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  • Subject: Halo Reach Worthless Ban System
Subject: Halo Reach Worthless Ban System

Match Making Design is stupid. Random game types when you feel like only CTF?

If people don't want to get booted for betrayals maybe they should get out of party chat and talk in game. Then they could apologize, which they can't do when they're talking to people playing CoD. (also if you talk to people outside a match, you won't really be concentrating properly)

A voting system would of been better, but if you have a party on your team, it's highly unlikely you could get one of their friends booted for being a dick.
It would be good if they had a way of detecting team kills, like if a player is melee'd it's obviously intentional, or a player is sniped etc. While exempting players from splash damage kills, nothing worse than firing a rocket, having some noob run into the blast radius then boot you for it same with getting in front of vehicles.

Normally though it's pretty obvious if it's intentional like you pick up the sniper rifle and are instantly melee'd to death by a team mate who then picks it up.

But main point is, the bans and penalties are there. People are aware of them so the obvious solution is, don't do anything bannable.

If you can't give the game the attention your team mates require then maybe you should wait until you can before playing.

Challenge resets are just poor form IMO. IT IS cheating, you are intentionally manipulating the system and it makes others who have worked legit for ranks and credits ripped off. Then bungie has them -blam!-ing at them instead.

I love how people compare Reach to CoD, this is not CoD, if you want a CoD like experience, well then go play it. That's what I would do.

End of the day is there any system of kicking banning that ever really works?

[Edited on 04.24.2011 8:07 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2011 8:04 PM PDT

5th Freedom


Posted by: Doom3d Marine
End of the day is there any system of kicking banning that ever really works?


No.

That's why they should not use it!

  • 04.24.2011 8:19 PM PDT

-Agent York

i think bungie just hates us that is why they put banning systems, and this is comming from a guy that has never ben banned.

  • 05.12.2011 6:46 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: CrispWall
i think bungie just hates us that is why they put banning systems, and this is comming from a guy that has never ben banned.


I don't think they hate us, they're just too stupid/arrogent to design a system that doesn't need that garbage. Other game developers have done it, why can't they?.....

  • 05.12.2011 10:35 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Petergriffin555
AFK banning is reasonable if done enough.


I don't think you ppl even read the whole OP. You ppl seem to think that I'm "ok" with these so-called offences.

No, I do not think that AFK-ing during an online multiplayer match is ok!!! BUT, banning people for doing it does NOT solve the problem!

The nature of the offence, and what kind of punishment it deserves, is not the issue here. The issue here is: why on reach ("why on earth"), would bungie allow this crap in the first place?!

Giving ppl a 10min ban for quitting does NOT solve the problem of quitting even IF quiting is an offence (because it might not be: team is getting owned like garbage or internet connection issues), AND it deserves that kind of ban. Just implement a join-session-in-progress protocol to keep matches balanced!!! Then you don't need a banning system.

Then the people who quit aren't pissed at being banned, and the people who don't aren't pissed at the quitters. Both parties will continue to play the game...

  • 05.12.2011 11:11 PM PDT
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Full party boosting isn't a bannable offense. Learn form the best.

  • 05.12.2011 11:18 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: IK II IB O S IH
Full party boosting isn't a bannable offense.


Yes it is.

See the 3rd bullet after: "The following things will not result in a visit from the Banhammer:"

The key word is: BOOSTING!!

Now: why you people get away with it is beyond me...

Not that I care. If it were me, I would say: go for it! But since bungie has this system implemented, I dunno why you don't fit the bill, so to speak...

[Edited on 05.24.2011 7:11 PM PDT]

  • 05.13.2011 1:54 AM PDT

-Agent York

Posted by: IK II IB O S IH
Full party boosting isn't a bannable offense.


i hope you and everyone on your website get permabanned.

[Edited on 05.24.2011 6:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 6:04 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.

You were one of the AFKers weren't you. BTW AFKing does affect gameplay. It makes games longer and the team you're useless too will most likely lose because of you.

  • 05.24.2011 6:06 PM PDT
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Video games give you the option to play against AI (Artificial Intelligence) or against RS (Real Stupidity).

It's funny, every ban system complain thread is made by someone who got reset.

  • 05.24.2011 6:08 PM PDT

5th Freedom

I must have hurt bungie's pride somehow or offended someone influential, because I just got RANK RESET!!

Most people will claim to be innocent, blah, blah...but in this case I actually don't know why I got this particular ban. It is extremely severe and was mostly used to punish the challenge re-setters. I have never done that, and I also don't put offensive content in my fileshare.

See point 5. in the OP, haha. I just experienced that!

I have been banned/warned 4 times already, I will freely admit:
1) Put on 3-day probation for quitting + a single 10min. matchmaking ban
2) Put on 3-day probation...again
3) 24-hour credit ban for FLB-ing with guest controllers
4) 2-week credit ban for AFK-ing in firefight

But the mysterious thing is that those offenses are, on the one hand, minor, and on the other hand, already punished!!

So unless I pissed someone off, or hurt someone's pride, I would like an explanation (from bungie...not pricks on these threads) as to why I deserved such a major punishment, and what I did. If I'm to be arrested, I deserve to know: on what charges?!! This is like a video game dictatorship! What a shame...

B.T.W. since my last 2 week credit ban (from being AFK in firefight), I have only played legit. Check my game history if you want...I've mostly just been playing infection and trying to get the Bulltrue medal in campaign.

  • 05.24.2011 6:08 PM PDT

-Agent York

Posted by: N30Nblack
I must have hurt bungie's pride somehow or offended someone influential, because I just got RANK RESET!!

Most people will claim to be innocent, blah, blah...but in this case I actually don't know why I got this particular ban. It is extremely severe and was mostly used to punish the challenge re-setters. I have never done that, and I also don't put offensive content in my fileshare.

See point 5. in the OP, haha. I just experienced that!

I have been banned/warned 4 times already, I will freely admit:
1) Put on 3-day probation for quitting + a single 10min. matchmaking ban
2) Put on 3-day probation...again
3) 24-hour credit ban for FLB-ing with guest controllers
4) 2-week credit ban for AFK-ing in firefight

But the mysterious thing is that those offenses are, on the one hand, minor, and on the other hand, already punished!!

So unless I pissed someone off, or hurt someone's pride, I would like an explanation (from bungie...not pricks on these threads) as to why I deserved such a major punishment, and what I did. If I'm to be arrested, I deserve to know: on what charges?!! This is like a video game dictatorship! What a shame...

B.T.W. since my last 2 week credit ban (from being AFK in firefight), I have only played legit. Check my game history if you want...I've mostly just been playing infection and trying to get the Bulltrue medal in campaign.


I agree completely.

  • 05.24.2011 6:11 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Alpha00
You were one of the AFKers weren't you. BTW AFKing does affect gameplay. It makes games longer and the team you're useless too will most likely lose because of you.


Sure I am. I've bet you've done it to. And no, it does NOT affect the game for others. If the game lasts longer that just means more game completion credits, haha!

  • 05.24.2011 6:12 PM PDT

Despotic game design rarely measures out fair justice. Bungie's only concern is reinforcing their own power base (the success of Reach measured in how many people are playing it) so the only deviants they will punish are those that choose not to play the game.

AFK, credit boosters, quitting, anything that allows you to spend less time with the game than you would do so normally earns you a corrective slap on the wrist. And all the while, being the biggest sniper-whoring douche imaginable in BTB is a perfectly legitimate way to play the game, even though it's a far worse thing for how able the other players in game are to enjoy that game, simply because it doesn't directly impact Reach's standing on Major Nelson's leaderboards (indirectly, sure, but bungie's not one to appreciate subtlety.)

It's just what inevitably happens when someone with power looses connection with those that power is applied to. All they see is their own goals and obstacles to those goals (Reach's population), and regardless of how those relate to the "common gamer" (which they themselves can no longer relate to; see how Bungie usually refers to us as "the kids" in the podcasts) they'll act only to reach/remove them, respectively, not knowing any other course of action.

I shouldn't have to sit through a game of spawn-and-get-killed-almost-instantly if I don't want to. I do have rights. I'm a human. It's called free will. If i want to quit, I'm going to quit, and there's nothing they can do to stop me. I want the quit ban removed because it is wrong, not just because i don't like it.


I mean what's next? Getting suspended from matchmaking if over half your kills are from long range because they want you to melee more?

They'll start using the excuse. "Well since the other person doesn't have very good aim at long range we want you to get closer to them so they can kill you easier. It's ruing their experience because they cant kill you because you were smart enough to stay away from them, so we want you to ruin your experience to make some kid on the other end of the screen feel better."

I should be able to quit whenever the -blam!- I want. I refuse to be FORCED to get my ass reamed when the rest of my team either sucks completely or leaves. Honestly, yeah. I quit a lot, but it's because I'm always on the losing team. I'm always on top pulling the team trough and doing all the work. You say you want it to be fun for us. Well getting my ass plowed by two field marshalls, a hero and a mythic is not fun. The matchmaking system is so unfair it's not even funny. Even when the "Skill" filter is on I find myself getting destroyed by people that are higher levels... And I go to quit, only to find myself banned for 10 minutes. I'm not just gonna sit there and be a sandbag for them to blow their load on. I'm gonna quit, and a quit ban isn't going to stop me. It's just an annoyance.

The fact that they say "Quitting games disrupts the experience of other gamers." makes me grit my teeth. Its BS. What about MY experience?!? shouldn't I be able to choose how I play? It's my game and I payed for it. And getting spawn raped sure as hell doesn't ruin other people's experiences, it helps them AT MY expense, so why would they be surprised when I quit? They shouldn't be. Because in any other game it is a normal occurrence. Point and fact: staying in games I don't like is ruining MY experience, yet Bungie says the want their players to have the best experience, but they also decide to tell me what a good experience is instead of letting me choose on my own. It's backwards and crooked and manipulative. It's wrong.


If Bungie was any kind of smart they would have never added the quit ban in the first place. It would have been a whole lot smarter to just add the "Drop in, Drop out" system that is seen in almost every other shooter (PC, Console, or otherwise).

And do they truly have the right to ban me? I haven't broken any rules. I'm not manipulating the system nor am I causing anyone financial/property damage. I may cause other players to be at an inconvenience, but there is no true harm done to them. (And, if the above system had been implemented, it wouldn't have been a problem in the first place) Yes, I agreed to the terms of use when I signed up, But do they by law have the right to ban me from a service that I payed for and that I have done no harm to? Is it legal to ban someone for technically doing nothing wrong?

  • 05.24.2011 6:12 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Ix LP xI
It's funny, every ban system complain thread is made by someone who got reset.


It's funny, I posted this thread BEFORE I got reset. My guess is that I got reset BECAUSE of this thread. Bungie can't handle the truth...

  • 05.24.2011 6:14 PM PDT

How is there only one thing there that affects other people?

  • 05.24.2011 6:17 PM PDT

5th Freedom

@Happy_Feet_2011

YES! EXACTLY! THANK YOU!

  • 05.24.2011 6:18 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Mercurial Force
How is there only one thing there that affects other people?


Ok, think about it...There are many things that gamers can do to affect other gamers gameplay experience. But there is only one actual (bungie proclaimed) OFFENSE that affects other gamers. That is quitting. Even if you so-called "quit" by being booted for betrayal, that's still categorized under the one offense of quitting. And it is THAT offense that will affect other gamers experience.

  • 05.24.2011 6:25 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.

Posted by: N30Nblack
Posted by: IK II IB O S IH
Full party boosting isn't a bannable offense.


Yes it is.

See the 3rd bullet after: "The following things will not result in a visit from the Banhammer:"

The key word is: BOOSTING!!

Now: why you people get away with it is beyond me...


It was clarified in a weekly update that if everybody is playing, then it wasn't bannable

  • 05.24.2011 6:56 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.

Posted by: N30Nblack
Posted by: Alpha00
You were one of the AFKers weren't you. BTW AFKing does affect gameplay. It makes games longer and the team you're useless too will most likely lose because of you.


Sure I am. I've bet you've done it to. And no, it does NOT affect the game for others. If the game lasts longer that just means more game completion credits, haha!


No, I haven't AFKed. People care about Win/Loss as well. It's not fun if the other team is curb-stomping you.

  • 05.24.2011 6:58 PM PDT

5th Freedom


Posted by: Alpha00
Posted by: N30Nblack
Posted by: IK II IB O S IH
Full party boosting isn't a bannable offense.


Yes it is.

See the 3rd bullet after: "The following things will not result in a visit from the Banhammer:"

The key word is: BOOSTING!!

Now: why you people get away with it is beyond me...

Not that I care. If it were me, I would say: go for it! But since bungie has this system implemented, I dunno why you don't fit the bill, so to speak...


It was clarified in a weekly update that if everybody is playing, then it wasn't bannable


Yea, if everybody is playing...that's great. But if it's for the purpose of BOOSTING, that should be an offence, right? Listen, I don't wanna arguing about whether it should be an offense or not. I don't even care!! People who wanna boost, should be free to do so. Network manipulation, hacking, modding, is clearly wrong and should not be allowed (should be punished). But boosting with your friends, or going AFK in firefight, is not! As I said, as long as other gamers (or the game/match itself) is/are not affected by your behavior, do whatever you want!

  • 05.24.2011 7:19 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Alpha00
People care about Win/Loss as well. It's not fun if the other team is curb-stomping you.


Wow, I know that...and I agree. I'm taking VERY SPECIFICALLY about firefight. Does being AFK make your "team" lose? Do the other players get a lower score? Does the game become unbalanced? NO! So whoever cares is just a prick.

AFK-ing in matchmaking is a whole other story...But as I said in my OP, just implemet an auto-kick system (like in MW2). Or just let people quit when they want, and implement a drop-out, drop-in system. Don't make people feel "forced" to stay in a match when they don't want to (like being curb stomped). Of course they will ruin the game for others if they are "forced" to stay in. They will go AFK or piss off teammates. Just ACTUALLY read my OP...

  • 05.24.2011 7:26 PM PDT

5th Freedom

The REAL solution:

Bungie, why not simply fix the matter of idling instead of punishing untold number of gamers for doing it? Many other games have auto-boot for inactivity, why can't you? Many other games have no friendly fire (or even better - backfire!), why can't you? Many other games have drop-in, drop-out for active match sessions, why can't you? These are just some suggestions to fix these issues of quitting, idling, betraying, etc...

You can't techincally "stop" gamers from this behavior. Punishing them doesn't "stop" them from doing it. Why not keep everyone happy, and just fix these problems by implementing some of the suggested protocols?

Define "fix" as: to account for an issue, thereby rendering it a non-issue

Note 1: These protocols won't "stop" quitting from happening, for example, but it would "account" for it, by allowing the matches to remain balanced.

Note 2: Hacking, modding, network manipulation, lag switching, should be punished - but ONLY if you can't think of any protocols to actually "stop" it or "account" for it 1st.

FAQ time!

Q: "From now on we won't be seeing anymore idlers cuz they sure as hell learned their lesson, haha! So doesn't that mean bungie "fixed" the issue?"

A: Well, sorry to say, but we are in fact still seeing people idle in FF (firefight). Since there are still no protocols in place, it CAN still happen again - and it is. The banhammer didn't catch everbody,and some people are still doing it. So surely there must be a "right" way to do it without getting caught. That just proves how unfair it is, when some people got away with it, and some are STILL getting away with it.

Q: "But what if there are no protocols good enough to notice the most sly methods of boosting?"

A: Well then, props to them, they probably beat the banhammer too. However good at catching/punishing people the banhammer is, is how good they could make their preventative protocols. Ultimately the banhammer does more damage than good, so get rid of it, and just make a proper game that doesn't "need" it!

Q: "Why is AFK-ing in FF so prominent? I mean there's at least one AFK-er in every FF match!"

A: Firstly, because bungie screwed up the credit rewarding system. Whether you actively play hard all the way through, or sit in the corner and do jack-squat, you get the same total credits (on average - any differences are sufficiently small to be negligible)! What you do during the match is utterly irrelavent!!! It's all about the game completion bonus. Secondly, because AFK-ing in FF does not affect the other gamers or the outcome of the match, whereas AFK-ing in MM (multiplayer matchmaking) does. The theory is, that if you AFK in MM you are a disrespectful prick who ruins the game for the rest of his team, but if you AFK in FF, nobody gets hurt.

Rant:

Basically, idling should be rendered fruitless. Do you think we would see that many idlers if you didn't get such a big game completion bonus??! Howbout rewarding players for their actual in-game activities - like getting kills? Howbout 100Cr instead of 5Cr??? EVEN THAT can be considered preventative protocol!!! And if your excuse is that you suck at getting kills, then a) shouldn't be ranking up anyways! and b) you should get rewarded for literally EVERYTHING ELSE you could possibly be doing - like getting an assist, or driving someone in a vehicle, or picking up the flag. And If the game completion bonus is so big in order to deter quitting, why not just make every quit a minus 1000Cr penalty???

Bungie - stop putting all your efforts into punishing gamers who take advantage of the fact that you have no protocols in place to "stop" them, and start putting effort into actually implementing these protocols.

This game was set up to fail, and now we're being punished for taking advantage of it. Obviously we are not gonna play it anymore...

I mean just think about this scenario:

-You get 200Cr game completion bonus for a firefight arcade match.
-You can earn an average of 2000Cr for a FULL-LENGTH match of actually doing stuff (kills, assits, etc.).
-You can earn an average of 1000Cr for only being "active" half the time.
-You get penalized -1000Cr if you quit at ANY time. (If you quit at the beginning, ur a moron. If you quit halfway through, you may have earned 1000Cr but then you lost them all again - plus you don't get the jackpot or the 200Cr game completion bonus. And if you quit right before the end, you may earn at least 1000Cr - but ur an even bigger idiot, cuz u could have stayed in for 5 more seconds and earned about 2500Cr)
-You can earn an average of 400Cr (jackpot on top of game completion) if you idle the whole way through. (OR YOU COULD JUST GET AUTO-BOOTED FOR INACTIVITY!!!)

Do you think we gonna need a banhammer to punish idlers?
Will there even BE any idlers??!

Any idlers still around with that kind of system are either:

a) idiots
b) actully answering the phone and taking a dump! - they're not just lying and making excuses!

There you go, problem solved. Now we just need 343 to patch bungie's huge mess. Can't wait till 343 takes control. Bungie should burn for this big mistake known as: "Reach".

  • 07.06.2011 6:56 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member


Posted by: N30Nblack
Posted by: Alpha00
You were one of the AFKers weren't you. BTW AFKing does affect gameplay. It makes games longer and the team you're useless too will most likely lose because of you.


Sure I am. I've bet you've done it to. And no, it does NOT affect the game for others. If the game lasts longer that just means more game completion credits, haha!
actually it does affect gameplay. This weeks weekly challenge(and last weeks) are for FF waves being completed. If someone on the team doesn't play or quits then the game will go slower and possibly end without all waves completed. This makes the challenge take longer and makes people who dont like FF but want the challenge have a worse expirience. AFKing/quiting in FF is a justifiable offense. plus the afking people benefit for doing nothing, seems like an offense to me

  • 08.16.2011 8:01 PM PDT

5th Freedom

Posted by: Peco
actually it does affect gameplay. If someone on the team doesn't play or quits then the game will go slower and possibly end without all waves completed.


Ok fine, it is possible that if 1 or more people go AFK in firefight the match will last longer and not all the waves will be completed. Chances are that time will run out before all the waves are completed.

So what? "Oh boo-hoo, I didn't get the bonus round!" Well If the match lasts until the last second with 4 waves incomplete, that's the same game completion bonus as having all the waves complete with 8 minutes left on the clock.

So no, I do NOT agree that people going AFK affects the firefight gaming experience of the other players. Going AFK is NOT an offense in firefight since bungie designed firefight to encourage AFK behavior anyway.

  • 08.16.2011 10:56 PM PDT