Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Regarding BOBS. (Read Whole Post)
  • Subject: Regarding BOBS. (Read Whole Post)
Subject: Regarding BOBS. (Read Whole Post)


Posted by: phastroh117
Wait a sec.

What do you unlock by killing the Bobs?

What I mean is you unlock Armor for the different ones on different difficulties on Reach.

I don't know what armor I have unlocked from killing a Bob if that is true. I only have 30 Kills on them but almost on each board.


Unlocking anything by killing BOBs is still just speculation at this point. As of now, no one has unlocked any armor by killing any BOBs.

  • 04.26.2011 12:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: partsunknown109

Posted by: phastroh117
Wait a sec.

What do you unlock by killing the Bobs?

What I mean is you unlock Armor for the different ones on different difficulties on Reach.

I don't know what armor I have unlocked from killing a Bob if that is true. I only have 30 Kills on them but almost on each board.


Unlocking anything by killing BOBs is still just speculation at this point. As of now, no one has unlocked any armor by killing any BOBs.


Or anything at all other than a medal on b.net.

  • 04.26.2011 12:50 PM PDT


Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: drake3011
Not being on the disk could make sence, but what if theres an opening in the code for an extention


If(NewExists(StorageDevice) == True)
{
Return NewFile;
}
Else
{
Return null;
}


Im a very basic programmer but that makes sense right? No one will find a file that isnt on there but would they notice a simple extension that might not even be worded that obviously?


Would technicly work if the structure of the files was differently.

If there was 1 data pool where the maps would go and take them, such as *note the 2 following graphs are just for examples, not the real thing*


-Reach
-----Campaign
----------each map has a file

-----Multiplayer
----------each map has a file

-----Common files
----------Armory
----------Elite skins
----------etc

, your idea would be possible.
But the way the game is constructed resembles more


-Reach
-----Campaign
----------Winter contingency
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Sword base
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Other maps

-----Multiplayer
----------Zealot
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Sword base
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Other maps

You get the concept.

Each map is then compressed.
From my basic programmer's point of view as well,
you make up a single loading structure.
You don't start making multiple loading system and start storing your data everywhere else.
You keep it clean, organized and in order.
Adding new loading systems and putting data elsewhere, in this case your putting data outside the map files assuming the game can even process it, adds the chance of errors, load failures and conflicts.

This is also assuming the game could even be able to read outside-mapfile data.


You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.

  • 04.26.2011 1:25 PM PDT

Seriously Oak, Ive been doing this -blam!- for 16 years, gimmie my Friggen starter Pokemon and dont call me till im the champion! ¬_¬


Posted by: Duo Oratar

Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: drake3011
Not being on the disk could make sence, but what if theres an opening in the code for an extention


If(NewExists(StorageDevice) == True)
{
Return NewFile;
}
Else
{
Return null;
}


Im a very basic programmer but that makes sense right? No one will find a file that isnt on there but would they notice a simple extension that might not even be worded that obviously?


Would technicly work if the structure of the files was differently.

If there was 1 data pool where the maps would go and take them, such as *note the 2 following graphs are just for examples, not the real thing*


-Reach
-----Campaign
----------each map has a file

-----Multiplayer
----------each map has a file

-----Common files
----------Armory
----------Elite skins
----------etc

, your idea would be possible.
But the way the game is constructed resembles more


-Reach
-----Campaign
----------Winter contingency
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Sword base
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Other maps

-----Multiplayer
----------Zealot
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Sword base
---------------Armory
---------------Skins
---------------etc

----------Other maps

You get the concept.

Each map is then compressed.
From my basic programmer's point of view as well,
you make up a single loading structure.
You don't start making multiple loading system and start storing your data everywhere else.
You keep it clean, organized and in order.
Adding new loading systems and putting data elsewhere, in this case your putting data outside the map files assuming the game can even process it, adds the chance of errors, load failures and conflicts.

This is also assuming the game could even be able to read outside-mapfile data.


You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.


Fair point, my Computing lecturer always brings this up, if its hard coded into each map file like that, then it would really fill up valuable space

Im assuming its C++ thats used for Reach? Or is it something much closer like assembler? If so i guess memory allocation isn't that much an issue

Wow, we keep this up we'll reverse engineer reach altogether :P

And yeah it was a java/C sort of attempt, but for namesake lets call it psuedo-code :P

  • 04.26.2011 1:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: drake3011

Posted by: Duo Oratar

You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.


Fair point, my Computing lecturer always brings this up, if its hard coded into each map file like that, then it would really fill up valuable space

Im assuming its C++ thats used for Reach? Or is it something much closer like assembler? If so i guess memory allocation isn't that much an issue

Wow, we keep this up we'll reverse engineer reach altogether :P

And yeah it was a java/C sort of attempt, but for namesake lets call it psuedo-code :P


Indeed you have to wonder who decided to place it that way since anybody that took programing courses will know to do otherwise.

But then again, they probably had their reasons to do it since both of you said, and so shall I, it takes up space.
Maybe there are some minor non-to-visible effects that change from map to map on the armor, like the lighting.

But don't forget, from what i understand form people that modded the game, the map files are alter compressed to diminish the size.

But i don't realy know what language is used for Reach :)

  • 04.26.2011 1:55 PM PDT


Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: drake3011

Posted by: Duo Oratar

You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.


Fair point, my Computing lecturer always brings this up, if its hard coded into each map file like that, then it would really fill up valuable space

Im assuming its C++ thats used for Reach? Or is it something much closer like assembler? If so i guess memory allocation isn't that much an issue

Wow, we keep this up we'll reverse engineer reach altogether :P

And yeah it was a java/C sort of attempt, but for namesake lets call it psuedo-code :P


Indeed you have to wonder who decided to place it that way since anybody that took programing courses will know to do otherwise.

But then again, they probably had their reasons to do it since both of you said, and so shall I, it takes up space.
Maybe there are some minor non-to-visible effects that change from map to map on the armor, like the lighting.

But don't forget, from what i understand form people that modded the game, the map files are alter compressed to diminish the size.

But i don't realy know what language is used for Reach :)


I'm assuming Reach was programmed in C/C++ because all of the Bungie job offers in engineering require C/C++ experience.

  • 04.26.2011 4:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: Duo Oratar

Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: drake3011

Posted by: Duo Oratar

You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.


Fair point, my Computing lecturer always brings this up, if its hard coded into each map file like that, then it would really fill up valuable space

Im assuming its C++ thats used for Reach? Or is it something much closer like assembler? If so i guess memory allocation isn't that much an issue

Wow, we keep this up we'll reverse engineer reach altogether :P

And yeah it was a java/C sort of attempt, but for namesake lets call it psuedo-code :P


Indeed you have to wonder who decided to place it that way since anybody that took programing courses will know to do otherwise.

But then again, they probably had their reasons to do it since both of you said, and so shall I, it takes up space.
Maybe there are some minor non-to-visible effects that change from map to map on the armor, like the lighting.

But don't forget, from what i understand form people that modded the game, the map files are alter compressed to diminish the size.

But i don't realy know what language is used for Reach :)


I'm assuming Reach was programmed in C/C++ because all of the Bungie job offers in engineering require C/C++ experience.



I followed a class of webdeisgn/programming, would you recommend trying to pick up some C/C++ abilities? lol.

I didn't see any of it in my classes

  • 04.26.2011 4:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: Duo Oratar

Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: drake3011

Posted by: Duo Oratar

You have to wonder who was the fool who designed that architecture, I assume there is a reason for it, but one of the first rules of programming is never duplicate something like that (I believe the precise wording is "If it's there more than twice, it needs to be seperately defined"). If I were doing it I would have a centralized pool which they would all draw from.


Fair point, my Computing lecturer always brings this up, if its hard coded into each map file like that, then it would really fill up valuable space

Im assuming its C++ thats used for Reach? Or is it something much closer like assembler? If so i guess memory allocation isn't that much an issue

Wow, we keep this up we'll reverse engineer reach altogether :P

And yeah it was a java/C sort of attempt, but for namesake lets call it psuedo-code :P


Indeed you have to wonder who decided to place it that way since anybody that took programing courses will know to do otherwise.

But then again, they probably had their reasons to do it since both of you said, and so shall I, it takes up space.
Maybe there are some minor non-to-visible effects that change from map to map on the armor, like the lighting.

But don't forget, from what i understand form people that modded the game, the map files are alter compressed to diminish the size.

But i don't realy know what language is used for Reach :)


I'm assuming Reach was programmed in C/C++ because all of the Bungie job offers in engineering require C/C++ experience.



I followed a class of webdeisgn/programming, would you recommend trying to pick up some C/C++ abilities? lol.

I didn't see any of it in my classes


Well I program in Python (brillant language) and I have done Java so I'm probably a bit biased because of newer langauges but anyway I digress.

C is very powerful, but it's also very old and confusing in my opinion, C++ is just C with OOP (object oriented programming).

to sum it up, "C gives you enough rope to hang yourself, C++ gives you a tree object to tie it to".

In on topic news:

I have worked out why nobody can attend my hunts and will be redoing the times accordingly, stay tuned folks.

  • 04.26.2011 4:53 PM PDT

Posted by: KillThatPopcorn
woort wort wort.

Why Bungie???
Was it something i wrote???

Shut the -blam!- up Kira.

And leave this thread you moody -blam!-, no one cares.

  • 04.26.2011 4:55 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: Duo Oratar
to sum it up, "C gives you enough rope to hang yourself, C++ gives you a tree object to tie it to".
.

Epic.
Anyways, might see if its worth picking up someday for webdesign.

back on-topic now.


  • 04.26.2011 4:56 PM PDT


Posted by: ClkFlynn
Shut the -blam!- up Kira.

And leave this thread you moody -blam!-, no one cares.


We were having a polite discussion about programming no need to come trolling in here.

  • 04.26.2011 5:16 PM PDT

Don't waste time or time, will, waste you.

What about Hijacking Bobshees? I dont know if its possible but on NA youd have to get him over a building, maybe then if you kill him you get the medal?

[Edited on 04.26.2011 5:24 PM PDT]

  • 04.26.2011 5:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: ClkFlynn
Shut the -blam!- up Kira.

And leave this thread you moody -blam!-, no one cares.


And they called me the troll.... oh how ironic this is and yet, quite pleasurable.

  • 04.26.2011 5:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source

Posted by: DaIcE
What about Hijacking Bobshees? I dont know if its possible but on NA youd have to get him over a building, maybe then if you kill him you get the medal?


It has been said over and over again, you CANNOT hijack bobshees.

  • 04.26.2011 5:28 PM PDT

gahhh who cares about bobshees you do not get the medal it is obviously not the bob we're looking for. move along

  • 04.26.2011 5:39 PM PDT

Don't waste time or time, will, waste you.


Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: DaIcE
What about Hijacking Bobshees? I dont know if its possible but on NA youd have to get him over a building, maybe then if you kill him you get the medal?


It has been said over and over again, you CANNOT hijack bobshees.


Sorry I didnt have the time to read all 28 pages of this post and yes I know the title says to "read the whole post."

  • 04.26.2011 5:57 PM PDT

"Everyone, fire at Will!"
"Why? What did Will ever do to you?"

Wait a tick.. you're looking for BOBs on New Alexandria?

I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, but I vaguely remember encountering a BOB on that level during the Hospital sub-mission.

I know, this post has little to no credibility, but I'm sure you all would rather have very vague leads as opposed to no leads at all.
I'd go back and look for myself, but I honestly am too busy. It was during my Heroic run through, and I had no skulls on. And it was on the way back from destroying the jammer.
I think I remember popping his shields and watching him disappear on me..

[Edited on 04.26.2011 6:17 PM PDT]

  • 04.26.2011 6:16 PM PDT

whoever wants to start a group to look for them, add me gt: WPooney

i know duo oratar wanted too but he isnt online

  • 04.26.2011 6:32 PM PDT

Don't be silly. You're not wrong because nobody is agreeing with you, you're wrong because your points are weak and poorly supported. The fact that people disagree with you is a symptom of being wrong, not the cause or the proof of it. Canary in the coal mine, so to speak.

Boy, this has really taken off since I found it. :O It only had about 5 pages a week or so ago. Are there any updates of noteworthiness I might want to know about? I've little interest in skimming 28 pages LOL.

  • 04.26.2011 10:14 PM PDT


Posted by: WPooney
whoever wants to start a group to look for them, add me gt: WPooney

i know duo oratar wanted too but he isnt online


Yea sorry about that, I came on on-time, but half an hour later nobody had showed up so I went away again, I've worked that the time I was hosting it at worked out to about 1PM EST, therefore everyone seemed to be in school and things, I might see if I can either host it on a weekend or host in later in the day.

  • 04.27.2011 1:10 AM PDT


Posted by: Duo Oratar

Posted by: WPooney
whoever wants to start a group to look for them, add me gt: WPooney

i know duo oratar wanted too but he isnt online


Yea sorry about that, I came on on-time, but half an hour later nobody had showed up so I went away again, I've worked that the time I was hosting it at worked out to about 1PM EST, therefore everyone seemed to be in school and things, I might see if I can either host it on a weekend or host in later in the day.


i see, well i can play at 1pm most days
but yeah weekends would probably be best for most people

  • 04.27.2011 6:55 AM PDT

Kira,

Whether you're a troll or not, I just want to point out that your comments as a supposed software developer hold little-to-no water.

First of all, splitting up a mesh file and having some code to re-assemble it would not consume very much space. The sum of the parts of the mesh file would be the same as if the file was in one contiguous piece, and the code to reassemble it would be very small and simple. A very small amount of overhead to disguise something on disc.

As well, you keep saying "if it were on disc, it would have been found by now." There are many simple ways you could hide mesh files... it could easily be compressed on the disc with a modified compression algorithm (thereby re-using the existing decompression code and not "wasting space" as you put it) which would essentially result in it being encrypted. This would hide it from plain sight.

Those are both very rudimentary tricks (all of which you've completely overlooked, despite your *expertise*).

And finally, you say they could not make new armour available because it's hardcoded on a per-map basis. Again, you need to think a bit. For example, say a map is hardcoded to allow armors A,B,C. You say it can't use armor D, because everything would need to be rewritten.

The easier way to do it? Overwrite armor A on the harddrive with armor D (but calling it armor A) and then it will be used. Yes, you'd clobber Armor A, but not a big loss, and a very simple way to implement what you deem is "impossible".

It's the nature of patching software. You replace a binary file with an updated version with the same name. Software development 101 (but you know this, right? :)

Sure, the scenario above describes a situation where the user has installed Reach on their harddrive, but that's not a stretch, and it sure wouldn't be the only HD-only aspect of Reach.

I'm not saying this is what has been done, just pointing out that something you claim is "impossible" would be easy to do.

[Edited on 04.27.2011 11:24 AM PDT]

  • 04.27.2011 11:19 AM PDT
Subject: Regarding BOBS. (Long Post)

There is no elites in exodus, brute BOB?? jk

  • 04.27.2011 11:25 AM PDT
Subject: Regarding BOBS. (Read Whole Post)

Seriously Oak, Ive been doing this -blam!- for 16 years, gimmie my Friggen starter Pokemon and dont call me till im the champion! ¬_¬


Posted by: MuggyBasilisk
Kira,

Whether you're a troll or not, I just want to point out that your comments as a supposed software developer hold little-to-no water.

First of all, splitting up a mesh file and having some code to re-assemble it would not consume very much space. The sum of the parts of the mesh file would be the same as if the file was in one contiguous piece, and the code to reassemble it would be very small and simple. A very small amount of overhead to disguise something on disc.

As well, you keep saying "if it were on disc, it would have been found by now." There are many simple ways you could hide mesh files... it could easily be compressed on the disc with a modified compression algorithm (thereby re-using the existing decompression code and not "wasting space" as you put it) which would essentially result in it being encrypted. This would hide it from plain sight.

Those are both very rudimentary tricks (all of which you've completely overlooked, despite your *expertise*).

And finally, you say they could not make new armour available because it's hardcoded on a per-map basis. Again, you need to think a bit. For example, say a map is hardcoded to allow armors A,B,C. You say it can't use armor D, because everything would need to be rewritten.

The easier way to do it? Overwrite armor A on the harddrive with armor D (but calling it armor A) and then it will be used. Yes, you'd clobber Armor A, but not a big loss, and a very simple way to implement what you deem is "impossible".

It's the nature of patching software. You replace a binary file with an updated version with the same name. Software development 101 (but you know this, right? :)

Sure, the scenario above describes a situation where the user has installed Reach on their harddrive, but that's not a stretch, and it sure wouldn't be the only HD-only aspect of Reach.

I'm not saying this is what has been done, just pointing out that something you claim is "impossible" would be easy to do.


It was a bungie employee who originally stated the code had the maps hard wired with the armour built into it, which as we've been saying, is very much a backwards move in all accounts for memory allocation (though this was questioned at the possibility of new armour DLC during the Defiant advertising campaign)

I think its more an understanding that the models and meshs are coded in as map objects, ones that if you were to break out of the map you'd be able to find, that the code calls into and adds physical player properties. Like the spartan thats inside the POA

It seems likely this could be wrong, but that seems to be the question at the moment, im still very much a beginner programer so i could be mistaken

But on that note, i was assuming reach is C++, ive got a conditional offer at uni as a games designer, so its something ill have to learn, been playing with some Java recently but working mostly in VB and C# (Baby Steps :P)

  • 04.27.2011 11:33 AM PDT


Posted by: MuggyBasilisk
Kira,

Whether you're a troll or not, I just want to point out that your comments as a supposed software developer hold little-to-no water.

First of all, splitting up a mesh file and having some code to re-assemble it would not consume very much space. The sum of the parts of the mesh file would be the same as if the file was in one contiguous piece, and the code to reassemble it would be very small and simple. A very small amount of overhead to disguise something on disc.

As well, you keep saying "if it were on disc, it would have been found by now." There are many simple ways you could hide mesh files... it could easily be compressed on the disc with a modified compression algorithm (thereby re-using the existing decompression code and not "wasting space" as you put it) which would essentially result in it being encrypted. This would hide it from plain sight.

Those are both very rudimentary tricks (all of which you've completely overlooked, despite your *expertise*).

And finally, you say they could not make new armour available because it's hardcoded on a per-map basis. Again, you need to think a bit. For example, say a map is hardcoded to allow armors A,B,C. You say it can't use armor D, because everything would need to be rewritten.

The easier way to do it? Overwrite armor A on the harddrive with armor D (but calling it armor A) and then it will be used. Yes, you'd clobber Armor A, but not a big loss, and a very simple way to implement what you deem is "impossible".

It's the nature of patching software. You replace a binary file with an updated version with the same name. Software development 101 (but you know this, right? :)

Sure, the scenario above describes a situation where the user has installed Reach on their harddrive, but that's not a stretch, and it sure wouldn't be the only HD-only aspect of Reach.

I'm not saying this is what has been done, just pointing out that something you claim is "impossible" would be easy to do.


While you have many good points, the idea of replacing one armor with another is not a good one. Yes that is the nature of patching, but how could you patch the BoB helmet in by say, wiping out the EOD helmet without causing an absolute firestorm among the lovers of the EOD helmet?

  • 04.27.2011 11:36 AM PDT