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Subject: Truth's fleet could not of destroyed Earth's defenses.

How exactly did the Prohpet of Truth manage to break through Earth's defenses in 2552? Earth was the most heavily defended Human planet, with hundreds if not thousands of War Ships ( Dozens upon dozens of Marathon class Cruisers are seen in Halo 2 ), Hundreds of Frigates, as well as 298 Orbital Defense Platforms.

Truth had 30 Ships ( It was revealed at the Ark that Truth had 3 times as many ships as the Elites, who only had 10 ). The Forerunner Dreadnought had all weapons removed. The ODP's alone outnumbered Truth's fleet, as well as only taking 5 seconds to reload ( 12 Ships destroyed every minute, which gives the possibility of 3576 ships destroyed in 5 Seconds with all the ODP's firing ).

Was this simply done for more drama? Or am I just getting over-estimate just like those at Reach?

  • 03.25.2011 8:05 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

30 ships < 300 M.A.C guns...

I don't know, it really is sad isn't it 0_0

  • 03.25.2011 8:09 PM PDT

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"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

I don't know. The MAC guns should have won easily.

  • 03.25.2011 8:12 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Two Words:

Forerunner Dreadnought.

That thing plowed through Earth's defenses. The whole space around Earth was filled with debris from Regret's Fleet and now it had UNSC engaging Truth's fleet.

Plus, ship based MAC cannons dont inflict any damage on the Forerunner dreadnought, as shown in Halo 3. I have no idea, but I guess it could witstand a shot even from a Super MAC Orbital Station.

  • 03.25.2011 8:13 PM PDT
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I blame the writers.

  • 03.25.2011 8:13 PM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
Two Words:

Forerunner Dreadnought.

That thing plowed through Earth's defenses. The whole space around Earth was filled with debris from Regret's Fleet and now it had UNSC engaging Truth's fleet.

Plus, ship based MAC cannons dont inflict any damage on the Forerunner dreadnought, as shown in Halo 3. I have no idea, but I guess it could witstand a shot even from a Super MAC Orbital Station.

Ship based MAC =/= Mark V Super MAC

I'm also referring to Truth's fleet of Covenant Ships, not the Dreadnought ( Which is weaponless ).

There has never been confirmation that the Dreadnought was undamaged, only that it was still operational. The MAC blasts that impacted it were the size of Assault Carriers.

[Edited on 03.25.2011 8:20 PM PDT]

  • 03.25.2011 8:17 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

After some of the talking in the "Unexplainable Errors in the Halo Canon" thread I can't help but think that the ODPs over Earth are not Super MAC canons, but just regular ones that pack the same punch as ship based MAC cannons. It seems like the only explanation as to how Regret's two carriers were able to bypass the African MAC cluster unscathed despite Cortana focusing solely on the Carriers. After that...well...When a hole is punched thorugh a static defense line, it kind of leaves this massive gaping hole that can be exploited allowing additional forces to avoid or outright bypass the rest of the static defenses.

Also, by the way. If you look at the display of Human vessels in Halo 2's Cairo Station cutscene you'd see there are only 67 Frigates and 8 Cruisers defending the line.

Not to mention that in ODST it seemed that some Covenant vessels seemed to just completely by pass defenses completely by initiating a slipspace jump that drops them right above New Mombasa rendering the platforms useless.

  • 03.25.2011 8:18 PM PDT

Didn't Truth simply just punch a hole in the defense and just push his fleet in through there?

I don't think every platform was destroyed, according to the Wiki, it says only 2 Platforms were destroyed in the battle. The Platforms were all over the planet, not in one concentration, not all of them were a threat as they were pointing at all the other directions.

  • 03.25.2011 8:23 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2
After some of the talking in the "Unexplainable Errors in the Halo Canon" thread I can't help but think that the ODPs over Earth are not Super MAC canons, but just regular ones that pack the same punch as ship based MAC cannons. It seems like the only explanation as to how Regret's two carriers were able to bypass the African MAC cluster unscathed despite Cortana focusing solely on the Carriers. After that...well...When a hole is punched thorugh a static defense line, it kind of leaves this massive gaping hole that can be exploited allowing additional forces to avoid or outright bypass the rest of the static defenses.

The picture of the Super MAC's at Reach are identical to those at Earth. Johnson specifically states that they are Super MAC's in Halo 2.


Also, by the way. If you look at the display of Human vessels in Halo 2's Cairo Station cutscene you'd see there are only 67 Frigates and 8 Cruisers defending the line.
That was just Harper's Fleet, not all the Fleets defending Earth. High Charity also has multiple Fleets defending it due to massive importance, just like Earth.

Not to mention that in ODST it seemed that some Covenant vessels seemed to just completely by pass defenses completely by initiating a slipspace jump that drops them right above New Mombasa rendering the platforms useless.
That is actually pretty true, and makes me wonder how this is possible. Bad story writing?

[Edited on 03.25.2011 8:25 PM PDT]

  • 03.25.2011 8:24 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: HipiO7
Two Words:

Forerunner Dreadnought.

That thing plowed through Earth's defenses. The whole space around Earth was filled with debris from Regret's Fleet and now it had UNSC engaging Truth's fleet.

Plus, ship based MAC cannons dont inflict any damage on the Forerunner dreadnought, as shown in Halo 3. I have no idea, but I guess it could witstand a shot even from a Super MAC Orbital Station.

Regret's carrier managed to go through the SMAC platforms, and it seems like all of the other platforms were asleep at the time...

The real reason for this is that if the battle for earth had played out like it probably should have Halo 2 would have been really boring.

The new plot for Halo 2:
"Master Chief, defend this station!"

"I need a weapon."

"On second thought, never mind. We just killed them all."

You can see why it is better to have them break through.

As for the dreadnaught, the Super MAC cannons are significantly more powerful than the regular ones. I think they may have caused some damage, especially with several being fired into the ship at once.

  • 03.25.2011 8:25 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate

I blame the virgins....

Stupid Virgins...can't even aim MAC Cannons straight

  • 03.25.2011 8:27 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: The Seraphim
Posted by: HipiO7
Two Words:

Forerunner Dreadnought.

That thing plowed through Earth's defenses. The whole space around Earth was filled with debris from Regret's Fleet and now it had UNSC engaging Truth's fleet.

Plus, ship based MAC cannons dont inflict any damage on the Forerunner dreadnought, as shown in Halo 3. I have no idea, but I guess it could witstand a shot even from a Super MAC Orbital Station.

Ship based MAC =/= Mark V Super MAC

I'm also referring to Truth's fleet of Covenant Ships, not the Dreadnought ( Which is weaponless ).

There has never been confirmation that the Dreadnought was undamaged, only that it was still operational. The MAC blasts that impacted it were the size of Assault Carriers.


Well, it looked perfectly undamaged. Halopedia states, that the Dreadnought can take multiple MAC rounds without suffering any noticble damage. I agree. We still dont know how strong Forerunner armour is on Keyships/Dreadnoughts. I'm sure they could take quite the punishment, even from Forerunner weaponry.

Anyways, the Prophets had deactivated the Dreadnoughts ships back with the Writ of Union that brought birth of the Covenant. The Prophets have always had certain... distrust in the Elite's. I'm sure how to reactivate the weapons systems was a closely guarded secret, known only to the High Prophets themselfs, in case of an extreme emergency, like the Elite Rebellion.

And I obviously know that ship based MAC =/= Super MAC
What made you think, I thought they were the same?

  • 03.25.2011 8:28 PM PDT

Navy got its ass kicked by Regret, then I believe most of Truth's fleet WAS lost, thus leaving only 30 ships or so to go to the Ark.

  • 03.25.2011 8:30 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

Posted by: destroys u
I don't know. The MAC guns should have won easily.


This, the overwhelming silo of the cruisers and the M.A.Cs would severely damage the covenant advance.

  • 03.25.2011 8:31 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: The Seraphim
The picture of the Super MAC's at Reach are identical to those at Earth. Johnson specifically states that they are Super MAC's in Halo 2.


Curious. What picture are you referring to? And second no he did not. All Johnson literally said was that that "MAC gun could punch a hole clean through a Covenant Capital Ship". Nowhere in his lines does he specify or imply that it's a Super MAC, and it was already established beforehand in fiction that a normal ship based MAC can potentially gut a cruiser stem to stern if its shields are down and shot at the right angle.

  • 03.25.2011 8:35 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Curious. What picture are you referring to? And second no he did not. All Johnson literally said was that that "MAC gun could punch a hole clean through a Covenant Capital Ship". Nowhere in his lines does he specify or imply that it's a Super MAC, and it was already established beforehand in fiction that a normal ship based MAC can potentially gut a cruiser stem to stern if its shields are down and shot at the right angle.


Here

It's a picture from one of the Comics or new books I believe.

  • 03.25.2011 8:38 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: The Seraphim

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Curious. What picture are you referring to? And second no he did not. All Johnson literally said was that that "MAC gun could punch a hole clean through a Covenant Capital Ship". Nowhere in his lines does he specify or imply that it's a Super MAC, and it was already established beforehand in fiction that a normal ship based MAC can potentially gut a cruiser stem to stern if its shields are down and shot at the right angle.


Here

It's a picture from one of the Comics or new books I believe.


Ah thanks for the link. Yeah looks like it's part of the comic adaptation of The Fall of Reach.

  • 03.25.2011 8:39 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Posted by: The Seraphim
Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Curious. What picture are you referring to? And second no he did not. All Johnson literally said was that that "MAC gun could punch a hole clean through a Covenant Capital Ship". Nowhere in his lines does he specify or imply that it's a Super MAC, and it was already established beforehand in fiction that a normal ship based MAC can potentially gut a cruiser stem to stern if its shields are down and shot at the right angle.


Here

It's a picture from one of the Comics or new books I believe.


Ah thanks for the link. Yeah looks like it's part of the comic adaptation of The Fall of Reach.


That's from Bootcamp, the Marvel made comic about the Spartan II training.

  • 03.25.2011 8:41 PM PDT
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Remember that by that time, the UNSC had very few ships left. They said that only one ship in every ten managed to limp away from Reach.

Also Truth only had 30 ships left AFTER he slaughtered the entire UNSC fleet, meaning that he probably had a lot more before he succeeded.

  • 03.25.2011 8:44 PM PDT

Keep in mind, the Battle of Earth began in Halo 2 and continued all the way until Halo 3. In terms of dates, according to Halopedia, that was October 20, 2552 - November 17, 2552. Plenty of time for the Covenant to send reinforcements.

Also keep in mind that in the case of the Super MACS, planets are HUGE. Even 300 platforms would have to be spread thin all around Earth, depending on the far more vulnerable fleets for support.

  • 03.25.2011 8:45 PM PDT
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The only way I could see Regrets and Truths small fleets beating Earths defenses is if they jumped in close to the stations and destroyed them or they hung back and sent in bording parties.

After Regrets fleet made a hole over Africa more ships could just fly in under the grid and hit the remaining SMACs from behind.

As for the UNSC ships they were probably slowly lost over the two or three weeks of constant fighting with covenant reinforcements between the start of Halo 2 and when the dreadnaught arrived.

  • 03.25.2011 8:50 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

The Forerunner Dreadnought obliterated everything.

Observe

[Edited on 03.25.2011 8:57 PM PDT]

  • 03.25.2011 8:56 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
The Forerunner Dreadnought obliterated everything.
Observe


This is exactly what I'm talking about. No way in hell MAC rounds are taking that thing out.

  • 03.25.2011 9:06 PM PDT

Truth had 30 ships LEFT AT THE END. He could have STARTED WITH a thousand.

How the BLOODY HELL are you incapable of figuring out something this PLAINLY SIMPLE AND OBVIOUS?

Have you ever read about a single Halo space battle? Remember Reach in FoR, where the humans took out 200 ships using super MACs, nuclear mines and their 150 warships? If you looked at what was left of the Fleet of Particular Justice after the battle of Reach using the logic used in the OP, you could also state that they couldn't "of" destroyed Reach's defenses.

  • 03.25.2011 9:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Commander GX
Bungie.Match.com: Our Johnson knows what the ladies like.


Posted by: The Seraphim
How exactly did the Prohpet of Truth manage to break through Earth's defenses in 2552? Earth was the most heavily defended Human planet, with hundreds if not thousands of War Ships ( Dozens upon dozens of Marathon class Cruisers are seen in Halo 2 ), Hundreds of Frigates, as well as 298 Orbital Defense Platforms.

Truth had 30 Ships ( It was revealed at the Ark that Truth had 3 times as many ships as the Elites, who only had 10 ). The Forerunner Dreadnought had all weapons removed. The ODP's alone outnumbered Truth's fleet, as well as only taking 5 seconds to reload ( 12 Ships destroyed every minute, which gives the possibility of 3576 ships destroyed in 5 Seconds with all the ODP's firing ).

Was this simply done for more drama? Or am I just getting over-estimate just like those at Reach?


Blame Stosh

  • 03.25.2011 9:30 PM PDT

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