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  • Subject: Spartan IV program
Subject: Spartan IV program
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

The flash clones of the Spartan IIs all died after a few weaks, that was the point, silly.

  • 04.22.2011 9:26 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Trust does not work logically, especially in people who have been abused, i should know. Trust is earned. Trust via logic is not only silly but unrealistic.

  • 04.22.2011 9:28 PM PDT

If you would have read the topic on the Canadian experiments, it does not say anyone died, and it supports my idea. It states that it was meant to extract information.

Plasma CAN be worse than fire. I did not say that my spartan was exposed to the hottest known plasma. He was exposed to plasma until 3rd degree burns developed.

When did I say he underwent brute torture for 5 years? In my 1st response I clearly outlined how the torture was conducted.

I enjoy when you make up information to prove me wrong. Looks likes someone can't accept defeat.

  • 04.22.2011 9:30 PM PDT

7. ONI has enforcers, but the Spartan IV is not one of them. He is called in when the person in question has crossed the line, and must be killed.

That is an assassin, not an enforcer.

8. Physiological torture is vastly more effective when done over extend periods of time. Also, I never said that methods were not repeated.

Then why have physical torture involved?

10. Actually, the Spartan II's parents were given flash clones in replacement for there kidnapped child, please know canon before you debate me.

And the children died due to problems involved with flash cloning an entire child. As far as I know the organs and such started breaking down, resulting in the death of EVERY single flash cloned child. Essentially, taking organs and skin/etc from a fully flash cloned body would result in problems.

11. Find scans of the Journal, or ask someone who has it to look them up for you. They are too long for me to waste my time typing out for you.

The burden of proof and evidence is on you, not others. By saying "it's not worth your time" that means they have no noticeable effect.

18. Brutes don't torture to gain information, they torture to kill, however, these methods could be modified for the purposes of gathering information, which is what the spartan was exposed to.

Who, besides the brutes, would employ such methods? Also, as far as I can tell, training to resist torture only is effective if preformed exactly as they would encounter it. Thus, it would have to be performed as the enemy would. No child could survive that.

1. If the parents have perfect genes, since the child is a hybrid of there genes, the child would have perfect genes also.

Recessive genes. It's why we have white tigers. You can have two perfect tigers, but their kid could be a white tiger. Unless the parents received extensive gene therapy, there is always the chance to have a gene which is 'not perfect'.

The simply fact of saying the kid had perfect genes is stupid unless he was genetically engineered from conception.

  • 04.22.2011 9:30 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

True, UNSC medicine is a hell of a lot more advanced than ours, however, they have shown no capability to sustain a burn victim for years. Also, sustaining a burn victim would count as treatment, which you said was never administered.

  • 04.22.2011 9:34 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
If you would have read the topic on the Canadian experiments, it does not say anyone died, and it supports my idea. It states that it was meant to extract information.

Plasma CAN be worse than fire. I did not say that my spartan was exposed to the hottest known plasma. He was exposed to plasma until 3rd degree burns developed.

When did I say he underwent brute torture for 5 years? In my 1st response I clearly outlined how the torture was conducted.

I enjoy when you make up information to prove me wrong. Looks likes someone can't accept defeat.

Ever heard of a book know as secrets and Lies? Read it. Look for the section on Mk.Ultra II.

  • 04.22.2011 9:36 PM PDT


Posted by: That Atheist
True, UNSC medicine is a hell of a lot more advanced than ours, however, they have shown no capability to sustain a burn victim for years. Also, sustaining a burn victim would count as treatment, which you said was never administered.


Case in point, the defense of the biography counter-acts the information inside.

No treatment would mean he would not have been bandaged, he would not have received a body-cast to protect him from infection due to his skin being gone cause the burns.

  • 04.22.2011 9:36 PM PDT

-II Power III you said that in your bio, his training was suppose to eliminate all forms of trust, logical or otherwise. So in essence your response too the whole trust issue is an overall fail.

-Even with double mental compacity he would not understand a battlefield scenario, unless he was one of those super intelligent kids from the Ender seires.

-He would have gotten his entire team killed off if they put them into a combat scenario.

-In the halo universe when has it ever been said in canon or that groups Canon that he weapons were replaced or upgraded in the span of time? So you're saying they are changed so drastically that you'd need new lessons?

-Repeating the same torture over and over is pointless.

-But a Plasma burn victim would succumb too death considering that the PLASMA in the halo universe can go through metal and the fact that the child was without armor or immiedate medical attention would have had him killed. DESPITE MEDICAL ADVANCEMENTS.

-The flash clones died because of my respones above your moroninc retort.

-OKAY Spartans still get PTSD just as anyone else would, Lucy as stated before got PTSD, so I'm damn sure your fail of a spartan would succumb to it as well.

-Welding torches not only cut but seal the wound so no duh there isn't going to be a burn, because the wound has been sealed up. But during the process you suffer a burn.

-Water can cut through it over an extended period of time, Plasma can cut through materials a hell of a lot quicker again logical fail. Now stop your useless attempts to save yourself and admit you're a failure in trying to make this in the first place.

-Sure but then it isn't brute torture moron.


[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:40 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:36 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
If you would have read the topic on the Canadian experiments, it does not say anyone died, and it supports my idea. It states that it was meant to extract information.

Plasma CAN be worse than fire. I did not say that my spartan was exposed to the hottest known plasma. He was exposed to plasma until 3rd degree burns developed.

When did I say he underwent brute torture for 5 years? In my 1st response I clearly outlined how the torture was conducted.

I enjoy when you make up information to prove me wrong. Looks likes someone can't accept defeat.


Indeed, you're clearly backing up into a corner II Power III.

Plasma burn is still a Plasma burn, and last I checked any kind of Plasma burn would still result in death considering PLASMA is a lot hotter.

So stop playing intelligent and admit defeat.

  • 04.22.2011 9:42 PM PDT
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Well, I'm going to quietly leave this thread confused, and just assume some RPers were getting on to another one for making a god-mode character that doesn't make sense.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:44 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:43 PM PDT

Indeed. How did the third degree burns form on the kid. How were they applied?

Without this information, it's impossible to say the kid survived.

  • 04.22.2011 9:44 PM PDT

No not all of us are Rp'ers, I'm just baffled by this idiots stupidity.

  • 04.22.2011 9:45 PM PDT

1. If there are recessive genes, they are not in the 99.999% of perfect genes. In that percentile, no receive genes exist.

2. The covenant, and rebels would be aware of brute torture methods, so they might use them. It would be better to have him prepared for encountering them.

3. I provided where to find them at. You can ask Kaos, or anyone who has it, to read them to you.

4. The spartan II clones were done 25 years prior, it could be assumed that medicine advanced far enough to create completely successful flash clones.

5. In the original Bio, I never called him a enforcer. I only mentioned assassinations. So to say he is not a enforcer proves nothing for you.

6. Note I never said that physical torture was not effect. It does work, so he would need to be trained in it. However, since it is not as effective, only 1/5 of his training was dedicated to this.

7. Since we are going "burden of proof" here, I want proof from a reputable medical source, that plasma burns do existence, and what the damaged cause by them are.

  • 04.22.2011 9:45 PM PDT


Posted by: SubjectNameHere
Well, I'm going to quietly leave this thread confused, and just assume some RPers were getting on to another one for making a god-mode character that doesn't make sense.


Well, you are correct in a sense. The theme of the topic was Spartan IV projects. It was posted to see what the public thought of it and the creator of biography in question took offense to it.

Who knows, maybe we'll get back to discussing proper and sensible Spartan IV programs.

  • 04.22.2011 9:46 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
1. If there are recessive genes, they are not in the 99.999% of perfect genes. In that percentile, no receive genes exist.

2. The covenant, and rebels would be aware of brute torture methods, so they might use them. It would be better to have him prepared for encountering them.

3. I provided where to find them at. You can ask Kaos, or anyone who has it, to read them to you.

4. The spartan II clones were done 25 years prior, it could be assumed that medicine advanced far enough to create completely successful flash clones.

5. In the original Bio, I never called him a enforcer. I only mentioned assassinations. So to say he is not a enforcer proves nothing for you.

6. Note I never said that physical torture was not effect. It does work, so he would need to be trained in it. However, since it is not as effective, only 1/5 of his training was dedicated to this.

7. Since we are going "burden of proof" here, I want proof from a reputable medical source, that plasma burns do existence, and what the damaged cause by them are.


And just now you mention this? It was strongly implied it was 99% physical torture. Also, NO Elite would perform brute torture. I highly doubt anybody but the most -blam!- up humans would.

Again, I remember glancing through the journal and I don't remember anything about 'declined' augmentations. Since you can't be assed to describe them, I can only assume that they don't have any noticeable effects.

Also, again, how was the plasma burns formed and applied?

  • 04.22.2011 9:49 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
1. If there are recessive genes, they are not in the 99.999% of perfect genes. In that percentile, no receive genes exist.

2. The covenant, and rebels would be aware of brute torture methods, so they might use them. It would be better to have him prepared for encountering them.

3. I provided where to find them at. You can ask Kaos, or anyone who has it, to read them to you.

4. The spartan II clones were done 25 years prior, it could be assumed that medicine advanced far enough to create completely successful flash clones.

5. In the original Bio, I never called him a enforcer. I only mentioned assassinations. So to say he is not a enforcer proves nothing for you.

6. Note I never said that physical torture was not effect. It does work, so he would need to be trained in it. However, since it is not as effective, only 1/5 of his training was dedicated to this.

7. Since we are going "burden of proof" here, I want proof from a reputable medical source, that plasma burns do existence, and what the damaged cause by them are.

Even in perfect genes, there are always recessive one. Nothing is truly "perfect"

  • 04.22.2011 9:50 PM PDT

So your laziness is a defense?It is not my fault that you "glanced" through the journal. I said where to find them at, go find read them.
Also, since it is against B.net policy to post links to scans of books/Journals etc, I am afraid that I have done all I can. The rest is on you.

Elites would not preform brute torture, but ONI would. They most likely would be -Blam!- up, but that is not the point. ONI could find them.

How was the plasma burn applied? A square mm flow of plasma was applied directly to the skin of the spartan. This flow was carefully monitored so when characteristics of a 3rd degree burn appeared, the flow was moved. Since the flow was never in position long enough to burn through and cause a 4th degree burn, your arguments are invalid.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:58 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:55 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
1. If there are recessive genes, they are not in the 99.999% of perfect genes. In that percentile, no receive genes exist.

2. The covenant, and rebels would be aware of brute torture methods, so they might use them. It would be better to have him prepared for encountering them.

3. I provided where to find them at. You can ask Kaos, or anyone who has it, to read them to you.

4. The spartan II clones were done 25 years prior, it could be assumed that medicine advanced far enough to create completely successful flash clones.

5. In the original Bio, I never called him a enforcer. I only mentioned assassinations. So to say he is not a enforcer proves nothing for you.

6. Note I never said that physical torture was not effect. It does work, so he would need to be trained in it. However, since it is not as effective, only 1/5 of his training was dedicated to this.

7. Since we are going "burden of proof" here, I want proof from a reputable medical source, that plasma burns do existence, and what the damaged cause by them are.


-Okay so ONI might use them as well? No they wouldn't, they would change it into something that isn't BRUTE TORTURE.

-And yes you've gotten me on the Plasma burns, but they do exist despite what is said, so if you wish to prove me wrong, go and stand outside during a rain storm with a metal rod sticking out of the ground.

- Okay so we can assume medical advancements came so far that we can make successful flash clone?

-YOU NEVER HAD AN ORIGINAL BIO IDIOT, DEVILS HAD TO GET ON YOUR BUTT TO MAKE ONE.

-Get off your butt and read the journal or find it on Halopedian where it states where we can actually see what these agumentations are.

-

  • 04.22.2011 9:58 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
So your laziness is a defense?It is not my fault that you "glanced" through the journal. I said where to find them at, go find read them.
Also, since it is against B.net policy to post links to scans of books/Journals etc, I am afraid that I have done all I can. The rest is on you.

Elites would not preform brute torture, but ONI would. They most likely would be -Blam!- up, but that is not the point. ONI could find them.

How was the plasma burn applied? A square mm flow of plasma was applied directly to the skin of the spartan. This flow was carefully monitored so when characteristics of a 3rd degree burn appeared, the flow was moved. Since the flow was never in position long enough to burn through and cause a 4th degree burn, your arguments are invalid.


So, it's too long to type them out, yet you can type out long posts against other areas?

No proof that ONI in the setting would perform brute torture. They would HAVE NO REASON TO.

So... it was a stream a pure plasma applied directly to the skin? I don't see how the kid has skin left, or muscles...

  • 04.22.2011 10:01 PM PDT

-Can you prove the wouldn't?

-Can you provide proof of the medical community acknowledging plasma burns as a type of burn?

-The flash cloning methods would have undergone advancement, so yes, it could be assumed. They found a way to make spartan II augmentations 100% survivable, this is not a big jump.

-Devils never told me "go improve your bio". Some guy tried to make another spartan IV, so to prove my spartan's primacy of concept, I improved mine. However, how is that even related?

-Be flow was on a guided rail above the spartan, so no single point was exposed long enough to cause major damage, it is possible.

-What is preventing the Elites or rebels from using brute interrogation methods? Nothing, as such, he might face them, and needed to be trained in them.



[Edited on 04.22.2011 10:07 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 10:05 PM PDT
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[Insert something funny]

I believe it is a mixture of all three programs

I : Adults augmented, minus after-effect disease/disfunction

II : Trained for years, better Mjolnir

III : Massive numbers, cloaking

This program would only be able to done with massive support by the citizens, a little propaganda (Elites are attacking, Covenant reborn, etc.) or civil uprising far worse then the ones predating the Covenant-Human War.

Another thing to reflect is that the UNSC could of gotten their hands on Forerunner tech. This would either upgrade weapon specs, armor specs, or upgraded AI programs. This would make the S-IV's both efficient and deadly.

  • 04.22.2011 10:05 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
-Can you prove the wouldn't?

-Can you provide proof of the medical community acknowledging plasma burns as a type of burn?

-The flash cloning methods would have undergone advancement, so yes, it could be assumed. They found a way to make spartan II augmentations 100% survivable, this is not a big jump.

-Devils never told me "go improve your bio". Some guy tried to make another spartan IV, so to prove my spartan's primacy of concept, I improved mine. However, how is that even related?

-Be flow was on a guided rail above the spartan, so no single point was exposed long enough to cause major damage, it is possible.

-What is preventing the Elites or rebels from using brute interrogation methods? Nothing, as such, he might face them, and needed to be trained in them.



Uhm..wrong, last I checked I had to get at you because you were going after other people who HAD good bios. So I Said GO AND MAKE A BIO and you complied. So don't sit there and lie about it when I was clearly there and I clearly saved the message on the old forums.

  • 04.22.2011 10:09 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
-Can you prove the wouldn't?

-Can you provide proof of the medical community acknowledging plasma burns as a type of burn?

-The flash cloning methods would have undergone advancement, so yes, it could be assumed. They found a way to make spartan II augmentations 100% survivable, this is not a big jump.

-Devils never told me "go improve your bio". Some guy tried to make another spartan IV, so to prove my spartan's primacy of concept, I improved mine. However, how is that even related?



Can you give me any type of situation where ONI would have to use brute torture? There are none.

Yet, you never mentioned improvements in flash cloning. Nor did you ever talk to the canon-master of the community about it. Infact, as far as I know flash cloning hasn't been touched beyond replacing single organs. There has been no need to do full flash clones of a person.

You did increase your bio length, but added some major problems. If you weren't so against changing any of these details, such as why he needed to be tortured for so long, or other things, it would've been fine. Hell, if you hadn't gone on a childish rage attacking other bios and people, you wouldn't have even been banned at that point.

  • 04.22.2011 10:10 PM PDT


Posted by: NK 0WNS 4 FUN
-Can you prove the wouldn't?

-Can you provide proof of the medical community acknowledging plasma burns as a type of burn?

-The flash cloning methods would have undergone advancement, so yes, it could be assumed. They found a way to make spartan II augmentations 100% survivable, this is not a big jump.

-Devils never told me "go improve your bio". Some guy tried to make another spartan IV, so to prove my spartan's primacy of concept, I improved mine. However, how is that even related?

-Be flow was on a guided rail above the spartan, so no single point was exposed long enough to cause major damage, it is possible.

-What is preventing the Elites or rebels from using brute interrogation methods? Nothing, as such, he might face them, and needed to be trained in them.



-Enough proof, go run your hand under an active welding or PLASMA torch or sit with a metal pole under a lightning storm.

-Are you an idiot...Plasma damage is still plasma damage, you're screwed.

-Elites find brute torture to be a dirty and evil act, no point in it. They don't do it. Innies would be dead if they tried to learn about the torture. Also provide evidence that ONI or the UNSC Would preform the torture?

  • 04.22.2011 10:14 PM PDT

Although the following protocols have unacceptable FAIL rates, the show promise, and may, with future research, be redesigned with acceptable tolerances.

1. Adrenal thermal metabolase

Enhances adrenal response under phyiological distess. Catalyst, however, breaks down into highly toxic waste products making this protocol eventually fatal.

Future research: Possible coenzyme inhibitor?
---------------------------

2. Cyclo-Synthetic neural transmission gene sequences

Significant evidence to support increases in intelligence and cognitive markers. Very high rate of psychotic and antisocial behavior absolutely prohibits the use of this protocol on any Spartan II candidate

Future Research: Gradual application over the subject's early life mitigates side effects? (Long term studies being quietly arranged; see notes on Operation: TENDRIL)
---------------------------

3.Leucocytic coprotein complex and microfibrin spindlase

Wound suppression and near instant blood clotting of vascular breaches. 33% of subjects incur fatal clotting.

Future Research: Unknown
---------------------------

4.Neural surface viral microphages

Site injection on neural tissues boosts selenium fiber bonding by three orders of magnitude. Subsequent applications fall well within acceptable signal-to-noise ratios, making cybernetic augmentation and integration possible.

Fail rate: UNKNOWN, but I am loath to manipulate neural parameters without more detailed studies.

Future Research: Pending.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Game-Set-Match

Spartan IV- 1
Your canon team - 0

[Edited on 04.22.2011 10:25 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 10:23 PM PDT