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  • Subject: Noble 6, better than most S-IIs?
Subject: Noble 6, better than most S-IIs?

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And John royally -blam!- himself up by doing that. If I remember right, he couldn't move that far after it and had to wait for MEDICAL EVAC.

Just another canonical oversight by the S-II fanclub.

  • 04.19.2011 2:44 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And John royally -blam!- himself up by doing that. If I remember right, he couldn't move that far after it and had to wait for MEDICAL EVAC.

Just another canonical oversight by the S-II fanclub.


he still did it. medical evac > being blown to bits, especially when considering the fact that it was just him and a MISSILE fired from a JET lol.
spartan II's are generally more badass, i think that is what it comes down to.

BACK ON TOPIC
i still think 6 would have been better than MOST of the spartan II's, because he was an exceptionally talented S-III

  • 04.19.2011 2:51 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And John royally -blam!- himself up by doing that. If I remember right, he couldn't move that far after it and had to wait for MEDICAL EVAC.

Just another canonical oversight by the S-II fanclub.


he still did it. medical evac > being blown to bits, especially when considering the fact that it was just him and a MISSILE fired from a JET lol.
spartan II's are generally more badass, i think that is what it comes down to.

BACK ON TOPIC
i still think 6 would have been better than MOST of the spartan II's, because he was an exceptionally talented S-III

Yeah, he did it. Except he only did it because he had Cortana helping him. Forgot that part didn't you?

  • 04.19.2011 2:55 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And John royally -blam!- himself up by doing that. If I remember right, he couldn't move that far after it and had to wait for MEDICAL EVAC.

Just another canonical oversight by the S-II fanclub.


he still did it. medical evac > being blown to bits, especially when considering the fact that it was just him and a MISSILE fired from a JET lol.
spartan II's are generally more badass, i think that is what it comes down to.

BACK ON TOPIC
i still think 6 would have been better than MOST of the spartan II's, because he was an exceptionally talented S-III

Yeah, he did it. Except he only did it because he had Cortana helping him. Forgot that part didn't you?


yes i did, but it is irrelevant when dealing with the actual point of this thread. good job with...fact-checking, i guess?

  • 04.19.2011 3:04 PM PDT


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And John royally -blam!- himself up by doing that. If I remember right, he couldn't move that far after it and had to wait for MEDICAL EVAC.

Just another canonical oversight by the S-II fanclub.


he still did it. medical evac > being blown to bits, especially when considering the fact that it was just him and a MISSILE fired from a JET lol.
spartan II's are generally more badass, i think that is what it comes down to.

BACK ON TOPIC
i still think 6 would have been better than MOST of the spartan II's, because he was an exceptionally talented S-III

Yeah, he did it. Except he only did it because he had Cortana helping him. Forgot that part didn't you?


yes i did, but it is irrelevant when dealing with the actual point of this thread. good job with...fact-checking, i guess?


Spartan IIs have been described as badass. Spartan IIIs have also been.

I mean, come on! You really call a bunch of 12 to 14 year old kids in SPI armor CHARGING a Covenant army, disarming and stealing the energy swords, and KICKING ass not badass? Or the fact the charge was broken because the Covenant had to bring in battlecruisers?

  • 04.19.2011 3:08 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Spartan IIs have been described as badass. Spartan IIIs have also been.

I mean, come on! You really call a bunch of 12 to 14 year old kids in SPI armor CHARGING a Covenant army, disarming and stealing the energy swords, and KICKING ass not badass? Or the fact the charge was broken because the Covenant had to bring in battlecruisers?


I would, but the fact that they don't survive their missions makes it a little less-so. one-time badassery just isn't quite as good as the repeated badassery of John and his team.

The S-III's were badass, but it would have been better if some were left after their missions :P

  • 04.19.2011 3:10 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Spartan IIs have been described as badass. Spartan IIIs have also been.

I mean, come on! You really call a bunch of 12 to 14 year old kids in SPI armor CHARGING a Covenant army, disarming and stealing the energy swords, and KICKING ass not badass? Or the fact the charge was broken because the Covenant had to bring in battlecruisers?


I would, but the fact that they don't survive their missions makes it a little less-so. one-time badassery just isn't quite as good as the repeated badassery of John and his team.

The S-III's were badass, but it would have been better if some were left after their missions :P

Ah yes, the badassery of John and his team getting captured by Innes, you know the people they were trained to kill, is off the charts. And let's not forget John getting ambushed by Grunts and almost becoming infected by infection Forms.

And they say Emile lacked situational awareness.

  • 04.19.2011 3:12 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Spartan IIs have been described as badass. Spartan IIIs have also been.

I mean, come on! You really call a bunch of 12 to 14 year old kids in SPI armor CHARGING a Covenant army, disarming and stealing the energy swords, and KICKING ass not badass? Or the fact the charge was broken because the Covenant had to bring in battlecruisers?


I would, but the fact that they don't survive their missions makes it a little less-so. one-time badassery just isn't quite as good as the repeated badassery of John and his team.

The S-III's were badass, but it would have been better if some were left after their missions :P

Ah yes, the badassery of John and his team getting captured by Innes, you know the people they were trained to kill, is off the charts. And let's not forget John getting ambushed by Grunts and almost becoming infected by infection Forms.

And they say Emile lacked situational awareness.


lol, two slip-ups. one of which happened while they were already inside an Innie space station, without armor.

they all had extremely long, extremely decorated military careers.

actually, Kat is the one that lacked situational awareness.

[Edited on 04.19.2011 3:17 PM PDT]

  • 04.19.2011 3:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Spartan IIs have been described as badass. Spartan IIIs have also been.

I mean, come on! You really call a bunch of 12 to 14 year old kids in SPI armor CHARGING a Covenant army, disarming and stealing the energy swords, and KICKING ass not badass? Or the fact the charge was broken because the Covenant had to bring in battlecruisers?


I would, but the fact that they don't survive their missions makes it a little less-so. one-time badassery just isn't quite as good as the repeated badassery of John and his team.

The S-III's were badass, but it would have been better if some were left after their missions :P

Ah yes, the badassery of John and his team getting captured by Innes, you know the people they were trained to kill, is off the charts. And let's not forget John getting ambushed by Grunts and almost becoming infected by infection Forms.

And they say Emile lacked situational awareness.


lol, two slip-ups. one of which happened while they were already inside an Innie space station, without armor.

they all had extremely long, extremely decorated military careers.

actually, Kat is the one that lacked situational awareness.

And James. And Daisy. And Grace.

  • 04.19.2011 3:18 PM PDT

Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.

  • 04.19.2011 3:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.


hadn't they been ambushed and EMP'd?

  • 04.19.2011 3:26 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.


hadn't they been ambushed and EMP'd?

Because they just blindly went in. So badass.

  • 04.19.2011 3:27 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.


hadn't they been ambushed and EMP'd?

Because they just blindly went in. So badass.


a small hitch that they survived lol.
despite their few slip-ups, i still think they're better than spartan threes

  • 04.19.2011 3:31 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.


hadn't they been ambushed and EMP'd?

Because they just blindly went in. So badass.


a small hitch that they survived lol.
despite their few slip-ups, i still think they're better than spartan threes

They are equal. If the S-IIIs had all the same technology and equipment the S-IIs had, the S-IIIs would overpower and outperform the S-IIs every time.

  • 04.19.2011 3:33 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, John was nearly captured long after that. He was in full Mark IV armor.


hadn't they been ambushed and EMP'd?

Because they just blindly went in. So badass.


a small hitch that they survived lol.
despite their few slip-ups, i still think they're better than spartan threes

They are equal. If the S-IIIs had all the same technology and equipment the S-IIs had, the S-IIIs would overpower and outperform the S-IIs every time.


but Ackerson didn't want to spend all that money to get them equal equipment (in ghosts of onyx, i remember Halsey expressing doubts about the quality of their augmentations and their armor was clearly not as good), so there ya go.

  • 04.19.2011 3:39 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
but Ackerson didn't want to spend all that money to get them equal equipment (in ghosts of onyx, i remember Halsey expressing doubts about the quality of their augmentations and their armor was clearly not as good), so there ya go.

And that shows how they are bad how? Even with their bad armor and "bad" augmentations according to Halsey, they took out high-priority Covenant targets and would only die against overwhelming force, force that would kill any S-II. Hell, Lucy and Tom destroyed an Onyx Sentinel Production Facility in their SPI armor and defended the Micro Dyson Sphere until they were forced to go inside of it by Kurt. And Lucy was only about 5 feet in height.

So even with the odds stacked against them, they did their duty valiantly.

[Edited on 04.19.2011 3:43 PM PDT]

  • 04.19.2011 3:42 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
but Ackerson didn't want to spend all that money to get them equal equipment (in ghosts of onyx, i remember Halsey expressing doubts about the quality of their augmentations and their armor was clearly not as good), so there ya go.

That's why he said "if", it's a hypothetical scenario. But from what we've seen from the IIIs who were given MJOLNIR and the opportunity to gain the all impotant experience that the IIs had I think it's pretty obvious they are not inferior at all. The Headhunters were noted to be more effective than the IIs at infiltration ops, Noble 6 is the only oter Spartan to equal the lethality of the Chief, by his/her self taking down entire Innie organisations, Halsey notes that Jun is an un-rivalled marksman putting him at least on par with Linda.

A fully developed III is equal to a II.

  • 04.19.2011 3:49 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
but Ackerson didn't want to spend all that money to get them equal equipment (in ghosts of onyx, i remember Halsey expressing doubts about the quality of their augmentations and their armor was clearly not as good), so there ya go.

And that shows how they are bad how? Even with their bad armor and "bad" augmentations according to Halsey, they took out high-priority Covenant targets and would only die against overwhelming force, force that would kill any S-II. Hell, Lucy and Tom destroyed an Onyx Sentinel Production Facility in their SPI armor and defended the Micro Dyson Sphere until they were forced to go inside of it by Kurt. And Lucy was only about 5 feet in height.

So even with the odds stacked against them, they did their duty valiantly.


Even then, Halsey didn't know what their augmentations where. Everything I've read pointed to same end results (bar the removal of one of the S2 augmentations.

  • 04.19.2011 4:05 PM PDT

yas334229812

Here's my take. Spartan 2's had a more deadly augmentation which actually made them bigger than humans. while spartan 3's got a different one. Which was more based on getting better but also being able to finish the job whether dead or alive. As in Onyx one of the spartan 3's although supposed to be dead carried on fighting due to a hormone. Something that the 2's didnt get.

The 3's were trained for team work and being able to reach their objectives. not how to survive. While 2's were taught how to get out alive and finish their objectives. Yes both started at young age but 2's were given better training but due to the game the 3's have been overpowered and 2's were underpowered.

Also Noble team was noticed fighting most of the time with marines and with artillery weaponry. While 2's usually entered enemy space with no space defense and having to kill the enemy with no marine support. But yes 3's did get camo to get most of their objectives done quietly. while the 2's had no shield until around reach. plus noble team got their mk5 earlier than the 2's.

So basically 2's were supposed to be really strong while 3's are weaker. but its mainly based on luck which most 2's didnt. Also some really great potential 2's failed the augmentation not because they suck but they could be taken care of while the augmentation happened.

Books and more realisticly
2>3
although some 3's can be better than 2's in their field.

In game
2=3
a bit of a pull but truly 2's should have an edge over 3's

Overall in a team 3's are better in objectives etc. but in survival and getting objective done 2's are better. Survival rating usually points to 2's. considering they have lost about 30 or less. while 3's have lost greater than 300 but that is arguable based on armor. still the 3's could have been given better armor and upgraded for increased survivability. This could have signified hell for the covies. plus i believe there should be more 3's alive with either mk4 or mk5 armor. Hopefully deep in covie space or remnanents taking on covie on remaining human colonies or on earth on special mission which are not really based on killing covies but holding on to certain important things. Or even combating flood infected planets after halo 2 remember grave mind could have sent ships to other planets to keep the flood alive.

  • 04.19.2011 6:23 PM PDT


Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Three pages into this discussion and some folks honestly believe that because the S-IIIs died, they suck.
They died a lot more often eve nwhen outfitted with the same technology as the spartan II's headhunter teams, Noble team, guantlent, and echo. All of the teams must have constantly taken casulties as there were always new replacements for the teams pulled from beta, or other sources. Spartan III's were very efficient and deadly right up there with the spartan II's.
But the spartan II's were one pedistal higher.

They are of equal strength and value.

Yes, Noble, Gauntlet, Echo, and the Headhunters died even with more advanced technology. However, Noble surived over 20 years of operations and missions, as did Echo and Guantlet I would imagine. And come on, is it really bad that they died on REACH? Reach was the grave of numerous Spartan-IIs.
Yes it is true Noble did survive a long time and so did the other spartan III teams. They still constatnly mounted up casualties a lot more often than any spartan II team did. Noble lost four of its original members and god knows how many replacements.

Also Reach was bound to fall and most spartans did die on Reach regardless of class. Defending Reach in itself was a suidice mission as the covenant came with over 300 ships one of the largest covenant fleets seen at the time. There was no hope. Even for spartans.


I'm only really replying to your first paragraph. It is never said how many replacements Noble Team has received over the year, all we know is that the position of Noble Six has been replaced twice, once with Thom and once with S312.

The SIIs are really no better than the SIII teams like Noble except in that they have a lot more experience fighting. Almost every OP Blue Team has undergone they've lost at least one Spartan. When they first got Mjolner they lost Sam, and then going to wipe the Circumference Chief lost both James (or was it Josh?) and Linda (granted she was revived in the next book, but still), Solomon and Arthur when they went to rescue Halsey in the Package, Will in Ghosts of Onyx, and a great deal of them in First Strike.

So really Spartan IIs and IIIs aren't even really that different in strength or effectiveness. Yes the SIIs may have better tech than most of the SIIIs, but if you boil it down to the bare bones of the matter, they're equal in strength.

  • 04.19.2011 7:33 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Here's my take. Spartan 2's had a more deadly augmentation which actually made them bigger than humans. while spartan 3's got a different one. Which was more based on getting better but also being able to finish the job whether dead or alive. As in Onyx one of the spartan 3's although supposed to be dead carried on fighting due to a hormone. Something that the 2's didnt get.

Jun is as tall as John......

The 3's were trained for team work and being able to reach their objectives. not how to survive. While 2's were taught how to get out alive and finish their objectives. Yes both started at young age but 2's were given better training but due to the game the 3's have been overpowered and 2's were underpowered.

Not really, The Spartan III's were trained to rely more on teamwork and superior tactics as opposed to the Spartan II's who used advanced equipment (MJOLNIR). And no, Spartan II's didn't get better training, it's actually the other way around, seeing how both Kurt and Mendez trained the Spartan III's, so not only did they get training from the man who trained the Spartan II's but also by a Spartan II.

Also Noble team was noticed fighting most of the time with marines and with artillery weaponry. While 2's usually entered enemy space with no space defense and having to kill the enemy with no marine support. But yes 3's did get camo to get most of their objectives done quietly. while the 2's had no shield until around reach. plus noble team got their mk5 earlier than the 2's.

From what I've seen in all of the games, John is always being helped by Marines and ODSTs, with Warthogs being dropped for him in most levels, so that's a no too. If you knew about the Spartan III history then you'd know that nobody knew about them outside of their project (HIGH COMM and the likes), with Noble being an exception and not even them were known to be Spartan III's by the public.

So basically 2's were supposed to be really strong while 3's are weaker. but its mainly based on luck which most 2's didnt. Also some really great potential 2's failed the augmentation not because they suck but they could be taken care of while the augmentation happened.

I don't see how they are supposed to be stronger, seeing how they got the same augmentations, the only difference being the advance of technology between the augmentation dates between both projects, that made the casualty rate to drop from 56 to 0 percent.

Books and more realisticly
2>3
although some 3's can be better than 2's in their field.

In game
2=3
a bit of a pull but truly 2's should have an edge over 3's


The only pull they have over the Spartan III's is the experience and the equipment, that's about it.

Overall in a team 3's are better in objectives etc. but in survival and getting objective done 2's are better. Survival rating usually points to 2's. considering they have lost about 30 or less. while 3's have lost greater than 300 but that is arguable based on armor. still the 3's could have been given better armor and upgraded for increased survivability. This could have signified hell for the covies. plus i believe there should be more 3's alive with either mk4 or mk5 armor. Hopefully deep in covie space or remnanents taking on covie on remaining human colonies or on earth on special mission which are not really based on killing covies but holding on to certain important things. Or even combating flood infected planets after halo 2 remember grave mind could have sent ships to other planets to keep the flood alive.

The only reason survival points to the Spartan II's is because they were too few, of course you will notice more if 600 out of 900 die as opposed to 30-35 out of 75. Besides, no matter how well you're trained, there are some situations that can't be avoided, like, Alpha company getting cut-off from their extraction shuttle by some Covenant Cruisers, or Red Team getting MAC'd to oblivion along with three Cruisers on Reach.

  • 04.19.2011 8:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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I've only read the first and the last page of this thread, and if the middle pages are at all like the first page, then this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen on this forum.

ITT: People who don't know Halo canon argue about canon.

RKOSNAKE, you took the words out of my mouth, good on ya, comrade.

  • 04.20.2011 1:02 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I've only read the first and the last page of this thread, and if the middle pages are at all like the first page, then this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen on this forum.

ITT: People who don't know Halo canon argue about canon.

RKOSNAKE, you took the words out of my mouth, good on ya, comrade.


I try, although it's really hard to make people understand sometimes. Seriously, most of this forum always jumps in the John-117 is god incarnated bandwagon.

  • 04.20.2011 1:36 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I've only read the first and the last page of this thread, and if the middle pages are at all like the first page, then this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen on this forum.

ITT: People who don't know Halo canon argue about canon.

RKOSNAKE, you took the words out of my mouth, good on ya, comrade.


I try, although it's really hard to make people understand sometimes. Seriously, most of this forum always jumps in the John-117 is god incarnated bandwagon.


Or the "Spartan IIIs = suck because command didn't give a -blam!-."

Amusing when people claim/sound like they have read the books and have a grasp at the lore and canon, then go yell stuff like that and make themselves look like fools (to me.)

  • 04.20.2011 1:43 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I've only read the first and the last page of this thread, and if the middle pages are at all like the first page, then this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen on this forum.

ITT: People who don't know Halo canon argue about canon.

RKOSNAKE, you took the words out of my mouth, good on ya, comrade.


I try, although it's really hard to make people understand sometimes. Seriously, most of this forum always jumps in the John-117 is god incarnated bandwagon.


Or the "Spartan IIIs = suck because command didn't give a -blam!-."

Amusing when people claim/sound like they have read the books and have a grasp at the lore and canon, then go yell stuff like that and make themselves look like fools (to me.)


Indeed, I share your views on that one. Like that post about John kicking the missile in TRAINING xD

  • 04.20.2011 1:46 AM PDT