Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: Can shots not register in Halo: Combat Evolved PC?
  • Subject: Can shots not register in Halo: Combat Evolved PC?
Subject: Can shots not register in Halo: Combat Evolved PC?

Something smells fishy...

I was just wondering if shots fired sometimes do not register. As in when shooting at an opponent, even if you're on target, the shots seem to have no effect.

I experience this on some servers even if my ping is pretty low and is stable.

Essentially I'm just curious as to what the cause is for unregistered shots. That is if shots that do not register are even a possibility.

  • 04.14.2011 6:13 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

It's possible, it's bad netcode/porting, and it's annoying. I feel your pain.

  • 04.14.2011 7:02 AM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: Dr Syx
It's possible, it's bad netcode/porting, and it's annoying. I feel your pain.

I guess that's life...

  • 04.14.2011 7:16 AM PDT
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  • Elder Legendary Member

Yes, I am a hypocrite, and I'm sorry. I really do mean well, but I'm not running on all cylinders.

Everytime someone buys a copy of Halo 2 Vista, a puppy dies.

Since Halo PC uses UDP for online play, it can suffer from packet loss like most other games of its type. Your ping can appear fine even when packets are not making it to and from the server. Some shots could just not happen.

  • 04.14.2011 8:42 AM PDT
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Packet loss, jitter and overloaded servers are common causes but yes, shots can indeed not register. :)

  • 04.14.2011 12:15 PM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: n357
Since Halo PC uses UDP for online play, it can suffer from packet loss like most other games of its type. Your ping can appear fine even when packets are not making it to and from the server. Some shots could just not happen.

Wow. That's crazy. Thanks for helping me understand why shots don't register in Halo:)

Just wondering, are all games that use UDP ports for online play susceptible to packet loss?

Posted by: Btcc22
Packet loss, jitter and overloaded servers are common causes but yes, shots can indeed not register. :)

Wow you and node are the best:) Thanks for helping me understand this. But I have some more questions...

Questions:

1) Is packet loss due to a slow internet connection?

2) Is packet loss inevitable for games that use UDP ports for online play?

3) Does packet loss occur in games that don't use UDP ports for online play?


[Edited on 04.15.2011 11:30 AM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 11:28 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.

1. Packet loss is due to crappy internet.
2. It's inevitible. I know H3 and H2 had netcode issues too, and reach probably does too. I've seen people in H2V moan about lag in 1v1s and will also blame lag a lot when people catch them hacking.
3. It doesn't happen as much on TCP, but more games use UDP. I know the 360 uses UDP.

[Edited on 04.15.2011 11:39 AM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 11:38 AM PDT
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Everything on the Internet is at the mercy of packet loss, however, TCP is a reliable protocol or in other words, it has been designed to detect and deal with packet loss. However, this protection comes at the price of higher overheads and slower response times (packets require acknowledgements to confirm receipt).

UDP doesn't have any mechanisms to detect and correct loss and as such has lower overhead and superior response times thus making it highly preferable for certain genres of games (FPS, racing etc).

1) Only if it's too slow to sustain the bandwidth required to send/receive the packets, usually. Packets can be lost en route though and with a congested ISP, UDP is going to be the first to take the hit unless they're given priority. My last ISP had ~50% UDP loss during the evenings thanks to incredible congestion.

2) Yes but these games would likely perform even worse on TCP anyway. Resending packets is of no use when their contents are irrelevant to the current state of the game. Ever played a TCP game such as WoW where everything appears to freeze for a while and then suddenly runs at super-speed? That's TCP catching up with a backlog of packets. Rather than simply ignore lost data and start receiving up to date information as you would with UDP, TCP essentially stops processing newer packets in favour of receiving older packets and processing them first. This can't be helped by developers who choose to use TCP since it's implemented at the protocol level.

3) Yes but you'll end up being disconnected if packets are dropped and they can't be retransmitted before the connection times out. See above. :D

Probably more than you wanted to know but hey.

[Edited on 04.15.2011 12:19 PM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 12:13 PM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: Btcc22
Everything on the Internet is at the mercy of packet loss, however, TCP is a reliable protocol or in other words, it's been designed to detect and deal with packet loss. However, this protection comes at the price of higher overheads and slower response times (packets require acknowledgements to confirm receipt).

UDP doesn't have any mechanisms to detect and correct loss and as such has lower overhead and superior response times thus making it highly preferable for certain genres of games (FPS, racing etc).

1) Only if it's too slow to sustain the bandwidth required to send/receive the packets, usually. Packets can be lost en route though and with a congested ISP, UDP is going to be the first to take the hit unless they're given priority. My last ISP had ~50% UDP loss during the evenings thanks to incredible congestion.

2) Yes but these games would likely perform even worse on TCP anyway. Resending packets is of no use when their contents are irrelevant to the current state of the game. Ever played a TCP game such as WoW where everything appears to freeze for a while and then suddenly runs at super-speed? That's TCP catching up with a backlog of packets. Rather than simply ignore lost data and start receiving up to date information as you would with UDP. TCP essentially stops processing newer packets in favour of receiving older packets and processing them first. This can't be helped by developers who choose to use TCP since it's implemented at the protocol level.

3) Yes but you'll end up being disconnected if packets are dropped and they can't be retransmitted successfully. See above. :D

Probably more than you wanted to know but hey.

Thanks for answering my questions.

Maybe some time in the future computer scientists might create a new and improved set of internet protocols that can better suit the needs of modern internet usage.

  • 04.15.2011 12:35 PM PDT
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There are some protocols more suited to gaming already but adoption is a slow process. :)

  • 04.15.2011 1:33 PM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: Btcc22
There are some protocols more suited to gaming already but adoption is a slow process. :)

Yes the adoption process can be painfully slow.

  • 04.15.2011 2:00 PM PDT

Forgive me if you're already aware of this, but you have to lead your shots in the PC version.

I just thought I'd mention it since I don't know if you're new to the game's multiplayer or not.

  • 04.16.2011 9:17 AM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: JatoUnit
Forgive me if you're already aware of this, but you have to lead your shots in the PC version.

I just thought I'd mention it since I don't know if you're new to the game's multiplayer or not.

I certainly am not new to the game. And yes I do lead my shots:)

I was just curious about whether or not shots register or not.

  • 04.16.2011 10:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Steeel Woool
You have to lead your shots in HPC. It was a stupid, stupid, stupid decision made by the porters that allowed people with dial up to play.


It was mandated by Microsoft (apparently). Not sure I'd blame the state of the netcode entirely on that decision though.

  • 04.16.2011 1:51 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Btcc22

Posted by: Steeel Woool
You have to lead your shots in HPC. It was a stupid, stupid, stupid decision made by the porters that allowed people with dial up to play.


It was mandated by Microsoft (apparently). Not sure I'd blame the state of the netcode entirely on that decision though.

Apparently the beta netcode that didn't allow 56k was actually really good. None of this having to lead and warping warthogs like we have now.

  • 04.17.2011 12:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: DusK

Posted by: Btcc22

Posted by: Steeel Woool
You have to lead your shots in HPC. It was a stupid, stupid, stupid decision made by the porters that allowed people with dial up to play.


It was mandated by Microsoft (apparently). Not sure I'd blame the state of the netcode entirely on that decision though.

Apparently the beta netcode that didn't allow 56k was actually really good. None of this having to lead and warping warthogs like we have now.


Indeed. :)

  • 04.17.2011 1:08 AM PDT