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  • Subject: Questions regarding Human-Elite (Seperatist) alliance
Subject: Questions regarding Human-Elite (Seperatist) alliance

I just want to iron some things out I have been confused about. Halo 3 is when the Elites and humanity first work together. The alliance s made out of neccesity, but how are relations? While uncomfortable at first, do tensions ease up to a similar relation between Arbiter and Chief/Miranda/Johnson? Also, post Halo 3, what are the realtions between elites and humans like. Is their long term alliances built? Both reaparing together in the aftermath of the war> O r has this still not been complely explored?

  • 03.28.2011 11:10 PM PDT
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I'm not 100% sure but I think both sides went there own seperate ways.

30 years of genocide isn't something that can be easily forgiven and its likely some elites still hate humans and would kill them on sight or at least look down on them.

  • 03.29.2011 12:41 AM PDT

Most Elites respected the humans for their courage and combat tactics, and some openly wondered why they were never offered the chance to join the Covenant like every other race they encountered. They thought humans were "almost honorable."

But, they were told humans were heretics and so honor or no had to die. Till their religious leaders turned out to be liars and attempted genocide on them....so the Elites and humans did in fact work well together.

But Like Lord Hood said, humanity can't forget what their kind did to ours. They went their seperate ways, as uneasy allies. The Grunts apparently were too indecisive to keep rebelling past Halo 3, and the Hunters motivations for joining the Elites was never truly known. So the Seperatist alliance (humans, elites, grunts, hunters) seems to have mostly fractured.....same as the Loyalists, as the Brutes are even fighting each other now. And the Jackals just want to raid, and the Drones just want to worship their hive queens or whatever.

We'll get our first true glimpse of Halo, post 3, in Ghosts of Onyx 2 which is coming out soon.

  • 03.29.2011 1:57 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Well, we all know about the genocide and the 27 years of war. That is the biggest problem. However most of the surviving Human population had no idea how severe the war was. The inhabitants of Forseti were described to only know the Covenant as something like "The Boogymen" because ONI watered down the news of the war so much through their propaganda campaign. People were not subject to the entire war and what exactly went on during it.

Also, there are other things that kind of suggest a relation of sorts:

Conversations from the Universe

The Humans are weak, but they are tenacious. Even the smallest ones hurl themselves against our defenses with honor. If only the Unggoy were as committed.

>>> I wonder about the Humans, Commander. Their technology is limited, but some of it is useful and their battle techniques are impressive. They are excellent strategists. But what I ask is this: Why have we not offered them the absolution of the Covenant? From the beginning of this war, the Prophets have made no attempt to absorb them or even offer the option of honorable submission. Why?

Perhaps they fear them? We do not know where their homeworld is. Their pattern of retreat is either hopelessly random, or brilliantly conceived. What if the Humans have more power, more numbers than we suspect? What if they lead us to a trap?

>>> No. I do not think that is the reasoning. They continue to lose territory, and pattern or no pattern, these defenses must be part of a perimeter. I suspect we are forcing them into a tighter arena than they care to fight in-soon we may be able to use the Sharquoi. And their victories, however few, always rely on the same thing-strategy, brute force, or luck. No. The only secret they hold is the location of their homeworld.

What about the atrocity at Halo? That was not luck, nor brute force. The Demon is a mystery. He outwitted and outfought entire legions on Halo. Perhaps there are more like him?

>>> I do not believe that. We have seen their kind before and destroyed them. Their numbers have dwindled and there have been no reported sightings since our victory at Reach.

Then why do we continue to hunt them? When surely they merit consideration to accept and embrace the Covenant?

>>> Let us discuss this at a more prudent moment. A Jiralhanae approaches.

N'tho 'Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth.
Encyclopaedia, Page 129
After the Great Schism, the Ascetics made Usze ['Taham] one of their liaisons within their new UNSC allies.

Note how it does not say "during the Great Schism".

Evolutions, Page 517 / 342 in Volume II
The Covenant threat is lifted for the moment, but I very much doubt that our agreement with the Sangheili and their representative, the Arbiter, is the end of our conflict with the other Covenant species.

There are also instances in the Encyclopaedia where information regarding certain Covenant weapons are "pending treaty negotiations with Sangheili".

[Edited on 03.29.2011 9:13 AM PDT]

  • 03.29.2011 8:15 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

I pray the Sangheili-Human alliance stays forever.

  • 03.29.2011 8:21 AM PDT

Posted by: forthnback
Most Elites respected the humans for their courage and combat tactics, and some openly wondered why they were never offered the chance to join the Covenant like every other race they encountered. They thought humans were "almost honorable."

But, they were told humans were heretics and so honor or no had to die. Till their religious leaders turned out to be liars and attempted genocide on them....so the Elites and humans did in fact work well together.

But Like Lord Hood said, humanity can't forget what their kind did to ours. They went their seperate ways, as uneasy allies. The Grunts apparently were too indecisive to keep rebelling past Halo 3, and the Hunters motivations for joining the Elites was never truly known. So the Seperatist alliance (humans, elites, grunts, hunters) seems to have mostly fractured.....same as the Loyalists, as the Brutes are even fighting each other now. And the Jackals just want to raid, and the Drones just want to worship their hive queens or whatever.

We'll get our first true glimpse of Halo, post 3, in Ghosts of Onyx 2 which is coming out soon.

Yup, very true.

  • 03.29.2011 8:42 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

The Elites respect the humans, no doubt about it. And a growing number of Elites sympathize for them (27 years of genocide will do that to you), so I think the Elites feel guilt more than anything.

The humans on the other hand are devastated. Both sides simply cannot fight anymore, they don't have the power. It'd be like using sticks and stones to fight over a scrap of bread.

  • 03.29.2011 9:02 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
The humans on the other hand are devastated. Both sides simply cannot fight anymore, they don't have the power. It'd be like using sticks and stones to fight over a scrap of bread.

Where the bread is blue and mouldy.

  • 03.29.2011 9:05 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
The humans on the other hand are devastated. Both sides simply cannot fight anymore, they don't have the power. It'd be like using sticks and stones to fight over a scrap of bread.

Where the bread is blue and mouldy.
The Elites have a home, they don't need anything from Earth.

  • 03.29.2011 1:40 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
The humans on the other hand are devastated. Both sides simply cannot fight anymore, they don't have the power. It'd be like using sticks and stones to fight over a scrap of bread.

Where the bread is blue and mouldy.
The Elites have a home, they don't need anything from Earth.

I think it highlights the fact that there is also no point to them fighting between each other, thus the bread is blue mold.

  • 03.29.2011 2:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Commander GX
Bungie.Match.com: Our Johnson knows what the ladies like.


Posted by: anton1792


I keep thinking you're me.

Anyway, I believe they each went their own way, and they agreed to help each other in times of war.

  • 03.29.2011 2:55 PM PDT

There once was an ugly barnacle. He was so ugly that everyone died.

The end.

SCFH


Posted by: Nameless Oracle
I'm not 100% sure but I think both sides went there own seperate ways.

30 years of genocide isn't something that can be easily forgiven and its likely some elites still hate humans and would kill them on sight or at least look down on them.



And i'm sure humans think the same way too.

  • 03.29.2011 3:08 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Well, we all know about the genocide and the 27 years of war. That is the biggest problem. However most of the surviving Human population had no idea how severe the war was. The inhabitants of Forseti were described to only know the Covenant as something like "The Boogymen" because ONI watered down the news of the war so much through their propaganda campaign. People were not subject to the entire war and what exactly went on during it.

Also, there are other things that kind of suggest a relation of sorts:

Conversations from the Universe

The Humans are weak, but they are tenacious. Even the smallest ones hurl themselves against our defenses with honor. If only the Unggoy were as committed.

>>> I wonder about the Humans, Commander. Their technology is limited, but some of it is useful and their battle techniques are impressive. They are excellent strategists. But what I ask is this: Why have we not offered them the absolution of the Covenant? From the beginning of this war, the Prophets have made no attempt to absorb them or even offer the option of honorable submission. Why?

Perhaps they fear them? We do not know where their homeworld is. Their pattern of retreat is either hopelessly random, or brilliantly conceived. What if the Humans have more power, more numbers than we suspect? What if they lead us to a trap?

>>> No. I do not think that is the reasoning. They continue to lose territory, and pattern or no pattern, these defenses must be part of a perimeter. I suspect we are forcing them into a tighter arena than they care to fight in-soon we may be able to use the Sharquoi. And their victories, however few, always rely on the same thing-strategy, brute force, or luck. No. The only secret they hold is the location of their homeworld.

What about the atrocity at Halo? That was not luck, nor brute force. The Demon is a mystery. He outwitted and outfought entire legions on Halo. Perhaps there are more like him?

>>> I do not believe that. We have seen their kind before and destroyed them. Their numbers have dwindled and there have been no reported sightings since our victory at Reach.

Then why do we continue to hunt them? When surely they merit consideration to accept and embrace the Covenant?

>>> Let us discuss this at a more prudent moment. A Jiralhanae approaches.

N'tho 'Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth.
Encyclopaedia, Page 129
After the Great Schism, the Ascetics made Usze ['Taham] one of their liaisons within their new UNSC allies.

Note how it does not say "during the Great Schism".

Evolutions, Page 517 / 342 in Volume II
The Covenant threat is lifted for the moment, but I very much doubt that our agreement with the Sangheili and their representative, the Arbiter, is the end of our conflict with the other Covenant species.

There are also instances in the Encyclopaedia where information regarding certain Covenant weapons are "pending treaty negotiations with Sangheili".


Don't forget Zhar

  • 03.29.2011 4:52 PM PDT

Thanks for all the answers everybody. Just wish there was a much more clear answer. But there are good, they give a good general feel about it.

  • 03.29.2011 7:11 PM PDT


Posted by: forthnback
Most Elites respected the humans for their courage and combat tactics, and some openly wondered why they were never offered the chance to join the Covenant like every other race they encountered. They thought humans were "almost honorable."

But, they were told humans were heretics and so honor or no had to die. Till their religious leaders turned out to be liars and attempted genocide on them....so the Elites and humans did in fact work well together.

But Like Lord Hood said, humanity can't forget what their kind did to ours. They went their seperate ways, as uneasy allies. The Grunts apparently were too indecisive to keep rebelling past Halo 3, and the Hunters motivations for joining the Elites was never truly known. So the Seperatist alliance (humans, elites, grunts, hunters) seems to have mostly fractured.....same as the Loyalists, as the Brutes are even fighting each other now. And the Jackals just want to raid, and the Drones just want to worship their hive queens or whatever.

We'll get our first true glimpse of Halo, post 3, in Ghosts of Onyx 2 which is coming out soon.


Hunters had a strong respect for Elites, sometimes refusing to commune with any other species but them. It makes sense for some Hunters to join the Seperatists.

  • 03.29.2011 7:25 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: forthnback
Most Elites respected the humans for their courage and combat tactics, and some openly wondered why they were never offered the chance to join the Covenant like every other race they encountered. They thought humans were "almost honorable."

But, they were told humans were heretics and so honor or no had to die. Till their religious leaders turned out to be liars and attempted genocide on them....so the Elites and humans did in fact work well together.

But Like Lord Hood said, humanity can't forget what their kind did to ours. They went their seperate ways, as uneasy allies. The Grunts apparently were too indecisive to keep rebelling past Halo 3, and the Hunters motivations for joining the Elites was never truly known. So the Seperatist alliance (humans, elites, grunts, hunters) seems to have mostly fractured.....same as the Loyalists, as the Brutes are even fighting each other now. And the Jackals just want to raid, and the Drones just want to worship their hive queens or whatever.

We'll get our first true glimpse of Halo, post 3, in Ghosts of Onyx 2 which is coming out soon.


Hunters had a strong respect for Elites, sometimes refusing to commune with any other species but them. It makes sense for some Hunters to join the Seperatists.


I think the vast majority of the Hunters did join the Sepratists, I think the Grunts might have been more evenly split, but I'm pretty sure it'd be safe to say all the Hunters sided with the Elites. At leas that's how the line made it sound in Halo 2, and also as Chief when you're fighting through High Charity none of the Hunters are fighting for the Brutes.

  • 03.30.2011 7:37 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: TedToaster22
Don't forget Zhar

Aye, I forgot about him. Henry and Reff 'Talamee also come to mind. Reff was a bit insane though I must admit; he did not develop a respect or benign attitude towards Humanity through reason or logic like Zhar did, but rather through religious fanaticism at the opposite end of the spectrum to the Covenant's point of view. Where the Covenant were willing to destroy Humanity, Reff was prepared to destroy the Covenant to unify Humanity and the other races. He is debatable, because he did not conclude those feelings by himself but was rather under the impression that his Gods wanted him to do that.

We do not know what was going on in Henry's head, but he was pretty close to Rimmer and showed the same fondness towards Benti. If there were to be any problems of harsh feelings, I feel that it would be primarily from Humanity's end, not the Sangheili.

Posted by: M94 Mushroom Man
Posted by: anton1792

I keep thinking you're me.

No, you keep thinking that you are me. ;)

[Edited on 04.01.2011 6:36 PM PDT]

  • 04.01.2011 3:06 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Humanity and the Elites most likely kept their relations, they depend on each other for the time being. I´m sure this will playout and benefit both sides on the long term.

But these are theories, and what would best fit the known intel. But we have no idea for sure how it could turn out. Wait for Halo 4, I guess.

  • 04.01.2011 3:21 PM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
I pray the Sangheili-Human alliance stays forever.

nothing last forever but the alliance would have to last untill the iminent flood theat was gone but species vs. species warfare would not happen for at least a thousand years
/opinion

  • 04.01.2011 4:45 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: n00b 0f d00m
Posted by: hotshot revan II
I pray the Sangheili-Human alliance stays forever.
nothing last forever but the alliance would have to last untill the iminent flood theat was gone but species vs. species warfare would not happen for at least a thousand years
/opinion

Why would war have a chance of happening after 1000 years?

I do not see any reason for an alliance to cease if it manages to last for more than a few hundred years, unless they get bored of each other. However, that is assuming that any meaningful absolute distinction between their societies and cultures even exists by then.

[Edited on 04.01.2011 6:39 PM PDT]

  • 04.01.2011 5:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Commander GX
Bungie.Match.com: Our Johnson knows what the ladies like.


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: n00b 0f d00m
Posted by: hotshot revan II
I pray the Sangheili-Human alliance stays forever.
nothing last forever but the alliance would have to last untill the iminent flood theat was gone but species vs. species warfare would not happen for at least a thousand years
/opinion

Why would war have a chance of happening after 1000 years?

I do not see any reason for it to cease if it manages to last for more than a few hundred years, unless they get bored of each other. However, that is assuming that any meaningful absolute distinction between their societies and cultures even exists by then.


I did it again. -_-

Anyway, why would they get bored of each other? (This is sarcasm)

  • 04.01.2011 5:19 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

anton1792
Hit it on the head as usual. Pending treaty negotiations is one of the most interesting things along with the liaison Usze. So obviously there is some contact. I think that is what will end up saving the Elites because the UNSC will be able to help them repair ships.

[Edited on 04.01.2011 5:27 PM PDT]

  • 04.01.2011 5:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
I pray the Sangheili-Human alliance stays forever.

Chances are they never see each other again.

  • 04.02.2011 12:34 AM PDT