Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Noble 6, better than most S-IIs?
  • Subject: Noble 6, better than most S-IIs?
Subject: Noble 6, better than most S-IIs?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

LOL This is old guys :D

The argument presented here is no different to Marines vs Army [Who is better, etc]

Ok, here we go:

1) A video game such as halo is designed to make the player feel like a total bad ass. There is no realism in this franchise, as far as game play is concerned, so using that to determine whether or not Six [or SIIIs in general] are better than S117 [Or SIIs likewise] is an exercise in pointlessness. At the end of the day, it comes down to how you play the game that determines who is better, if that's what you're out to achieve.

2) It is widely considered, and documented in novels and such, that Gen III Spartans were not designed to be superior than their predecessors, but rather: be cheaper to make, easier to source and equip, faster to train and more expendable than a Gen II.

The inductee's were picked at random from the war affected population. There was little if any genetic screening or observation of the subjects and a percentage were actually volunteers for the program. A 'class' was turned over quickly, and the augmentations were administered without the protocol established with the Gen IIs [both in procedures and technology and resources]. Gen IIIs had a larger population base than II's, and advancements in augmentation sciences [a good deal of the ground work completed by Halsey during the Gen II advancements] enabled a larger group to survive the augmentation process.

As a general fact, however, Gen IIs were superior. They were bigger, stronger, faster and more intelligent than the Gen IIIs, not to mention they were better equipped, had considerably more training and experience than Gen IIIs, and for the most part, were just naturally better [due in part to genetic screening in the early stages of the SPARTAN II program]

If you want to think of it in a different way, it's like Pepsi vs Coke :D Essentially the same product, but the difference is noticeable to those it's important to. In their own respective fields and roles, each individual Spartan was a legend amongst men. You can fight over it all you want, but thats just how it is :)

Oh, and again, don't come at me with 'Game beats books' etc. I put that one to bed already :)


  • 04.20.2011 2:30 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: spartan120
1) A video game such as halo is designed to make the player feel like a total bad ass. There is no realism in this franchise, as far as game play is concerned, so using that to determine whether or not Six [or SIIIs in general] are better than S117 [Or SIIs likewise] is an exercise in pointlessness. At the end of the day, it comes down to how you play the game that determines who is better, if that's what you're out to achieve.

I agree with this. Gameplay is not an accurate representation of canon. But that is all I agree with.

2) It is widely considered, and documented in novels and such, that Gen III Spartans were not designed to be superior than their predecessors, but rather: be cheaper to make, easier to source and equip, faster to train and more expendable than a Gen II.
Actually it there are no sources whatsoever stating that the IIIs were inferior. There are however numerous sources to show that they are indeed equal and in some case superior. The Headhunters were noted to be better than IIs at infiltration, Gamma Company were noted by Kurt, himself being a "superior" II, to be the best Spartans ever created, N6 is the only equal to John, arguably the best Spartan II etc. etc.

Cheaper, easier, faster and more expendable does not mean worse. The only reason this is a "widely considered" view is because most people have a subconscious hard-on for the IIs and refuse to accept that they could be matched, or bettered, as this would diminish their own personal view of their heroes.

The inductee's were picked at random from the war affected population. There was little if any genetic screening or observation of the subjects and a percentage were actually volunteers for the program.
There was screening, GoO says it numerous times. That's why Beta's initial projection of 1000 ended up being cut to 300. And all of them were volunteers, but only as far as they were asked did they want to be trained or return to their life as orphans without a home.

A 'class' was turned over quickly,
Training for the IIIs was only a year less than that of the IIs, Kurt himself mentioning that he improved the regime, hence the streamlined timeframe.

and the augmentations were administered without the protocol established with the Gen IIs [both in procedures and technology and resources].
Different process, different protocol.

Gen IIIs had a larger population base than II's, and advancements in augmentation sciences [a good deal of the ground work completed by Halsey during the Gen II advancements] enabled a larger group to survive the augmentation process.
A larger survival rate means nothing in the overall effectiveness of the results of the process.

As a general biased opinion, however, Gen IIs were superior.
Fixed

They were bigger,
Most of Noble are the same height, if not taller than the Chief

stronger
I'd love a source for this. I don't think there are any. There are however some saying the contrary. Tom ripped open a drop pod with his hands, in SPI armour i.e no strength enhancers, one of the IIIs (can't remember off hand) went toe to toe with Kelly, again in SPI while Kelly in MJOLNIR and gave her a run for her money.

faster
Again, a source would be lovely. There are also examples to the contrary for this. Tom in SPI running at 30 km/hr, above mentioned Spartan against Kelly, she herself saying she moved faster than humanly possible.

and more intelligent than the Gen IIIs,
And once more for good measure, direct source?

not to mention they were better equipped, had considerably more training and experience than Gen IIIs, and for the most part, were just naturally better [due in part to genetic screening in the early stages of the SPARTAN II program]
Your arguing two greatly different circumstances here. A teenage Spartan III in SPI with limited real-life experience will certainly be bested by a fully grown, experienced and MJOLNIR equipped II. However, that is not an equal setting. That's like comparing a bicycle to a Harley-Davidson. The point myself, and a few others are trying to make is that IIIs are equal to IIs when given the opportunity and resources the IIs were, which most were not.



  • 04.20.2011 3:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


switch 104 sv

Friend, you pulled apart my post, but didn't prove much in favor of your argument. You merely put a different spin on some of my points. Not the main points either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming you, just saying is all :)

You ask me where the information is sourced?

A. The books. [Not from the interwebs either, I purchased [the originals] as each was released.

Just briefly, where did you find out that any of NOBLE are as tall or strong as John ? [Though not a very strong point, Jorge is an SII and a good head and a half taller and broader than any one on NOBLE, and notably stronger too. Furthermore, he isn't an oddity amongst the SIIs;They're all roughly that height/girth/strength]

Furthermore, consider this quote from the Halo Encyclopedia, which I have resting on my laps: RE: SPARTAN III [pg 84]

1) 'Designed to be produced more quickly, more cheaply, and to be expended in near impossible, high-casualty missions...'

Regarding the Headhunter Teams: They are merely an advance force element, trained to a greater extent in their particular field, than the rest of the class. Similar operating forces exist in the modern military as well :)

Anyways, I can see where it is you're coming from, and I can appreciate it too :)

If you want to look into it a bit more, by comparison to a modern day military :

Army Rangers/Airborne : Delta

[Any Service] : SEALs

Marine Corp : [Force Recon Marines]

Commando [Aus] : *SASR/NCD [Aus]

If you look into the various aspects of the above mentioned corps, similarities will begin to emerge :)

I agree with you, however, that in each Spartan's own right, regardless of class [Gen II or III] they were outstanding combatants, brilliant tacticians, and far and above the best operators in [canonical] history.

* SASR : Special Air Service Regiment [Aus/NZ]
* NCD: Navy Clearance Divers [Aus]

  • 04.20.2011 4:18 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: spartan120


Friend, you pulled apart my post, but didn't prove much in favor of your argument. You merely put a different spin on some of my points. Not the main points either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming you, just saying is all :)

I gave evidence to back up my points, I don't see what else I can do. I'm not going getting direct quotes because I'm too lazy but if you reread the material with my points in mind you should spot them yourself.

You ask me where the information is sourced?

A. The books. [Not from the interwebs either, I purchased [the originals] as each was released.

Nowhere in any of the books is it stated that the IIIs weren't as strong, fast, intelligent or any of the points you made.

Just briefly, where did you find out that any of NOBLE are as tall or strong as John ? [Though not a very strong point, Jorge is an SII and a good head and a half taller and broader than any one on NOBLE, and notably stronger too. Furthermore, he isn't an oddity amongst the SIIs;They're all roughly that height/girth/strength]
Their heights were given in the GI Reach issue prior to release. And Jorge is actually an oddity in the IIs. Halsey's journal even explains how he kept growing and aside from Sam is the largest II, hence why he is taller than Noble. He's that much taller than John too.

Furthermore, consider this quote from the Halo Encyclopedia, which I have resting on my laps: RE: SPARTAN III [pg 84]

1) 'Designed to be produced more quickly, more cheaply, and to be expended in near impossible, high-casualty missions...'

I already addressed this.

Regarding the Headhunter Teams: They are merely an advance force element, trained to a greater extent in their particular field, than the rest of the class. Similar operating forces exist in the modern military as well :)
That does not make them any less deadly, which was my point.

Anyways, I can see where it is you're coming from, and I can appreciate it too :)
Thanks for at least being open minded. You seem to have your mind made up that the IIs are better despite any conclusive evidence. I understand that too, the IIIs got dealt a bad hand and that somehow gave them a bad rep to match. You have to remember that if 300 IIs were sent to Pegasi with the same gear the outcome would have been the same.

  • 04.20.2011 4:33 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


switch 104 sv

Fair enough :) I too am lazy and can't be bothered going through the books again at this very minute, though it would appear I need to refresh my knowledge and read all my gathered material once more. The only reason I had the Encyclopedia out was for an art related endeavor, so it was merely convenience.

You're right too, I am biased. Perhaps my opinions will change when I do get round to re-reading it all though. I think I've been indulging in the nostalgic Halo Canon for too long, I need to break the mindset a little.

Thank you for keeping your arguments clean and mature, it is appreciated :)

  • 04.20.2011 4:54 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: spartan120

switch 104 sv

Fair enough :) I too am lazy and can't be bothered going through the books again at this very minute, though it would appear I need to refresh my knowledge and read all my gathered material once more. The only reason I had the Encyclopedia out was for an art related endeavor, so it was merely convenience.

You're right too, I am biased. Perhaps my opinions will change when I do get round to re-reading it all though. I think I've been indulging in the nostalgic Halo Canon for too long, I need to break the mindset a little.

Thank you for keeping your arguments clean and mature, it is appreciated :)


Fair enough. Same to you and thanks for being open minded.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 5:04 AM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 5:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Ugh seeing how everybody who claims that the SIIIs are "better" are wrong let me clear this up since most of you haven't paid attention to the books.


The Spartan projects original purpose was military police against the rebel forces. The spartan II were trained for human combat not fighting the covenant (as far as we know). the S2s had nearly a decade of training, knew nearly all their teamates inside and out and rarely failed missions. the S2s had the best combat record of the whole military. not to mention that 1 spartan II could do a job that would take 15,000 ODSTs (fall of reach said that i believe)

GoO also proves that the SIIs were far better when it came to planning and doing out those plans to the letter, they were also trained to work as a team yet be able to act alone. Something the SIIIs can't replicate.

Don't even get me started on the Augmentations which is very tricky to talk about or act like you know what your talking about. while both generations have similar enhancements the SIIIs didn't get the same as the SIIS, just similar drugs.
The SIIIs also didn't get the "Drug for height" Nor did they get one that increased their speed as much as the S2 (this is why you are slower in reach, remember how they had to increase the speed because it was too slow? canon reference).
I don't know what else might be missing but the SIIIs can't run or jump fast as a SII nor are they tall as one. I also don't know if there is a difference between getting injections (SIII) or getting surgery (SII), naturally i see a surgery more permanent than a injection but i really don't know.
---------------------------------------------------------

the spartan IIIs are a cheaper more disposable version of the SIIs. while i don't see the logic of sending them on suicide mission (Lives for time is flawed here) they were no doubt spartans.

Spartan IIIs had a short but rigorous training stage thought it wasn't effective as the SIIs for a number of reasons (until Kurt stepped in)

1.No rebel experience- when your parents and older friends tell you that certain events give you a greater perspective they are right. I hold this more towards Ackerson than the Actual SIIIs but fighting rebel forces as part of training or right after training would have helped their combat skills alot. They should have had actual experience with human combat before rushing to fight the covenant. And yes i know the reach game talks about innie ops and what not, but i am not relying on that at all. SIIIs didn't have alot if any rebel ops.

2. Talking on the job- Remember when your teachers told you to shut up and do your work? same for this section, in halo evolutions we have a whole story of a Head-Hunter team, and what are they doing? Talking.
i don't know if this is fair to use seeing how it was a story but they were talking and talking and talking. I would understand if it was about relevant issues but sex and joking around about brutes? Had they been more focused they could have sniffed out the fact it was a trap before it was too late.

3.Armor- this is short and brief, SIIIs were given crappy armor and thrown away. Had they been given Mark 5 or anything like it they would have been able to survive many more missions and wouldn't die from attacks that wouldn't have killed an SII in Mark 5.

4.Training- This again is towards ackerson and not the SIIIs, but they really didn't get an in-depth training as the SIIS did. They can't work alone, they crack under pressure, abandon orders,etc. They just weren't taught to work as a team as well as the SIIs were. nor were they taught to work alone, which is a big part of working as a team. focusing on yourself and trusting your teammates to do their part.

Just some examples.


Now it is highly ignorant to assume that the SIIIs are more "badass" because they were fighting the covenant at age 6. everybody should know that the covenant weren't around when the SIIs were being trained so that alone should throw out any "support" for the SIIIs.

Them going on suicides doesn't mean anything seeing how [A] that was the point and nearly all of them got killed each mission. I could understand if a good amount of each group survived but on average there are only 1-3 survivors each op.
Again, that doesn't make them "badass" seeing how they dead, and why did they die most of the time? because of flaws in the short training time they had.

Didn't HeadHunters have a total of like 30 members? I would say those 30 members are the most like SIIs alongside Gamma company, and teams Katana,Saber, and Gladius are SII level Spartans.


I am not here saying "OmZ Th3 S2s AReBetter HaXs" i am saying that the SIIIs had flaws in their training which held them back. the spartans that i just mention are the ones i feel are " True" spartan IIIs as they had the proper training. Which is the only issue with the S3s

[b] TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING

  • 04.20.2011 5:10 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: grey101
not to mention that 1 spartan II could do a job that would take 15,000 ODSTs (fall of reach said that i believe)


It said that the Spartan II´s had a better operational record than any three divisions of ODST´s.

  • 04.20.2011 5:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: grey101
not to mention that 1 spartan II could do a job that would take 15,000 ODSTs (fall of reach said that i believe)


It said that the Spartan II´s had a better operational record than any three divisions of ODST´s.


that and john said the ODST line. i think it was when he was sigma in the tunnels. but im pulling this out of memory, or it was in First strike

  • 04.20.2011 5:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

@switch

The thing that spartan II's were superior to all Humans is because of their genes.The journal talks about this as well.

Exemples:117 as a 6 year old kid won a king of the hill game,when he was outnumbered against dozens of other kids.Casualities:some of them had broken bones caused by a six year old kid.

Kurt solved a sociological problem as a little kid on his planet

Kelly coulldn't be catched by ONI because she's fast

...
...

  • 04.20.2011 6:44 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Ugh seeing how everybody who claims that the SIIIs are "better" are wrong let me clear this up since most of you haven't paid attention to the books.


The Spartan projects original purpose was military police against the rebel forces. The spartan II were trained for human combat not fighting the covenant (as far as we know). the S2s had nearly a decade of training, knew nearly all their teamates inside and out and rarely failed missions. the S2s had the best combat record of the whole military. not to mention that 1 spartan II could do a job that would take 15,000 ODSTs (fall of reach said that i believe)

GoO also proves that the SIIs were far better when it came to planning and doing out those plans to the letter, they were also trained to work as a team yet be able to act alone. Something the SIIIs can't replicate.

Don't even get me started on the Augmentations which is very tricky to talk about or act like you know what your talking about. while both generations have similar enhancements the SIIIs didn't get the same as the SIIS, just similar drugs.
The SIIIs also didn't get the "Drug for height" Nor did they get one that increased their speed as much as the S2 (this is why you are slower in reach, remember how they had to increase the speed because it was too slow? canon reference).


They are as fast as the Chief in CE....ever wondered why you can jump higher in Halo 2/3? MJOLNIR VI is the answer. Same with dual wielding.
I don't know what else might be missing but the SIIIs can't run or jump fast as a SII nor are they tall as one. I also don't know if there is a difference between getting injections (SIII) or getting surgery (SII), naturally i see a surgery more permanent than a injection but i really don't know.
---------------------------------------------------------

the spartan IIIs are a cheaper more disposable version of the SIIs. while i don't see the logic of sending them on suicide mission (Lives for time is flawed here) they were no doubt spartans.

Spartan IIIs had a short but rigorous training stage thought it wasn't effective as the SIIs for a number of reasons (until Kurt stepped in)

1.No rebel experience- when your parents and older friends tell you that certain events give you a greater perspective they are right. I hold this more towards Ackerson than the Actual SIIIs but fighting rebel forces as part of training or right after training would have helped their combat skills alot. They should have had actual experience with human combat before rushing to fight the covenant. And yes i know the reach game talks about innie ops and what not, but i am not relying on that at all. SIIIs didn't have alot if any rebel ops.

They did have operations against Rebels, not much, but they had some. The Insurrection of Mamore was one instance of a rebel op.

2. Talking on the job- Remember when your teachers told you to shut up and do your work? same for this section, in halo evolutions we have a whole story of a Head-Hunter team, and what are they doing? Talking.
i don't know if this is fair to use seeing how it was a story but they were talking and talking and talking. I would understand if it was about relevant issues but sex and joking around about brutes? Had they been more focused they could have sniffed out the fact it was a trap before it was too late.


I think that's the only instance of Spartan III's talking in the "job" unless you have another example.

3.Armor- this is short and brief, SIIIs were given crappy armor and thrown away. Had they been given Mark 5 or anything like it they would have been able to survive many more missions and wouldn't die from attacks that wouldn't have killed an SII in Mark 5.

Too bad each MJOLNIR was as expensive as a battle group, so imagine giving 300 soldiers a MJOLNIR armor set.

4.Training- This again is towards ackerson and not the SIIIs, but they really didn't get an in-depth training as the SIIS did. They can't work alone, they crack under pressure, abandon orders,etc. They just weren't taught to work as a team as well as the SIIs were. nor were they taught to work alone, which is a big part of working as a team. focusing on yourself and trusting your teammates to do their part.

The only time that they lost unit cohesion (and that's only Alpha company from what I read in Ghosts of Onyx, was when they were overwhelmed by thousands of Elites, Jackals, Grunts and Hunters) and that was after seven days of fighting nonstop.

Just some examples.


Now it is highly ignorant to assume that the SIIIs are more "badass" because they were fighting the covenant at age 6. everybody should know that the covenant weren't around when the SIIs were being trained so that alone should throw out any "support" for the SIIIs.


The Covenant "was around" when they were trained, seeing how all of them were orphans from glassed worlds.

Them going on suicides doesn't mean anything seeing how [A] that was the point and nearly all of them got killed each mission. I could understand if a good amount of each group survived but on average there are only 1-3 survivors each op.
Again, that doesn't make them "badass" seeing how they dead, and why did they die most of the time? because of flaws in the short training time they had.


You make them sound like they failed horribly at their first mission and died, they had missions before, missions that they finished without difficulties against Covenant and rebels alike.

Didn't HeadHunters have a total of like 30 members? I would say those 30 members are the most like SIIs alongside Gamma company, and teams Katana,Saber, and Gladius are SII level Spartans.


I am not here saying "OmZ Th3 S2s AReBetter HaXs" i am saying that the SIIIs had flaws in their training which held them back. the spartans that i just mention are the ones i feel are " True" spartan IIIs as they had the proper training. Which is the only issue with the S3s

[b] TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING


Although I don't agree with most of your points,I do respect your opinion and I applaud you on posting such an organized post, good job my friend.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 9:18 AM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 9:14 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.

  • 04.20.2011 5:37 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.


The ignorance of this post.....

  • 04.20.2011 6:16 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.


The ignorance of this post.....


QFT

  • 04.20.2011 6:19 PM PDT

Whens there's no one to turn to, just aim ahead


Posted by: Zephryon
SIIs could make better decisions under pressure, and they can obviously jump higher than SIIIs, as show in Reach. All in all, a Spartan II would beat Noble 6 any day of the week.


Why are Spartan IIs fighting Spartan IIIs in the first place?

  • 04.20.2011 6:53 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.

Guess who else died on Reach? Spartan-IIs with MJOLNIR.

  • 04.20.2011 6:57 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.


The ignorance of this post.....


Please do explain your statement. Enlight the wrong of my ways or stop complaining about the facts.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 8:24 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 8:21 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.

Guess who else died on Reach? Spartan-IIs with MJOLNIR.


Guess which Hyper lethal Spartan is still kicking Covies ass?

Certainly not Noble Six.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 8:23 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 8:22 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.


The ignorance of this post.....


Please do explain your statement. Enlight the wrong of my ways or stop complaining about the facts.


You do realize that Noble Team was predestined to die no matter what? Cause else people would -blam!- and moan even more about broken canon. So, stating that Spartan III's are worse because of Noble Team is as biased as it gets, the fact that Gamma Company could fight as good as Blue Team demostrates their skills.

  • 04.20.2011 8:51 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: MasterSin
John is a Spartan II he has fought the Covenant for almost all his life, survived the Covenant and the Flood with Cortana only, which only helped with intelligence.

Noble Team died in Reach, they were 6 of them, with Auntie Dot, and the whole Reach military, Airforce, and super MAC cannons.

Still alive? Spartan II - 117.
Dead? Spartans III (With MJONIR armor) Noble Team.

Spartans II Win! They are the deadliest Spartans ever.


The ignorance of this post.....


Please do explain your statement. Enlight the wrong of my ways or stop complaining about the facts.


You do realize that Noble Team was predestined to die no matter what? Cause else people would -blam!- and moan even more about broken canon. So, stating that Spartan III's are worse because of Noble Team is as biased as it gets, the fact that Gamma Company could fight as good as Blue Team demostrates their skills.


People that likes better Spartan III whinned because they died in huge numbers because they didn't have MJOLNIR armor, now Noble team is given MJOLNIR armor. I'm not sure but Noble team are the elite of the Spartans III, the most badass Spartans III, and they die in Reach like many Spartans II. What upsets you is because a Hyper Lethal Spartan III dies and Spartan II hyper lethal manage to survive and to do more than a younger version of the Master Chief?

Spartans II did not have easy missions, they were suicidal too, and even if they didn't have better training, they have the experience, that the Spartans III lacked. Kurt states this, that's why he alters their violent behavior with the last generation of Spartans III, he states that Spartans II are better fit for more high stressed missions, than his Spartans, that's why he allowed those illegal changes in the last Spartan III generation.

  • 04.20.2011 9:07 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

You must have missed my posts in the previous pages, I absolutely loathe Noble Team due to the bad image they gave to the Spartan III's, and no, I'm not mad that Noble Six died, I don't really get where you're getting this image of me being angered. If anything, I'm glad that Bungie killed him/her so that the story actually makes more sense than having Six get stranded forever in Reach

What really angers me however is how people tend to jump into the Spartan II loving bandwagon every single time, even more when people post absurd reasons to back up their facts, like saying John slapped/kicked a missile on his own.

  • 04.20.2011 9:16 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

You have to admit that Spartans II did amazing stuff with out AI like, Fred, Kelly and Joshua, using the banshees and planting a nuke inside a Covenant Carrier and flying over 10K covenant troops and ordenance and actually succeeding, and only losing one Spartan.

Or John and Fred, Kelly, Linda, Will and Grace, blowing up the Unyielding Hierophant and destroying the fleet of 300+ ships that glassed Reach and losing only one Spartan again and succeding, those are extremely suicidal missions and manage to do it. They didn't have nervous meltdown like Spartans III team wolf, or the rest of the dead Spartans III. MJOLNIR armor do not take away fear and lack of experience. Spartans II are way to effective because they have the experience that Spartans III never had. No to mention that the mayor and significant battles were fought by Spartans II.

  • 04.20.2011 9:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

To be fair to the S-III's we don't have much info on the battles they fought in other than the suicide missions and Reach whereas we have nearly a half a dozen books and three games following the S-II's so of course the II's will look more badass in comparison since we know so much more about them.

  • 04.20.2011 9:31 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Again, Cortana was the one who did most of the work in the Unyielding Hierophant, and before you use Auntie Dot as an excuse, Auntie Dot is a "dumb" AI so there's no comparison between them.

  • 04.20.2011 9:33 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Again, Cortana was the one who did most of the work in the Unyielding Hierophant, and before you use Auntie Dot as an excuse, Auntie Dot is a "dumb" AI so there's no comparison between them.


And again they used a copy/already malfunctioning Cortana.

Which only did, was give them a map and where to go, she didn't told them how to react, the tactical stuff was manned and ordered by the Chief.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 9:39 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 9:38 PM PDT