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This topic has moved here: Subject: "Good Gun Spartan, Send a Pelican to Pickup N6"
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Subject: "Good Gun Spartan, Send a Pelican to Pickup N6"

Space drydock meaning the PoA shouldn't be able to land. The rockets on the underside retcon this.

  • 04.09.2011 2:26 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Emile's failure to check his motion tracker? You don't know what you are talking about. The second elite dropped onto the gun, while the phantom was overheard. The drop wouldn't have been seen due to the phantom being a bigger blip overtop of the zealot.

When the zealot advanced, it moved slow enough to not appear on the motion tracker (trust me, I've done it ingame where if you walk slowly without crouching, you won't pop up.)

Carter's stupid decisions and bad piloting? What?

Not enough development of the field marshall..and how the hell would we get development on him bar Covenant-side missions or dedicated cutscenes? Elites aren't really the type to kill somebody and do a big speech before running off.

space drydock... and that means?

Okay, so because the 'latchkey' data from the Forerunner structure was just added to the canon and WASN'T talked about anywhere else means it's retarded right? So then Grey team is retarded since they appeared in Cole Protocol, and have never been referenced since.

And what would you do if you learned that those two helped write the campaign(Which they probably did if they are part of the campaign/writing team.)? Freak out more? Accept that the campaign fits into canon in ways we don't fully understand due to not having the HSB?

So why didn't Emile shoot down the Phantom in the first place? Or for that matter, why did he only shoot down a single one throughout that entire segment of the mission?

Emile should've been more aware. He's a CQB specialist.

In order to have been wounded the way Carter was, he must've flown straight into AA fire. Either way, why is it that none of the Pelicans seen are armed with missile racks in situations where they'd be useful? Seeing how rockets can bring down Scarabs in Halo 3, all he'd need to do is disable it temporarily.

What's wrong with dedicated cutscenes? Bungie should've gone to the way they did Halo 2.

Space drydock. Why would they ever need to refit or land a ship planetside, especially one like the PoA? Try reading this. Also, PoA never landed on Reach. This was a blatant retcon without any explanation.

Grey team was secondary canon, meaning books. This latchkey, however, is not mentioned in the previous four games, nor any of the books, so evidence points to it not existing in the HSB.

As for the last bit, no, I'd expect an explanation for why they'd blatantly ignore the story they'd written together a decade ago.

[Edited on 04.09.2011 2:31 PM PDT]

  • 04.09.2011 2:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Slade
-The whole "fragment of Cortana" was an ass-pull, as was the "latchkey" artifact that was never mentioned before and is never mentioned again. Why make up this stuff then try to insert it into canon when they had so much similar prior canon to work with?


One could argue that the Forerunner Crystal under Castle base is the same sort of thing, an ass-pull to get the protagonists out safely. We know nearly as much about the Crystal as we do the Latchkey Artifact.

-Noble Team's exaggerated importance throughout the entire campaign, but here especially.

I never got the impression that Noble Team was any more important than any other Spartans or Spartan team. The only time they were really very important was when they were given charge of delivering Cortana to the Autumn. Other than that, they are no more, and no less, important than other Spartan team.

-Jun falls into a plot hole and is never seen again.

He is given charge of escorting Halsey to Castle base, that is not a plot hole, it's just as much a plot hole as Johnson's encounter with the Flood in CE.

-Carter's stupid decisions and bad piloting.

Lol, wat? I'm sorry, but you'll have to be way more specific than that, I saw no stupid decisions or bad piloting.

-Emile's failure to check his radar without any lampshading on the matter.

DaeFaron gave an adequate answer to this, adequate enough for me and I trust DaeFaron's judgment. Plus, even if you know someone is there and right behind you, you try whipping around instantaneously before your opponent gets you.

-Noble 6's choice to go down with the metaphorical ship.

There was little choice to be made, after Emile died, someone would have had to man the gun, and a Marine couldn't have fought his way up to it, nor could a squad of marines have done it even if everyone of them on the Pelican went. And even if they did go, it would still be Six alone at the end and manning the gun. I see nothing wrong with Six's sacrifice, it's what any Spartan would have done.

-Not enough development of the Field Marshall from Winter Contingency, the one that also killed Kat and is finally confronted and killed by 6 by the Onager. He could've been a cool Zuka 'Zamamee-style nemesis for Noble 6, but he's left undeveloped like the rest of the characters.

There is absolutely no proof, in game or from Bungie (that I know of) that there was only one Field Marshall dogging Noble throughout the game. There's not even proof that Field Marshalls are a rank of few numbers or that there would only be one on Reach. And if it is meant to be the same one all throughout the game, then it would have been made more obvious, he would have had dialogue and made obviously set apart from all other Zealots.

-Never seeing Holland. He's just a voice you hear over the radio with no insight regarding his motives or other aspects of a good character. Also, why didn't we get to see or even hear mention of the BAMF that is Col. Stanforth?

You do see Holland, in the first cutscene his picture is up on the monitor while Carter speaks with him, and as for the rest of the time, Noble Team is not really in positions where there would be video equipment to speak face to face with Holland.

-"Space drydock."

Again, You are going to have to be more specific than that if you want to make a point.

All the story in this game accomplished was taking a few archetypes from TFoR, recycling them horribly with underdeveloped characters of exaggerated significance all for the sake of crapping over the previous canon.

I agree that Noble Team's characterization could have used more work, but an FPS is not the best genre for getting the sort of characterization people hating on Reach's characters are desiring. Noble Team are just as developed as any of the characters in any of the other Halo games.

  • 04.09.2011 7:20 PM PDT

I always thought it was odd that the Pillar didn't play a more active role in her own defense. I understand she couldn't use her MAC, but it would seem to me her Archer missile pods were facing the Covenant cruiser. At the very least she could use her autocannons to help you against all those G-D Phantoms and Banshees!

  • 04.09.2011 7:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
So why didn't Emile shoot down the Phantom in the first place? Or for that matter, why did he only shoot down a single one throughout that entire segment of the mission?

Emile should've been more aware. He's a CQB specialist.


Um, did you not see how it flew in?

It came up in a blindspot, flew directly over the pelicans, and swung behind it. Emile was focused on the cruiser as ordered, as it'd have a small opening to bring down.

This latchkey, however, is not mentioned in the previous four games, nor any of the books, so evidence points to it not existing in the HSB.

Evidence doesn't point to anything. We don't know what all is in the halo story bible.

  • 04.09.2011 7:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Nomanisat
I always thought it was odd that the Pillar didn't play a more active role in her own defense. I understand she couldn't use her MAC, but it would seem to me her Archer missile pods were facing the Covenant cruiser. At the very least she could use her autocannons to help you against all those G-D Phantoms and Banshees!


Archer missiles are useless when the shields are up. That's why Keyes told you to hold fire, you couldn't scratch it because the shields were up until they dropped it to prepare the energy projector.

The autocannons/normal guns were firing, on the phantoms and banshees around the ship.

  • 04.09.2011 8:01 PM PDT

They had to get Master Chief out of there.

  • 04.09.2011 8:03 PM PDT

The Pillar carrier 7800 Archers, what were they saving them for? It's not like they're paying for them. At the very least they might have slowed the cruiser down.

And even if they were ineffective against the shields, they could time the impacts to coincide with the cruiser dropping it's shields to fire. It's not like the shields came down for an instant when they fired, they were down for a goodly long while.

At the very least, rig those puppies for airbust and start launching them into formations of Phantoms, give me a hand as I'm busting my butt to help you escape.

[Edited on 04.09.2011 8:10 PM PDT]

  • 04.09.2011 8:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Nomanisat
The Pillar carrier 7800 Archers, what were they saving them for? It's not like they're paying for them. At the very least they might have slowed the cruiser down.

And even if they were ineffective against the shields, they could time the impacts to coincide with the cruiser dropping it's shields to fire. It's not like the shields came down for an instant when they fired, they were down for a goodly long while.

At the very least, rig those puppies for airbust and start launching them into formations of Phantoms, give me a hand as I'm busting my butt to help you escape.


If they waited for shields to drop, guess what?

You've would have had them impacting as the mass driver fired.

If they 'airburst them' on the phantoms attacking you, they have the chance of damaging the mass driver.

  • 04.09.2011 8:22 PM PDT

So what if they were impacting at the same time as Onager round, what's more deadly? MAC round, or MAC round + high explosive warheads?

And it's true, setting the missiles for airburst ran the risk of damaging the gun, but experiance shows that the gun was pretty tough, surviving the bombardment of numerous Phantoms.

And while it seems callous, Keyes mission was to get the Autumn of that planet and into space to complete the mission. the survival of N6 was secondary to that.

BTW, please don't think I'm being snippy or trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to spur debate.

  • 04.09.2011 8:35 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Nomanisat
So what if they were impacting at the same time as Onager round, what's more deadly? MAC round, or MAC round + high explosive warheads?

And it's true, setting the missiles for airburst ran the risk of damaging the gun, but experiance shows that the gun was pretty tough, surviving the bombardment of numerous Phantoms.

And while it seems callous, Keyes mission was to get the Autumn of that planet and into space to complete the mission. the survival of N6 was secondary to that.

BTW, please don't think I'm being snippy or trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to spur debate.


Experience also shows that my Spartan will die if it falls more than ten meters.....

  • 04.09.2011 8:37 PM PDT

... I'm sorry you've lost me. Who's falling where?

  • 04.09.2011 8:43 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Nomanisat
... I'm sorry you've lost me. Who's falling where?


The Spartan, off a cliff or any other elevated place.

  • 04.09.2011 9:01 PM PDT

I understood that part, I just wondered what that had to do with Archer missiles and Onager survivability.

  • 04.09.2011 9:16 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Nomanisat
I understood that part, I just wondered what that had to do with Archer missiles and Onager survivability.


Well you said that the Onager would probably manage to withstand the Archer missiles due to it surviving a phantom bombardment but it's just for gameplay purposes just like how Spartans die if they fall more than 10 meters or withstand things that would kill them otherwise, like Wraith shots in the game. In real (book) life the Onager would had been turned into a molten heap with the first strikes of the phantoms, same with the Spartans.

  • 04.09.2011 9:19 PM PDT

Ah, gotcha. Totally correct on all accounts. Just for the record however, I wasn't suggesting they detonate the Archers 3 feet from the gun. Presumably the majority of the dropships were comming from the cruiser. I would set the missiles to detonate just outside its hager bays, as close to the sheild as I could.

  • 04.09.2011 9:24 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Nomanisat
Ah, gotcha. Totally correct on all accounts. Just for the record however, I wasn't suggesting they detonate the Archers 3 feet from the gun. Presumably the majority of the dropships were comming from the cruiser. I would set the missiles to detonate just outside its hager bays, as close to the sheild as I could.


The dropships where coming from all directions both at the Mass Driver and at the Autumn. Not to mention that you don't see any dropships physically come from the cruiser either to harass either UNSC targets. So deterring any dropships that do come from the cruiser's hanger would be a moot point.

  • 04.09.2011 10:04 PM PDT

I am a penguin. Every day I boogie on down to the water, and eat fish. Once, while fishing in the deepest depths, I saw great Cthulhu... And he said to me "Shine, to thine own self be true. They can't tell you what to do once you've gone guru." Also, I should tell you, "slide".

Inventor of the Bombstache avatar!

Brilliant! Why didn't they think to sit and wait for another pelican to pick up 6... with lots of banshees and phantoms floating around... Ready and able to board the Autumn... Or kill any ships they sent out...

:/

  • 04.09.2011 11:12 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

I personally find it surprising that the Mass Driver cannon couldn't be controlled by.... oh I don't know.... a military grade AI.

Also... why didnt the PoA use its previously active point defense weaponry to protect Noble Six.... or send out a wing of Longswords to help out.

The strange plotholes and puzzling moments in Reach just further solidify the idea, in my mind at least, that Halo Reach has an extremely weak storyline.

[Edited on 04.09.2011 11:42 PM PDT]

  • 04.09.2011 11:40 PM PDT

hi

why didnt they drop him off at the cannon? or give him a saber to catch up?

  • 04.10.2011 1:40 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: adaben
why didnt they drop him off at the cannon? or give him a saber to catch up?


I know right, its obvious that Sabers grow in trees, so they can just pick one and skip the hundreds of enemy aircraft without a scratch.

  • 04.10.2011 1:44 AM PDT

hi


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: adaben
why didnt they drop him off at the cannon? or give him a saber to catch up?


I know right, its obvious that Sabers grow in trees, so they can just pick one and skip the hundreds of enemy aircraft without a scratch.
hes got more chance than just saying there.

  • 04.17.2011 2:27 AM PDT

i was expecting a more classic aproach to the last level, and by that i mean THE VERY CRUCIAL WARTHOG RUN!!!!

  • 04.17.2011 6:07 AM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
I personally find it surprising that the Mass Driver cannon couldn't be controlled by.... oh I don't know.... a military grade AI.

Also... why didnt the PoA use its previously active point defense weaponry to protect Noble Six.... or send out a wing of Longswords to help out.

The strange plotholes and puzzling moments in Reach just further solidify the idea, in my mind at least, that Halo Reach has an extremely weak storyline.


"We rigged up a mass driver outside"

IE the onager hadnt been there very long and was jury rigged into place to protect the autumn, this also suggests the autumns descent and docking was a last minuite occurence and was not planned. Sort of like if they had to go and pick up something very important you know.....

Also, its worth mentioning that this whole "Latchkey" thing not being mentioned anywhere else ever is because the word latchkey was just something that DR. Sorvad would personally use to refer to a very important discovery of any type, And halsey knew sorvad and knew this was his "OMG" word. Its possible that its also a codeword between sorvad and halsey if im remembering the journal right.

Latckey isnt some sort of officialy official designation for a huge artifact discovery or something. Its just a word some dude uses when he finds something cool.

  • 04.17.2011 9:00 AM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

Posted by: jokamo b
i was expecting a more classic aproach to the last level, and by that i mean THE VERY CRUCIAL WARTHOG RUN!!!!


I'll be honest. I missed the Warthog run.

  • 04.17.2011 9:20 AM PDT

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