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This topic has moved here: Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
  • Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON
Subject: Evil Otto confirms Nicole-458 IS CANON

Huh. I always assumed she was non-canon. Interesting to find out nonetheless.

  • 04.21.2011 4:37 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
but it's now FACT that Nicole was a Class-II.

Then why did Otto not directly confirm this as fact when he as here?

Frank O'Connor said that there may be further exploring into why Ralph had a huge service number. What was it 303? Of course he was a Class-I.

That's true.


Here is a timeline of all that went down.

Oh boy.

2531-Halsey was planning on having Class-II created but her funds were diverted. That same year the S-III project began. This is most likely where her funds went to. Halsey did have a list of candidates but some (or most) were not within the age range. Nicole may have been one of them (though she was just born in 2531, the UNSC may have had newborn's DNA catalogued)

And where is any information to back this up? If anything, Nicole should be a Spartan-III. But she is allegedly Spartan-II. So far, nothing is adding up.

2537-Nicole, Yasmine Zaman, and a possible maximum of 306 6-7 year old children are abducted into Class-II. This same year, all members of Alpha Company are KIA.

Where is the proof? 306 candidates aren't just going to disappear.

2539-Beta Company begins training.

AT least you understand dates.

2542-43-Class-II possibly graduates. Yasmine dies from the augmentation.

If a Class-II exists, which judging from the lack of funds and training for it, doesn't.

2552-Any Class-II that are on Reach (possibly Gauntlet and Echo) that survived escape Reach (possibly Aegis Fate). When the Covenant invade Earth, they plan some sort of mission. This is when the non-canon starts (DoA4). But I assume that the mission part could be canon. Possibly trying to get Regret?
Honestly Earth was invaded and I highly doubt that only 4-6 S-IIs held off the Covie while there were dozens on Reach and most of them died. It would make sense that there were Class-II on Earth.

While we may not know weather Echo and Gauntlet Teams are S-IIs or S-IIIs, they are not Class-II Spartan-IIs. No Class-II's of Spartan-IIs were created or deployed. You have no proof to go on at this point.

Now sometime after 2525, Maria-062 is possibly injured in battle and "retires." It is implied that she has children. Now we see from ILB that a Spartan 1.1 (Janisary James) was going to be abducted into the Class-II program but her father killed the ONI agent.

Class-II is most likely made up of some of the candidates that Halsey had picked out, Spartan 1.1's, and possibly Maria's children. This would make her children Spartan 2.1s. Because they have the genetic structure and everything for a Spartan-II, they would have been perfect for the program.

Where is the proof?

Now it could be possibly that private companies funded the Class-II project as private companies did develop some of the MJOLNIR armor. I'm sure there was some mutli trillionaire (it's 500 years in the future, I'm sure Wal-Mart got that rich.) had ties with the UNSC and funded the Class-II. Private companies have been known to do things like these. BlackWater has mercenaries, so why not?

So is the UNSC couldn't fund a second class of Spartan-IIs, a private company can? Private companies may be able to produce armor, but I doubt they could fund every bit of
capturing, training, and augmenting candidates.


Now I don't think that there were 300+ Class-II members, maybe there were 75-100 candidates that were abducted. They most likely did recieve MJOLNIR armor. Some of them most likely were on Reach during it's fall. It could be possible that Team Echo and Gauntlet are made up of Class-II as there are just simply no more Class-Is to add in. Those team's also could have had S-IIIs in them, kinda like Noble.

And yet everything up to Reach shows that Class-IIs were a failed concept that were scrapped.

This is the most likely case of the Class-II.


It would appear that most of your explanations are all speculation. ILB is the source for most of the Class-II speculation, and yes, it is in the Halo Encyclopedia. But the fact remains, nothing about the Class-IIs has come up since. As it stands, it never happened and if it did, nothign viable came from it. If 343 Industries does follow up and starts to introduce the Class-IIs, I'll accept them as canon.

However, Nicole-458 isn't canon, not matter how well you can edit Halopedia.

  • 04.21.2011 4:40 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?

  • 04.21.2011 5:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Considering you are NOT connecting dots but offering speculation with no back-up proof and ignoring everyone elses counterarguments and are only using Otto's as-of-yet-confirmed-as-fact response to your question as flimsy proof, you don't have a figurative leg to stand on in this debate.

Nicole-458 isn't canon because the Spartan-II Class-II program has yet to be acknowledged as by either Bungie or 343 Industries.

  • 04.21.2011 5:20 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?


>Implying everything on Halopedia's canon.

Good lord, what's the matter with you.

  • 04.21.2011 5:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?


>Implying everything on Halopedia's canon.

Good lord, what's the matter with you.

And you think I'M stubborn.

  • 04.21.2011 5:29 PM PDT
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A walking contradiction.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?


The administration team is simply following the "it is official unless stated otherwise" approach like they always do with all released information.

Expanding what privet caboose said, mind you, the administration team don't decide what is canon and what is not. It's all about protocols and procedures. With that said, blame the editors who wrote the false/misinterpreted information.

[Edited on 04.21.2011 5:46 PM PDT]

  • 04.21.2011 5:46 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?


Just so you know, Halopedia has always had issues with accepting what others have submitted as "fact" when it's mere assumption. Just because they've changed servers changes nothing about that...

  • 04.21.2011 7:28 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Just to let you know that admins at Halopedia accept Otto's answer and she's now considered canon on Halopedia as she should be.
Also as far as that Janisary James stuff goes to go ilovebees.com
I was just putting all the dots together.
Can we please stop arguing?

Halopedia has spoken. End of discussion. We must now abandon all common sense and logic and blindly accept the utterly retarded concept of a Spartan II Class II despite there being no actual evidence for it.

Damn it, I hate when that happens.
[/sarcasm]

As the others above have said, something being on Halopedia does not make it canon.

  • 04.22.2011 4:31 AM PDT
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I refuse to believe in time travelling Spartans in the Halo universe and that DOA and Halo Universe are the same universe. Also if they are then Ninja Gaiden would also be part of the Halo Universe.

  • 04.22.2011 4:44 AM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

Right, well since this is all Canon now, I think it's about time we considered all the easter eggs canon too. Buck DID eat fleas off a monkey, there was a floating 2D guy on Installation 04(2) and there most certainly was a Plasma rifle scarab gun.

This thread shames what the Bungie Universe once was.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 4:46 AM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 4:45 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I refuse to believe in time travelling Spartans in the Halo universe and that DOA and Halo Universe are the same universe. Also if they are then Ninja Gaiden would also be part of the Halo Universe.


can you not understand what this means?
Nicole is canon to the Haloverse, but her appearance in DoA4 is NOT. That means that she was on some sort of mission during the Battle of Earth.

  • 04.22.2011 8:40 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I refuse to believe in time travelling Spartans in the Halo universe and that DOA and Halo Universe are the same universe. Also if they are then Ninja Gaiden would also be part of the Halo Universe.


can you not understand what this means?
Nicole is canon to the Haloverse, but her appearance in DoA4 is NOT. That means that she was on some sort of mission during the Battle of Earth.


I have been waiting for you to post again.

and you got that completely backwards, see is canon in the DoA universe but not the halo universe.

  • 04.22.2011 8:43 AM PDT

http://bungie.me/sig/noble/Stealth+Fox74.png

um quick out of conversion question...

can we ask Evil Otto any arguable questions?

  • 04.22.2011 9:11 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I refuse to believe in time travelling Spartans in the Halo universe and that DOA and Halo Universe are the same universe. Also if they are then Ninja Gaiden would also be part of the Halo Universe.


can you not understand what this means?
Nicole is canon to the Haloverse, but her appearance in DoA4 is NOT. That means that she was on some sort of mission during the Battle of Earth.


I have been waiting for you to post again.

and you got that completely backwards, see is canon in the DoA universe but not the halo universe.


Yep, Joshua has avoided my biggest question. Spartan II Class II. Outfitted with MJOLNIR. Why aren't they recalled to help the Spartan II Class I in the prophet mission?

Trust me, if I was command I'd want as many as possible. And he was saying there was 70-100 of them?


Posted by: Stealth Fox74
um quick out of conversion question...

can we ask Evil Otto any arguable questions?


We can ask him questions, and he tries to respond. However taking his PERSONAL MESSAGES (hint hint Joshua) as official statements from Bungie or as always completely true is a no-no. They tried this stuff before concerning new armor and I remember he got annoyed/pissed at people throwing his PMs around like candy.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:17 AM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:15 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

funny find, he even went to the waypoint forums trying to get support for this claim and failed.

Hes name is " erickyboo"

http://halo.xbox.com/forums/general/f/10/t/5486.aspx

  • 04.22.2011 10:42 AM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.


Posted by: grey101
funny find, he even went to the waypoint forums trying to get support for this claim and failed.

Hes name is " erickyboo"

http://halo.xbox.com/forums/general/f/10/t/5486.aspx


He has been told both here and on the waypoint forums that he is wrong. I doubt this is going to end though.

@OP
People are sometimes wrong, surely you will face that you were wrong and learn for the experience. Man up.

  • 04.22.2011 10:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: matman25402
Class II
Janissary James - Nicole-458 - Yasmine Zaman


I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet. Ignoring Nicole, in ILB Janissary James isn't conscripted into the Spartan II program at all. This is what the "Second Class" is; Spartan II's. She was a 1.1 (daughter of a Spartan 1,) and from my understanding was given mild enhancements clinically as a child. She was not trained militarily (save from her father,) and was not given any access to UNSC privileges. She is a civilian, and was NEVER a part of Class II - regardless if ILB is canon or not.

Why is she even listed as such on Halopedia? That to me speaks volumes of lazy Mods, and makes me loose faith in the site.

Posted by: matman25402
Halopedia says she's canon


Except the only evidence given is a screenshot of the very same PM that you linked. Were I a mod at Halopedia, I would delete that entry, as it doesn't quite "chalk up" for me.

  • 04.22.2011 10:57 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Skulblaka
Posted by: grey101
funny find, he even went to the waypoint forums trying to get support for this claim and failed.

Hes name is " erickyboo"

http://halo.xbox.com/forums/general/f/10/t/5486.aspx


He has been told both here and on the waypoint forums that he is wrong. I doubt this is going to end though.

@OP
People are sometimes wrong, surely you will face that you were wrong and learn for the experience. Man up.

That is not him on Waypoint, it is somebody else. I will not say who though.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 11:03 AM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 11:02 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Be that as it may, Joshua needs to stop making threads. Period.

  • 04.22.2011 11:09 AM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yep, Joshua has avoided my biggest question. Spartan II Class II. Outfitted with MJOLNIR. Why aren't they recalled to help the Spartan II Class I in the prophet mission?

Trust me, if I was command I'd want as many as possible. And he was saying there was 70-100 of them?


What if a second class was sorta the same deal as the S-IIIs? Highly top-secret that very few knew about? And maybe under a different chain of command as well (PMC)?

I mean, I completely understand wanting every SPARTAN available for RED FLAG but what if they were kept out because of how secret they were?

And maybe the PMC outfitted them with MJOLNIR. Used their own men and women to kidnap/train them and did some sneaky stuff to pull the augmentation records. Of course, as pointed out earlier in the thread, where would a PMC come up with that sorta funding for that many SPARTANs (if at all)? Logically, it's not possible, for many reasons.

Not trying to support the OP's claims (though it seems like it), I'm just coming up with off the wall ideas. I completely understand that a second class does not exist and will continue to do so until told otherwise by 343i. A PM (that shouldn't have been shared) doesn't do it for me.

  • 04.22.2011 12:52 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yep, Joshua has avoided my biggest question. Spartan II Class II. Outfitted with MJOLNIR. Why aren't they recalled to help the Spartan II Class I in the prophet mission?

Trust me, if I was command I'd want as many as possible. And he was saying there was 70-100 of them?


What if a second class was sorta the same deal as the S-IIIs? Highly top-secret that very few knew about? And maybe under a different chain of command as well (PMC)?

I mean, I completely understand wanting every SPARTAN available for RED FLAG but what if they were kept out because of how secret they were?

And maybe the PMC outfitted them with MJOLNIR. Used their own men and women to kidnap/train them and did some sneaky stuff to pull the augmentation records. Of course, as pointed out earlier in the thread, where would a PMC come up with that sorta funding for that many SPARTANs (if at all)? Logically, it's not possible, for many reasons.

Not trying to support the OP's claims (though it seems like it), I'm just coming up with off the wall ideas. I completely understand that a second class does not exist and will continue to do so until told otherwise by 343i. A PM (that shouldn't have been shared) doesn't do it for me.

Then why the -blam!- would these Class-IIs not get mentioned in any piece of Halo fiction?

  • 04.22.2011 1:01 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yep, Joshua has avoided my biggest question. Spartan II Class II. Outfitted with MJOLNIR. Why aren't they recalled to help the Spartan II Class I in the prophet mission?

Trust me, if I was command I'd want as many as possible. And he was saying there was 70-100 of them?


What if a second class was sorta the same deal as the S-IIIs? Highly top-secret that very few knew about? And maybe under a different chain of command as well (PMC)?

I mean, I completely understand wanting every SPARTAN available for RED FLAG but what if they were kept out because of how secret they were?

And maybe the PMC outfitted them with MJOLNIR. Used their own men and women to kidnap/train them and did some sneaky stuff to pull the augmentation records. Of course, as pointed out earlier in the thread, where would a PMC come up with that sorta funding for that many SPARTANs (if at all)? Logically, it's not possible, for many reasons.

Not trying to support the OP's claims (though it seems like it), I'm just coming up with off the wall ideas. I completely understand that a second class does not exist and will continue to do so until told otherwise by 343i. A PM (that shouldn't have been shared) doesn't do it for me.

Then why the -blam!- would these Class-IIs not get mentioned in any piece of Halo fiction?


And if a PMC tried doing that on their own, it'd get shut down, HARD. Again, that many Spartans in MJOLNIR would be noticed.

  • 04.22.2011 1:12 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Then why the -blam!- would these Class-IIs not get mentioned in any piece of Halo fiction?


Why mention 'em when the story being told doesn't revolve around 'em?

And then if you look into it universe wise, how else would anyone know they exist if they're meant to be top-secret?

I'm just coming up with silly ideas. It's always fun to imagine a what-if scenario. Trust me, I'm not saying they existed lol.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And if a PMC tried doing that on their own, it'd get shut down, HARD. Again, that many Spartans in MJOLNIR would be noticed.


Depends if the UNSC backed 'em on the idea or not. If not then yeah, a major shut down. But if they were outsourced in a way...

And yes, that many SPARTANs in MJOLNIR would get noticed, which is why I'd probably cut down the numbers a lot, to maybe the size of the first class, if not smaller.

Plus the general population has no idea what class a SPARTAN would be from, just that they're SPARTANs. Of course, there will be problems if the first class ever encountered the second class on the field.

  • 04.22.2011 1:22 PM PDT