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This topic has moved here: Subject: [LONG THREAD] Let's fix Reach's canon errors!
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Subject: [LONG THREAD] Let's fix Reach's canon errors!

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

So we all know that Reach has many "canon errors" in it that conflict with The Fall of Reach.
Now some of these errors can be explained. I hope that we, the fans, can find logical answers to these errors.

I will edit my OP with the most accepted logical answers to the questions.

Here are some of the most noticeable errors:

Where are the 20 MAC Orbital Defense Platforms that are supposed to be seen in Long Night of Solace?
They could have been on the other side of the planet. A planet is HUGE. A Orbital MAC gun may be impossible to move around. The MACs were possibly located near areas of great importance (capital, most populated cities, etc.)

Why is the Pillar of Autumn in drydock during the level The Pillar of Autumn?
Here is the timeline of some of the events that the PoA took place in:
0534 Hours: The PoA destroys a Covenant Carrier (in space)
0647 Hours: The PoA lands on Reach to recieve the rest of Cortana from Noble Team
1652 Hours: Noble Six delivers the rest of Cortana and the PoA takes off soon after. Once it gets into space, Cortana has the ship perform a "random" slipspace jump

Obviously a small retcon took place in which the PoA had to land on Reach. No big deal. The Fall of Reach had several errors in it that have been retconned. Also we've seen UNSC ships near the surface of a planet before (Halo 3).

The biggest problem with PoA's landing is not the timeline but how it landed. With that kind of ship every landing ends with a crash landing. It's just not designed to that. Tell me, how did it land to that exact spot without getting damaged? What I mean with that exact spot is that if it had went even few meters to wrong direction, the structure holding it would have failed and PoA fallen. "Hold X to flip Pillar of Autumn" -tsassi2
Most likely there were "boosters" attached to it as seen when it lifts off that allowed it to safely land on the planet. Unless there is another explanation.

Where is John-117 during most of the campaign?
The answer to this could be said for the rest of the Spartans (with the exception of Beta Red, Gauntlet and Echo.)
On Aug. 29 John recieved his Mark V armor along with the rest of the S-IIs. Then after his little "incident," he prepared for OPERATION: RED FLAG.
There are two possible explanations for where MC is during most the campaign:
1. He is in a ship, on it's way to Reach.
2. He is already on Reach, just performing operations at different parts of the planet.
I personally support #1.



If you know any others, please list them and I will put them in here.

[Edited on 04.23.2011 10:26 PM PDT]

  • 04.23.2011 10:06 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

As far as the orbital platforms I believe that they were all relatively close together. You could argue that the shot that took out the corvette on ONI Sword Base was a low power shot from an orbital MAC platform. Later in the game, after the larger fleet shows up the SMAC stations would have been busy fighting the space battle that was unseen to the player.

  • 04.23.2011 10:10 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
As far as the orbital platforms I believe that they were all relatively close together. You could argue that the shot that took out the corvette on ONI Sword Base was a low power shot from an orbital MAC platform. Later in the game, after the larger fleet shows up the SMAC stations would have been busy fighting the space battle that was unseen to the player.

True, but one could also say that it was a Frigate.

  • 04.23.2011 10:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

The biggest problem with PoA's landing is not the timeline but how it landed. With that kind of ship every landing ends with a crash landing. It's just not designed to that. Tell me, how did it land to that exact spot without getting damaged? What I mean with that exact spot is that if it had went even few meters to wrong direction, the structure holding it would have failed and PoA fallen. "Hold X to flip Pillar of Autumn"

[Edited on 04.23.2011 10:22 PM PDT]

  • 04.23.2011 10:20 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
As far as the orbital platforms I believe that they were all relatively close together. You could argue that the shot that took out the corvette on ONI Sword Base was a low power shot from an orbital MAC platform. Later in the game, after the larger fleet shows up the SMAC stations would have been busy fighting the space battle that was unseen to the player.

True, but one could also say that it was a Frigate.

Or any of the numerous other ships in the UNSC arsenal, hence the you could argue. Aside from that the rest of my post could explain the lack of SMAC platforms. The only real question remaining there is the lack of giant hunks of tungsten falling from the sky during Tip of the Spear.

  • 04.23.2011 10:23 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: tsassi2
The biggest problem with PoA's landing is not the timeline but how it landed. With that kind of ship every landing ends with a crash landing. It's just not designed to that. Tell me, how did it land to that exact spot without getting damaged? What I mean with that exact spot is that if it had went even few meters to wrong direction, the structure holding it would have failed and PoA fallen. "Hold X to flip Pillar of Autumn"

Most likely those little "boosters" you see on it where equipped to it to allow it to be landed safely.
I will address this on the OP

  • 04.23.2011 10:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: tsassi2
The biggest problem with PoA's landing is not the timeline but how it landed. With that kind of ship every landing ends with a crash landing. It's just not designed to that. Tell me, how did it land to that exact spot without getting damaged? What I mean with that exact spot is that if it had went even few meters to wrong direction, the structure holding it would have failed and PoA fallen. "Hold X to flip Pillar of Autumn"

Most likely those little "boosters" you see on it where equipped to it to allow it to be landed safely.
I will address this on the OP

Where are the huge fuel tanks that are bigger than PoA? It may have rocket engines but there isn't enough fuel for them. Their size is also questionable. I don't believe they could actually produce enough power to lift or even drastically slow down the ship. The last problem with them is their placement. As I said before PoA isn't designed to land. If something went wrong and the ship flipped there would be nothing to save it and with aerodynamics like that there are pretty big chances for that.

  • 04.23.2011 11:15 PM PDT

Honestly, I don't care what the developers commentary said about how they tested the dynamics and such of those boosters being able to lift the pillar of Autumn, the way it took off, it just wasn't possible. They broke off way to early. The PoA should have fell like a rock. Watch the cutscene again, it just couldn't be possible.

  • 04.23.2011 11:18 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I just don't see why people have such difficulty believeing the Autumn could land, Cortana herself said it had a landing sequence.

  • 04.23.2011 11:35 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I just don't see why people have such difficulty believeing the Autumn could land, Cortana herself said it had a landing sequence.

You can see from it's design that it isn't designed for landing. It's way too heavy, aerodynamics and engine placement are in positions which only make it go one direction, forward. If it went to atmosphere it would just fall.

  • 04.23.2011 11:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: tsassi2

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I just don't see why people have such difficulty believeing the Autumn could land, Cortana herself said it had a landing sequence.

You can see from it's design that it isn't designed for landing. It's way too heavy, aerodynamics and engine placement are in positions which only make it go one direction, forward. If it went to atmosphere it would just fall.

Tell that to Cortana.

  • 04.23.2011 11:56 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: mojeda101
Honestly, I don't care what the developers commentary said about how they tested the dynamics and such of those boosters being able to lift the pillar of Autumn, the way it took off, it just wasn't possible. They broke off way to early. The PoA should have fell like a rock. Watch the cutscene again, it just couldn't be possible.


One could chalk that up to perspective. And it was still going as the back boosters started to fall off, so it might have had enough push to get going on its own.

As for the PoA of landing? Could be possible to bring it in by tug-boats. Of course, that brings up some more questions but it's an idea.

  • 04.24.2011 12:19 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Let me get this straight. You're questioning the physics of a big ass ship, saying it can't land, in a universe where rings can kill you by blowing up your head and pink needles make you explode?

  • 04.24.2011 12:34 AM PDT

"We will either find a way, or make one."
-Hannibal

Wouldn't John just be on the PoA? It's been a while since I read the Fall of Reach, but I thought he was on the PoA waiting for the prophet operation, and then did some sick stuff to the Circumference.

Eh, I need to brush up.

  • 04.24.2011 12:48 AM PDT

for those who dont think the POA could be in Athsmphere well legends, origins part 2 I believe 8 mins in what do you see? Halcyo Cruisers in arthsophere, now it could be the slimmer ones but then again it could be halcyon cruisers

[Edited on 04.25.2011 10:42 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 10:39 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: Alf stewert
for those who dont think the POA could be in Athsmphere well legends, origins part 2 I believe 8 mins in what do you see? Halcyo Cruisers in arthsophere, now it could be the slimmer ones but then again it could be halcyon cruisers


while I would want to use that as a source, it cannot be a reliable one. Origins is being told through the viewpoint of a RAMPANT Cortana. Several scenes that are in it are completely changed. Such as Gravemind handing Cortana to the Chief while on the Ark. Frank O'Connor said that those scenes may not be the way that they really happened.

  • 04.25.2011 10:50 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: x H a w k
Wouldn't John just be on the PoA? It's been a while since I read the Fall of Reach, but I thought he was on the PoA waiting for the prophet operation, and then did some sick stuff to the Circumference.

Eh, I need to brush up.


Yeah, John didn't set foot on Reach during its fall, he was on Gamma station and then went directly to Installation 04

  • 04.25.2011 10:55 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

sorry the POA had to land back on Reach to get the rest of Cortana. Check the times

  • 04.25.2011 10:59 PM PDT


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: Alf stewert
for those who dont think the POA could be in Athsmphere well legends, origins part 2 I believe 8 mins in what do you see? Halcyo Cruisers in arthsophere, now it could be the slimmer ones but then again it could be halcyon cruisers


while I would want to use that as a source, it cannot be a reliable one. Origins is being told through the viewpoint of a RAMPANT Cortana. Several scenes that are in it are completely changed. Such as Gravemind handing Cortana to the Chief while on the Ark. Frank O'Connor said that those scenes may not be the way that they really happened.
suppose thas true, although that doesnt mean it's notpossibl most lkely some truth is in that episode,

  • 04.25.2011 11:01 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Either way, we can just accept Origins as a nice artistic interpretation of the Haloverse (probably the best one too.)

  • 04.25.2011 11:05 PM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I just don't see why people have such difficulty believeing the Autumn could land, Cortana herself said it had a landing sequence.

You can see from it's design that it isn't designed for landing. It's way too heavy, aerodynamics and engine placement are in positions which only make it go one direction, forward. If it went to atmosphere it would just fall.


The same could be said about UNSC Frigates honestly, or the Covenant's ships. As for whether it would fall or not, that's why it had those huge rocket-tugs attached to its hull, and once they fell off it had its own engine to push it up and out of Reach's atmosphere.

And no, it would not "just fall" Halo: CE clearly shows that it wouldn't, if the Autumn would just fall by going into an atmosphere, then it should of, and would have, landed in a completely different position in Halo:CE rather than gliding in in a crash landing.

Also, as someone else in this thread stated, the Autumn had a landing sequence, so obviously it can land.

  • 04.26.2011 7:16 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

  • 04.26.2011 7:27 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Unfortunately the biggest problems is not the occurences but the fact that many of them don't make sense with the extended timeline. Red Team could have been deployed far more safely, the ONI corvette would probably have been found before needing an emergency team to deal with its information, etc. All of the urgency is gone with Reach's new timeframe and many rash decisions would not have been made.

  • 04.26.2011 8:00 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.

  • 04.26.2011 8:03 PM PDT

according to halo first strike (a book) sierra 117 was defending the orbital mac platforms in space with linda while red team went down to reach to defend the generators that powered the mac platforms.

as for the PoA, it COULD have landed using the landing assist boosters... but i have doubts of this...is there history saying that PoA even operated BEFORE reach?

the orbital MAC platforms ORBIT yes...but at they're speed? it would take little time to move to assist the op area

  • 04.26.2011 8:47 PM PDT

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