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Subject: A question about the glassing of Reach.

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

So there have been a few threads since Reach came out about the Covenant's capability to glass the entire surface of a planet. Basically asking the question of whether or not the only glassed isolated portions, that is cities and high population areas, or actually glassed the entire surface.

At the end of Reach we get several images of the planet after it has fallen, such as this. That show only partial glassing of what I assume are the major population centers, and military complexes.

Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

The differences in the two types of glassing, total or partial, have I think a large impact on the plausibility of the final scene of Reach where Humanity is seen recolonizing Reach. It also gives us a very different portrayal of the Covenant fleets power. So my question is which of the two are we supposed to view as correct?

[Edited on 04.02.2011 11:58 AM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 11:44 AM PDT

On Condemned, it is the ocean reflecting the atmosphere's coloring, which, inturn, comes from all of the fires raging on.

  • 04.02.2011 11:47 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

The one at the beginning of the game is probably Reach being terraformed in proces,that's why we barely see the Planet buring like condemned

Or it could be the other side of the planet.

  • 04.02.2011 11:47 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan1065
Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

Has a filter been applied to that?

  • 04.02.2011 11:52 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

Has a filter been applied to that?

Stupid of me. Didn't even realize. Edited to a screenshot w/o a filter. My fault.

  • 04.02.2011 11:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

Has a filter been applied to that?

Stupid of me. Didn't even realize. Edited to a screenshot w/o a filter. My fault.
Anyways, as you can see, the atmosphere is bright orange (Look at the gases that are spouting out). Any bodies of water reflect the atmosphere, giving it its coloring.

  • 04.02.2011 12:00 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

Has a filter been applied to that?

Stupid of me. Didn't even realize. Edited to a screenshot w/o a filter. My fault.
Anyways, as you can see, the atmosphere is bright orange (Look at the gases that are spouting out). Any bodies of water reflect the atmosphere, giving it its coloring.

So the atmosphere is on fire but the land isn't burning at all? You would think a LARGE portion of the land would have to have been glassed for the gases in the atmosphere to ignite.

  • 04.02.2011 12:06 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Now in the new multiplayer map Condemned we get a far more thorough glassing of the planet depicted, as seen here. In which it is obvious that the entire surface of the planet is glassed. The way it has been traditionally viewed from the novels, or at least the way I always thought of it.

Has a filter been applied to that?

Stupid of me. Didn't even realize. Edited to a screenshot w/o a filter. My fault.
Anyways, as you can see, the atmosphere is bright orange (Look at the gases that are spouting out). Any bodies of water reflect the atmosphere, giving it its coloring.

So the atmosphere is on fire but the land isn't burning at all? You would think a LARGE portion of the land would have to have been glassed for the gases in the atmosphere to ignite.
The atmosphere is merely reflecting the land fires.

  • 04.02.2011 12:07 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

From what we can see on Condemned the land masses aren't burning, at least huge areas of them aren't. So what you're telling me is the entire atmosphere is reflecting small portions of the continents burning, which is in turn reflecting off of the oceans? That just doesn't make logical sense.

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:10 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
From what we can see on Condemned the land masses aren't burning, at least huge areas of them aren't. So what you're telling me is the entire atmosphere is reflecting small portions of the continents burning, which is in turn reflecting off of the oceans? That just doesn't make logical sense.
With a planet that only has 7 hundred million inhabitants, while larger than Earth, population centers would be distant.

Now, throw in military installations, you might get enough glassing areas to light up the skies. The water itself amplifies the orange skies.

In a sense, my earlier posting was incorrect. The skies are reflecting both the land fires, and the oceans. It all can be traced back to land fires, still.

If a certain areas skies turn orange, and if it's by a water source, it refracts between the skies and the water.


[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:18 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:15 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...

  • 04.02.2011 12:17 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:20 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:18 PM PDT

The difference isn't total vs partial, it's glassing vs burning. The entire planet gets burned, but only some parts get burned so badly they turn to glass.

  • 04.02.2011 12:19 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.


But if you look at that first screenshot it isn't even a significant portion of the planet that is burning. I don't think that would be enough to cause all the reflection you're talking about.
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.

  • 04.02.2011 12:21 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065

But if you look at that first screenshot it isn't even a significant portion of the planet that is burning. I don't think that would be enough to cause all the reflection you're talking about.
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.
Did you read the last part? The planet is a sphere, and has large portions of water. It doesn't need to have the one particular side to create this effect.

  • 04.02.2011 12:22 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Mutoid Log
The difference isn't total vs partial, it's glassing vs burning. The entire planet gets burned, but only some parts get burned so badly they turn to glass.

I don't think so. If the entire planet was burned/glassed we would see evidence of it in Condemned and the final view of Reach we have in the game. Instead it's only isolated pockets that are burning and on the rest of the planet we can still see the land forms and topography.

  • 04.02.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065

But if you look at that first screenshot it isn't even a significant portion of the planet that is burning. I don't think that would be enough to cause all the reflection you're talking about.
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.
Did you read the last part? The planet is a sphere, and has large portions of water. It doesn't need to have the one particular side to create this effect.

Yes I read it and you said it would require a "rather large portion" be burning. This doesn't look like a rather large portion. Wouldn't this reflection already have begun if that is as far as the planet was glassed?

  • 04.02.2011 12:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065

But if you look at that first screenshot it isn't even a significant portion of the planet that is burning. I don't think that would be enough to cause all the reflection you're talking about.
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Spartan1065
But you do see the flaw in that argument. The land is barely burning at all. You said yourself that the population centers were spread far apart and by the looks of the planets surface the Covenant didn't go for the complete surface glassing. So I just don't understand why things are so lit up...
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.
Did you read the last part? The planet is a sphere, and has large portions of water. It doesn't need to have the one particular side to create this effect.

Yes I read it and you said it would require a "rather large portion" be burning. This doesn't look like a rather large portion. Wouldn't this reflection already have begun if that is as far as the planet was glassed?
It should be adequate enough for a mild amount. Not quite the brightness of the second picture, but still. Physics fail.

Perhaps tthe map took place after the earlier picture?

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:32 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150
Here's an anology: Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. That would represent the land. Now, move the cursor at a diagonal angle until it reaches the top. That would be the sky, which is reflecting the fire from the land. Now, move the cursor back down diagonally. That would be the ocean, which is now reflecting the sky. Now, move the cursor back up siagonally until it reaches the top again. That is the sky which is reflecting the color of the ocean.

It doesn't require the land to be all burning, just a rather large portion of it. Sensse the planet is a sphere, and the oceans plentiful, it would only require a patch of it. It doesn't have to be on the same side, either.

The orange areas are largely areas of dark colors fringed by lines of brighter ones. That specific stuff isn't reflected, it's burning regions.

Light reflections typically don't wrap around planets all that much anyway; diffration sometimes extends a horizon a bit, but you don't usually wind up with gigantic pockets of bright light diffusedly reflecting off a localized area of one side of a planet due to a source on the other; it just doesn't make any sense.

If there are bright sources everywhere, you'll probably get some heavy specular and maybe some diffuse reflection off of water around the bright areas (which may very well be what some of the orange stuff is), but the bright stuff is definitely meant to represent scorched earth.

//======================

No, the real issue is that Bungie retconned the Covenant approach to invasion in Reach, while Certain Affinity built their maps on the classic model.

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:34 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:33 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Tupolev
Exactly my point. So which model are we going to accept as canon the vast majority of the planet is burned. Or are we going with only small portions of it are destroyed. Look at that we worked our way back to the original question.

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:36 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Tupolev
No, the real issue is that Bungie retconned the Covenant approach to invasion in Reach, while Certain Affinity built their maps on the classic model.
But the logistics required to do that sort of thing would be astronomical. The power input, the amount of ships required, etc. would require more than a mere 300 ships are capable of.

  • 04.02.2011 12:36 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Tupolev
No, the real issue is that Bungie retconned the Covenant approach to invasion in Reach, while Certain Affinity built their maps on the classic model.
But the logistics required to do that sort of thing would be astronomical. The power input, the amount of ships required, etc. would require more than a mere 300 ships are capable of.

Well it was retconned to be 700+ ships. But that's not really the point do we know how much power the Covenant ships power sources can generate? I'm not sure but the glassing beams are capable of burning huge swaths of land with hundreds of ships it is possible it would just take a long time.

[Edited on 04.02.2011 12:42 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2011 12:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Tupolev
No, the real issue is that Bungie retconned the Covenant approach to invasion in Reach, while Certain Affinity built their maps on the classic model.
But the logistics required to do that sort of thing would be astronomical. The power input, the amount of ships required, etc. would require more than a mere 300 ships are capable of.

Well it was retconned to be 700+ ships.
But that is still a problem. If, in the picture, the bright orange parts were actually molten lava, that would mean that the oceans would have to have been boiled away. That would require more energy than those ship weaponry can yield if you want that done in a few weeks, let alone a single day.

It would be far easier to glass the cities, set the forests on fires, melt the polar regions, and heat up the oceans just enough to cause mass extinctions of marine life.

  • 04.02.2011 12:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Tupolev
No, the real issue is that Bungie retconned the Covenant approach to invasion in Reach, while Certain Affinity built their maps on the classic model.
But the logistics required to do that sort of thing would be astronomical. The power input, the amount of ships required, etc. would require more than a mere 300 ships are capable of.


Also,if the amount of Reach previously thought was actually glassed, then I'm sorry but First Strike? wouldn't happen.

The admiral and the group of Spartans would be dead due to low atmosphere, and the planet life around the cave would be ashes, or completely dead.

Before they hinted at most of the planet being glassed, which would cause heavy affects to the non-glassed portions and the atmosphere.

  • 04.02.2011 12:47 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Hopefully you read my post after the edit. But anyway, I don't have the novels on me right now but I vaguely remember a description about glassing and the oceans being boiled away. However I have no proof as I don't have the novels in front of me.

  • 04.02.2011 12:48 PM PDT

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