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Subject: would a field marshall from reach beat a spartan || solider?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, Chief wasn't a match at all for the black armored Elite in the bridge. He had to have outside help + an escape pod. He didn't win that battle.


That was because he was wounded and severely worn out from all the fighting he did on Alpha Halo, I wouldn't take that as the general view on Chief's CQC skills, and plus the Elite had a sword and Chief did not, you have to approach a fight against someone using a melee weapon very differently than something that's just fisticuffs mano-a-mano.

Anyway, Fall of Reach, gamma station. Chief is rested, uninjured, and absolutely fine. I think it was a blue armored elite (Minor or ranger, both which aren't the strongest Elites around) was an equal match to him.

I'd also take the account there with a grain of salt, as when the book first came out they said that was when Elites were first encountered so Chief had never fought with an Elite before. Even though Elites not being encountered up to that point has since been rendered non-canon I read it more as they were more evenly footed, so to speak, because John had never fought Elites before.

  • 04.17.2011 2:25 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Skirting around the fact that it was stated the Elite in hand to hand was too "evenly matched in strength" to master chief.

I love the impartiality people treat that scene with.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
A: Disliking does not = not proficient. All Spartan IIs received zero G combat training.

In addition to John sucking in hand-to-hand when compared to Kelly's rapid incapacitation of a sword wielding Elite in GoO. Whilst your inequality is true on just those terms, it does not hold with that comparison.

Your second sentence is irrelevant. Just because they received training does not rule out the possibility for less than optimum performance in that area.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
C: Master chief, fully rested and all, MAY have been a match for the black armored Elite on the bridge. Tired as he was? He wasn't a match. He barely held on.

I was not aware that the PoV of the Elite was told. Unless the Elite was toying with him I do not know how the outcome would still be dubious to you if Chief was at optimum proficiency. The Elite struggled just as much as he did and was said to panic or get angry.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
D: Six didn't mention the field marshall, simple said "Shield strength" matched what had been encountered concerning Elites in addition to Jorge saying their armor matched Zealots.

Actually he compounded the statement that it was Zealots, not Elites in general.

Halsey: "Irrelevant. The Elites. Tell me more about them."
Jorge-052: "Three. Zealot-class. One got by us. The leader, from the looks of him."
Halsey: "Zealots? You're certain?"
Jorge-052: "Their armor configuration matched."
Noble Six: "Shield strength, too."


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
So yeah, personal viewpoint? Hand to Hand? If it's a CQC specialist Spartan? Spartan might win. If not? Close fight, could end with Spartan dying.

How are those two outcomes distinct at all? Bias much?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The Field Marshall rank is akin, from what I can gather, to a fleet master. Like the Zealots and Ultras(of Halo 2), these are the BEST Elites.

Sounds a bit Non Sequitur to me.

  • 04.17.2011 2:29 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Thel 'Lodamee, a Major, defeated Shiela and almost defeated John.

Honestly, Elites, Zealots or not, and Spartans are fairly equal opponents.

  • 04.17.2011 2:38 PM PDT
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Noble Six killed a Field Marshall at the end of the Reach Campaign, Im sure every other Spartan (except 1337 lol) can kill one...

  • 04.17.2011 2:42 PM PDT

Okay, maybe I am a little biased against chief. But that's partly because I've seen far too much hero worship treating him as an unstoppable force.

Elites and Spartans, as cobra said, have always been labeled as pretty much equal in hand to hand and otherwise. Seeing as a Field Marshall would have to be one of the best elites (As it is such a high rank) I'd say there is an edge. We haven't really seen any Spartan-Zealot hand to hand fighting.

  • 04.17.2011 2:46 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Okay, maybe I am a little biased against chief. But that's partly because I've seen far too much hero worship treating him as an unstoppable force.

Elites and Spartans, as cobra said, have always been labeled as pretty much equal in hand to hand and otherwise. Seeing as a Field Marshall would have to be one of the best elites (As it is such a high rank) I'd say there is an edge. We haven't really seen any Spartan-Zealot hand to hand fighting.

You know Halo fans like to forget certain things from canon when it doesn't suit their needs.

  • 04.17.2011 2:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617
It doesn't matter the rank of the god damn split chin.
It's just an elite hiding behind ornamental armor and honor and shields. A Field Marshall is just a slightly prettier target.


Actually, rank does matter in a few ways. To advance the ranks of Elites you have to be smart, skilled, and strong.

A zealot or field marshall are going to be tougher to fight then a minor or major. Why? Cause the elites that reach that rank are among the best.

  • 04.17.2011 5:13 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Sigma617
It doesn't matter the rank of the god damn split chin.
It's just an elite hiding behind ornamental armor and honor and shields. A Field Marshall is just a slightly prettier target.


Actually, rank does matter in a few ways. To advance the ranks of Elites you have to be smart, skilled, and strong.


I remember reading somewhere, that it is belived that Elite's rank up depending on the number of casualties they inflict on their enemies.

I belive it was the Halo 2 manual?

  • 04.17.2011 5:17 PM PDT

Cmdr DaeFaron

Skirting around the fact that it was stated the Elite in hand to hand was too "evenly matched in strength" to master chief.


I'll type it out.

They wrestled for control. The gun pointed at the alien- then the Master Chief.

The alien was as strong as the Master Chief.

They spun and bounced off the floor, ceiling, and walls. They were too evenly matched."


They are wrestling for control of a weapon in a contest of pure strength. That has nothing, nothing at all to do with combat ability. I'd type out the part where John hits it ten times in hand to hand, while taking a single blow, but it's not likely to change your view. This is the internet, and no one ever concedes a point.

Yes, I counted.

In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite. John out-wrestled one, and stalemated a second in the novels. Tom (at age 12) destroyed one in hand to hand, and Jai smacked around the Arbitor before fleeing.

John was losing a wrestling match against a Brute, and Cal devestated a Chieftan in unarmed hand to hand.

It seems like Elites are the equals in terms of raw strength, and Brutes are vastly superior. But in terms of tactical prowess, it usually always goes to the Spartan.

[Edited on 04.17.2011 5:22 PM PDT]

  • 04.17.2011 5:20 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: HipiO7
I remember reading somewhere, that it is believed that Elites rank up depending on the number of casualties they inflict on their enemies.

I believe it was the Halo 2 manual?

Encyclopaedia. It may also have been in the Halo 2 manual but it was also definitely mentioned in the Encyclopaedia. All that is required is that you can kill and kill well. Intelligence and tactical/strategic ability is not required. It is the reason why individuals of questionable leadership capacity like Ripa 'Moramee were put into command positions. It is just fortunate that most high ranking Elites also develop a good sense of strategic and tactical planning as they move up. (It is correlative of increasing rank, not causative.)

  • 04.17.2011 5:26 PM PDT


Posted by: forthnback
In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite. John out-wrestled one, and stalemated a second in the novels. Tom (at age 12) destroyed one in hand to hand, and Jai smacked around the Arbitor before fleeing.

John was losing a wrestling match against a Brute, and Cal devestated a Chieftan in unarmed hand to hand.

It seems like Elites are the equals in terms of raw strength, and Brutes are vastly superior. But in terms of tactical prowess, it usually always goes to the Spartan.


When did Jai attack an arbiter? Oh and we haven't seen accounts of hand to hand combat between a Spartan and a high ranking elite, such as an Ultra, Zealot, or higher.

As far as I know it's entirely Major or below, besides the one between the black armored(spec ops?) and Master Chief.

  • 04.17.2011 7:47 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Of course it would. It took down most of Noble Team. Why not?

  • 04.17.2011 7:48 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: forthnback
In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite.


John vs Thel Lodamee

Thel beats him, but is seperated from John because of interference from the Ship Master in the Halo: Legends episode "The Package". Granted they had swords, but John still lost the actual fight.

  • 04.17.2011 7:50 PM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"

Posted by: matman25402
Of course it would. It took down most of Noble Team. Why not?


Zealot's killed Kat, Emile and Six.


Not Field Marshalls.

  • 04.17.2011 7:55 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: forthnback
In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite. John out-wrestled one, and stalemated a second in the novels. Tom (at age 12) destroyed one in hand to hand, and Jai smacked around the Arbitor before fleeing.

John was losing a wrestling match against a Brute, and Cal devestated a Chieftan in unarmed hand to hand.

It seems like Elites are the equals in terms of raw strength, and Brutes are vastly superior. But in terms of tactical prowess, it usually always goes to the Spartan.


When did Jai attack an arbiter? Oh and we haven't seen accounts of hand to hand combat between a Spartan and a high ranking elite, such as an Ultra, Zealot, or higher.

As far as I know it's entirely Major or below, besides the one between the black armored(spec ops?) and Master Chief.


He means Thel Vadamee, he was the Arbiter at the time of course. And, IIRC, Thel was a Zealot, seeing as he commanded a ship in the Cole Protocol.

  • 04.17.2011 7:58 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: talz321
think about it, they have way better shielding, are stronger have unlimited evade and can dual wield and hit at the same time.
One hit should be enough to kill a spartan ||.

discus


A Spartan III maybe. (only because their lack of experience in combat) But a Spartan II who's been fighting the Covenant since the Harvest campaigns? I don't think so. IT could be an even match.

[Edited on 04.17.2011 8:12 PM PDT]

  • 04.17.2011 8:12 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: forthnback
In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite. John out-wrestled one, and stalemated a second in the novels. Tom (at age 12) destroyed one in hand to hand, and Jai smacked around the Arbitor before fleeing.

John was losing a wrestling match against a Brute, and Cal devestated a Chieftan in unarmed hand to hand.

It seems like Elites are the equals in terms of raw strength, and Brutes are vastly superior. But in terms of tactical prowess, it usually always goes to the Spartan.


When did Jai attack an arbiter? Oh and we haven't seen accounts of hand to hand combat between a Spartan and a high ranking elite, such as an Ultra, Zealot, or higher.

As far as I know it's entirely Major or below, besides the one between the black armored(spec ops?) and Master Chief.


He means Thel Vadamee, he was the Arbiter at the time of course. And, IIRC, Thel was a Zealot, seeing as he commanded a ship in the Cole Protocol.


Guessing you mean one of Grey Team?

If so, I don't even remember that fight taking place. Sounds like it was more of a surprised smack then run instead of a hand to hand fight though.

  • 04.17.2011 8:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: forthnback
In every instance we've seen, in hand to hand a Spartan is superior or equal in terms of strength to an Elite. John out-wrestled one, and stalemated a second in the novels. Tom (at age 12) destroyed one in hand to hand, and Jai smacked around the Arbitor before fleeing.

John was losing a wrestling match against a Brute, and Cal devestated a Chieftan in unarmed hand to hand.

It seems like Elites are the equals in terms of raw strength, and Brutes are vastly superior. But in terms of tactical prowess, it usually always goes to the Spartan.


When did Jai attack an arbiter? Oh and we haven't seen accounts of hand to hand combat between a Spartan and a high ranking elite, such as an Ultra, Zealot, or higher.

As far as I know it's entirely Major or below, besides the one between the black armored(spec ops?) and Master Chief.


He means Thel Vadamee, he was the Arbiter at the time of course. And, IIRC, Thel was a Zealot, seeing as he commanded a ship in the Cole Protocol.


Guessing you mean one of Grey Team?

If so, I don't even remember that fight taking place. Sounds like it was more of a surprised smack then run instead of a hand to hand fight though.


Yeah, the Jai from Grey Team.

I believe it was right around when Faison got wounded and insisted on Delgalo leaving him behind to distract the Covenant.
Jai and Thel encountered each other shortly thereafter and had the briefest of fights, so yeah, it basically was a "hit" and "run". It was enough of a fight though for Thel to know that in, more or less, his own words "there were Humans as strong as them."

  • 04.17.2011 8:25 PM PDT

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