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  • Subject: Spartan IV program
Subject: Spartan IV program

The concept proposed was completely possible, the arguments raised against the character were opinion based, and proved nothing.

  • 04.22.2011 6:50 PM PDT

-The fact he's tasked too create and lead a team but he's been trained too not trust anyone and he has no team experiance.

-The fact he's an ONI enforcer and he's taking torture training and the fact that he shouldn't even have that much information too require the torture training in the first place.

- Also he received the four augmentations that Dr. Halsey had planned for the Spartan IIs, but were never effected do to their failure rates. Most notably, John received a neural augmentation that increased his mental capacity as well as his I.Q. by around 47 percent, scoring around 215 on most test. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE AND THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FOUR AUGMENTATIONS IN ANY SOURCE, Even if he had made these up he could have atleast given us information on what they did or do, but no information was given even when asked.

-From age 10 to age 15, John underwent training in how to survive extreme interrogation and torture techniques used by the UNSC, Insurrectionist ((Could be outdated and ineffective.)) and the Covenant, including the infamous Brute torture techniques. ((He would have died from this seeing as brute torture usually means death.))

-Following the five years of torture, at the age of 16 he underwent one year of medical recovery. He had sustained extremely severe injuries from this training. Notably, he sustained third degree plasma burns over 95 percent of his skin within the first year of training (( Again he would have died from the plasma burns.))

-which was not allowed to be attended to until the training was complete. Also, he had multiple deep lacerations into his skin. However the most damaged part of him was his soul.((Again he would have died from the plasma burns. FAIL!))

-If he did survive his training, he would have been suffering from PTSD if a trigger word or action was used, in which case he would have been reduced too the child being tortured making him easier too kill, On top of that he would have been damn near ineffective due to the fact his body would be useless at which point, he would resemble a disfigured Spartan II in which he would have been assigned a desk job.

-Even if damaged body parts were flash cloned, he would have lost them due too the parts breaking down.

-ONI enforcer..not an assasin.

These were all adressed! Nothing here is biased but in a nut shell is the outcome of your messed up Spartan IV project..

[Edited on 04.22.2011 7:05 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 7:02 PM PDT

Nice copy/paste of devils post, I will have a response when I type it up. This will be long, so hold on.

  • 04.22.2011 7:05 PM PDT


Posted by: Murderous Clawz

-Even if damaged body parts were flash cloned, he would have lost them due too the parts breaking down.



This is true, especially since I remember reading something about the organs/replacements being taken from a fully body flash clone. I don't remember anything about just cloning lone organs.

Also, the entire project was done by ONI internal affairs. The section designed to prevent ONI from even doing anything illegal. Every action they did was known by ONI high command. and everything ONI high command knew/did was known by UNSC high command.

Also, there isn't enough torture methods to last five years without repeating them over and over.

  • 04.22.2011 7:05 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
Nice copy/paste of devils post, I will have a response when I type it up. This will be long, so hold on.


Good job disregaurding the entire thing.

  • 04.22.2011 7:06 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Murderous Clawz

Hey friend, I'm having trouble following what it is your posting, and to who/what it is addressed. I recognise one or two different facts, but other than that, I'm completely lost as to who or what the topic is.

OT: It is my opinion that ONI being themselves would feel that a continuing SPARTAN program [perhaps renamed and revised] would be a wise move to make. You never know when you're going to need a big, cybernetically enhanced stick to fend off your enemies, you know what I'm sayin? :)

  • 04.22.2011 7:12 PM PDT


Posted by: spartan120

[quote] Murderous Clawz



Quite honestly I was asking people their opinions on this persons take on Spartan fours, now the issues with the Bio I did point out. I have no issues with the idea, but the program where one Spartan IV four is made to be an ONI enforcer rather didn't sit well with me.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 7:16 PM PDT

While it is true that he was not meant to serve in a team, and that he cannot form any deep personal trust, to say that he is not capable of leading a team is absurd. The would have been taught this in Spartan training. In regards to trusting other people, he does have basic trust, based on logic. For example, if he was sent with a teammate to kill a target, he would assume that his partner is attempting to achieve the same objective, and would trust him to complete the mission. He cannot however, trust people on a more personal level.

Being a ONI enforcer, he would be sent on missions that require the killing of a target individual. This by definition makes him a assassin. These assassinations could be comparable in importance to killing a president. If the CIA (ONI) killed a high ranking officer or political official, (Castro), they would want to make sure that if the assassin was captured, he would not tell anyone who ordered the killing, so that the CIA would not be blamed, and a military counter assault would not be justified. The same applies for Section Zero. (I don't think the CIA killed Castro, its just a example.)

The augmentations that were given to my spartan are clearly outlined in Halsey's journal which came with the limited edition of Halo: Reach, so to say they are made up is a complete lie. To pages past the date March 9, 2525, she clearly list there four augmentations. The second augmentation, "Cyclo-Synthetic neural transmission gene sequences" does increase intelligence, so its not impossible.

It is irrelevant if the interrogation methods used by the Insurrectionist are outdated, torture is torture. In regards to Brute interrogations, he would be able to stay alive if his medical conditions were properly monitored by a medical team. Seeing that this training is dangerous, this is assumed.

You can survive having burns over your entire body. (NOTE THE FOLLOWING LINK SHOWS A BURN VICTIM AND IS GRAPHIC). Burn Victim. This was not meant to disrepect the victim, or his family, but it does prove that survival with recovery is possible.

By saying they were not tended to for 4 years, I meant to imply that no skin graphing was preformed until then. They would have properly bandaged and monitored the burns until training was complete. All of the extremely training would have occurred in the first year. With psychological torture being preformed over the last 4 years. So no more physical harm would have followed the burns. Also, seeing that he underwent augmentations that increase the rate of the body's self-repair, he would have been significantly better at dealing with burns when compared to a normal human.

Midway through his training he would have been flash cloned. After training was complete the clone would have been killed, and a full body skin graphing would have been preformed. With augmentations and 26th century medicine, a full recovery would have been possible, and he would look reasonably normal.

As for the argument, "They are plasma burns", I have the following response. Since no such thing as a "plasma burn" exist, I took the fire burn as a base for comparison. Since the various degrees of burns imply the damage done, a third degree fire burn would be similar to a third degree plasma burn.

Physiological torture has been proven to be the most effective means of gathering intelligence, since physical torture leads to lying. This has been confirmed by the CIA's KUBARK and "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual". Also, in the CIA's infamous' MKULTRA project, they used various methods to attempt to brainwash and physiologically destroy their test subjects. They noted that this often led to a irreversible chilling effect on the subjects personality. So yes, he mind was his most damaged part. In regards to the question of PTSD, there are a couple of things that may make him immune to PTSD.

1. People with PTSD still have a personality, subjects in the MKULTRA project never had PTSD.

2. He was extremely young; most studies in regard to PTSD have been done on older people, so the effects on a person his age are still questionable.

3. With 500 years of advancement in the field of physiology, it is safe to say that they would have treatment for this, including possible mental reconstruction.

Anything else you would like me to disprove?




  • 04.22.2011 7:42 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Murderous Clawz
Here's something someone named II Power III came up with. Any reason why this would make a crappy spartan IV, name me atleast three reasons.



although it is not known exactly who authorized the creation of the Spartan IV program, many point to the The Committee of Minds for Security as the creator. This was most likely done by giving redirecting small amount of money from within the UNSC's and ONI's already highly secretive defense research and development projects.

The Spartan IV program was designed to fulfill any extremely high value operations that could not be effectively eliminated by a Spartan III task force. Such operations included high value assassinations, sabotage, and other non conventional military operations.

The Spartan IV program was unique from other Spartans programs for a number of reasons, but mainly because it was under Section 0 leadership. This was done to ensure the safety of the information. Also it allowed for Section 0 to have access to a Spartan group in the event they needed to eliminate people located with the UNSC and ONI, such as but not limited to defectors, spies, and rogue operatives.

The Spartan IV program was planned to have two classes, the first consisting of only one candidate, with the following class to enter training once the first class underwent augmentation. This never occurred because the second class was cancelled when the full expenses of the first class were seen. This sole Spartan IV cost as much as seven Spartan IIs.

Unlike the Spartan II and Spartan III programs, candidates for the Spartan IV program were not abducted as children. Instead, ONI search public medical records to find a male and female who had genes were 99.99953 percent perfect for the augmentations that this Spartan would undergo. Once the male and female were found, they were both abducted by ONI Section 0 agents. The abductions were made to appear as murders, in which an innocent person was framed for murder, tried, and sentenced. Following the abduction of the parents, they forced the artificial insemination of the female with the male genes. After the child was born, both parents were placed in cryo indefinitely, in case they wanted to make more children with that couple.

The child who was given the legal name John Doe was then raised by ONI, who allowed him to make strong social connections to his training staff. He was noted as thinking of them as his family. This John entered military training at age 5, and at age 7 underwent augmentation.

He underwent the same augmentations that the prior generations of Spartans underwent, however, with new technology, his augmentations' were 35 percent more effective that on the prior generations. Also he received the four augmentations that Dr. Halsey had planned for the Spartan IIs, but were never effected do to their failure rates. Most notably, John received a neural augmentation that increased his mental capacity as well as his I.Q. by around 47 percent, scoring around 215 on most test.

From age 7 9 he underwent military training that paralleled what fully grown ODST, and later in his training, Spartan IIs, and Spartan IIIs, endured. During this time he still had very strong emotional connections to his training staff, which had been with him since birth. This was all according to plan.

From age 10 to age 15, John underwent training in how to survive extreme interrogation and torture techniques used by the UNSC, Insurrectionist, and the Covenant, including the infamous Brute torture techniques. This period however, was also used to destroy any moral set, or personality that he had developed prior to this point in his life. The training was done by a joint ONI Section 0, and Covenant training group. Almost all of the interrogation and torture was performed by, or overseen by the same people who he had grown close to during his childhood. This was intended to destroy any ability to truly trust someone, and to see how they used people, so that he may do the same.

Following the five years of torture, at the age of 16 he underwent one year of medical recovery. He had sustained extremely severe injuries from this training. Notably, he sustained third degree plasma burns over 95 percent of his skin within the first year of training, which was not allowed to be attended to until the training was complete. Also, he had multiple deep lacerations into his skin. However the most damaged part of him was his soul. One of his trainers commented, "A child with great promise entered training, a killing machine left, what have been done?" Following a year of reparative surgeries, including massive skin replacement, he was sent back to combat training.

From the age 17 23, He underwent training in all of the current weapons systems supported by the UNSC and Covenant, as well as the small arsenal used by the Insurrectionist. His training was notably more intense then that experienced by the Spartan II or Spartan III classes. He passed this training with ease, trainers noted that he never questioned their orders, and never complained of a heavy work load. His trainers also noted a complete lack of compassion.

From the age 24 25, John started to serve on behalf of ONI. During his first assignment, he was tasked with killing a Rebel leader who planned to release a biological weapon in the planet Earth. While the operation was planned to be 7200 Hours long, he completed the mission in only 1900 Hours, by passing through multiple secure areas that were deemed extremely hazardous, as well as making a lethal shot from over 3.7 kilometers using the M99 Special Application Scoped Rifle, in winds of over 75km do to a hurricane.

In response to the recent declarations of war against the UNSC, John has been tasked with creating a squad in order to complete even more dangerous missions, Although t still remains to be seen how he will works in a team, most ONI operatives familiar with him say that he will have minimal trouble with the change.


One: Even if the parents have perfect genes, it dose not necessarily equal the child having perfect genes.
Two: ONI prefers to be as silent as possible, especially Section 0. Trying to frame innocent people for murder is too risky and there is too much room for error.
Three: Destroying his trust? really? They used children for Spartans, partly out of the need for easily malleable genes and partly to make them trust the UNSC completely and without question. Torture is a waste of time and completely destroys this.
Four: Even with augmentations, you must realize that a child's mind can not comprehend a full on battle scenario. They would have waited until he was at least fourteen to start ODST level training.
Five: Destroying his trust and then expecting him to lead a team? ONI's really losing it. I don't even need to state the problems here.
Six: Weapons training would have been much earlier. Learning to use military weapons and equipment is only superseded by fitness in the militaries of today.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 8:14 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 8:05 PM PDT

-Yet in the bio you state that he trusted and he found close where the ones who not only tortured but essiently screwed with his mind, which would render ineffective team leader or team player. To be a team leader you need to be able too trust them as they should trust you with their life, without it you are doomed to fail as a team. A.K.A.

-Again if he is an ONI enforcer then he shouldn't be going out and doing said assassinations, They are completely different. An enforcer is someone who would go and capture and enforce the rules, an Assassin is a killer in which is hired to track and kill targets. Which effectivly made him an assassin not an enforcer.

-For torture, why even need it? Also as Daefaron said, there is no way there is enough torture methods for the amount of time that is given in the bio. Brute torture again, is extreame physical trauma, limbs torn off, cutting, lack of food and you'd be forced to stay awake unless it is not being preformed as a brute would be preforming it otherwise it would completely pointless. Example, Samantha was tortured for a month too a few, end resault, no arm, skin was severaly scared and reabilitation was needed just for the shear fact that skin and muscle was peeled off, she couldn't even move when rescued. So it's you die or you get killed for food when it comes too brute torture.

-Again the difference between fire and third degree plasma burns, okay..obviously you have no clue what you're talking about and the fact that you use someone's picture who probably recived medical treatment almost immediatly or a hell of a lot sooner then your character did, if I may, your character didn't recieve any medical treatment until after training, also the fact that a plasma based weapon can go through metal while fire cannot also disproves your arguement. In otherwords, no intesive medical treatment would also equal death. Also how were said burns applied? Plasma rifles would have burned through his body like nothing, especially as a ten year old.

-Even with the bandaging or in reality a full body cast, he would have died if not lost a crap load of flesh. Also flash cloning an entire person doesn't work, it all breaks down and I mean the entire clone.

-Alright point the agumentations are out for us that are in the journal, tell us please.

-The war vets from the vietnam war who went over were 18, they now flip out because of the small things. Also it's also influence a younger mind then it does an older mind.

1. The fact that he's 10 and going through this crap would mean he would have PTSD no way around this.

2. By mental reconstruction what do you mean exactly....removing everything that causes the PTSD to activate is gone, so you're back to part one.

-Also as for plasma burns..they exist, go run your hand under a plasma/welding torch and then tell me they don't.

Anything further you wish for me to disprove for you II Power III?

[Edited on 04.22.2011 8:19 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 8:17 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
While it is true that he was not meant to serve in a team, and that he cannot form any deep personal trust, to say that he is not capable of leading a team is absurd. The would have been taught this in Spartan training. In regards to trusting other people, he does have basic trust, based on logic. For example, if he was sent with a teammate to kill a target, he would assume that his partner is attempting to achieve the same objective, and would trust him to complete the mission. He cannot however, trust people on a more personal level.

Being a ONI enforcer, he would be sent on missions that require the killing of a target individual. This by definition makes him a assassin. These assassinations could be comparable in importance to killing a president. If the CIA (ONI) killed a high ranking officer or political official, (Castro), they would want to make sure that if the assassin was captured, he would not tell anyone who ordered the killing, so that the CIA would not be blamed, and a military counter assault would not be justified. The same applies for Section Zero. (I don't think the CIA killed Castro, its just a example.)

The augmentations that were given to my spartan are clearly outlined in Halsey's journal which came with the limited edition of Halo: Reach, so to say they are made up is a complete lie. To pages past the date March 9, 2525, she clearly list there four augmentations. The second augmentation, "Cyclo-Synthetic neural transmission gene sequences" does increase intelligence, so its not impossible.

It is irrelevant if the interrogation methods used by the Insurrectionist are outdated, torture is torture. In regards to Brute interrogations, he would be able to stay alive if his medical conditions were properly monitored by a medical team. Seeing that this training is dangerous, this is assumed.

You can survive having burns over your entire body. (NOTE THE FOLLOWING LINK SHOWS A BURN VICTIM AND IS GRAPHIC). Burn Victim. This was not meant to disrepect the victim, or his family, but it does prove that survival with recovery is possible.

By saying they were not tended to for 4 years, I meant to imply that no skin graphing was preformed until then. They would have properly bandaged and monitored the burns until training was complete. All of the extremely training would have occurred in the first year. With psychological torture being preformed over the last 4 years. So no more physical harm would have followed the burns. Also, seeing that he underwent augmentations that increase the rate of the body's self-repair, he would have been significantly better at dealing with burns when compared to a normal human.

Midway through his training he would have been flash cloned. After training was complete the clone would have been killed, and a full body skin graphing would have been preformed. With augmentations and 26th century medicine, a full recovery would have been possible, and he would look reasonably normal.

As for the argument, "They are plasma burns", I have the following response. Since no such thing as a "plasma burn" exist, I took the fire burn as a base for comparison. Since the various degrees of burns imply the damage done, a third degree fire burn would be similar to a third degree plasma burn.

Physiological torture has been proven to be the most effective means of gathering intelligence, since physical torture leads to lying. This has been confirmed by the CIA's KUBARK and "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual". Also, in the CIA's infamous' MKULTRA project, they used various methods to attempt to brainwash and physiologically destroy their test subjects. They noted that this often led to a irreversible chilling effect on the subjects personality. So yes, he mind was his most damaged part. In regards to the question of PTSD, there are a couple of things that may make him immune to PTSD.

1. People with PTSD still have a personality, subjects in the MKULTRA project never had PTSD.

2. He was extremely young; most studies in regard to PTSD have been done on older people, so the effects on a person his age are still questionable.

3. With 500 years of advancement in the field of physiology, it is safe to say that they would have treatment for this, including possible mental reconstruction.

Anything else you would like me to disprove?





Really? All the subjects in Mk Ultra where effected. Hell, Mk.Ultra II killed all of its subjects, save one who was scarred for life. Also, plasma burns, far worse than fire burns.

  • 04.22.2011 8:23 PM PDT

Also, being the owner and creator of the character Samantha. Here are the reasons she survived a month to several months under captivity. Essentially, she was given a Covenant drug which sped up healing. In addition, every night she received basic medical treatment to ensure she did not die, and recovered enough to be tortured the next day.

  • 04.22.2011 8:50 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN

As for the argument, "They are plasma burns", I have the following response. Since no such thing as a "plasma burn" exist, I took the fire burn as a base for comparison. Since the various degrees of burns imply the damage done, a third degree fire burn would be similar to a third degree plasma burn.




I'll kindly point you towards the welding/plasma torch or lightning?

Plasma burns exist I mean if you get struck by lightning you're getting burned by PLASMA. When you accidently cut a limb off using a Welding or Plasma torch, you're suffering a PLASMA BURN. Even if not too the extent covered in the books, they exist.

Idiot.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 8:59 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 8:56 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Also, being the owner and creator of the character Samantha. Here are the reasons she survived a month to several months under captivity. Essentially, she was given a Covenant drug which sped up healing. In addition, every night she received basic medical treatment to ensure she did not die, and recovered enough to be tortured the next day.

I never heard of Samantha, so i must ask: Was she a Spartan?

  • 04.22.2011 8:57 PM PDT

Sir Arch-Duke Ferdinand II Jr. Sr. III Phd.

Posted by: Bishup
They would never recruit adults namely due to the fact that they would go on power trips like a teenager who finally hit puberty. another reason why they wouldn't use adults is because there genes are fully developed making theme not malleable, making the mortality rate even worst than that of the first spartan II's. other than that i would love to see Buck being a spartan. :D


Your genes are the exact same from the moment you become a zygote to the moment you die 80 years later. I think you mean "bodies" instead of "genes". Still though, I think Ackerson's improved technologies would work on any healthy adult

  • 04.22.2011 8:58 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Devils Preists

Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN

As for the argument, "They are plasma burns", I have the following response. Since no such thing as a "plasma burn" exist, I took the fire burn as a base for comparison. Since the various degrees of burns imply the damage done, a third degree fire burn would be similar to a third degree plasma burn.




I'll kindly point you towards the welding/plasma torch or lightning?

I think plasma burns exist I mean if you get struck by lightning you're getting burned by PLASMA. When you accidently cut a limb off using a Welding or Plasma torch, you're suffering a PLASMA BURN. Even if not too the extent covered in the books, they exist.

Idiot.

Not to mention that a plasma burn can range from 1500 all the way 12,500 degrees centigrade with modern technology. Covie fire arms are heated to 3000 degrees centigrade and there mounted and ship grade weapons go even higher.

  • 04.22.2011 8:58 PM PDT


Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Also, being the owner and creator of the character Samantha. Here are the reasons she survived a month to several months under captivity. Essentially, she was given a Covenant drug which sped up healing. In addition, every night she received basic medical treatment to ensure she did not die, and recovered enough to be tortured the next day.

I never heard of Samantha, so i must ask: Was she a Spartan?


Ah yeah, she is a beta-company Spartan character I created. Not an actual one from canon.

During fighting she was wounded and incapacitated by Elites and captured to learn more information about 'demons'. After finding out she was mute due to her vocal cords being damaged during the fight, she was handed over to brutes who demanded vengeance for her kicking their asses. Which lead to the torture. Even after being rescued and many years after (the setting where I play her) she still has effects from it. A random encounter with a blood-covered brute brought those memories to the front of her mind and made her freeze, a rather realistic response from what I gather.

  • 04.22.2011 9:01 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Also, being the owner and creator of the character Samantha. Here are the reasons she survived a month to several months under captivity. Essentially, she was given a Covenant drug which sped up healing. In addition, every night she received basic medical treatment to ensure she did not die, and recovered enough to be tortured the next day.

I never heard of Samantha, so i must ask: Was she a Spartan?


Ah yeah, she is a beta-company Spartan character I created. Not an actual one from canon.

During fighting she was wounded and incapacitated by Elites and captured to learn more information about 'demons'. After finding out she was mute due to her vocal cords being damaged during the fight, she was handed over to brutes who demanded vengeance for her kicking their asses. Which lead to the torture. Even after being rescued and many years after (the setting where I play her) she still has effects from it. A random encounter with a blood-covered brute brought those memories to the front of her mind and made her freeze, a rather realistic response from what I gather.

Sounds similar to Lucy in the fact both of them never overcame there PTSD. I like this character. She sounds interesting. Did you write a story about here in The gallery Forums or something?

  • 04.22.2011 9:12 PM PDT

1. If the parents have perfect genes, since the child is a hybrid of there genes, the child would have perfect genes also.

2. When did I say ONI framed people for murder?

3. Again, His trust works on logic. So yes he can trust, in the way a private trust his Sargent, but not in the way a husband trust is wife. Also, the private trust the Sargent with his life, and his squad mates too, since they have the same object. LOGICAL, NOT PERSONAL.

4. With double the mental capacity of a normal human, even at such a young age, it would be possible to comprehend a battle.

5. He was not expected to lead a team. He was meant to be solo, but when the war got big, ONI re-purposed him and a team was required.

6. If the training was done earlier, he would be trained in weapons that may have been outdated 7 years later, when he actually entered combat.

7. ONI has enforcers, but the Spartan IV is not one of them. He is called in when the person in question has crossed the line, and must be killed.

8. Physiological torture is vastly more effective when done over extend periods of time. Also, I never said that methods were not repeated.

9. We are dealing with medicine 550 years in the future. Look at the advancements over the last 100 years. It is save to assume that a burn victim could be kept alive and stable over extended periods of time.

10. Actually, the Spartan II's parents were given flash clones in replacement for there kidnapped child, please know canon before you debate me.

11. Find scans of the Journal, or ask someone who has it to look them up for you. They are too long for me to waste my time typing out for you.

12. Again, the people who underwent testing during MKULTRA were vastly more damaged than a Vietnam veteran, but no test subjects were known to have PTSD, since toture is closer to MKULTRA, the Spartan would most likely not have it.

13. Mental reconstruction is a advanced, more intense form of therapy. It has been proposed as a treatment for torture victims, but has not been tested because of red-tape, and moral issues.

14. Please find me a case when someone was diagnosed with PLASMA BURNS. people who put there hands under a welding torch won't have burns because they wont have a hand.

15MKULTRA II? I would like to see proof of this.

16. The Degrees of a burn are standardized. A third degree burn of any sort by definition effects all layers of skin some layers of muscle. So no, a third degree plasma burn is not worse then a third degree fire burn.

17. It does not matter if plasma can be more damaging then fire. Water can cut through steel, does that make water more dangerous then fire? No. Please stop bring us these useless points.

18. Brutes don't torture to gain information, they torture to kill, however, these methods could be modified for the purposes of gathering information, which is what the spartan was exposed to.

Any other attempts to prove this wrong?


[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:18 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:16 PM PDT


Posted by: That Atheist
Sounds similar to Lucy in the fact both of them never overcame there PTSD. I like this character. She sounds interesting. Did you write a story about here in The gallery Forums or something?


Similar yeah, a theme with Samantha was until recently she never talked to anybody bar one or two people. I haven't posted anything here but I did write it up in the old forums for the rp I'm in. It does need a update to fix certain issues/expand areas.

  • 04.22.2011 9:18 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
1. If the parents have perfect genes, since the child is a hybrid of there genes, the child would have perfect genes also.

2. When did I say ONI framed people for murder?

3. Again, His trust works on logic. So yes he can trust, in the way a private trust his Sargent, but not in the way a husband trust is wife. Also, the private trust the Sargent with his life, and his squad mates too, since they have the same object. LOGICAL, NOT PERSONAL.

4. With double the mental capacity of a normal human, even at such a young age, it would be possible to comprehend a battle.

5. He was not expected to lead a team. He was meant to be solo, but when the war got big, ONI re-purposed him and a team was required.

6. If the training was done earlier, he would be trained in weapons that may have been outdated 7 years later, when he actually entered combat.

7. ONI has enforcers, but the Spartan IV is not one of them. He is called in when the person in question has crossed the line, and must be killed.

8. Physiological torture is vastly more effective when done over extend periods of time. Also, I never said that methods were not repeated.

9. We are dealing with medicine 550 years in the future. Look at the advancements over the last 100 years. It is save to assume that a burn victim could be kept alive and stable over extended periods of time.

10. Actually, the Spartan II's parents were given flash clones in replacement for there kidnapped child, please know canon before you debate me.

11. Find scans of the Journal, or ask someone who has it to look them up for you. They are too long for me to waste my time typing out for you.

12. Again, the people who underwent testing during MKULTRA were vastly more damaged than a Vietnam veteran, but no test subjects were known to have PTSD, since toture is closer to MKULTRA, the Spartan would most likely not have it.

13. Mental reconstruction is a advanced, more intense form of therapy. It has been proposed as a treatment for torture victims, but has not been tested because of red-tape, and moral issues.

14. Please find me a case when someone was diagnosed with PLASMA BURNS. people who put there hands under a welding torch won't have burns because they wont have a hand.

15MKULTRA II? I would like to see proof of this.

16. The Degrees of a burn are standardized. A third degree burn of any sort by definition effects all layers of skin some layers of muscle. So no, a third degree plasma burn is not worse then a third degree fire burn.

17. It does not matter if plasma can be more damaging then fire. Water can cut through steel, does that make water more dangerous then fire? No. Please stop bring us these useless points.

Any other attempts to prove this wrong.

Your an idiot. Please. Just go.

  • 04.22.2011 9:18 PM PDT

So you give up? I expected this to happen...

  • 04.22.2011 9:19 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#Canadian_experim ents
Look at the Canadian experiments. Thats also known as Mk.Ultra II

  • 04.22.2011 9:21 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

. A plasma burn is far worse than a third degree burn would ever be. It melts clean through the flesh.

  • 04.22.2011 9:23 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

The toture was far too excessive. Not only did you use five -blam!- years of torture but brute torture? So he spent five years having his limbs removed? Good grief man, grow up, no one survive f=five years of torture.

  • 04.22.2011 9:25 PM PDT