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This topic has moved here: Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
  • Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON

Signatures are for squares.

For gods sake the Class II's aren't canon. Anyone who thinks Nicole is canon has something wrong with them.

I sure do love my anime watching, time traveling,(something Bungie said they'd never use in the Halo universe) Spartan fighting girls in bathing suits.

Sure sounds canon to me.

Sure.

  • 04.20.2011 12:49 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

458 or more Class II candidates?

Well using the same parameters and results from the S-II Class I program that would potentially mean 100 Class II's running around. Increase that for improvements to the augmentation regime obviously...

Oh and all those Mjolnir armours have got to cost a pretty penny...

This is Bullshi­t.

  • 04.20.2011 1:04 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
458 or more Class II candidates?

Well using the same parameters and results from the S-II Class I program that would potentially mean 100 Class II's running around. Increase that for improvements to the augmentation regime obviously...

Oh and all those Mjolnir armours have got to cost a pretty penny...

This is Bullshi­t.

If Nicole does become canon, I might burn my Halo Books.

Just saying. I don't want more Spartans ONI'd into existance.

  • 04.20.2011 1:08 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Just gonna repost this:

Right, we need to sort this out guys. Let's take a look at what I've dug up:

We are under the impression that Nicole-458 is a Spartan-II Class II. This is immediately the point where she cannot be canon.

After the graduation of the first class of SPARTAN-IIs in 2525, Halsey began planning for the next wave of Spartans; her efforts, however, ran into problems. There were too few candidates within her age restriction protocol and a majority of her funding was going towards MJOLNIR maintenance and construction; leaving little room for continued training efforts. By 2531, the majority of her funds had been diverted and she was forced to postpone the effort indefinitely.

This is established, the failure to produce Spartan-II Class IIs was the reason Mendez was taken in to train the Spartan-IIIs.

Now this all hinges on whether I Love Bees is canon or not, in 2004 we got this statement from Joe Staten:

"The Bees would not make the cut. Those guys basically did their own thing with very little Bungie input (save for massaging and approving the initial plot-treatment). While we helped define the boundaries of their fiction, we let them do what they thought best. And I think the game turned out great."

Then we get Frankie contradicting that the next year in an interview: "We're going to have this huge collection of canon and things that we embrace as canon, like I Love Bees and stuff like that." (27:49)

However I Love Bees cannot be considered canonical. Some elements of it directly contradict established canon, such as the time in which Tobias Fleming Shaw and Wallace Fujikawa were alive.

So we're in a state of canonical limbo with ILB, but the fact we are seeing more canonical errors present within it means that Nicole cannot be canon. 458 is too high a number to be a Spartan-II, there'd have to have been hundreds of S-II Class IIs in order to be that high and that can't be possible.

Logic dictates that Nicole-458 cannot be a canonical entity.

  • 04.20.2011 1:12 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Retcon makes the Class-II Spartan-IIs canon. Evil Otto confirmed that SHE'S CANON. That means that Class-II are canon as she is Class-II. Ya maybe the whole watching anime thing might not be canon, but then again, what exactly would a Spartan do on their free time?
I don't want to get into an argument but just accept it.
Class-II S-IIs offer a future expansion to the Spartan story. Instead of creating more and more Class-Is (like Jorge and Team Black), 343 can start working on the Class-II storyline.

Also remember that 150 children were originally going to be conscripted, but in the end it was 75. We see that John was 117 of 150.
Now let's say that the Class-IIs were added onto the 150. So that means that there could be 308 possibly candidates for the Class-II. Of course budge cuts means that there could have been 70 or so conscripted (again.)


END OF LINE

[Edited on 04.20.2011 5:10 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 5:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Retcon makes the Class-II Spartan-IIs canon. Evil Otto confirmed that SHE'S CANON. That means that Class-II are canon as she is Class-II. Ya maybe the whole watching anime thing might not be canon, but then again, what exactly would a Spartan do on their free time?
I don't want to get into an argument but just accept it.
Class-II S-IIs offer a future expansion to the Spartan story. Instead of creating more and more Class-Is (like Jorge and Team Black), 343 can start working on the Class-II storyline.

END OF LINE


when was it retconned? jonhson escape of the flood was retconned by the graphic novel, nothing about nicole has left the DoA game.

Do you even know who Evil Otto is? because i don't, that being said you can't take it for a fact because it is a gold post. He has even said this himself due to him usually being wrong.


Do you even know what you are talking about? anybody that supports this being "canon" doesn't.


Halsey WAS working on a class II but couldn't find enough genetic markers within the age range and was out of funds, thus the project was scrapped.

Ackerson then Start the SIII project using subjects halsey said to be out of range.


class II can't exist because the SIIIs are what would be the Class II candidates.

  • 04.20.2011 5:12 PM PDT


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Retcon makes the Class-II Spartan-IIs canon. Evil Otto confirmed that SHE'S CANON. That means that Class-II are canon as she is Class-II. Ya maybe the whole watching anime thing might not be canon, but then again, what exactly would a Spartan do on their free time?
I don't want to get into an argument but just accept it.
Class-II S-IIs offer a future expansion to the Spartan story. Instead of creating more and more Class-Is (like Jorge and Team Black), 343 can start working on the Class-II storyline.

Also remember that 150 children were originally going to be conscripted, but in the end it was 75. We see that John was 117 of 150.
Now let's say that the Class-IIs were added onto the 150. So that means that there could be 308 possibly candidates for the Class-II. Of course budge cuts means that there could have been 70 or so conscripted (again.)


END OF LINE


150 + 150 = 300.

You've ignored the fact. Otto said he is sometimes wrong.

Otto does not speak for Bungie, Otto Speaks for Otto.

Again, please provide the exact statement of "Class 2 Spartan 2" are canon? PROOF, not a PM which shouldn't bloody be thrown around in public anyway.

  • 04.20.2011 5:14 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Class-II exists because Otto says Nicole exists and Franky said ilovebees is canon.

End of story. No debate unless you're a troll

  • 04.20.2011 5:17 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Retcon makes the Class-II Spartan-IIs canon. Evil Otto confirmed that SHE'S CANON. That means that Class-II are canon as she is Class-II. Ya maybe the whole watching anime thing might not be canon, but then again, what exactly would a Spartan do on their free time?
I don't want to get into an argument but just accept it.
Class-II S-IIs offer a future expansion to the Spartan story. Instead of creating more and more Class-Is (like Jorge and Team Black), 343 can start working on the Class-II storyline.

END OF LINE

Like hell it is.

Do you honestly think that over 100 additional Spartan II's will just slip into Halo canon without any complications?

  • 04.20.2011 5:18 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

What did these extra Spartans do? Sit around drinking tea watching the war on TV? End of line, they don't exist.

  • 04.20.2011 5:20 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

They exist because the game and canon makers said they exist.
Also there's been retcon before. Get over it.
Ever wonder what Team Echo and Gamma are?

  • 04.20.2011 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Class-II exists because Otto says Nicole exists and Franky said ilovebees is canon.

End of story. No debate unless you're a troll


What does otto even do at bungie? and your ignoring the fact he says he is normally wrong.

Frankie clearly contradict himself and until he get a book or some evidence about a class two they aren't canon.

A class two of spartans would tangle with the Spartan IIIs, and seeing how they could barely give them any armor i doubt they could make 100 mark 5 armors.

plus who would train them seeing how mendez was training the SIIIs.


The class two of spartans are the SIIIs. know your stuff.

  • 04.20.2011 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Ever wonder what Team Echo and Gamma are?


both were spartan IIIs

  • 04.20.2011 5:28 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Echo is dead, they've been dead, deader than Anna Nicole Smith.
The Team Echo and Gamma that were at Reach are most likely Class-II. The existance of Class-II's now open up a whole new frontier.

  • 04.20.2011 5:33 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

I'm going to try to get OFFICIAL response.

  • 04.20.2011 5:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Echo is dead, they've been dead, deader than Anna Nicole Smith.
The Team Echo and Gamma that were at Reach are most likely Class-II. The existance of Class-II's now open up a whole new frontier.


They are SIIIs they were mentioned in GoO.

  • 04.20.2011 5:38 PM PDT

ImmortalJoshua is ignoring facts and making his own up.

  • 04.20.2011 5:46 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

This is a prime example of people not thinking about what they read, just blindly appealing to an authority.

  • 04.20.2011 5:53 PM PDT
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I have the ultimate answer: It's all fiction.
Posted by: Evil Otto
LOL dudes, can't we just all get along? Believe what you want to believe. Wrestling over semantics seems like a waste of time.
People are still posting your messages even after asking people to just leave it private. :/

[Edited on 04.20.2011 6:01 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 6:00 PM PDT
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Be nice to noobs..Remember even MLG players were noobs at one point.

Why are we wasting time and breath to decide what is cannon when apparently -blam!- can just be changed on the fly and have previous cannon -blam!- on to make room for one game meant to appease to COD fanboys while still having the title HALO.

  • 04.20.2011 6:22 PM PDT


Posted by: halo3f3ak
Why are we wasting time and breath to decide what is cannon when apparently -blam!- can just be changed on the fly and have previous cannon -blam!- on to make room for one game meant to appease to COD fanboys while still having the title HALO.


Why are we wasting time when people are freaking out and making blind, stupid assumptions.

  • 04.20.2011 6:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Echo is dead, they've been dead, deader than Anna Nicole Smith.
The Team Echo and Gamma that were at Reach are most likely Class-II. The existance of Class-II's now open up a whole new frontier.

Prove it.

Also, on a related note, we should all just ignore future posts by the OP. He obviously has little grasp on canon and has made it clear he will not be civil and back up his claims.

[Edited on 04.20.2011 7:10 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2011 7:00 PM PDT

I understand what people say when they say she is real in the DoA universe but not the Halo-verse, but it's hard to describe.

Bungie gave her a backstory for why she is in the DoA universe, they explained within DoA why she can be 'there'.

BUT within the Halo-verse, she is basically nonexistent.


I wish there was an analogy I could use, but Bungie's deal with Team Ninja here is pretty unique.



I'd say for the sake of avoiding canonical issues, it makes the most sense that Bungie 'made a spartan for DoA and made a backstory so it made sense why she was there, while not necessarily making her real within the Halo-verse.'

  • 04.20.2011 7:29 PM PDT
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Thanks for Team Snipers Bungie.
Mythic Member, Legendary Member and back and forth. i just can't make up my mind!
Campaign - Halo C.E.>Halo 2>Halo 3
Multiplayer - Halo 2>Halo 3>Halo C.E.
Just about every thing I post is my opinion and nothing more. Be subjective. Respect other's opinions. Try to understand other's point of view.


Posted by: Evil Otto
LOL dudes, can't we just all get along? Believe what you want to believe. Wrestling over semantics seems like a waste of time.
You guys built this machine. You guys enjoy having almost a devotion like fan base. This is the price you pay for it. Considering it's all just make believe arguing over any thing is a waste of time unless just for fun.

That being said I do agree with Otto. Canon has been broken so bad by Halo Reach, and some stories, that what does it even matter. Just have to decide for yourself what you like and what you don't like. The original Halo Bible was either very, very limited or has all but been thrown away. Reach destroyed it for me. I just hope who ever is writing the books form no won does a good job.

  • 04.20.2011 7:41 PM PDT

For the fun of it!

None of us can make claims as to what is canon and what isn't, as none of us has seen the "Halo Bible" that contains all of what they currently have thought up to be canon. There are so many secrets in the Halo universe that while the Halo media has mentioned that Halsey and Mendez gave up on Spartan II Class II's, and that Ackerson made the Spartan III's, there is always the possiblility that others took up the Spartan II Class II task before the Spartan III program. There is no reason why Mendez had to be the only trainer used...

Ether way, DOA is a completely seperate game, and the question of whether Nicole is Halo canon is seperate from her being DOA canon. As Oto said, lets all just get along! :)

  • 04.20.2011 8:38 PM PDT