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Subject: Why are most of the ships UNSC we see Frigates?

Correct me if i'm wrong but most of the UNSC vessels we see ingame are all Frigates with the exception of the PoA, And some of the Home/Harpers fleet.

Seriously seeing a Marathon class cruiser leading an attack with 5 Halcyon class cruisers following a UNSC carrier and a few destroyers and frigates right behind would be awesome.

Really makes UNSC look bad

  • 04.04.2011 7:27 AM PDT

Here's another question. Why are there more pawns in a chessboard that any other piece?

  • 04.04.2011 7:32 AM PDT

My guess would be the cruisers were destroyed early in the war, combined with the fact the UNSC had a frigate-heavy fleet before the war (frigates > cruisers when fighting inssurectionists planet-side) mean there are probably only a dozen left in the whole on UNSC controlled space.



  • 04.04.2011 7:35 AM PDT


Posted by: BlackKnightKanos
Here's another question. Why are there more pawns in a chessboard that any other piece?


Excellent!

  • 04.04.2011 7:42 AM PDT

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frigate=long ship with mac cannnon?
thats all i ever saw, (in exodus we saw civilian commercial spaceplanes actualy) in h3 when the portal opened and the keyship took off we saw tons of mac frigates, small big and huge, just like the elites

  • 04.04.2011 8:05 AM PDT


Posted by: Need2StopSmurfn
Correct me if i'm wrong but most of the UNSC vessels we see ingame are all Frigates with the exception of the PoA, And some of the Home/Harpers fleet.

Seriously seeing a Marathon class cruiser leading an attack with 5 Halcyon class cruisers following a UNSC carrier and a few destroyers and frigates right behind would be awesome.

Really makes UNSC look bad


A: Frigates are the most numerous UNSC ship.
B: Marathon's were actually pretty rare. Compared to the rest of the fleet there were few.
C: Halcyon class cruisers were also few. Their age meant only a few got put back into service. Most if not all were actually planned for dismantling before the war.

  • 04.04.2011 8:32 AM PDT
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Frigates were most cheapest option to produce for UNSC. They didn't expect that Covenant existed and started the war against them in early years.

Other most likely theory that majority of destroyers, cruisers and carriers were destroyed during the Human-Covenant War. After this war, I had reasonable belief that UNSC had about barely seventy to eighty ships left in their entire navy. (I'm using novels, halopedia and other sources to calculate total ships of their navy.)

This is estimated number of total UNSC ship in UNSC Navy is about four hundred to six hundred large. I'm not sure however. Covenant probably had more ships than UNSC but suffered heavy losses such as destruction of Unyielding Hierophant, with her 500-strong ship were wiped out, also Cole's last stand at Battle of Psi Serpentis, killing over 300 Covenant ships. Another is usage of NOVA bomb at Joyous Exultation, killing hundreds of ships.

All of this is simple theory. however. I'll look to this as soon I can figure out definitive total numbers of UNSC and Covenant Navy's combat ships. Plus, will describe more details on why UNSC had more frigates or destroyers than heavy-duty ships such as carriers or cruisers.

[Edited on 04.04.2011 10:00 AM PDT]

  • 04.04.2011 9:59 AM PDT

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Posted by: BlackKnightKanos
Here's another question. Why are there more pawns in a chessboard that any other piece?
Exactly.

  • 04.04.2011 10:20 AM PDT

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I was bumbed about this in Reach.

  • 04.04.2011 11:07 AM PDT

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Posted by: BlackKnightKanos
Here's another question. Why are there more pawns in a chessboard that any other piece?
This pretty much sums up the argument I was going to make.

Overall they are the best bang for the buck. I'm sure if they had known they would be facing an alien race with far superior ships they would have focused on creating much larger and more powerful ships to counter with but during the time they built most of the Navy fleet, Frigates made the most sense to produce in mass.

  • 04.04.2011 11:42 AM PDT

Taylor Gang! 420

The cruisers and Frigates were their main two ship types, it's on orbital lol

  • 04.04.2011 12:24 PM PDT

funny thing is, we have seen probably a tiny fraction of the ship classifications used by the navy. what are we missing that we have never actually seen, carrier, destroyer, super-carrier, corvettes, prowlers, the list goes on. also I don't consider the abomination that is Halo: Legends to be part of the Universe, plus the destroyer in that looks nothing like any other human ships we have seen, so balls with that.

think we might have seen a carrier potentially in the Halo: Arms Race trailer, since the ship at the start is neither a Halcyon or a Marathon (its just not, don't even debate this! the silhouette is totally different.) and they (there are indeed two of them, one in the foreground and one in the background/below the bigger one) which are very very very large vessels. would love to see Trafalgar to be honest, get the impression its very very long.

would love a thread with peoples thoughts on human ship classes and the way they look, maybe including user created models or sketches, would gladly upload some of my sketches! since this is a official forum does anyone know if there exist any actual concepts of what these vessels might look like? seems crazy to create a Universe without knowing what is in it...

  • 04.04.2011 4:32 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

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I have seen you future

The answer to your question is simple, frigates are cheap to produce.

The UNSC has a limited amount of the Titanium-A needed to make ships. Frigates are the cheapest way to get a MAC cannon out to the front lines. The logic behind this is that it is better to have ten frigates firing ten MACs instead of five larger ships firing five MAC cannons.

They have a large number of people, so the casualties are less of a concern for the UNSC high command. Unfortunately the high turnover rate is also why there are so few great ship captains, since most don't live long enough to get the experience.

  • 04.04.2011 4:39 PM PDT
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@ PLUT0NIUM 235

Considering the vast majority of the UNSC has yet to be fleshed out its not surprising that we haven't seen the other ship classes. I might make a thread to make the vehicles and ships to make the UNSC a true fighting force.

I was going to argue that its was a Marathon class in that trailer but after rewatching it I don't know what the hell that is. A repair-refit ship maybe. Kinda looked like it had a huge crane or something on top.



[Edited on 04.04.2011 4:54 PM PDT]

  • 04.04.2011 4:52 PM PDT
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I guess the bigger boys were just needed to fight above atmosphere. But also, marathon and halcyon cruisers aren't rated for atmosphere, and unfortunately, we didn't get to see much space action in the game.

  • 04.04.2011 4:53 PM PDT

modern navies are dominated by frigates as well, due to the lost cost yet high adaptability, they are the masters of flexibility, they are a good cost effective platform for any role you can really think of. same thing applies to the navy in Halo, the frigate is small, fast, cheap and surprisingly well armed when you think about it, they carry decent stock of Archer missiles, a MAC mounted down the spine of the ship, Shiva nuclear warheads and a fairly decent battery of defensive guns for either the suppression of enemy ordnance or enemy attack ships, plus we see them used in ground attack role as well. they also have a smaller cost in manpower required to operate them, quicker and cheaper refit/repair.

bit of a random thing about the Halo universe is their weird reliance on Titanium-A. anything can be used as armour, especially against something like plasma based weapons since nothing can survive direct exposure to high energy plasma, even diamond would vapourise on contact. so anything that acts as an ablative layer would do the job just fine.

  • 04.04.2011 5:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Nameless Oracle
@ PLUT0NIUM 235

Considering the vast majority of the UNSC has yet to be fleshed out its not surprising that we haven't seen the other ship classes. I might make a thread to make the vehicles and ships to make the UNSC a true fighting force.

I was going to argue that its was a Marathon class in that trailer but after rewatching it I don't know what the hell that is. A repair-refit ship maybe. Kinda looked like it had a huge crane or something on top.



go for it, would be an interesting thread for trying to 'fill out' the ranks of the UNSC navy, yeah they have some weird 'parts' on them, not just on the top but also on the bottom, personally thought they were carriers due to them being part of Sol Defence Group, which is where the majority of the capital ships were left, correct?

  • 04.04.2011 5:13 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
bit of a random thing about the Halo universe is their weird reliance on Titanium-A. anything can be used as armour, especially against something like plasma based weapons since nothing can survive direct exposure to high energy plasma, even diamond would vapourise on contact. so anything that acts as an ablative layer would do the job just fine.

Random trivia time, one of the huge ships (can't remember which one off the top of my head, maybe the supercarrier?) had armor which wasn't welded on. Instead they glued it on with epoxy. That way when it was hit with plasma the epoxy would melt and the armor would fall off, taking the plasma with it similarly to reactive armor on modern tanks.

Anyway, they should have made more armor like this, they could have used other materials and it would have made the ships much more durable.

  • 04.04.2011 5:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
bit of a random thing about the Halo universe is their weird reliance on Titanium-A. anything can be used as armour, especially against something like plasma based weapons since nothing can survive direct exposure to high energy plasma, even diamond would vapourise on contact. so anything that acts as an ablative layer would do the job just fine.

It probably has something to do with the strength to weight ratio, as their ships were designed to defend against human weapons. If their hulls were made out of cast iron clearly their ships would suffer in the maneuvering department.

  • 04.04.2011 5:27 PM PDT

yeah I agree, big fan of clever solutions to complicated problems. me and a mate are thinking of writing a sort of Halo: Re-imagined sort of document for the humans, trying to fill in all of the messes that appeared through the story, and putting our own view on things as well, trying to make them seem like a more capable and thought out fighting force, without un-balancing them against the Covenant.

titanium by itself isn't a great armour substance to be honest, would be better off using some sort of ceramic based armour, like the composite armour on modern tanks for example.

another interesting thought is magnetism, and how plasma is controlled using magnetism, its the only possible method of doing it. so an electro-magnetic armour would probably be more effective than any amount of titanium by dispersing the majority of the plasma rather than relying on ever thicker ablative armour, also plasma torpedoes could be destroyed in theory since they are in effect contained plasma, just need something that will nail whatever is being used to contain it.

  • 04.04.2011 5:34 PM PDT

Cruisers are very rare and expensive. As for Destroyers, would you rather have 2 guns on one ship or 2 guns on different ships?

  • 04.04.2011 5:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
titanium by itself isn't a great armour substance to be honest, would be better off using some sort of ceramic based armour, like the composite armour on modern tanks for example.

Unless of course the designation of "-A" is supposed to mean that it some super awesome enhanced futuristic version of our normal titanium we have today.


another interesting thought is magnetism, and how plasma is controlled using magnetism, its the only possible method of doing it. so an electro-magnetic armour would probably be more effective than any amount of titanium by dispersing the majority of the plasma rather than relying on ever thicker ablative armour, also plasma torpedoes could be destroyed in theory since they are in effect contained plasma, just need something that will nail whatever is being used to contain it.

Just doing some theorycrafting here, I think having armor plating with an EM field around it would probably disrupt to some degree the control over the plama blob, but the blob would be so close to the hull by that point that the momentum would carry most of the plasma into the hull anyway.

My approach would be to neutralize the heat energy in the plasma blob to a more harmless (gaseous) state. Something like a space fire hose if you will.

  • 04.04.2011 5:54 PM PDT

plasma by very definition is highly ionised, so the material itself is highly charged, hence why it is effected by magnetism. electro-magnetic armour wouldn't only mess with the containment of the plasma but it would mess with the actual plasma itself, imagine plasma was hugely positively charged it would be very difficult for it to come into contact with a surface that was also highly charged, effectively repelling the material like two magnets placed positive to positive. so provided it was executed well, the amount of plasma that actually gets into contact should be very small, least in theory.

  • 04.04.2011 6:08 PM PDT

http://bungie.me/sig/noble/Stealth+Fox74.png

i learned some really good advice.

"all technology is outdated at the beginning of a war"

So i bet Frigates were easy/fast to build and ready for new upgrades/weapons to use against the Covenant

However this is only infering and I can't prove myself right...

  • 04.04.2011 6:34 PM PDT

technology is always out-dated almost the instant it becomes available, look at modern computers as an example.

  • 04.04.2011 6:35 PM PDT

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