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  • Subject: The American Military (Fallout) vs The UNSC
Subject: The American Military (Fallout) vs The UNSC

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.

  • 04.10.2011 1:19 PM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.


Curious to how they got all that super-tech...

  • 04.10.2011 1:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: flamedude
I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.


Curious to how they got all that super-tech...
Beauty of Science-Fiction.

  • 04.10.2011 1:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: flamedude
I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.


Curious to how they got all that super-tech...
Beauty of Science-Fiction.

Actually, according to canon, it was taken from crashed alien ships.

Yeah.

  • 04.10.2011 1:21 PM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: flamedude
I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.


Curious to how they got all that super-tech...
Beauty of Science-Fiction.

Actually, according to canon, it was taken from crashed alien ships.

Yeah.
?
I have never heard of that.

  • 04.10.2011 1:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: flamedude
I think a lot of people forget the ludicrous weaponry that Pre-Fallout US Military had access to; Archimedes II, Orbital Bombardment, Liberty Prime robots, Power Armor, Fat Man nuclear catapults, Stealth Boys, Sentry Bots and so on and so on.


Curious to how they got all that super-tech...
Beauty of Science-Fiction.

Actually, according to canon, it was taken from crashed alien ships.

Yeah.
?
I have never heard of that.

Well, not outright taken, but heavily influenced by.

Here.

  • 04.10.2011 1:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus
Well, not outright taken, but heavily influenced by.

Here.
Odd how it doesn't show any references on the bottom. You so, so that the player can go to these places ingame and see for themselves.

I'm going to have to take that page with a grain of salt. In my various playthroughs of almost every Fallouyt Game, I've never encountered this.

  • 04.10.2011 1:27 PM PDT

sorry to say but everyone is missing the biggest strength the Halo humans have in this scenario, which is very fast deployment of both infantry, mechanised units anywhere on the battlefield through a number of means, all carried out from orbital craft such as Frigates, Carriers or Cruisers. think about this, twenty Pelicans are deployed from a Carrier in low orbit, ten are carrying Scorpions, five are carrying Gauss Hogs and five are carrying Missile Hogs, all those Pelicans can carry numerous fully armed marines, with all their gear and deploy that force anywhere on the planet with little to no warning.

before deploying ground forces take out all surrounding defensive emplacements (including orbital) with Longsword bomber strikes and deploy Hornets to support ground troops, establish a 'beach-head' for more landings and that is it, its over right there. deploy SPARTAN-II teams behind enemy lines to disrupt command and control, take out supply lines and generally be pains in the rear. take out major American bases from orbit using Frigate MAC (which sorry to say, won't miss because its a 600 ton projectile travelling at 35,000 metres/second, aimed by a smart AI), that would level something the size of a city. there is no plausible way for the American military to win unless you strip the Halo humans of all their technology and equipment which would be a pointless comparison.

in Halo forces are deployed from orbiting ships, that is really the bottom line, you cannot have a fair comparison without giving them the ability to deploy in the way they deploy. all of this does nothing to take into account things like Longsword (which look very stealthy by the way, might have low radar cross section) using nuclear strikes and such, not to mention Orbital Drop Shock Troopers deploying planet-side. the whole United Nations Space Command military doctrine to me seems based around rapid deployment to the field, their vehicles are designed to be carried on cargo hooks on the Pelican, even their tanks are designed to be carried. Liberty Prime wouldn't be much of a problem, a single Cobra tank would be able to take it out with little trouble, from miles away.

also its worth noting as much as I hate it, Frigates can be deployed in-atmosphere to provide fire support to ground forces and even land for force deployment, again that is a feature of their military way of thinking, so taking that aspect away would make it an unfair comparison, since the Fallout humans get to keep everything, and the Halo humans are stripped of anything that can make them a threat, so game over to be honest.

  • 04.10.2011 1:29 PM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
sorry to say but everyone is missing the biggest strength the Halo humans have in this scenario, which is very fast deployment of both infantry, mechanised units anywhere on the battlefield through a number of means, all carried out from orbital craft such as Frigates, Carriers or Cruisers. think about this, twenty Pelicans are deployed from a Carrier in low orbit, ten are carrying Scorpions, five are carrying Gauss Hogs and five are carrying Missile Hogs, all those Pelicans can carry numerous fully armed marines, with all their gear and deploy that force anywhere on the planet with little to no warning.

before deploying ground forces take out all surrounding defensive emplacements (including orbital) with Longsword bomber strikes and deploy Hornets to support ground troops, establish a 'beach-head' for more landings and that is it, its over right there. deploy SPARTAN-II teams behind enemy lines to disrupt command and control, take out supply lines and generally be pains in the rear. take out major American bases from orbit using Frigate MAC (which sorry to say, won't miss because its a 600 ton projectile travelling at 35,000 metres/second, aimed by a smart AI), that would level something the size of a city. there is no plausible way for the American military to win unless you strip the Halo humans of all their technology and equipment which would be a pointless comparison.

in Halo forces are deployed from orbiting ships, that is really the bottom line, you cannot have a fair comparison without giving them the ability to deploy in the way they deploy. all of this does nothing to take into account things like Longsword (which look very stealthy by the way, might have low radar cross section) using nuclear strikes and such, not to mention Orbital Drop Shock Troopers deploying planet-side. the whole United Nations Space Command military doctrine to me seems based around rapid deployment to the field, their vehicles are designed to be carried on cargo hooks on the Pelican, even their tanks are designed to be carried. Liberty Prime wouldn't be much of a problem, a single Cobra tank would be able to take it out with little trouble, from miles away.

also its worth noting as much as I hate it, Frigates can be deployed in-atmosphere to provide fire support to ground forces and even land for force deployment, again that is a feature of their military way of thinking, so taking that aspect away would make it an unfair comparison, since the Fallout humans get to keep everything, and the Halo humans are stripped of anything that can make them a threat, so game over to be honest.

The rapid deployment is a huge advantage, but if a frigate tried entering orbit it would be smoked even faster than in orbit with the platforms. Not to mention, American fighters could take out a Longsword just as easily as any other fighter.

  • 04.10.2011 1:37 PM PDT


Posted by: AngrydoG
MJOLNIR is superior to the T-51b Armor in every way.

First off, I never saw a T-51b user pick up a tank.

Secondly, the armor actually slows you down so they are slower than Spartans.

Third and Finally, they are not impervious to projectile weapons, MJOLNIR is.

If MJOLNIR is impervious to firearms, why can they still be damaged by them? Plus T-51's do increase strength, though not as much as MJOLNIR suits. Like I said, the biggest advanage is prudctability and the fact that virtually everyone can use it.

  • 04.10.2011 1:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
sorry to say but everyone is missing the biggest strength the Halo humans have in this scenario, which is very fast deployment of both infantry, mechanised units anywhere on the battlefield through a number of means, all carried out from orbital craft such as Frigates, Carriers or Cruisers. think about this, twenty Pelicans are deployed from a Carrier in low orbit, ten are carrying Scorpions, five are carrying Gauss Hogs and five are carrying Missile Hogs, all those Pelicans can carry numerous fully armed marines, with all their gear and deploy that force anywhere on the planet with little to no warning.

before deploying ground forces take out all surrounding defensive emplacements (including orbital) with Longsword bomber strikes and deploy Hornets to support ground troops, establish a 'beach-head' for more landings and that is it, its over right there. deploy SPARTAN-II teams behind enemy lines to disrupt command and control, take out supply lines and generally be pains in the rear. take out major American bases from orbit using Frigate MAC (which sorry to say, won't miss because its a 600 ton projectile travelling at 35,000 metres/second, aimed by a smart AI), that would level something the size of a city. there is no plausible way for the American military to win unless you strip the Halo humans of all their technology and equipment which would be a pointless comparison.

in Halo forces are deployed from orbiting ships, that is really the bottom line, you cannot have a fair comparison without giving them the ability to deploy in the way they deploy. all of this does nothing to take into account things like Longsword (which look very stealthy by the way, might have low radar cross section) using nuclear strikes and such, not to mention Orbital Drop Shock Troopers deploying planet-side. the whole United Nations Space Command military doctrine to me seems based around rapid deployment to the field, their vehicles are designed to be carried on cargo hooks on the Pelican, even their tanks are designed to be carried. Liberty Prime wouldn't be much of a problem, a single Cobra tank would be able to take it out with little trouble, from miles away.

also its worth noting as much as I hate it, Frigates can be deployed in-atmosphere to provide fire support to ground forces and even land for force deployment, again that is a feature of their military way of thinking, so taking that aspect away would make it an unfair comparison, since the Fallout humans get to keep everything, and the Halo humans are stripped of anything that can make them a threat, so game over to be honest.

The rapid deployment is a huge advantage, but if a frigate tried entering orbit it would be smoked even faster than in orbit with the platforms. Not to mention, American fighters could take out a Longsword just as easily as any other fighter.
Uh, what? The American military wasn't able to take down the Nuclear Missiles. How can they hope to take down a UNSC frigate?

Besides, Lasers were a relatively new invention by the time of the Great War. Even Vertibird was still in its prototype stages. By that time, bullets were still a standard ammunation.

  • 04.10.2011 1:42 PM PDT


Posted by: AngrydoG
Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
sorry to say but everyone is missing the biggest strength the Halo humans have in this scenario, which is very fast deployment of both infantry, mechanised units anywhere on the battlefield through a number of means, all carried out from orbital craft such as Frigates, Carriers or Cruisers. think about this, twenty Pelicans are deployed from a Carrier in low orbit, ten are carrying Scorpions, five are carrying Gauss Hogs and five are carrying Missile Hogs, all those Pelicans can carry numerous fully armed marines, with all their gear and deploy that force anywhere on the planet with little to no warning.

before deploying ground forces take out all surrounding defensive emplacements (including orbital) with Longsword bomber strikes and deploy Hornets to support ground troops, establish a 'beach-head' for more landings and that is it, its over right there. deploy SPARTAN-II teams behind enemy lines to disrupt command and control, take out supply lines and generally be pains in the rear. take out major American bases from orbit using Frigate MAC (which sorry to say, won't miss because its a 600 ton projectile travelling at 35,000 metres/second, aimed by a smart AI), that would level something the size of a city. there is no plausible way for the American military to win unless you strip the Halo humans of all their technology and equipment which would be a pointless comparison.

in Halo forces are deployed from orbiting ships, that is really the bottom line, you cannot have a fair comparison without giving them the ability to deploy in the way they deploy. all of this does nothing to take into account things like Longsword (which look very stealthy by the way, might have low radar cross section) using nuclear strikes and such, not to mention Orbital Drop Shock Troopers deploying planet-side. the whole United Nations Space Command military doctrine to me seems based around rapid deployment to the field, their vehicles are designed to be carried on cargo hooks on the Pelican, even their tanks are designed to be carried. Liberty Prime wouldn't be much of a problem, a single Cobra tank would be able to take it out with little trouble, from miles away.

also its worth noting as much as I hate it, Frigates can be deployed in-atmosphere to provide fire support to ground forces and even land for force deployment, again that is a feature of their military way of thinking, so taking that aspect away would make it an unfair comparison, since the Fallout humans get to keep everything, and the Halo humans are stripped of anything that can make them a threat, so game over to be honest.

The rapid deployment is a huge advantage, but if a frigate tried entering orbit it would be smoked even faster than in orbit with the platforms. Not to mention, American fighters could take out a Longsword just as easily as any other fighter.


LongSwords/Sabers can take out the orbital platforms...

Orbital Platforms could do the same. The missles are computer guided and completely steerable.

  • 04.10.2011 1:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
sorry to say but everyone is missing the biggest strength the Halo humans have in this scenario, which is very fast deployment of both infantry, mechanised units anywhere on the battlefield through a number of means, all carried out from orbital craft such as Frigates, Carriers or Cruisers. think about this, twenty Pelicans are deployed from a Carrier in low orbit, ten are carrying Scorpions, five are carrying Gauss Hogs and five are carrying Missile Hogs, all those Pelicans can carry numerous fully armed marines, with all their gear and deploy that force anywhere on the planet with little to no warning.

before deploying ground forces take out all surrounding defensive emplacements (including orbital) with Longsword bomber strikes and deploy Hornets to support ground troops, establish a 'beach-head' for more landings and that is it, its over right there. deploy SPARTAN-II teams behind enemy lines to disrupt command and control, take out supply lines and generally be pains in the rear. take out major American bases from orbit using Frigate MAC (which sorry to say, won't miss because its a 600 ton projectile travelling at 35,000 metres/second, aimed by a smart AI), that would level something the size of a city. there is no plausible way for the American military to win unless you strip the Halo humans of all their technology and equipment which would be a pointless comparison.

in Halo forces are deployed from orbiting ships, that is really the bottom line, you cannot have a fair comparison without giving them the ability to deploy in the way they deploy. all of this does nothing to take into account things like Longsword (which look very stealthy by the way, might have low radar cross section) using nuclear strikes and such, not to mention Orbital Drop Shock Troopers deploying planet-side. the whole United Nations Space Command military doctrine to me seems based around rapid deployment to the field, their vehicles are designed to be carried on cargo hooks on the Pelican, even their tanks are designed to be carried. Liberty Prime wouldn't be much of a problem, a single Cobra tank would be able to take it out with little trouble, from miles away.

also its worth noting as much as I hate it, Frigates can be deployed in-atmosphere to provide fire support to ground forces and even land for force deployment, again that is a feature of their military way of thinking, so taking that aspect away would make it an unfair comparison, since the Fallout humans get to keep everything, and the Halo humans are stripped of anything that can make them a threat, so game over to be honest.

The rapid deployment is a huge advantage, but if a frigate tried entering orbit it would be smoked even faster than in orbit with the platforms. Not to mention, American fighters could take out a Longsword just as easily as any other fighter.
Uh, what? The American military wasn't able to take down the Nuclear Missiles. How can they hope to take down a UNSC frigate?

Besides, Lasers were a relatively new invention by the time of the Great War. Even Vertibird was still in its prototype stages. By that time, bullets were still a standard ammunation.

True, small energy weapons were mostly prototype, but on vehicles it wasn't too uncommon to find them. Besides, the fact that a frigate is giant and the missle platforms have a clear shot at it makes it very easy to hit.

  • 04.10.2011 1:46 PM PDT

do know Longsword fighter/bombers are the size of modern day stealth bombers right? and they can seriously haul ass, they have enough power to break orbit so would put there maximum atmospheric speed well supersonic, maybe even hypersonic, plus its worth saying they might not even be detectable to radar, look at their shape, very similar to modern stealth planes. the orbital platforms wouldn't be a problem, since they would be the primary target of orbiting Frigates and Longsword bombers. fair enough, what exactly is going to smoke a 478 metre long Frigate, never seen anything in the Fallout universe that would be able to do that? locate all defensive batteries around your landing destination and obliterate them all from orbit using Archer missiles, hell I think an Archer is more than a match for most planet-side defences and the ships possess hundreds, sometimes thousands of them!

could also bring Prowlers into the debate, for taking out orbital platforms using HORNET mines, not like the orbital platforms would cause them much trouble to be honest. could also use drones to attack land based targets, can never remember what they are called. wouldn't be worried about Power Armour either, especially with Gauss Hogs in the field since they have long long range and serious stopping power.

  • 04.10.2011 1:48 PM PDT

If they could match the speeds...

Oh, HEV drop.

ODSTs and Spartans deploy and land directly in the enemy HQ and take out the command structure.

  • 04.10.2011 1:54 PM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
do know Longsword fighter/bombers are the size of modern day stealth bombers right? and they can seriously haul ass, they have enough power to break orbit so would put there maximum atmospheric speed well supersonic, maybe even hypersonic, plus its worth saying they might not even be detectable to radar, look at their shape, very similar to modern stealth planes. the orbital platforms wouldn't be a problem, since they would be the primary target of orbiting Frigates and Longsword bombers. fair enough, what exactly is going to smoke a 478 metre long Frigate, never seen anything in the Fallout universe that would be able to do that? locate all defensive batteries around your landing destination and obliterate them all from orbit using Archer missiles, hell I think an Archer is more than a match for most planet-side defences and the ships possess hundreds, sometimes thousands of them!

could also bring Prowlers into the debate, for taking out orbital platforms using HORNET mines, not like the orbital platforms would cause them much trouble to be honest. could also use drones to attack land based targets, can never remember what they are called. wouldn't be worried about Power Armour either, especially with Gauss Hogs in the field since they have long long range and serious stopping power.

Anti-air guns do exist, you know. They could take down the Longswords and other fighters as well, it's not too difficult. And as I said before, the orbital platforms can destory pretty much anything that moves, unlike MAC guns, where the projectile is unalterable after firing. Plus, if that fails, remember those huge-ass guns that you blew up in Anchorage? Yeah, those were American weapons captured by the Chinese, I believe. Those would rip a hole right through a cruiser.

Also, Archer missiles aren't meant to be fired from orbit.

  • 04.10.2011 1:55 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If they could match the speeds...

Oh, HEV drop.

ODSTs and Spartans deploy and land directly in the enemy HQ and take out the command structure.

Lol, that would turn out well. Let me just turn on my bulletproof robots. Oh yeah, and the military stationed there.

  • 04.10.2011 1:56 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

If UNSC spacecraft are in this fight then it is no match whatsoever. A UNSC Frigate would wipe the floor with the Fallout US military. If no spacecraft were allowed then it would be much more balanced but I would say in the Fallout US favour.

They have nuclear catapults and a robot that throws nuclear shells like footballs. Gauss Rifles, Laser Rifles, Pulse Guns, Gatling Lasers, Ballistic Fists. So many toys.

The Fallout universe is so much fun, I love it.

  • 04.10.2011 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
If UNSC spacecraft are in this fight then it is no match whatsoever. A UNSC Frigate would wipe the floor with the Fallout US military. If no spacecraft were allowed then it would be much more balanced but I would say in the Fallout US favour.

They have nuclear catapults and a robot that throws nuclear shells like footballs. Gauss Rifles, Laser Rifles, Pulse Guns, Gatling Lasers, Ballistic Fists. So many toys.

The Fallout universe is so much fun, I love it.

Me too, it's amazing. So hilariously overpowered and culturally challenged.

But yeah, once again, there are the bombardment platforms. That's a huge advantage.

  • 04.10.2011 2:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: flamedude
If UNSC spacecraft are in this fight then it is no match whatsoever. A UNSC Frigate would wipe the floor with the Fallout US military. If no spacecraft were allowed then it would be much more balanced but I would say in the Fallout US favour.

They have nuclear catapults and a robot that throws nuclear shells like footballs. Gauss Rifles, Laser Rifles, Pulse Guns, Gatling Lasers, Ballistic Fists. So many toys.

The Fallout universe is so much fun, I love it.

Me too, it's amazing. So hilariously overpowered and culturally challenged.

But yeah, once again, there are the bombardment platforms. That's a huge advantage.


And Nuclear weapons are an "Ilose" button.

Toss nukes around like candy and you'll kill more friendlies then enemies.

  • 04.10.2011 2:04 PM PDT

Lol at all of this.

Lets put it with the numbers the UNSC have at disposal. You said 1 million vs 1 million correct?

930 Spartan III
33 Spartan II
100,000 ODST
500,000 UNSC Marines
399,037 UNSC Army Troopers

Of course the UNSC have more than that, although it was limited to your simple 1 million.

These are what I would deploy, with Spartans on the field, that would give the troops so much moral.

[Edited on 04.10.2011 2:56 PM PDT]

  • 04.10.2011 2:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Scoopicus

Posted by: flamedude
If UNSC spacecraft are in this fight then it is no match whatsoever. A UNSC Frigate would wipe the floor with the Fallout US military. If no spacecraft were allowed then it would be much more balanced but I would say in the Fallout US favour.

They have nuclear catapults and a robot that throws nuclear shells like footballs. Gauss Rifles, Laser Rifles, Pulse Guns, Gatling Lasers, Ballistic Fists. So many toys.

The Fallout universe is so much fun, I love it.

Me too, it's amazing. So hilariously overpowered and culturally challenged.

But yeah, once again, there are the bombardment platforms. That's a huge advantage.


And Nuclear weapons are an "Ilose" button.

Toss nukes around like candy and you'll kill more friendlies then enemies.

Have you seen the tactical nukes they use in Fallout? They don't destroy everything, only the large-scale ones do.

  • 04.10.2011 2:11 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: mojeda101
Lol at all of this.

Lets put it with the numbers the UNSC have at disposal. You said 1 million vs 1 million correct?

930 Spartan III
33 Spartan II
499,037 ODST
250,000 UNSC Marines
250,000 UNSC Army Troopers

Of course the UNSC have more than that, although it was limited to your simple 1 million.

These are what I would deploy, with Spartans on the field, that would give the troops so much moral.


Holy -blam!-,around a thousands spartans in a single battle,that would be a sight to behold.

*imagines spartans doing the impossible*

  • 04.10.2011 2:11 PM PDT