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Subject: Halo Exploits - Do They Ruin the Game?
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I agree with Rip Saw on many of his points, except one:
[quote]If people want fairness, don't play a game with glitches over the net. Play it in a LAN where you can physically reach out and beat people.]
I'm sorry, but that just plain isn't fair. Just as it is not your fault that the glitches are there and you *have* to use them to be competitive, it is also not some semi-casual Halo player's fault that the glitches are there for you to use. They should be just as able to host a game over XBC without including players who choose to use the glitches as you are to use the glitches. You don't have to join their game and ruin their fun. Also, Lag is just as likely to affect any player in a game, which does make it an even playing ground. And lastly, when I, as a player who will play his first Halo game over X-box live with Halo 2, hear about this kind of style of thinking about the game and competition, it makes more than a little apprehensive to step out into the apparently cutthroat arena of Halo over the net.

  • 08.28.2004 11:28 PM PDT

bah

Many of these glitches are all but impossible to pull off with lag anyways. They require precise timing, but they're relatively easy to pull off. A fisrt day player could be taught all of these glitches. Now, leaving the map is unfair since even great players have trouble doing this. The only way to get good at map leaving is to practice, and that's not fair. Is it cheating to use an overshield to become invincible and blast yourself somewhere with a rocket? That's a glitch, an oversight, yet no one here will call it cheating, except those who can't do it. It's just a game. Either learn to play it properly, or learn to stop -blam!-ing about those who have.

  • 08.29.2004 12:28 AM PDT
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Over XBC, there is no fair ground. There is always LAG. Play on a LAN. If we're on a LAN, and we say no glitches, I won't use them.
Hehehe... Well, you've got us there. You see, people don't like to share these things, because it gives them an edge. Well, I share these with my friends, but only after I've dominated them once or twice, just to show how clever I am. That's cheating.

This is really hard, cos I know you're a nice guy... but there are some things that are just silly. You say that using tehm isn't cheating only to reveal that, as I said, using them against people who don't know them is. Now you may say "But everybody knows them" well I don't even with you mentioning a few of them, it's not going to stay in my head past me dismissing it as cheating, and nobody I know uses any of them nor knows about them... I asked specifically for this thread. So you 'dominate' a whole bunch of people by cheating as you said, and then you tell your friends what you've done to show how clever you are... so what about people who you don't know? Unwitting victims of this abuse of game faults?

And lag happens to everyone... look at Counterstrike... the biggest problem with that game is the fact that the realism kicks in, making you dead before your laggy computer even registers an enemy presence so what do you do? Deal with it, get better. Or you can do what a few people I know do (cough pigsy cough) and that is mod the game or cheat in whatever way possible for an unfair advantage... now you may say thats ok cos they have lag, but these people continue using them even when they play at LAN parties.

And I also recall you saying that you only use these because other people use them and therefore you need them to play a fair fight... but you also said that "anyone who is good enough can beat a player no matter how bad he cheats". And another thought is... if everyone is doing it out of fear that others will do it, where does the cycle end? You're digging your own grave by this pre-emptive strike on cheaters by becoming the enemy you seek to defeat.

I hope I've been understood, and that no offense has been taken.
Tristan

  • 08.29.2004 6:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Rip Saw
Either learn to play it properly, or learn to stop -blam!-ing about those who have.


I'm inspired, lol. I would also like to add that I could beat legendary way before I learned any of these gltiches/cheats (whatever you want to call them). I learned most of them a month ago so it hasn't been that long. I just think it's the way you play the game. Anyone who uses these glitches and gets flammed for using them doesn't care because they have just raised their skill level (looking for things that will help them win at any cost). I don't see it as cheating. I don't like people that get off the maps (especially SW), that is just cheap IN MY OPINION. Sorry for the caps, but this subject is still and always will be based on opinions (as many are).

So I consider them not cheating. They are just things to use to your advantage. That's what I think about this.

It may be cheap to use against people who have no idea what these are, but like many others out in the world. I will do whatever I need to, to win.

  • 08.29.2004 7:28 AM PDT
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I like to use these cheats/glitches to amaze my friends at LAN games. I'll pull it off once or twice right infront of them and then show them how to do it later.

The flag throw on Blood Gulch got the best response, it took me 20 minutes to do it properly.

I don't use them in Campaign for the reason that its much slower.

I will usually use "Backpack reloading" to my advantage in a Multiplayer game, but its not like its cheating as a retarded monkey could pick up how to do it in 5 minutes. Its only a little button bashing, not like some illaborate sequence that gets you a major advantage.

  • 08.29.2004 5:00 PM PDT
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I think they ruin the game. I don't know ANY of them except the quick reload which I've known for a while. I don't know how to do the others but there are cheating. It takes no skill to do them but they screw over the people who don't know how to use them and/or won't lower themselves by doing them. So anyone doing those things over the net on this game should be kicked off. I haven't played halo on the net yet but if I ever do I'd be really PO if someone was doing those things to take advantege of me.

  • 08.29.2004 5:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Elite_elite
I'd be really PO if someone was doing those things to take advantege of me.


I'm sorry but when I look at your words like that, it makes me feel like I'm listening to a person who's fighting a in a relationship with someone, lol.

I did edit his real post which is here:

I think they ruin the game. I don't know ANY of them except the quick reload which I've known for a while. I don't know how to do the others but there are cheating. It takes no skill to do them but they screw over the people who don't know how to use them and/or won't lower themselves by doing them. So anyone doing those things over the net on this game should be kicked off. I haven't played halo on the net yet but if I ever do I'd be really PO if someone was doing those things to take advantege of me.

  • 08.29.2004 6:48 PM PDT
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Wow. What you just said is dumb, really dumb. So dumb, I can't even tell you why. Dumb.


Ignored.

How do yuo even know? Maybe Bungie put these in so they could cheat. There's a reason old-skool always beats the guys with quick reflexes.

That's inane. There's no point in trying to comprehend this statement; I think even YOU know it's stupid.



No, this proves I am intelligent, and willing to use evreything at my disposal to win.

Cheating is not intelligent. Cheating is cheating. Don't try to back out of this by saying "i'm just using a glitch in the system blah blah blah." You are exploiting something in the system that was not meant to be there. That is cheating.
And last time I checked, "everything at your disposal" did not include cheating. It meant playing the game fair using PROPER skills, what bungie provided you with, not exploiting a glitch and cheating. If someone cheats in Counterstrike, is he using everything in his disposal? NO. He is cheating. That's the same you are doing.

If I knew for sure that they wouldn't cheat, I wouldn't. But I don't know that, so I'll use them.

Now you're using silly logic to explain your point. I just... can't explain how absolutely backwards that is...

If people want fairness, don't play a game with glitches over the net. Play it in a LAN where you can physically reach out and beat people.

If I followed your directions I'd never play another multiplayer game ever again. Ever. On PC or Xbox. Almost EVERY time I've ever played a game online, EVERY time, ON XBC, on Live, over the internet, people have played fair, by playing within the boundaries the game lays out. If someone doesn't, guess what happens to him? He gets KICKED. (Most) people EXPECT the people they play against to play properly. They have belief that the rest of humanity is not filled with jackasses who cheat to win. You help lower that belief.

It's very apparent to me that you don't ever use these "cheats."

No, I like to play within the boundaries laid down by the game and enjoy myself, not worrying about if the guy I'm playing is cheating.

If you did, you'd realize that they don't make or break a game. Any good player can defeat a bad player, no matter how much the bad player uses "cheats."

That doesn't make them cheats any less. You're trying to prove something here by saying "Well they don't change the game very much." I can go around Unreal with infinite ammo, and still die. That doesn't make it any less of a cheat. I have an advantage over the other players. I am cheating. You are exploting glitchs that not everyone knows about, or people don't use because they have moral boundries. That is cheating.

Name the time, I'll be there to kick your ass at Halo 2 (after 3:00 PM, and after the first week, and assuming my friend lets me come over to play over LIVE as I have 56k).

I'll have to see about that.

No, I'm good enough to believe I can beat all the stupid ignorant people out there

People who don't cheat aren't ignorant. They either
* Don't Care to cheat because they want to enjoy themselves and not worry about that crap.

* Don't know about them.

YOU are stupid and ignorant. End of story.

  • 08.29.2004 10:38 PM PDT
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I don't even know how to do them, and none of my friends do, so, for me, no.

  • 08.29.2004 11:19 PM PDT

bah

Fine, I ask you 3 questions then:
1. Is spawn camping cheating?
2. Is porter blocking cheating?
3. Is going all out and slaughtering your enemies cheating?

Yes, I know Bungie didn't put them in the game, I was being "cute."

If I knew someone wouldn't cheat, I wouldn't. If I knew that that guy over there who said he was going to kill me in one minute didn't have a gun, I wouldn't shoot him from where I stood. Premptive strike man. If you stood there with a gun at my head, and me with a gun at yours, and you said "In 3 seconds we fire" I'd fire at 2, just in case you had the same idea.

If you'd ever tried infinite ammo in Halo, you would know that it is entirely impractical unless you're using rockets, and you stay in one place. I don't know about you, but staying in one place is a bad idea. Also, the backpack reloading isn't very effective unless you're retreating/laying down fire. These aren't like Counter Strike where you can cheat by running around never reloading. To have infinite, you need to reload, and then some. Most of these glitches are completely innefective agains anyone with any skill what-so-ever. Only good agains new guys. You use the glitch, tell them how it's done, and now you're level of competition just went up a little bit. Well, not really as the glitches don't work on good players, but now they have a way to beat their friends.

Just remember to ask me about a game of Halo 2 over XBL. You'll get a good schooling, and in the interest of fairness, I won't use any glitches.

And also in the interest of fairness, I'll now share all of these glitches.
1. Quick invis: Simply fire off a round of plasma rifle or AR right after invis starts.
2. Backpack reload: Hit reload twice, then switch. Allow time for weapon to reload.
3. Double melee: Melee, grenade, melee. Very effective.
4. Quick reload: Reload the weapon and then melee about halfway through.
5. Infinite ammo: Reload the weapon, then promptly drop it. Wait for it to reload on the ground. You must wait the whole time for it to reload. Watch out fro snipers as they will appreciate you staying in one spot.

See how lame these glitches are? You can use the infinite maybe twice before your enemies catch on. Doube melee, quick invis, and backpack are the only 3 that really matter, and only the backpack is a universal scenario glitch.

You can use these on me, but it won't be a big enough advantage to turn the match. Maybe if a team was using these and the other wasn't, it would matter. But that would be cheap. Your enemies have to know about these for them to be fair. Let them be stupid and not use them if they choose, but at least my conscious is clear.

P.S. I have never played XBC anyways. Only LANs.

  • 08.29.2004 11:38 PM PDT
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Sorry Rip Saw but you're talking yourself in circles again.

Well, not really as the glitches don't work on good players, but now they have a way to beat their friends.

So you're afraid of cheats being used against a good player like yourself who the won't work on? I may sound really provoking or 'flamey' here but that is one of teh worst arguments I've seen proposed in these forums.

Not only this, but you tell us how they're so difficult to use and yet continue using them anyway... not only that, but you use them to your advantage against new players... Somehow I don't see your example of a gun held to your head anywhere... it seems to come closer to Rip Saw with a rocket launcher vs a kindergarten.

Your enemies have to know about these for them to be fair.

Yet again you seem to assume that everyone knows and understands these when that is far from the truth, as I have already told you.

And one last little comment for you to think about...
I will use whatever means necessary to win
Now if that doesn't sound like an excuse for cheating and a bad one at that, then I don't know what is... (please note the high levels of sarcasm emmenating from the last sentence)

Sorry to do it to you man, but you really aren't maknig any sense
Tristan

  • 08.30.2004 2:13 AM PDT
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I have never played Halo over the net, but I bet there's loads of players that use these things. Wouldn't you look up on these "cheats" if you were getting your ass kicked by some pro?

I just play LAN and if I think the majority of the players don't know the "cheats" then I won't use them, as much. Like I said earlier, I'll usually flaunt right infront of the people that don't know just to show it off; then I'll tell (and show) them after the match has finished. If the people I'm playing are as good as me and know these "cheats" then I'm happy to use the majority of them as I know my friends are equally capable to pull the stunt off as I am.

Here's my view on the matter:
If its people that aren't as skilled as me, then I won't use the cheats; I can beat them easily without them because the gameplay feels a hell of a lot slower. When its people of equal skill, then chances are they know the "cheats" and everyone is happy to let them occur; it makes the gameplay a lot quicker and the battles more intense. The main rule I have is "I will only use things that will help me in battle, not things that give me a blatent advantage". So basically I'll be using "Backpack Reloading" but not getting on top of Sidewinder with a Sniper Rifle, that's just wrong.

  • 08.30.2004 6:18 AM PDT
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[color=lime] when I play Halo I use any trick or glitch I possibly can except unlimited rocket reload (unless I notice someone using the trick).

Why??? Because the ELITE players I play against use the same tricks. sorry to break it to some of you but winning is what alot of people consider fun. Not simply playing the game. Yea it may be "FUN" to a player if someone goes easy on them by not doing these tricks they know, but its not fun if your the player that has to hold back because this lame oponenent of theirs keeps -blam!-ing at every little thing they do.
"waaaaaaaahhh you used rocket twice in a row!!!" Well, if you were a SMART player you would be looking out for it around the time it appears! ITS CALLED COMMON SENSE!!! If its the best weapon, then OBVIOUSLY a good player will get it!!!

1. Quick reload: Reload long reload time weapons faster.
2. Infinite ammo: Not practical with anything but rockets.
3. Double melee: Melee, chuck a 'nade, then melee again, step back.
4. Never reload: Fire, switch weapons, fire some more, switch back, gun reloaded.
5. Quick inviz: Become invisible in an instant.

1. glitch, hardly is usefull, half the time somone is reloading and melee'ing, they are messing up and my reloaded weapon is taking them out.

2. infinite ammo - glitch, cheap.

3. double melee - probably glitch but it REQUIRES SKILL to use it correctly

4. Never reload/reload while gun is put away- this is not a glitch. what makes you think pushing a one button one more time creates a glitch? If you read the weekly updates often you would notice the mp designers throw in little tricks for themselves, and this is obviously one of them

5. quick invis- this isnt a glitch and you can fire a pistol round off and quickly switch to ass. rifle and become invis efen quicker [/color]

  • 08.30.2004 9:47 AM PDT
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i just use tricks that make things easier, but they are not cheats, i know a great glitch on protect the flag matches, but never will i tell anyone!

speaking of which, when its time reload i dont bother with this reload, switch, switch back, its loaded?
which in short is basically X,X,Y,Y when all i need to do is press X once...get in cover or throw a nade and the gun reloads...then starts shooting again...and guess what....i did it all with out switching weapons!

  • 08.30.2004 10:39 AM PDT

bah

Posted by: Gaara of Sand
So you're afraid of cheats being used against a good player like yourself who the won't work on? I may sound really provoking or 'flamey' here but that is one of teh worst arguments I've seen proposed in these forums.
I'm not afraid of these glitches, they are very innefective on me. Doing backpack reload is useless, because either you'll be dead, or I will. Infinite rockets gives me an excuse to snipe you, and the quick inviz, well, I'd like to see you grab that inviz with me watching it.Not only this, but you tell us how they're so difficult to use and yet continue using them anyway...They are easy to pull off, but they are difficult to use on advanced players. Advanced players are merely too good to notice a difference.Yet again you seem to assume that everyone knows and understands these when that is far from the truth, as I have already told you.I tell my enemies about them. i like to share. Have I played everyone? No, that's why lots of people don't know.And one last little comment for you to think about...
I will use whatever means necessary to win
Now if that doesn't sound like an excuse for cheating and a bad one at that, then I don't know what is... (please note the high levels of sarcasm emmenating from the last sentence)
I already told you, it's not cheating, it's using well-known glitches to leverage a small advantage over someone. Against really good players, they are all but useless as the game goes by so fast. Most of these glitches take an action that requires a long time, and shorten it. With good players, there is no time to empty a clip, there is no time to throw down your weapon, there is no time to get in close for a double melee, there just isn't enough time.Sorry to do it to you man, but you really aren't maknig any senseWhatever. If I played you, either I'd be way better, and the glitches would be a waste of my time, or we'd be equall and the game would go too fast for them to be effective. The best way to use them is when you're on a team, you just got someone with the sniper, and you packpack reload with the pistol out as defence. Try using them and you'll see they can't possibly ruin a game.

  • 08.31.2004 12:38 AM PDT
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*shakes head*
Still you maintain that the glitches make "no difference in a game versus good people" and claim to be one of these 'good players' that the 'glitches' won't work on. Then why are you afraid of people using them on you? Your own words were that you use them because other people use them on you, but why does that matter if you are too good for them to effect you?

It sounds alot like you're just playing with a habit that you can't break, and just covering yourself for it... because your argument doesn't flow, it keeps taking backwards steps.

  • 08.31.2004 2:02 AM PDT
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If you have real skill then these glitches really don't matter. Let's say in a tournament. Most people will be concentrating and it will be a fast paced game, that those few seconds of realoading might only tip the scale slightly, or won't matter that much. Plus if you're good 3 shots to the head with pistol is all you need. Thanks for the tricks though.

  • 08.31.2004 2:55 AM PDT
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most of this stuff isn't cheating its just a freakin glitch. cheating is onesided. glitches can be used by anyone. besides, all the good glitches are in single player or coop. ahh to have an AR fire rockets... but glitches are fun and hard to get sometimes making them challenging. if you've beaten the game what else is there to do than explore it? i'd get so bored with this game if there were no glitches. the only one i don't like is the unlimited ammo glitch because you lose it so easily. getting on top of maps is fine because you can get a few shots at people with a sniper rifle, but unless you've stocked up on ammo or your playing slayer, why would you stay up there? if i'm playing ctf and sniping from the top of the map, how is that helping my team? sure its impossible to find me unless you follow the contrails of the sniper rifle, but how can i really help anyone, since you have to guess at where someone will be at those ranges. you can't just shoot a bit ahead of them you gotta shoot 5 feet ahead of them.

  • 08.31.2004 4:30 AM PDT

bah

Posted by: Gaara of Sand
*shakes head*
Still you maintain that the glitches make "no difference in a game versus good people" and claim to be one of these 'good players' that the 'glitches' won't work on. Then why are you afraid of people using them on you? Your own words were that you use them because other people use them on you, but why does that matter if you are too good for them to effect you?
Ah, now I understand. They are very non-effective in one-on-one scenarios, but if you just killed this player with the pistol, and are reloading as his buddy comes over the hill, you're screwed. And if they might be making it so they can't be caught off-guard, then I don't want to be either. These glitches simply eliminate that form of balance Bungie threw in called down time between actions.

P.S. If I had it my way, there'd be no glitches. They aren't as fun, but they make you safer in big battles.

  • 09.01.2004 12:56 AM PDT
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I understand what you are saying, but you, and others, maintain that you're too good for the things to work anyway so why bother? Set the standard by showing off your true skills and when they say "Are you backpack reloading?" or whatever just respond with "Nah mate, too good for that ;-)"
I agree with your PS, but don't see how that helps your case :P I hope that such 'glitches' are removed for Halo 2, because whether we agree on them being cheats or not... they are an advantage that shouldn't exist.

You're quite attatched to this thread aren't you Rip?

  • 09.01.2004 1:36 AM PDT
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lol advanced gamers dont use some of those in the mlg you are disqualified if u use infinite ammo those other ones are alright though

  • 09.01.2004 6:53 PM PDT

bah

I'm too good for them to work on me. But if my bud just died and I rush over the hill, and get a pistol sandwich due to the other guy using backpack reloading, I'll know I should have been more carefull. It keeps you on your toes. The only reason I use them a lot is because it's always me vs. 5 other guys, or 6, or 7. Then, they are really helpful in keeping me dangerous. There isn't a moment when I can be caught with my thumbb up my, er... barrel, so to speak. Maybe if I played more normal games I'd use them less often.

  • 09.01.2004 8:01 PM PDT

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