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  • Subject: The way I see book and Reach canon combined.....
Subject: The way I see book and Reach canon combined.....

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-The battle of Reach lasted from July to August.

-PoA was called in with the 60% of the UNSC fleet, as mentioned in BOTH the book and the beginning of Long Night of Solace.

-All of Noble Team, and probably some other Spartan IIIs, were extracted from the suicide companies Alpha and Beta because of their superior skills, as mentioned in Halopedia.

-EDIT- Halsey's journal states she incorrectly guessed Noble Team as Class II Spartan IIs, not IIIs. So that explains that.

-The Pillar of Autumn picked up Chief from his space mission THEN landed on Reach to retrieve the Cortana fragment from Noble Team, which explains the Chief/Linda in the cryo pod during the cutscene.

This is how I explain the supposed "broken canon" in the book and game, it's really quite reasonable. If I missed anything let me know.


[Edited on 04.07.2011 7:06 PM PDT]

  • 04.07.2011 6:57 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Except for the fact that it's physically impossible for the Autumn to be in atmosphere. Gravity turns Halcyons into tin foil, which is why the ship is so bent and f'd up in The Maw.

  • 04.07.2011 7:00 PM PDT

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Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Except for the fact that it's physically impossible for the Autumn to be in atmosphere. Gravity turns Halcyons into tin foil, which is why the ship is so bent and f'd up in The Maw.


Or you know...it got so bent and f'd up because it took several plasma rounds in space followed by a rough crash landing.

  • 04.07.2011 7:18 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Except for the fact that it's physically impossible for the Autumn to be in atmosphere. Gravity turns Halcyons into tin foil, which is why the ship is so bent and f'd up in The Maw.


Or you know...it got so bent and f'd up because it took several plasma rounds in space followed by a rough crash landing.
That, and what I posted.

  • 04.07.2011 7:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Chronicler 177

-The Pillar of Autumn picked up Chief from his space mission THEN landed on Reach to retrieve the Cortana fragment from Noble Team, which explains the Chief/Linda in the cryo pod during the cutscene.



Easter Egg, not canon.

Why the hell would they have a cryo tube sitting in the middle of a hanger?


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Except for the fact that it's physically impossible for the Autumn to be in atmosphere. Gravity turns Halcyons into tin foil, which is why the ship is so bent and f'd up in The Maw.


Or you know...it got so bent and f'd up because it took several plasma rounds in space followed by a rough crash landing.


They never say the PoA could not go into atmosphere that I remember.

Landing was probably assisted, and landing a ship that has no damage is MUCH different then a barely guided crash landing after taking severe damage.

"rated for atmosphere" is never explained either. My theory (which makes sense) is Rated for Atmosphere = can maneuver in atmosphere. Such as Frigates.

Larger ships can land and take off, but can do hardly anything else.

  • 04.07.2011 7:33 PM PDT
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I'm going to have to go with MegaMuffins argument here. Also the PoA was actually built in space because it cannot enter atmosphere.

  • 04.07.2011 9:49 PM PDT

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why would it(PoA) "crumple" in atmosphere, it is just 1G, not like huge gravity or anything

  • 04.07.2011 10:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I'm going to have to go with MegaMuffins argument here. Also the PoA was actually built in space because it cannot enter atmosphere.

Same here. PoA has no powerful thrusters under it. If it went to atmosphere it would just drop and crash because maneuvering thrusters are never designed to fight against gravity. Landing on Halo in such a good shape is a miracle. Keyes probably got a very small landing angle somehow. Landing a Halcyon class ship is possible but then getting it back to space is impossible and that landing won't be very good either.

Posted by: mihir
why would it(PoA) "crumple" in atmosphere, it is just 1G, not like huge gravity or anything

It wouldn't necessarily crumple but the supporting structures would get some serious damage. Then as I said it would have no way of slowing down as it has no thrusters that are powerful enough to fight against gravity. It would just crash against the surface of the planet.

[Edited on 04.07.2011 10:15 PM PDT]

  • 04.07.2011 10:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Chronicler 177
-The battle of Reach lasted from July to August.

-PoA was called in with the 60% of the UNSC fleet, as mentioned in BOTH the book and the beginning of Long Night of Solace.

-All of Noble Team, and probably some other Spartan IIIs, were extracted from the suicide companies Alpha and Beta because of their superior skills, as mentioned in Halopedia.

-EDIT- Halsey's journal states she incorrectly guessed Noble Team as Class II Spartan IIs, not IIIs. So that explains that.

-The Pillar of Autumn picked up Chief from his space mission THEN landed on Reach to retrieve the Cortana fragment from Noble Team, which explains the Chief/Linda in the cryo pod during the cutscene.

This is how I explain the supposed "broken canon" in the book and game, it's really quite reasonable. If I missed anything let me know.


1. That would make the covenant far too weak and the UNSC far too strong if they could hold out for a month with no MACs or fleets. I understand skirmishes on the ground that lasted for a week or two after the covenant had control of the planet, but anything else would be wrong.

2. Last time i checked the PoA was on reach to get fitted for it's new mission, meaning it was already there. That would be fine in the game if it was on an orbital station, not a drydock.

3.What space mission? Game wise there was nothing in orbit along with the fact chief being in cryo was an easter egg.

  • 04.08.2011 6:55 AM PDT

Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.

  • 04.08.2011 7:02 AM PDT


Posted by: HaloFan9795
Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.


I'd agree with the first part. Nothing said about an assisted landing.

Anybody have a link to the quote about the Halcyon being unable to enter atmosphere?

Also, when the hell did Reach state there was no orbital defenses? Oh right, never. They even talk about them twice in the campaign. Kat makes the comment there had to be a MAC which could hit the Corvette, and in tip of the spear Dot refers to the Covenant attacking a territory, including orbital defenses.

If I remember, all the SMACs were in one location. LNOS most likely took place, not at that location. Anchor Nine looked like a frigate construction shipyard, and the supercarrier wasn't in LoS of the SMAC station, or else they would have used those.

[Edited on 04.08.2011 7:36 AM PDT]

  • 04.08.2011 7:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: HaloFan9795
Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.



If I remember, all the SMACs were in one location. LNOS most likely took place, not at that location. Anchor Nine looked like a frigate construction shipyard, and the supercarrier wasn't in LoS of the SMAC station, or else they would have used those.


Im done arguing about the MACs since i have been repeating the same lines for the past 3 days.

even if we didn't see MACs we should have seen other orbital stations in orbit. all i found was 1 sat behind Anchor 9

  • 04.08.2011 7:41 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: HaloFan9795
Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.



If I remember, all the SMACs were in one location. LNOS most likely took place, not at that location. Anchor Nine looked like a frigate construction shipyard, and the supercarrier wasn't in LoS of the SMAC station, or else they would have used those.


Im done arguing about the MACs since i have been repeating the same lines for the past 3 days.

even if we didn't see MACs we should have seen other orbital stations in orbit. all i found was 1 sat behind Anchor 9


Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?

  • 04.08.2011 7:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: HaloFan9795
Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.



If I remember, all the SMACs were in one location. LNOS most likely took place, not at that location. Anchor Nine looked like a frigate construction shipyard, and the supercarrier wasn't in LoS of the SMAC station, or else they would have used those.


Im done arguing about the MACs since i have been repeating the same lines for the past 3 days.

even if we didn't see MACs we should have seen other orbital stations in orbit. all i found was 1 sat behind Anchor 9


Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


No, even thought i would like to say yes.

The use of realistic logic isn't going to hold up here, the point is that MACs and other orbital stations played a large role in the battle. So while they did throw in referances to the book with highlands and the radio transmissions; Letting us see 1 MAC or sometype of orbital station would have please both fans.


From so unless there was an issue with putting a mac in the game there really isn't a reason to why it shouldn't be in the game other than bungie didn't put them in for a bungie reason

  • 04.08.2011 7:53 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: HaloFan9795
Remember those yellow thrusters on the bottom of the PoA it uses to take off, and then drops? Those were probably fitted in space and are specially designed thrusters to allow large ships to land and take off.

Anyways, wouldn't it have been more efficient to take the Cortana fragment to the PoA in a Sabre rather than having it land? Hell, Bungie could have made the game way more epic.



If I remember, all the SMACs were in one location. LNOS most likely took place, not at that location. Anchor Nine looked like a frigate construction shipyard, and the supercarrier wasn't in LoS of the SMAC station, or else they would have used those.


Im done arguing about the MACs since i have been repeating the same lines for the past 3 days.

even if we didn't see MACs we should have seen other orbital stations in orbit. all i found was 1 sat behind Anchor 9


Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


Yes, nobody in their right mind fights a 2-dimensional battle on a 3-dimensional battlefield. It's destined to fail.

Complete spherical coverage with focus at expected attack routes (like the leading edge of an outer planet, or any moons, an ever changing defensive pattern) is the only way defensive sattelites can be effective.
Fleets stationed within combat distance of orbital facilities as well as being stationed throughout the system is also a must in intra-system warfare.



[Edited on 04.08.2011 7:55 AM PDT]

  • 04.08.2011 7:54 AM PDT

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


Sorry for the upcoming words.

No. -blam!-. Sherlock!

If you're gonna focus all your defense in one spot when defending a planet,you have to be the dumbest motha-blam!- out there.

I don't think an explanation why would be required.

  • 04.08.2011 7:59 AM PDT

Oh hey there

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Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


Sorry for the upcoming words.

No. -blam!-. Sherlock!

If you're gonna focus all your defense in one spot when defending a planet,you have to be the dumbest motha-blam!- out there.

I don't think an explanation why would be required.

Otherwise the Covenant would have this conversation.

Shipmaster 1: Oh man look at that cluster of MAC guns over that one part of the planet. That looks dangerous.

Shipmaster 2: Yeah we should just go to the other side where there are no MAC guns. How stupid are these Humans?

  • 04.08.2011 8:04 AM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


Sorry for the upcoming words.

No. -blam!-. Sherlock!

If you're gonna focus all your defense in one spot when defending a planet,you have to be the dumbest motha-blam!- out there.

I don't think an explanation why would be required.


Yet the book you all are heralding as the better form of the battle of Reach had all the planet defenses on a single point of the planet's orbit.

The Covenant jumped in on that side of the system and advanced. So by the logic of "If there weren't defenses on all side, that's retarded." that makes the book's version of the battle equally retarded doesn't it?

  • 04.08.2011 8:36 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Because Reach had to be completely surrounded by stations?


Sorry for the upcoming words.

No. -blam!-. Sherlock!

If you're gonna focus all your defense in one spot when defending a planet,you have to be the dumbest motha-blam!- out there.

I don't think an explanation why would be required.


Yet the book you all are heralding as the better form of the battle of Reach had all the planet defenses on a single point of the planet's orbit.

The Covenant jumped in on that side of the system and advanced. So by the logic of "If there weren't defenses on all side, that's retarded." that makes the book's version of the battle equally retarded doesn't it?


I hereby title you the winner here.

Everyone, myself included, gets so involved in arguing the point in hand, Reach, that they forget that the rest of Halo is riddled with plot holes too.

  • 04.08.2011 8:49 AM PDT

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In order to get the PoA inside Reach would require such an effort and it would be impossible, since Reach's space was crowded with UNSC/Covenant engagements. If the Spartan red-team was targeted in their pelican in their inbound insertion, the PoA which is 100 times bigger would have been an easy juicy target while it's own and careful insertion to Reach.

Probably wouldn't have made it intact.

[Edited on 04.08.2011 11:44 AM PDT]

  • 04.08.2011 11:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: MasterSin
In order to get the PoA inside Reach would require such an effort and it would be impossible, since Reach's space was crowded with UNSC/Covenant engagements. If the Spartan red-team was targeted in their pelican in their inbound insertion, the PoA which is 100 times bigger would have been an easy juicy target while it's own and careful insertion to Reach.

Probably wouldn't have made it intact.


The PoA is probably not going to be taken down by any other than a Covenant super carrier in a 1v1 situation.

  • 04.08.2011 11:50 AM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

Posted by: Chronicler 177
-The battle of Reach lasted from July to August.

-PoA was called in with the 60% of the UNSC fleet, as mentioned in BOTH the book and the beginning of Long Night of Solace.

-All of Noble Team, and probably some other Spartan IIIs, were extracted from the suicide companies Alpha and Beta because of their superior skills, as mentioned in Halopedia.

-EDIT- Halsey's journal states she incorrectly guessed Noble Team as Class II Spartan IIs, not IIIs. So that explains that.

-The Pillar of Autumn picked up Chief from his space mission THEN landed on Reach to retrieve the Cortana fragment from Noble Team, which explains the Chief/Linda in the cryo pod during the cutscene.

This is how I explain the supposed "broken canon" in the book and game, it's really quite reasonable. If I missed anything let me know.


I like it. Very reasonable. I would also like to propose that a massive Halcyon Class Cruiser can stand a little bit of Gravity if it can take full on plasma rounds from a CCS Class Covenant Cruiser. Besides, what's game is canon.

[Edited on 04.08.2011 11:59 AM PDT]

  • 04.08.2011 11:57 AM PDT

the most im willing to lean as for as the dates go is that fighting went on for a week or two. kind of like winter contingency, not many people know about it and ONI is trying to keep it a secret.

  • 04.08.2011 12:50 PM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: MasterSin
In order to get the PoA inside Reach would require such an effort and it would be impossible, since Reach's space was crowded with UNSC/Covenant engagements. If the Spartan red-team was targeted in their pelican in their inbound insertion, the PoA which is 100 times bigger would have been an easy juicy target while it's own and careful insertion to Reach.

Probably wouldn't have made it intact.


The PoA is probably not going to be taken down by any other than a Covenant super carrier in a 1v1 situation.

Either way, the Master Chief was on the POA at the time.
And the MC has LUCK

  • 04.08.2011 1:03 PM PDT

Look,

'Rated for atmosphere' very probably means a halcyon lacks the reactionless drives that allow a frigate to just hover there over land all day like you see multiple times during halo 3 and reach, which is why the autumn is seen taking off assisted by HUGE yellow booster things until it can get the nose pointed upwards and crank up the main engines to power into space.

And Halcyons are VERY stout tough ships as stated in TFOR, or did everyone not notice the huge crossbraces in nearly every corridor running through the decks of the Autumns superstructure in the very first level? Also the fact that Keys was able to land the Autumn on alpha halo WITHOUT atmospheric boosters and have it look to be mostly intact in shape is a testament to how tough Halcyons are, compare and contrast with the state of the flood controlled reactionless drive equipped CCS class which crashed in Mombasa during halo 3......the wreckage was unrecognisable.

  • 04.08.2011 1:10 PM PDT