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Deva Path
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
We are all going to get banned aren't we?
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: grey101
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: grey101
The "mantle" is a lie people..
How?
The mantle and reclaimer are equivocal and nearly everybody takes it literally. When halsey said the forerunner symbols have simply 3-D translations/interpretations as well as higher dimensional versions i then started to think differently as i could.
The Term "reclaimer" never made sense and never will in the ways "you" claim it is because you must have something in order to reclaim it. And I don't know of anything humanity has had because i doubt they held the "mantle" first, but i will get to that later.
I believe reclaimer means exactly that, humans are meant to reclaim the worlds they lost to the flood and forerunners (since we weren't in the wrong) thus the term. Which is why 343 kept throwing the term to chief more so which i think might be due to him having a Geas (which is pretty much confirmed from halo 1) And which also explains why the SIIIs were marked under a different category due to them coming from a different gene pool.
I would like to state while i love making theories i don't make them without enough backing info. thus nearly everything we have come to the conclusion of cryptum that is based off the last few pages should be considered with salt.
that being said It doesn't make sense for the forerunners to war with the precursors (if they did) and not remember yet remember the mantle being passed on to them. nor does it make sense for them to randomly think they were created by them (even though/if they were). So If the precursors even did have that type of ideology it is most likely lost to time or changed beyond reading as is anything that is passed with time.
In all honesty it is very naive to assume that any type of ideology can be carried perfectly through centuries if not millions and millions of years. The mantle the forerunners now follow was created after they fought the precursors to give reason and rationalize their thirst for power.
Greg bear even says it himself that the forerunners have bent and bend the mantle very badly in an interview on waypoint. they follow a rite to protect all life yet they turned humanity into lemurs the first damn chance they got. and claimed they did so due to this "mantle" and all of you still believe in this divine right?
The librarian herself (which is the oldest known forerunner) states it is nothing more than a fairytale. That came from her, one of the most if respected and prominent forerunners in forerunner history.
Shes right, it is a idea made up to justify the wrong they do.
I'm not against what you're saying really, I agree that the Mantel is probably not all that we think it is. However I don't think Reclaimer means just what you're saying it does, that may indeed be part of it. Your interpretation is much too simple, and I don't think it's what 343i would do, not by itself at least. You don't have to have possessed something before in order to reclaim it, if you are declared the heir of something placed in a safe deposit or the bank, even though it was not yours before when you go to take you are reclaiming it. And why would the Forerunners make it so only Humanity could interface with the Halo array and a "Reclaimer" must be sought out before activation can happen if the term Reclaimer simply meant reclaiming Humanities' old worlds?
As for the SIIIs and why the Onyx Sentinels labled them hostiles, I thought that was because Ash (I think it was him I don't really remember the names too well) failed to deliver the proper response or something like that and it thus deemed them all hostile.
Now on to the issue of the Mantel.
I agree that it is probably not quite the same as it was under Precursor theology, but that does not mean it was something made up by the Forerunners.
I don't know about that, there are many beliefs that have remained constant for quite some time, I would list Christianity and Islam, but they aren't quite old enough to fit the bill of what you're describing. The one that fits best is Judaism, it is one of the oldest religions on Earth and has remained completely unchanged for who knows how long now, it's been exactly the same since its founding (whenever that was), I don't see why the Mantel couldn't also fit this bill. I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest that the concept of the Mantel was created to justify war with the Precursors, but you claim is somewhat accurate, there will always be people abuse a belief system to gain power or to justify their actions (such as Faber the Master Builder), but the actions of few do not attest to the origins of a belief system or the beliefs of the many either.
And to put this line "Greg bear even says it himself that the forerunners have bent and bend the mantle very badly in an interview on waypoint. they follow a rite to protect all life yet they turned humanity into lemurs the first damn chance they got. and claimed they did so due to this "mantle" and all of you still believe in this divine right?" into context. Greg was talking about the Halo Array and how firing it will jive with the Mantel, he was saying it will be bent in order to justify eliminating all life, not that it [ihas[/i] been bent to justify everything the Forerunners have done during Cryptum and the eras before it.
Where did the Librarian say that? In Cryptum or in the Terminals? I can't really remember which, I want to say the Terminals. Again, the beliefs of one, no matter how influential and respected, does not make it truth, I'm not trying to start a flame war over religion, but Halsey is an atheist and her position is much the same amongst Humanity as the Librarian's was amongst the Forerunners, but that does not mean that Religion is false (it might be in Halo's story universe due to the way things have kinda shaped up, but it's still a possibility since we don't know anything about the Precursor time period or their beliefs).
As simple as it is it isn't "simple" it is more of a revelation of the forerunners knowing and admitting that they were wrong. Providing a sense of awe.
there have been several occasions were it was us the fans that made up entire theories and ideas that were all complex and the actually was simple that we threw away because it wasn't dramatic enough. The point of this to think outside of what everybody else has been doing for the last 10 years. Something i have been known to excel at, hence this revelation.
Worst examples you could have given. Both have been twisted beyond what they were intended for not to mention that people only selectivly read certain parts of the books and not the whole think.
Such as people trying to predict when the world will end despite the bible saying that the date can not be predicted nor will it be known.
Any other example is "god" is clearly stated not to be "of this dimension" and can not be perceived by us. Yet people claim to see him all the time.
Religion and ideas will always be subjected to interpretation and taken far too literally. and when this is done you have extremist such as the forerunners and the covenant.
I know what he said hence it being an example. The entire firing the array and the events that led up to it are a representation of exactly how they went against the whole idea of the mantle.
It was in the terminals and that comparison doesn't fit seeing how there were only 3 people (including her) that were in the librarians spot. while in the whole humanity there have been many many and many halseys.
Posted by: firedune
I believe that the prisoner had something else in mind when answering "our solution is at hand". Cryptum states that humanity used the prisoner as a kind of oracle, to tell the future. Since the prisoner ( and apparently all precursors) had a much deeper understanding of the universe (would explain how the prisoner could pedict the future), it was referring to something else, some grander plan that would be put into motion. This obviously is implied that the forerunner race would soon be destroyed, but i think that he is referring to Bornstellar. There are still two more books to be published, and the story will explain itself ath the end.
Some supporting evidence is the terminals in Halo 3. All of them. The diadect is apparently writing to the librarian, but we all know that the didact "inhabits" Bornstellar's mind and has the ability to control his movements. It is possible that bornstellar is the CAUSE of the firing of the halos,(and in turn the destuction of all sentient life in the galaxy) and that the prisoner is refering to bornstellar and how he may be the part of the prisoner's plan.
bornsteller wasn't strong enough to balance out his mind with the didact's implants which caused him to be fully taken over.
And you are getting confused. It was Didact that talked to the prisoner and it was bornsteller that heard (the not so forerunner voice i add) speak of their time coming to an end during the domain.
[Edited on 05.25.2011 5:53 PM PDT]