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This topic has moved here: Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
  • Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Halopedia says she's canon

Otto says she's canon

Bungie says she's canon

Your fighting a losing battle my friend..

  • 04.20.2011 11:48 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: matman25402
Everything created by 343 & Bungie is assumed canon unless stated otherwise. Odd One Out was stated not canon. Nicole was not. In fact she was created for the purpose of using a canon spartan.

No, she was created so a Spartan could be in the 21st century. She is canon in the DoA universe, not the Halo universe.


Um... I kinda read in that update that Nicole was Non-canon.

She was not labeled in Fall of Reach as one of the Spartans rescued (Who were ALL named). So how did she get to Earth?

Not all of the spartans we at Reach mind you, not that i am supporting her being canon because she isn't.


True, but all Spartan II's were that could be.

Also, Ilovebees was labeled non-canon correct? That's where they said the class 2 Spartan 2 program happened?

[Edited on 04.20.2011 11:48 AM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 11:48 AM PDT


Posted by: matman25402
Halopedia says she's canon

Otto says she's canon

Bungie says she's canon

Your fighting a losing battle my friend..


She enjoys watching Anime and participating in competition shooting.

Yep... that sounds like a Spartan II from what we've seen so much.

  • 04.20.2011 11:50 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: matman25402
Halopedia says she's canon

Otto says she's canon

Bungie says she's canon

Your fighting a losing battle my friend..

1. There is Halopedia and then there is Halo Nation. Both offer conflicting statements.

2. Didn't Otto say her situtation is not something you can write into canon? So how can she be canon and not be canon at the same time?

3. Bungie never said she was canon in the update.

  • 04.20.2011 11:51 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: matman25402
Halopedia says she's canon

Otto says she's canon

Bungie says she's canon

Your fighting a losing battle my friend..


She enjoys watching Anime and participating in competition shooting.

Yep... that sounds like a Spartan II from what we've seen so much.


If she were to be canon she would be brought up in the new additions of the books or something. The only character i can think of that has been completely forgotten is http://www.halopedian.com/Cassandra]her

  • 04.20.2011 11:55 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.

  • 04.20.2011 11:57 AM PDT

-Evil Otto

LOL dudes, can't we just all get along? Believe what you want to believe. Wrestling over semantics seems like a waste of time.

  • 04.20.2011 12:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Evil Otto
LOL dudes, can't we just all get along? Believe what you want to believe. Wrestling over semantics seems like a waste of time.

You don;t come here often do you? =)

  • 04.20.2011 12:04 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.
If you read the talk page, it was concluded she was canon long ago, Using the Weekly Update as the source. Otto then goes and confirms it. There is really nothing you can argue.

  • 04.20.2011 12:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.
If you read the talk page, it was concluded she was canon long ago, Using the Weekly Update as the source. Otto then goes and confirms it. There is really nothing you can argue.


I clearly remember years ago otto saying that we shouldn't believe everything he says due to him being wrong. he said that it would be nearly impossible to have DLC firefight maps and we have that for reach, and we don't even know who Evil otto is and what he does on the game.

If it was Frankie,staten, or that beard guy i would buy it but not from otto.

  • 04.20.2011 12:07 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I just do not buy a Spartan-II who hasn't been confirmed as a Class II Spartan-II is was created and implemented into Halo canon so she could go back in time to fight Japanese schoolgirls. No, just no.

  • 04.20.2011 12:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I just do not buy a Spartan-II who hasn't been confirmed as a Class II Spartan-II is was created and implemented into Halo canon so she could go back in time to fight Japanese schoolgirls. No, just no.


that and the Fact that Spartan IIIS were made because a class two would have cost too much which was stated by Ackerson in GoO.
We haven't seen the words "Class II" anywhere else in Actual canon other than GoO.

If she is canon as the HCE Led ending.

  • 04.20.2011 12:10 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.


Posted by: grey101
If she is canon as the HCE Led ending.

Are you saying that wasn't canon D:

But yes, I agree. She is not canon.

  • 04.20.2011 12:13 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.
If you read the talk page, it was concluded she was canon long ago, Using the Weekly Update as the source. Otto then goes and confirms it. There is really nothing you can argue.


I clearly remember years ago otto saying that we shouldn't believe everything he says due to him being wrong. he said that it would be nearly impossible to have DLC firefight maps and we have that for reach, and we don't even know who Evil otto is and what he does on the game.

If it was Frankie,staten, or that beard guy i would buy it but not from otto.
Read the talk page. Frankie says it too.

  • 04.20.2011 12:14 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.
If you read the talk page, it was concluded she was canon long ago, Using the Weekly Update as the source. Otto then goes and confirms it. There is really nothing you can argue.


I clearly remember years ago otto saying that we shouldn't believe everything he says due to him being wrong. he said that it would be nearly impossible to have DLC firefight maps and we have that for reach, and we don't even know who Evil otto is and what he does on the game.

If it was Frankie,staten, or that beard guy i would buy it but not from otto.
Read the talk page. Frankie says it too.

So she is a Spartan not from the Fall of Reach, but she is now a Spartan-II Class II, which might I add never happened? I can see the character exist, but her backstory does not match up.

  • 04.20.2011 12:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Gotta love how easy you can edit Halopedia.
If you read the talk page, it was concluded she was canon long ago, Using the Weekly Update as the source. Otto then goes and confirms it. There is really nothing you can argue.


I clearly remember years ago otto saying that we shouldn't believe everything he says due to him being wrong. he said that it would be nearly impossible to have DLC firefight maps and we have that for reach, and we don't even know who Evil otto is and what he does on the game.

If it was Frankie,staten, or that beard guy i would buy it but not from otto.
Read the talk page. Frankie says it too.

So she is a Spartan not from the Fall of Reach, but she is now a Spartan-II Class II, which might I add never happened? I can see the character exist, but her backstory does not match up.


Even though i now do remember frankie saying the FoR part i still don't remember him actually saying that a Class II of S2s were made. we are going to need direct links words for that, no implying or any BS of the sort.

  • 04.20.2011 12:24 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

A spartan by the called Nicole-458 might exist, however even by the number "458" she couldn't be a Spartan II. We could change the number to something <150, but then all that exists is a Spartan called Nicole-???

None of her backstory fits with canon.

  • 04.20.2011 12:25 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: grey101
Even though i now do remember frankie saying the FoR part i still don't remember him actually saying that a Class II of S2s were made. we are going to need direct links words for that, no implying or any BS of the sort.

Using Halopedia isn't safe seeing as the OP edited the page for Nicole-458 and put her in the Class-II box.

  • 04.20.2011 12:26 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: grey101
Even though i now do remember frankie saying the FoR part i still don't remember him actually saying that a Class II of S2s were made. we are going to need direct links words for that, no implying or any BS of the sort.

Using Halopedia isn't safe seeing as the OP edited the page for Nicole-458 and put her in the Class-II box.


Agreed, were going to need bungie links with all this.

  • 04.20.2011 12:27 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: grey101
Even though i now do remember frankie saying the FoR part i still don't remember him actually saying that a Class II of S2s were made. we are going to need direct links words for that, no implying or any BS of the sort.

Using Halopedia isn't safe seeing as the OP edited the page for Nicole-458 and put her in the Class-II box.


Agreed, were going to need bungie links with all this.

I know the Update describes what she is not.

She's not a character who's ever been described in other Halo fiction.
She's not a character from our next project.
She's not one of the Spartans from Fall of Reach.
She's not a character from the Halo movie.
She's not returning my calls. I blame time bubbles.

As far as her number goes, it doesn't mean squat. We have Ralph-303, a Spartan-II with a high number. So that only concludes she is a Class-I Spartan-II, but Frankie said she isn't.

She has more holes than a block of Swiss.

  • 04.20.2011 12:31 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

I'm sure you meant Swiss cheese not just Swiss.

I forgot about some high numbers, I was sure it only went up to 150 or so.(I need to brush up on canon a bit)

  • 04.20.2011 12:33 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Skulblaka
I'm sure you meant Swiss cheese not just Swiss.

I forgot about some high numbers, I was sure it only went up to 150 or so.(I need to brush up on canon a bit)

Ralph-303 was in "Homecoming". Say what you want about Halo: Legends or that particular episode, but it does offer quality speculation and for this case, proof.

  • 04.20.2011 12:35 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

Ah, well in that case I have never seen Halo:Legends.

  • 04.20.2011 12:38 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Skulblaka
I'm sure you meant Swiss cheese not just Swiss.

I forgot about some high numbers, I was sure it only went up to 150 or so.(I need to brush up on canon a bit)

Ralph-303 was in "Homecoming". Say what you want about Halo: Legends or that particular episode, but it does offer quality speculation and for this case, proof.


ONI was casing the kids who eventually became the SIIs for years, I'd assume that they probably had a lot more potential candidates than a 150, and then only those who best fit Halsey's specifications were selected. That could explain why Ralph has such a high number.

I'm going to stay out of this whole canon debate over Nicole :P

  • 04.20.2011 12:46 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Right, we need to sort this out guys. Let's take a look at what I've dug up:

We are under the impression that Nicole-458 is a Spartan-II Class II. This is immediately the point where she cannot be canon.

After the graduation of the first class of SPARTAN-IIs in 2525, Halsey began planning for the next wave of Spartans; her efforts, however, ran into problems. There were too few candidates within her age restriction protocol and a majority of her funding was going towards MJOLNIR maintenance and construction; leaving little room for continued training efforts. By 2531, the majority of her funds had been diverted and she was forced to postpone the effort indefinitely.

This is established, the failure to produce Spartan-II Class IIs was the reason Mendez was taken in to train the Spartan-IIIs.

Now this all hinges on whether I Love Bees is canon or not, in 2004 we got this statement from Joe Staten:

"The Bees would not make the cut. Those guys basically did their own thing with very little Bungie input (save for massaging and approving the initial plot-treatment). While we helped define the boundaries of their fiction, we let them do what they thought best. And I think the game turned out great."

Then we get Frankie contradicting that the next year in an interview: "We're going to have this huge collection of canon and things that we embrace as canon, like I Love Bees and stuff like that." (27:49)

However I Love Bees cannot be considered canonical. Some elements of it directly contradict established canon, such as the time in which Tobias Fleming Shaw and Wallace Fujikawa were alive.

So we're in a state of canonical limbo with ILB, but the fact we are seeing more canonical errors present within it means that Nicole cannot be canon. 458 is too high a number to be a Spartan-II, there'd have to have been hundreds of S-II Class IIs in order to be that high and that can't be possible.

Logic dictates that Nicole-458 cannot be a canonical entity.

  • 04.20.2011 12:49 PM PDT