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This topic has moved here: Subject: One thing that bugged me about the POA's departure.
  • Subject: One thing that bugged me about the POA's departure.
Subject: One thing that bugged me about the POA's departure.

I understand Bungie had to do a lot of retconning for Reach, but there's one thing I couldn't handle. In the FoR book, the POA was just about to launch it's top secret mission when they hear a distress call saying that the Covenant has found Reach and calls all ships back to fight, where the POA is almost destroyed and flees, eventually finding Halo.

Now however, the battle on Reach has raged for almost a month by the time the POA departs. As it stands now, after Noble team sacrafices everything in order to get the Cortana fragment to the POA, she takes off, turns back and is almost destroyed!

Another thing: why would the UNSC fleet even bother to fight at this point? In the book the Covenant fleet manages to track a Human ship back and follow. When they arrive the planet and the fleet is intact. But in the game by August 30 the planet has been pretty much lost anyway. It would seem prudent to cut your losses and retreat.

  • 04.10.2011 7:20 AM PDT

It's one GIANT MASSIVE plot hole!

  • 04.10.2011 7:27 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.

*facedesk* i think the auturm was in for repairs after it just destroyed that covie super cruiser...

Your acting as though the last level on reach is the start of the invasion...

  • 04.10.2011 8:17 AM PDT

The Pillar is not in for repairs, she's being refitted for her mission. And in the book FoR August 30 was when the invasion started. The POA had just left on her mission when the Covenant fleet finds Reach. But in the game the battle has been raging for almost a month.

She couldn't be in for repairs after destroying the Super Cruiser, as there wouldn't have been a repair yard to use, the Covenant destroyed the UNSC fleet and glassed the planet.

[Edited on 04.10.2011 8:25 AM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 8:23 AM PDT

This^

In the book, the PoA is near the edge of the system, ready to leave when she gets called back to help reach.

But the problem is, if Reach had been under attack since July, the PoA would never have left on her 'Secret' mission, She would have stayed to fight at Reach after getting repaired.

  • 04.10.2011 8:27 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: Nomanisat

She couldn't be in for repairs after destroying the Super Cruiser, as there wouldn't have been a repair yard to use, the Covenant destroyed the UNSC fleet and glassed the planet.

???
I swear to god it says the auturm was in for repairs...
It got hit 2 times by the super cruisers main gun. no way could it just have fought on... It would have had to go for reapirs...

  • 04.10.2011 8:30 AM PDT

I imagine that since Reach had been under attack since July, the importance of the POA's mission could only increase. One cruiser more wouldn't have made a difference, Reach would have fallen regardless. I always thought that Keyes should have ignored the distress call and continued with his mission, especially since he knew that the planet was lost.

  • 04.10.2011 8:36 AM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
This^

In the book, the PoA is near the edge of the system, ready to leave when she gets called back to help reach.

But the problem is, if Reach had been under attack since July, the PoA would never have left on her 'Secret' mission, She would have stayed to fight at Reach after getting repaired.


The invasion of Reach didn't happen until AFTER LNOS. (The july encounters were scouting forces who were not attacking the entire planet)

Even then, on the 30th is when the fleet of particular justice arrived and destroyed the defenses.

  • 04.10.2011 8:37 AM PDT

???
I swear to god it says the Autumn was in for repairs...
It got hit 2 times by the super cruisers main gun. no way could it just have fought on... It would have had to go for repairs...


It was only because of her upgraded and the inherent toughness of the Halcyon class that allowed her to survive. It's stated at the beginning of the book The Flood that she was severely damaged as she was fleeing from Reach.

  • 04.10.2011 8:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Nomanisat
I imagine that since Reach had been under attack since July, the importance of the POA's mission could only increase. One cruiser more wouldn't have made a difference, Reach would have fallen regardless. I always thought that Keyes should have ignored the distress call and continued with his mission, especially since he knew that the planet was lost.


Besides the fact he was an officer who obeyed orders? Especially one that said "whatever you are doing, no matter how important, is scrapped and you are ordered to return to Reach and defend the planet.

  • 04.10.2011 8:50 AM PDT

I'm fully aware why he did it, I'm just saying he shouldn't have done it. It made no difference, and in the end all it did was get most of the remaining Spartan IIs killed and the POA severely damaged.

They could fix my problems with the story very simply: change it slightly, so that the POA departs the planet during the arrival of the Covenant fleet, not before. It would become severely damaged trying to run the blockade.

[Edited on 04.10.2011 9:10 AM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 8:55 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Perhaps the Autumn was among that 60% of the UNSC fleet en route to Reach that Dot mentions in the opening to LNoS?

  • 04.10.2011 1:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
It's one GIANT MASSIVE plot hole!
There's a massive plothole in the book that makes absolutely no-sense.

If the Supercruiser outranged the SMAC's, why didn't fire upon them? Why send troops groundside to destroy the generators if it had the full capability of punching a huge--blam!- in Reach's defences?

  • 04.10.2011 1:20 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
It's one GIANT MASSIVE plot hole!
There's a massive plothole in the book that makes absolutely no-sense.

If the Supercruiser outranged the SMAC's, why didn't fire upon them? Why send troops groundside to destroy the generators if it had the full capability of punching a huge--blam!- in Reach's defences?


It was out of range of the SMACs, but simultaneously the SMACs were out of range of the cruiser's weapons. The UNSC ships on the other hand were still within its "sniping" range.

  • 04.10.2011 1:49 PM PDT

Well, the way I see the events at the end of the story playing out is the Autumn going down to pick up the fragment after it's picked up Chief, Linda's body, and the marines from wiping the Circumference of its NAV data. I came to that conclusion by looking at the time stamps, both in TFoR and in Reach. The last level of Reach is later in the afternoon of the 30th, and before that level it was in space aiding and taking part in the space battle.

  • 04.10.2011 1:49 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
It's one GIANT MASSIVE plot hole!
There's a massive plothole in the book that makes absolutely no-sense.

If the Supercruiser outranged the SMAC's, why didn't fire upon them? Why send troops groundside to destroy the generators if it had the full capability of punching a huge--blam!- in Reach's defences?


It was out of range of the SMACs, but simultaneously the SMACs were out of range of the cruiser's weapons. The UNSC ships on the other hand were still within its "sniping" range.
That still leaves a Plothole.

That means that the UNSC is too stupid to stay close to their main source of protection.

We know that the UNSC have mastered the art of war-built upon thousands of generations of human beings who fought for religion, justice, and basic necessities. So why did they have a "Herpdy Derp" Moment and forgot about basic tactics?

  • 04.10.2011 1:55 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
It's one GIANT MASSIVE plot hole!
There's a massive plothole in the book that makes absolutely no-sense.

If the Supercruiser outranged the SMAC's, why didn't fire upon them? Why send troops groundside to destroy the generators if it had the full capability of punching a huge--blam!- in Reach's defences?


It was out of range of the SMACs, but simultaneously the SMACs were out of range of the cruiser's weapons. The UNSC ships on the other hand were still within its "sniping" range.
That still leaves a Plothole.

That means that the UNSC is too stupid to stay close to their main source of protection.

We know that the UNSC have mastered the art of war-built upon thousands of generations of human beings who fought for religion, justice, and basic necessities. So why did they have a "Herpdy Derp" Moment and forgot about basic tactics?


Yeah, good point, they were all gathered or sticking damn close to the SMACs IIRC, and if the Super Cruiser could snipe the ships, why couldn't it snipe the SMACs too?

  • 04.10.2011 2:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
This^

In the book, the PoA is near the edge of the system, ready to leave when she gets called back to help reach.

But the problem is, if Reach had been under attack since July, the PoA would never have left on her 'Secret' mission, She would have stayed to fight at Reach after getting repaired.


The invasion of Reach didn't happen until AFTER LNOS. (The july encounters were scouting forces who were not attacking the entire planet)

Even then, on the 30th is when the fleet of particular justice arrived and destroyed the defenses.

Right. Scouting forces. Scouting forces that somehow managed to destroy the entire fleet at Reach?

Carter specifically says; "All our nukes were either launched or went down with the ships that carried them."

Look at the cutscene, for cripes sake. Noble team is huddled in a cave hiding from scarabs. There's some serious plot holes here.

  • 04.10.2011 2:37 PM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
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-RuN...-


Posted by: EchoGamer

The invasion of Reach didn't happen until AFTER LNOS. (The july encounters were scouting forces who were not attacking the entire planet)

Even then, on the 30th is when the fleet of particular justice arrived and destroyed the defenses.[/quote]
Right. Scouting forces. Scouting forces that somehow managed to destroy the entire fleet at Reach?

Carter specifically says; "All our nukes were either launched or went down with the ships that carried them."

Look at the cutscene, for cripes sake. Noble team is huddled in a cave hiding from scarabs. There's some serious plot holes here.


No he is right about the scouting forces, the ships weren't so much for destroying all humans but more for defense and sabotage (as we see throughout the game til exodus. Carter's line partly was hyperbole and partly based off the fact that pretty much their attack had just failed and they surely lost the ships that were nearby giving support. I think he was saying that the only ships close enough that could give them nuke to place on the ship were gone. Idk how that ties into LNOS but I'll check out the map later to figure this stuff out.

[Edited on 04.10.2011 2:59 PM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 2:58 PM PDT