anyone really good, or better than yourself. In CE you knew who the power players were (provided they were present), and people would often gang up on them or give them a wide berth. Something I rarely ever noticed in Halo2 MP whether on XBL or LAN.

shift to what your opponent is doing.. (getting pistol and shooting at you... almost 100% of the time).

If this is all you ever saw then your competition wasn't very diverse. One thing I loved the most about CE is that every weapon had actual utility, it was the most balanced sandbox ever offered in a Halo game, even with the God-pistol.

Trapping and spawn killing, did happen sometimes in one on one but in MM and BTB it never happened or extremely rarley.

Rarely? It was (and still is in Halo 3) the dominant strategy employed by MLG and "competitive" gamers. Those tactics mixed with glitch exploitation and BR/PP combo's made Halo 2 a very mundane game.

Connection speeds caused lag but not like other halo's it just took more skill to find out the level lag (or changing lag) and adjusting to it (something that actually takes skill and makes every match different, unless your host every game).

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with those who benefit off of good connection speeds, as regardless of what you could do to adjust (I don't disagree there), but it really didn't matter if the host was worth his salt.

Hard to tell that H2 had better MP and MM... It is very easy. CE online games I've watched on youtube aren't even watchible it's so laggy, and no lag adjust it's a frustrating game that basically no one ever played compared to halo 2.

CE (on xbox) was never designed for online play, so comparing the online components makes little to no sense. You don't need to like CE, i'm not saying that at all. But at least call Halo 2 what it was.

[Edited on 03.29.2011 4:41 PM PDT]

  • 03.29.2011 1:21 PM PDT

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