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  • Subject: The American Military (Fallout) vs The UNSC
Subject: The American Military (Fallout) vs The UNSC


Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus
In a cross between these two forces, the UNSC and the pre-war Fallout United States Army, who wins? This is a strict ground engagement, no spacecraft for use other than transporting troops and orbital strikes . Each side has the same amount of troops at their disposal.

I'm gonna have to go with America here. Sure, the UNSC has Spartans and firearms that are much more advanced than in Fallout, not to mention hardier troops and vehicles, but the American military can better produce power armor, energy weapons, and they have orbital strikes that would be much more precise than a MAC Cannon.


UNSC. The American military never had advanced spacecraft like the UNSC did. A Frigate MAC on full charge dropping on the American forces would be like dropping 3 Hiroshima bombs at once (Frigate MAC were rated at something like 64 kilotons last I checked, and the Hiroshima bomb was about 20)[/url]
True, but the United States has orbital platforms that can sling nukes precisely wherever they need to go, and at a higher speed than a MAC gun can reload.

[url]Plus the UNSC have the advantage of rail-gun technology, like the Cobra, and the unstoppable behemoth, the Vulture. Rhino plasma mortars, and so on. Plus the only weapons the American forces have that could definitely penetrate the MJOLNIR armor of Spartans without assuming anything would be plasma weapons, which were difficult to produce. The T-51 power armor (while quite effective and more readily available) is still susceptible to conventional firearms like bullets. (If you read the Fall of Reach, they make mention of bullets bouncing off of the Chief's armor.)

The Americans have harnessed Gauss technology as well, and have compacted it into a small arm. Not to mention, American plasma weaponry is generally more advanced than UNSC plasma weaponry, considering it's all still experimental, besides the Rhino platforms. Even still, Power Armor deflects bullets just as well as Mjonlir armor, and without the shields, makes it much more producable. You only need limited training to use it, as opposed to Mjolnir armor, where you need genetic augmentations to use it safely. By the time of the Great War, power armor was commonly use on the battlefield.

Really?

So, first then since fallout gets orbital guns, we get SMAC's.
Problem solved.
UNSC wins already, the SMAC's have a destructive capacity of bunches of nukes.

Spartans are well trained, and through this fallout army, I'd expect 1% dead from ground gunfire, because our SMAC's already cleared all of that and the rest from orbital strikes.


Look, if they start out with the same, who do you think wins?


1v1 Spartan and fallout trooper.
Right?


Also, our orbital bombardments are in comparison, highly effective.

A 1v1 with a Power Armor Marine and a Spartan would not go down well. Luckily, there would be many times the amount of power armor soldiers than Spartans, so that's a problem solved right there.

I never said you didn't get SMAC's, but think about it, using one would absolutely destroy a battlefield, including the soldiers on your side.

  • 04.10.2011 10:53 AM PDT

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Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus
In a cross between these two forces, the UNSC and the pre-war Fallout United States Army, who wins? This is a strict ground engagement, no spacecraft for use other than transporting troops and orbital strikes. Each side has the same amount of troops at their disposal.

I'm gonna have to go with America here. Sure, the UNSC has Spartans and firearms that are much more advanced than in Fallout, not to mention hardier troops and vehicles, but the American military can better produce power armor, energy weapons, and they have orbital strikes that would be much more precise than a MAC Cannon.


1) Yes, they can better produce power armor, but heres a few things to consider. For one, it isn't even close to matching the MJOLNIR suit. Second, it was not standard issue (common misconception; play the Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3).

2) Bullets are bullets. If I shot someone with a .44, he dies. If I shot him with a American Plasma Rifle, he dies. The only significant advantage to plasma weaponry is its stopping power, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference when the UNSC's bullets are basically just as effective.

3) AIs firing a MAC don't miss.

Q: Can the orbital platforms and the ships try to destroy each other?

1. By the time of the Great War, power armor was being used all over the place. It wouldn't take the place of normal soldiers, but it was certainly much more prevalent than Mjolnir armor. And also, the defensive power of a T-51b was similar, if not superior to Mjolnir when it came to solid rounds fire.

2. That is not true at all. A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor much more efficiently than a firearm in almost every case.

3. AI's control the firing of orbital nuclear platforms as well.

And sure, I suppose.

A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor?
Not in Halo.

So then, MAC's and orbitals are the same in accuracy.
No matter what, spartan's are the superior groundtroops, precisely the chief.
The power armor doesn't have shields, and the MAC orbital bombardments are nearly instant, and will decimate much of the opposition rather quickly.

  • 04.10.2011 10:53 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus

[quote]Posted by: ROBERTO jh
True, but those gauss guns have to be mounted. These are man-potable and easily fireable. I do believe there are larger gauss weapons though as well.


So is--as Faron pointed out--the UNSC Stanchion rifle.

True. I'm not sure if you can reload it as fast though.

  • 04.10.2011 10:53 AM PDT


Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus
In a cross between these two forces, the UNSC and the pre-war Fallout United States Army, who wins? This is a strict ground engagement, no spacecraft for use other than transporting troops and orbital strikes. Each side has the same amount of troops at their disposal.

I'm gonna have to go with America here. Sure, the UNSC has Spartans and firearms that are much more advanced than in Fallout, not to mention hardier troops and vehicles, but the American military can better produce power armor, energy weapons, and they have orbital strikes that would be much more precise than a MAC Cannon.


1) Yes, they can better produce power armor, but heres a few things to consider. For one, it isn't even close to matching the MJOLNIR suit. Second, it was not standard issue (common misconception; play the Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3).

2) Bullets are bullets. If I shot someone with a .44, he dies. If I shot him with a American Plasma Rifle, he dies. The only significant advantage to plasma weaponry is its stopping power, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference when the UNSC's bullets are basically just as effective.

3) AIs firing a MAC don't miss.

Q: Can the orbital platforms and the ships try to destroy each other?

1. By the time of the Great War, power armor was being used all over the place. It wouldn't take the place of normal soldiers, but it was certainly much more prevalent than Mjolnir armor. And also, the defensive power of a T-51b was similar, if not superior to Mjolnir when it came to solid rounds fire.

2. That is not true at all. A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor much more efficiently than a firearm in almost every case.

3. AI's control the firing of orbital nuclear platforms as well.

And sure, I suppose.

A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor?
Not in Halo.

So then, MAC's and orbitals are the same in accuracy.
No matter what, spartan's are the superior groundtroops, precisely the chief.
The power armor doesn't have shields, and the MAC orbital bombardments are nearly instant, and will decimate much of the opposition rather quickly.

In the books, a quick spray of plasma kills. Hell, in the Fall of Reach, one of the Spartans was killed by a plasma pistol burst. You apply realism here.

Also, numbers > skill in most cases.

  • 04.10.2011 10:55 AM PDT

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Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus
In a cross between these two forces, the UNSC and the pre-war Fallout United States Army, who wins? This is a strict ground engagement, no spacecraft for use other than transporting troops and orbital strikes. Each side has the same amount of troops at their disposal.

I'm gonna have to go with America here. Sure, the UNSC has Spartans and firearms that are much more advanced than in Fallout, not to mention hardier troops and vehicles, but the American military can better produce power armor, energy weapons, and they have orbital strikes that would be much more precise than a MAC Cannon.


1) Yes, they can better produce power armor, but heres a few things to consider. For one, it isn't even close to matching the MJOLNIR suit. Second, it was not standard issue (common misconception; play the Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3).

2) Bullets are bullets. If I shot someone with a .44, he dies. If I shot him with a American Plasma Rifle, he dies. The only significant advantage to plasma weaponry is its stopping power, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference when the UNSC's bullets are basically just as effective.

3) AIs firing a MAC don't miss.

Q: Can the orbital platforms and the ships try to destroy each other?

1. By the time of the Great War, power armor was being used all over the place. It wouldn't take the place of normal soldiers, but it was certainly much more prevalent than Mjolnir armor. And also, the defensive power of a T-51b was similar, if not superior to Mjolnir when it came to solid rounds fire.

2. That is not true at all. A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor much more efficiently than a firearm in almost every case.

3. AI's control the firing of orbital nuclear platforms as well.

And sure, I suppose.

A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor?
Not in Halo.

So then, MAC's and orbitals are the same in accuracy.
No matter what, spartan's are the superior groundtroops, precisely the chief.
The power armor doesn't have shields, and the MAC orbital bombardments are nearly instant, and will decimate much of the opposition rather quickly.

In the books, a quick spray of plasma kills. Hell, in the Fall of Reach, one of the Spartans was killed by a plasma pistol burst. You apply realism here.

Also, numbers > skill in most cases.

Covenant plasma is more effective.

  • 04.10.2011 10:56 AM PDT
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Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

  • 04.10.2011 10:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

  • 04.10.2011 10:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus
In a cross between these two forces, the UNSC and the pre-war Fallout United States Army, who wins? This is a strict ground engagement, no spacecraft for use other than transporting troops and orbital strikes. Each side has the same amount of troops at their disposal.

I'm gonna have to go with America here. Sure, the UNSC has Spartans and firearms that are much more advanced than in Fallout, not to mention hardier troops and vehicles, but the American military can better produce power armor, energy weapons, and they have orbital strikes that would be much more precise than a MAC Cannon.


1) Yes, they can better produce power armor, but heres a few things to consider. For one, it isn't even close to matching the MJOLNIR suit. Second, it was not standard issue (common misconception; play the Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3).

2) Bullets are bullets. If I shot someone with a .44, he dies. If I shot him with a American Plasma Rifle, he dies. The only significant advantage to plasma weaponry is its stopping power, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference when the UNSC's bullets are basically just as effective.

3) AIs firing a MAC don't miss.

Q: Can the orbital platforms and the ships try to destroy each other?

1. By the time of the Great War, power armor was being used all over the place. It wouldn't take the place of normal soldiers, but it was certainly much more prevalent than Mjolnir armor. And also, the defensive power of a T-51b was similar, if not superior to Mjolnir when it came to solid rounds fire.

2. That is not true at all. A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor much more efficiently than a firearm in almost every case.

3. AI's control the firing of orbital nuclear platforms as well.

And sure, I suppose.

A plasma rifle would tear through shielding and armor?
Not in Halo.

So then, MAC's and orbitals are the same in accuracy.
No matter what, spartan's are the superior groundtroops, precisely the chief.
The power armor doesn't have shields, and the MAC orbital bombardments are nearly instant, and will decimate much of the opposition rather quickly.

In the books, a quick spray of plasma kills. Hell, in the Fall of Reach, one of the Spartans was killed by a plasma pistol burst. You apply realism here.

Also, numbers > skill in most cases.


The entire novel The Fall of Reach would like a word with you. Have you ever seen american Marines destroying entire alien armies with a 4 man squad before? Spartans don't see superior numbers or no win scenarios; they see oppurtunity.

Or, as Halo 2's manual puts it: "walking ammo crates."

  • 04.10.2011 10:58 AM PDT


Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Covenant plasma is more effective.

Not true. A plasma burst from a Winchester P94, while slower firing, is much more powerful and concentrated than most Covenant weapons.

  • 04.10.2011 10:59 AM PDT

The entire novel The Fall of Reach would like a word with you. Have you ever seen american Marines destroying entire alien armies with a 4 man squad before? Spartans don't see superior numbers or no win scenarios; they see oppurtunity.

Or, as Halo 2's manual puts it: "walking ammo crates."

Perhaps, but before the Great War, America was beginning to cut through Chinise territory using single squads of power armor soldiers. They got as far as Shanghei before the bombs went off, and that was only a few squads.

[Edited on 04.10.2011 11:01 AM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 11:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.
It's sunday.

  • 04.10.2011 11:10 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

did you actualy read thhe Halo or falout wikia.


















because i did

  • 04.10.2011 11:12 AM PDT


Posted by: fsabran
did you actualy read thhe Halo or falout wikia.


















because i did

I am frequent to both. They're both very interesting universes.

  • 04.10.2011 11:14 AM PDT


Posted by: Nyxiz

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.
It's sunday.

Good point.

  • 04.10.2011 11:15 AM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

  • 04.10.2011 11:16 AM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

I never said they were all wearing power armor. The distributed portions of men have to be realistic for each universe.

  • 04.10.2011 11:18 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.



Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: fsabran
did you actualy read thhe Halo or falout wikia.


















because i did

I am frequent to both. They're both very interesting universes.
i agree

  • 04.10.2011 11:18 AM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

I never said they were all wearing power armor. The distributed portions of men have to be realistic for each universe.

So lets talk Spartan III :)

  • 04.10.2011 11:21 AM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

I never said they were all wearing power armor. The distributed portions of men have to be realistic for each universe.

So lets talk Spartan III :)


Indeed, the Spartan IIIs can all wear MJOLNIR.

  • 04.10.2011 11:23 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
So lets talk Spartan III :)


Indeed, the Spartan IIIs can all wear MJOLNIR.

And Pre-Covenant war puts us at 930 Spartan IIIs!

  • 04.10.2011 11:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Indeed, the Spartan IIIs can all wear MJOLNIR.

Anyone can wear power armor. It's likely that roughly 25% if not higher would be wearing power armor on the American side, with maybe 1%-2% being Spartans on the UNSC side. Spartans are extremely uncommon.

  • 04.10.2011 11:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

I never said they were all wearing power armor. The distributed portions of men have to be realistic for each universe.


Well that would include Vulture, Hawks and other air assets, right?

Outside the obvious (SAM sites) what counter does the Americans have to these?

(Note: Power armor or not, you'll get pulverized by a Vulture volley.)

[Edited on 04.10.2011 11:28 AM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 11:27 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Nyxiz
Nobody has pointed out that the UNSC spreads across star systems. That's a lot of soldiers.

I assume your American military would be pretty small in comparison.

By that logic, screw the tech chat, the UNSC wins by numbers.

I said in the OP they both have the same amount of troops to expend in this situation.

We have the exact same amount of troops to expend?

So if your troops are wearing power armour, all of ours are wearing Mjolnir, and making them spartans :)

I never said they were all wearing power armor. The distributed portions of men have to be realistic for each universe.


Well that would include Vulture, Hawks and other air assets, right?

Outside the obvious (SAM sites) what counter does the Americans have to these?

(Note: Power armor or not, you'll get pulverized by a Vulture volley.)

Vehicular support is very unadvanced compared to the UNSC, true. In fact, I still think that B-92's are used by the time of the great war.

  • 04.10.2011 11:29 AM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Astrogenesis 1
So lets talk Spartan III :)


Indeed, the Spartan IIIs can all wear MJOLNIR.

And Pre-Covenant war puts us at 930 Spartan IIIs!

That's wrong. Like, completely. Spartan III's didn't even exist until the Human-Covenant war began. And if I remember, there were roughly 300 of them.

  • 04.10.2011 11:30 AM PDT

The spartan III Headhunter Teams, which were equiped with energy shielding, motion trackers, VISR tech and active camouflage, would be deployed behind enemy lines to destroy and cause as much damage as possible.

  • 04.10.2011 11:31 AM PDT