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Posted by: grey101
The Spartan projects original purpose was military police against the rebel forces. The spartan II were trained for human combat not fighting the covenant (as far as we know). the S2s had nearly a decade of training, knew nearly all their teamates inside and out and rarely failed missions. the S2s had the best combat record of the whole military. not to mention that 1 spartan II could do a job that would take 15,000 ODSTs (fall of reach said that i believe)
Noble, Headhunters and presumably Gauntlet and Echo nullify this point as they all had extensive real-life combat experience.
The IIIs also fought Innies before their respective suicide ops.
GoO also proves that the SIIs were far better when it came to planning and doing out those plans to the letter, they were also trained to work as a team yet be able to act alone. Something the SIIIs can't replicate.
Noble 6 was a "Lone Wolf". And all IIs were trained in fireteam tactics, same as the IIIs.
Don't even get me started on the Augmentations which is very tricky to talk about or act like you know what your talking about. while both generations have similar enhancements the SIIIs didn't get the same as the SIIS, just similar drugs.
Same results by different methods.
Spartan II:
-Carbide Ceramic Ossification: Advanced material grafting onto skeletal structures to make bones virtually unbreakable.
-Muscular Enhancement Injections: Protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time.
-Catalytic Thyroid Implant: Platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues.
-Occipital Capillary Reversal: Submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of the subject's retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase.
-Superconducting Fibrification of Neural Dendrites: Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. 300% increase in subject reflexes.
Spartan III:
-Drug 8942-LQ99: A carbide ceramic ossification catalyst to make skeletons virtually unbreakable.
-Drug 88005-MX77: A fibroid muscular protein complex that boosted muscle density and strength.
-Drug 88947-OP24: A retina-inversion stabilizer drug. It boosted color and night vision capabilities.
-Drug 87556-UD61: Improved colloidal neural disunification solution, which in turn decreases reaction time.
As stated above, same results by different means.
The SIIIs also didn't get the "Drug for height" Nor did they get one that increased their speed as much as the S2 (this is why you are slower in reach, remember how they had to increase the speed because it was too slow? canon reference).
As I stated previously, most of the IIIs are the same height, if not taller than the Chief. As fpr speed, there is a drug mentioned above. A real life example is Kelly facing off against Olivia(?) and noted her to be beyond normal physical speeds even without the enhancements of MJOLNIR.
I don't know what else might be missing but the SIIIs can't run or jump fast as a SII nor are they tall as one.
Canon states otherwise.
I also don't know if there is a difference between getting injections (SIII) or getting surgery (SII), naturally i see a surgery more permanent than a injection but i really don't know.
The IIIS got both injected drugs and surgical augmentations.
"They'd be sedated and injected with chemical cocktails and surgically altered to give them the strength of three normal soldiers, decrease their neural reaction time, and enhance their durability." Page 99, Ghosts of Onyx
Spartan IIIs had a short but rigorous training stage thought it wasn't effective as the SIIs for a number of reasons (until Kurt stepped in)
A training regime only one year shorter than the twos and noted as being better by Kurt himself. He basically streamlined the process and made it more efficient i.e. same results in less time.
1.No rebel experience- when your parents and older friends tell you that certain events give you a greater perspective they are right. I hold this more towards Ackerson than the Actual SIIIs but fighting rebel forces as part of training or right after training would have helped their combat skills alot. They should have had actual experience with human combat before rushing to fight the covenant. And yes i know the reach game talks about innie ops and what not, but i am not relying on that at all. SIIIs didn't have alot if any rebel ops.
Actually, as I explained previously, the IIIs did have Innie counter op experience, both as an entire company and otherwise (Noble's profiles explain this).
2. Talking on the job- Remember when your teachers told you to shut up and do your work? same for this section, in halo evolutions we have a whole story of a Head-Hunter team, and what are they doing? Talking.
i don't know if this is fair to use seeing how it was a story but they were talking and talking and talking. I would understand if it was about relevant issues but sex and joking around about brutes? Had they been more focused they could have sniffed out the fact it was a trap before it was too late.
Conversation and nothing more. Do you expect complete silence for numerous days? I think not. Especially between a dedicated team of two who work exclusively together.
3.Armor- this is short and brief, SIIIs were given crappy armor and thrown away. Had they been given Mark 5 or anything like it they would have been able to survive many more missions and wouldn't die from attacks that wouldn't have killed an SII in Mark 5.
Kinda proving my point there.
4.Training- This again is towards ackerson and not the SIIIs, but they really didn't get an in-depth training as the SIIS did. They can't work alone, they crack under pressure, abandon orders,etc. They just weren't taught to work as a team as well as the SIIs were. nor were they taught to work alone, which is a big part of working as a team. focusing on yourself and trusting your teammates to do their part.
They learned team tactics, solo tactics (N6), small force tactics (Headhunters) etc. Alpha cracked under the pressure of having overwhelming odds against them but still managed to complete their mission. The IIs would have fared no better in the same situation. (Age, experience, equipment, enemy force)
Now it is highly ignorant to assume that the SIIIs are more "badass" because they were fighting the covenant at age 6. everybody should know that the covenant weren't around when the SIIs were being trained so that alone should throw out any "support" for the SIIIs.
Regardless, they did well. Same as the IIs would have done, given the same circumstances I imagine.
Them going on suicides doesn't mean anything seeing how [A] that was the point and nearly all of them got killed each mission. I could understand if a good amount of each group survived but on average there are only 1-3 survivors each op.
Again, that doesn't make them "badass" seeing how they dead, and why did they die most of the time? because of flaws in the short training time they had.
Again, are you suggesting the IIs would have done better? More survived?
300 SPI clad Spartan IIs would have accomplished the mission objectives surely, but the losses would have been the same. That's the point. In an equal setting (IIs and IIIs with MJOLNIR, or IIs and IIIS age 15 with SPI) the operational effectiveness of each class would be equal, at least.
Didn't HeadHunters have a total of like 30 members? I would say those 30 members are the most like SIIs alongside Gamma company, and teams Katana,Saber, and Gladius are SII level Spartans.
29 Headhunters (6 two-man teams, 12 Spartans, with 17 others rotating into positions when one or more of a team was killed). There are not sufficient numbers of IIs to facilitate the program, nevermind the fact that it was declared a Spartan III project. Also, Gamma Company were not part of the Headhunters as there was at least a two year training period and Gamma just finished initial training in 2552. The Headhunters were clearly made of Alpha and Beta Spartan IIIs.
I am not here saying "OmZ Th3 S2s AReBetter HaXs" i am saying that the SIIIs had flaws in their training which held them back. the spartans that i just mention are the ones i feel are " True" spartan IIIs as they had the proper training. Which is the only issue with the S3s
What Spartans? They all received similar, if not identical training. Training noted to be an improvement from that of the IIs.
[b] TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING
^^^^
EDIT: Apologies for the bold. It's a thing from grey's post.
[Edited on 04.21.2011 12:16 AM PDT]