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Subject: [LONG THREAD] Let's fix Reach's canon errors!


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: Alf stewert
for those who dont think the POA could be in Athsmphere well legends, origins part 2 I believe 8 mins in what do you see? Halcyo Cruisers in arthsophere, now it could be the slimmer ones but then again it could be halcyon cruisers


while I would want to use that as a source, it cannot be a reliable one. Origins is being told through the viewpoint of a RAMPANT Cortana. Several scenes that are in it are completely changed. Such as Gravemind handing Cortana to the Chief while on the Ark. Frank O'Connor said that those scenes may not be the way that they really happened.


Gravemind handed Cortana to the chief in the Ark in origins? Like hell he did. I NEVER saw that.

Also, Cortana was most likely not rampant.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.


And 343i has already declared Reach's campaign canon.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/intel/related/video/assault-on-the -stars-3/1ebc1b7e-0aa9-4b28-a085-b0c84c317ae1

  • 04.26.2011 9:12 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.


I agree completely. Why should either TFoR or Reach be declared non-canon? They still fit together, and it's not easy to figure out how they do either. It's true that neither Bungie or 343i have stated exactly how the two stories fit together, but we can make plenty of very good educated guesses on the matter.

  • 04.27.2011 8:18 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.


I agree completely. Why should either TFoR or Reach be declared non-canon? They still fit together, and it's not easy to figure out how they do either. It's true that neither Bungie or 343i have stated exactly how the two stories fit together, but we can make plenty of very good educated guesses on the matter.


Well, in the legendary commentary of Reach Marty asks the other two how it fits with canon. They respond it does. I think it's something like "It fits in like a jigsaw puzzle."

And we have waypoint/343 released videos which outright talk/reference events in both the game and the books, meaning they view both as canon.

  • 04.27.2011 8:23 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.


I agree completely. Why should either TFoR or Reach be declared non-canon? They still fit together, and it's not easy to figure out how they do either. It's true that neither Bungie or 343i have stated exactly how the two stories fit together, but we can make plenty of very good educated guesses on the matter.


Well, in the legendary commentary of Reach Marty asks the other two how it fits with canon. They respond it does. I think it's something like "It fits in like a jigsaw puzzle."

And we have waypoint/343 released videos which outright talk/reference events in both the game and the books, meaning they view both as canon.


Yeah, Marty asks how things fit together, and the other guys respond with "like a glove" so yeah, obviously Bungie knows how things fit.

Mhm, those too. Like the one you linked. And then we have those two talking about the maps from the Defiant Map Pack referencing the area where Red Team crash landed (Highlands), where Blue Team went (Condemned), and then the one comparing Unearthed to the area around the Menachite Mountains and CASTLE Base.

  • 04.27.2011 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: Alf stewert
for those who dont think the POA could be in Athsmphere well legends, origins part 2 I believe 8 mins in what do you see? Halcyo Cruisers in arthsophere, now it could be the slimmer ones but then again it could be halcyon cruisers


while I would want to use that as a source, it cannot be a reliable one. Origins is being told through the viewpoint of a RAMPANT Cortana. Several scenes that are in it are completely changed. Such as Gravemind handing Cortana to the Chief while on the Ark. Frank O'Connor said that those scenes may not be the way that they really happened.


Gravemind handed Cortana to the chief in the Ark in origins? Like hell he did. I NEVER saw that.

Also, Cortana was most likely not rampant.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: 343i
We're sorry about how much Bungie screwed up with Reach and the entire campaign has been declared non-canon. :)

There, fixed Reach for you.

That's the -blam!- way out.


And 343i has already declared Reach's campaign canon.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/intel/related/video/assault-on-the -stars-3/1ebc1b7e-0aa9-4b28-a085-b0c84c317ae1


that vid just gave an overview of the game it didn't talk anything about canon.


And while 50 percent of the game is fine and we can live with another 50 percent just messed up alot of what was already established.

It seems that bungie just wanted to get this last halo game out rather than take time and heart with it.

  • 04.27.2011 10:19 AM PDT

Actually, it's in waypoint, under the information about the games. Aka, where they stuff the canon videos. They even outright mention a book event.

To me, it seems like people hate on Reach and don't take time or any effort to try to look at how it could fit together for a single reason. It wasn't word for word the book version of the battle.

  • 04.27.2011 10:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually, it's in waypoint, under the information about the games. Aka, where they stuff the canon videos. They even outright mention a book event.

To me, it seems like people hate on Reach and don't take time or any effort to try to look at how it could fit together for a single reason. It wasn't word for word the book version of the battle.


again they are just covering the events from the game like they have with every other. when Frankie sits down and starts picking apart and explaining stuff then you would be correct.

It wasn't word for word but it's the fact they even tried connecting them at all is what made problems.

They should have just did a game on blue team and everything would have been fine. the point of playing SIIIs is nullified since they are wearing Mark 5, which to the common play makes them no different than master chief.

The fact that the covenant now doesn't speak english at all is stupid since ALL MEMBERS are trained to learn the enemies language and speak it. along with the fact Translators pick up a few words atleast.

UNSC not having a home fleet is stupid, even if there were 20 corvettes that slipped under the radar the 100+ ships could have took them out easy.

Reach surviving months under "siege" by dozens of corvettes and the reinforcements that arrived is stupid. IF there weren't any defenses at all then that super carrier alone could have took the entire planet.

The PoA somehow sitting in a drydock, what? Ether way doesn't make sense.

The idea of the PoA landing while Blue team is doing their op in space doesn't make sense. because going off memory they were fighting another covenant ship before returning, getting john then going to halo.

And the idea of the PoA never being in space is just Bull Sh--

Cortana being the direct key to halo ruins the whole point. Cortana was told to make a slipspace jump and instead of truly doing randomly coordinates she uses the time to test where the coordinates she go to the crystal take them.

The idea of her knowing the whole time ruins the "epicness" of the whole point.

  • 04.27.2011 10:42 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

They should have just did a game on blue team and everything would have been fine. the point of playing SIIIs is nullified since they are wearing Mark 5, which to the common play makes them no different than master chief.

Reach surviving months under "siege" by dozens of corvettes and the reinforcements that arrived is stupid. IF there weren't any defenses at all then that super carrier alone could have took the entire planet.

Cortana being the direct key to halo ruins the whole point. Cortana was told to make a slipspace jump and instead of truly doing randomly coordinates she uses the time to test where the coordinates she go to the crystal take them.

The idea of her knowing the whole time ruins the "epicness" of the whole point.


A: They have said, and wanted to show Master Chief does not = everything halo. A game about blue team would have him in the forefront.

B: Reach was never under siege before LNOS mission. The battle started when the LNOS was destroyed, not before. Tip of the Spear was an isolated battle, not planetwide. There was NOT dozens of Corvettes. There was... maybe 3-5 at the most + the super carrier. Even then, guess what? it was not months. It was... a week? maybe two? Which is far more realistic. I mean, people keep saying "As long as the supermacs were online, the line held." yet turn around and imply the generators were the least defended points on the planet? No. Now the generators actually were defended and held out that long until the Fleet of Particular Justice arrived in the system on the 30th and swept aside the defenses.

C: Also, the ships wouldn't be able to be shot down from orbit. It'd be tactically retarded and a massive friendly fire, for example, to shoot down the Corvettes in exodus from orbit using MACs.

D: Actually, Cortana wasn't 'testing'. She knew something important was there, or the Covenant wouldn't have gone to such lengths to get the crystal. With Reach, she just has slightly more knowledge about the Forerunner systems. OR, with the data from the Forerunner structure carried by the fragment is what told her those coordinates were really important, just not what. Either way, saying she didn't know that something was there and was massively important is stupid.

Edit: And for all we know, the space battle at first could have ended somewhat quickly, with the ground battle taking so long due to the fact ships had reached the planet surface.

Edit2: I don't see any problem with Noble Team. Simply proved to the idiots saying Spartan IIIs could never perform like a Spartan II that they were wrong.

[Edited on 04.27.2011 10:59 AM PDT]

  • 04.27.2011 10:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: tsassi2

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I just don't see why people have such difficulty believeing the Autumn could land, Cortana herself said it had a landing sequence.

You can see from it's design that it isn't designed for landing. It's way too heavy, aerodynamics and engine placement are in positions which only make it go one direction, forward. If it went to atmosphere it would just fall.


The same could be said about UNSC Frigates honestly, or the Covenant's ships. As for whether it would fall or not, that's why it had those huge rocket-tugs attached to its hull, and once they fell off it had its own engine to push it up and out of Reach's atmosphere.

And no, it would not "just fall" Halo: CE clearly shows that it wouldn't, if the Autumn would just fall by going into an atmosphere, then it should of, and would have, landed in a completely different position in Halo:CE rather than gliding in in a crash landing.

Also, as someone else in this thread stated, the Autumn had a landing sequence, so obviously it can land.

This is exactly what I was looking for. I have always kept frigates in atmosphere (Forward Unto Dawn few meters above the Ark, In Amber Clad over New Mombasa, all the frigates on the cutsecene of "The Storm") as miracles. No UNSC ships have thrusters that are pointing down. Or at least they haven't been shown in the games. I believe that frigates have underside thrusters as they are small enough to actually be able to float in atmosphere with relatively small thrusters. They aren't just never shown in games. There is no other explanation why we have seen so many frigates floating

Covenant ships are easy to explain. We have known for a long time that they have anti-gravity technology.

PoA entering Installation 04's atmosphere and surviving the crash landing sure was a miracle. I believe Cortana calculated the lowest possible angle of incidence in order to PoA not to be flattened like a pancake. I don't remember any details from it's landing as it's been a long time since I last read The Flood. If I remember correctly we never got to know how it actually landed. If that's true I would assume it turned 180 degrees and used it's engines to slow down as there is no long visible sliding route in "The Maw" and the ship has no other big engines than the ones on it's rear side.

  • 04.27.2011 11:20 AM PDT

I don't have a hard time accepting the craziness that is Halo's universe, but after playing Portal 2, I have a hard time accepting the craziness that is Half Life's universe.

  • 04.27.2011 11:48 AM PDT

Actually, there is a slide mark. In the opening cutscene of the Maw, there is a massive gorge through the ground behind the engines, with the bridge hanging off a cliff. I remember it was described as I think "A supersonic boom heralding it's entering atmosphere"? And that when it crash-landing, it struck the ground, bounced due to speed several times before hitting the ground and sliding to a stop.

  • 04.27.2011 12:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: grey101

They should have just did a game on blue team and everything would have been fine. the point of playing SIIIs is nullified since they are wearing Mark 5, which to the common play makes them no different than master chief.

Reach surviving months under "siege" by dozens of corvettes and the reinforcements that arrived is stupid. IF there weren't any defenses at all then that super carrier alone could have took the entire planet.

Cortana being the direct key to halo ruins the whole point. Cortana was told to make a slipspace jump and instead of truly doing randomly coordinates she uses the time to test where the coordinates she go to the crystal take them.

The idea of her knowing the whole time ruins the "epicness" of the whole point.


A: They have said, and wanted to show Master Chief does not = everything halo. A game about blue team would have him in the forefront.
my mistake, i meant to say red

B: Reach was never under siege before LNOS mission. The battle started when the LNOS was destroyed, not before. Tip of the Spear was an isolated battle, not planetwide. There was NOT dozens of Corvettes. There was... maybe 3-5 at the most + the super carrier. Even then, guess what? it was not months. It was... a week? maybe two? Which is far more realistic. I mean, people keep saying "As long as the supermacs were online, the line held." yet turn around and imply the generators were the least defended points on the planet? No. Now the generators actually were defended and held out that long until the Fleet of Particular Justice arrived in the system on the 30th and swept aside the defenses.

i didn't expect my exaggeration to be taken seriously.

Holding out for a month make no sense whatsoever, and completely destroys the point that the covenant were more advanced.

I don't buy the BS with the covenant being on reach for a full month or so before the "real" battle started. Today with the internet,phones,cameras,etc events that happen on the otherside of the planet are put on the web at the first chance.

I find it hard to believe that nobody would get on a chatter calling their mom telling her that the covenant is on reach. i find it hard to believe that people wouldn't see crazy light patterns and wonder why. While reach was largely uninhabited it was still habited. which is why i just can't see this being under complete wraps for a full month, not even oni is that good.

Not to mention that if the UNSC didn't have any forces defending reach then the siege sure hell wouldn't take that long. The point of reach falling in a day had a clear significance which was ignored for the sake of the game to make humanity look like something. What? i don't know.


C: Also, the ships wouldn't be able to be shot down from orbit. It'd be tactically retarded and a massive friendly fire, for example, to shoot down the Corvettes in exodus from orbit using MACs.
did i ever say that? i know i am tired but i don't remember typing that. i do remember say there were over 1 hundred ships at reach, meaning i am sure some would be called to take out the corvettes

D: Actually, Cortana wasn't 'testing'. She knew something important was there, or the Covenant wouldn't have gone to such lengths to get the crystal. With Reach, she just has slightly more knowledge about the Forerunner systems. OR, with the data from the Forerunner structure carried by the fragment is what told her those coordinates were really important, just not what. Either way, saying she didn't know that something was there and was massively important is stupid.


She didn't know whatsoever and says it herself that she was testing the coordinates. The Covenant are always going to great lengths to get forerunner relics, the crystal was no different.

She Had no idea whatsoever on what the coordinates lead to.

Edit: And for all we know, the space battle at first could have ended somewhat quickly, with the ground battle taking so long due to the fact ships had reached the planet surface.

Edit2: I don't see any problem with Noble Team. Simply proved to the idiots saying Spartan IIIs could never perform like a Spartan II that they were wrong.

  • 04.27.2011 12:14 PM PDT

Laughing At Nothing

The problem with th PoA was that it couldn't have landed on Reach based upon the novels AND the game.

First off, when it takes off, it uses detachable rocket boosters which have to put on the ship so it can get some vertical force to help it lift off the ground. Without these boosters the ship can't take off very well(supposedly). Much like a space shuttle needs to have rockets prepped for launch; I'm guessing these probably also go through a very long process of readiness. Second, based on the Legendary easter egg, the Spartans were on board the ship at this point, which makes half of the Spartan II's "Jump from a Pelican and crash into some trees" mission redundant. If this stands, then Cortana would have also been on the PoA before the ship landed.

It could be easily fixed, I believe, if they re-write parts of TFoR, but TFoR was a sort of lore bible of what happens before the original trilogy, and it's been around a hell of a lot longer than Halo : Reach has.

  • 04.27.2011 12:27 PM PDT

She didn't know halo was there, but she knew it was IMPORTANT. Otherwise she wouldn't have used the coordinates.

As the the corvettes, you didn't say that, but if they were in orbit above friendly lines, it'd be friendly fire to take them out.

As for 'internet' Very first mission, major relay went down. I believe there is radio chatter about it actually. Civilians are wondering why it went down and go between "Rebels?" to "Could it be the covenant?"

Not to mention that if the UNSC didn't have any forces defending reach then the siege sure hell wouldn't take that long. The point of reach falling in a day had a clear significance which was ignored for the sake of the game to make humanity look like something. What? i don't know.

I didn't say that, I simply said that is what I see implied sometimes. People go Reach fell in a day, as well as saying as long as the generators were online the line would hold.

So for Reach to fall within hours would mean the generator defenses were not that great.

Reach falling within a day was not the significance. It was that Reach FELL. Civilians and UNSC wouldn't go "Reach fell in a few hours!" They'd go "Did you hear? Reach was destroyed!" The amount of time wouldn't be the major thing.

As somebody once said concerning the subject. Reach falling within hours just doesn't make sense seeing as it was the second most defended Planet the UNSC had. He also said for it too fall within hours portrays the UNSC as either tactically stupid or incredibly weak, and the Covenant as god-like.

  • 04.27.2011 12:38 PM PDT


Posted by: LordQuagga
The problem with th PoA was that it couldn't have landed on Reach based upon the novels AND the game.

First off, when it takes off, it uses detachable rocket boosters which have to put on the ship so it can get some vertical force to help it lift off the ground. Without these boosters the ship can't take off very well(supposedly). Much like a space shuttle needs to have rockets prepped for launch; I'm guessing these probably also go through a very long process of readiness. Second, based on the Legendary easter egg, the Spartans were on board the ship at this point, which makes half of the Spartan II's "Jump from a Pelican and crash into some trees" mission redundant. If this stands, then Cortana would have also been on the PoA before the ship landed.

It could be easily fixed, I believe, if they re-write parts of TFoR, but TFoR was a sort of lore bible of what happens before the original trilogy, and it's been around a hell of a lot longer than Halo : Reach has.


Tfor was simply the first book released. It used the first versions of the HSB.

Also, the rocket boosters were more to let the engines heat up and activate IMO.

And... the PoA easter egg of the Spartan in the cryotube in the middle of the bloody hanger isn't canon. It's an easter egg. Why would you take it as canon? Does buck eat bugs off monkeys in ONI stations and does Johnson hug an Elite before being blown to bits?

  • 04.27.2011 12:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron


Reach falling within a day was not the significance. It was that Reach FELL. Civilians and UNSC wouldn't go "Reach fell in a few hours!" They'd go "Did you hear? Reach was destroyed!" The amount of time wouldn't be the major thing.

As somebody once said concerning the subject. Reach falling within hours just doesn't make sense seeing as it was the second most defended Planet the UNSC had. He also said for it too fall within hours portrays the UNSC as either tactically stupid or incredibly weak, and the Covenant as god-like.


IT was a mixture of both, the fact reach fell (meaning earth was next) and the fact it fell under a day (showing the covenant are still strong after 21 years or so.

*Sigh* people truly don't understand the details of the battle of reach.

In all honesty Reach fell due to the UNSC being inferior to the covenant in space. The space battle is what lasted 2 hours and is what most of us refer to when we say reach fell in a day.
Yes the Macs are what held the line, but when hundreds of covenant ground forces overran them they began to fall and the UNSC lost the space battle.

Skirmishes on the ground lasted weeks maybe just about a month the two forces battled on the surface of the planet; With the UNSC trying to secretively get anyone that was on the planet off while the spartans were having their adventure.


So it is the space battle that is heavily talked about and refereed to when we say reach fell in a day. But even i say the skirmishes on the ground might have lasted up to a month but not a day longer.

  • 04.27.2011 12:49 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

Fix the Canon? Halsey was supposed to have no knowledge of a Spartan III program until after the events of Halo: CE. Attempting to fix Reach is impossible. In my mind Halo Reach will NEVER be canon.

{Halo Wars, Halo CE, Halo 2,ODST, Halo 3, and All Novels} = Canon. They follow a linear story which rely on eachother for support.

Reach =/= Canon. Reach just throws a wrench into it. Even Halo Legends' Spartan 1337 is more acceptable.

[Edited on 04.27.2011 1:48 PM PDT]

  • 04.27.2011 1:13 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Halsey didn't know that Noble was comprised of S-IIIs, she only suspected. She found out about S-IIIs in Frist Strike

  • 04.28.2011 3:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Halsey didn't know that Noble was comprised of S-IIIs, she only suspected. She found out about S-IIIs in Frist Strike

No, she found out about them in Onyx.

She found the files in first strike but didn't read them or meet the S3s until onyx.

  • 04.28.2011 3:08 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Sector Z 157
Fix the Canon? Halsey was supposed to have no knowledge of a Spartan III program until after the events of Halo: CE. Attempting to fix Reach is impossible. In my mind Halo Reach will NEVER be canon.

{Halo Wars, Halo CE, Halo 2,ODST, Halo 3, and All Novels} = Canon. They follow a linear story which rely on eachother for support.

Reach =/= Canon. Reach just throws a wrench into it. Even Halo Legends' Spartan 1337 is more acceptable.


Actually, Halo Wars raises more discrepancies relating to the Fall of Reach.

In The Fall of Reach it's stated that all 33 surviving Spartan II's with the exception of Gray Team had been gathered at Reach, then Halsey states that in the last decade 2542-2552; 3 Spartans had been KIA and one had been wounded too severely for active duty.

This leaves the number of Spartans at 28, with only 25 being at reach. It is also mentioned that 27 Spartans headed to Reach's surface, this is implausible seeing how James, John and Linda had been above Reach and thus were not counted. This leaves the number of Spartans in Reach as 30 although this doesn't take the MIA's, KIA's and WIA's in count.

Then Halo Wars comes along and introduces 3 other Spartan II's, Alice, Douglas and Jerome. In order for The Fall of Reach's numbers to be correct, the 3 would have to be present at the battle but the Spirit of Fire never (or still hasn't) made it back to human controlled space, seeing how the Flood was never known of until Halo Combat Evolved.

Also, in the Halo Wars timeline its mentioned that 25 out of the 28 surviving Spartans are in Reach with Gray Team being left out of the count. This means that Red Team made it back to Reach in time for the battle and thus, raises the question, why didn't humanity know of the Flood if they made it back?

EDIT to add more.

Then we have the Halo Legends discrepancy with 8 more Spartan II's being introduced and then killed. Cal, Solomon, Arthur, Daisy, Joseph and two other Spartans that commit suicide after finding out about their flash clones and Sheila whom is killed before The Package takes place.

If Samuel, Kurt, Sheila, Cal, Arthur, Maria, Randall, Solomon, Daisy, Joseph and the two Spartans that suicided along with Gray Team are taken out of the count then we have only 16 Spartans in Reach. Add Jorge to the Mix and The Pillar of Autumn would had released 15 Spartans, 3 to Gamma Station and 12 to Reach.

[Edited on 04.28.2011 3:26 PM PDT]

  • 04.28.2011 3:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: Sector Z 157
Fix the Canon? Halsey was supposed to have no knowledge of a Spartan III program until after the events of Halo: CE. Attempting to fix Reach is impossible. In my mind Halo Reach will NEVER be canon.

{Halo Wars, Halo CE, Halo 2,ODST, Halo 3, and All Novels} = Canon. They follow a linear story which rely on eachother for support.

Reach =/= Canon. Reach just throws a wrench into it. Even Halo Legends' Spartan 1337 is more acceptable.


Actually, Halo Wars raises more discrepancies relating to the Fall of Reach.

In The Fall of Reach it's stated that all 33 surviving Spartan II's with the exception of Gray Team had been gathered at Reach, then Halsey states that in the last decade 2542-2552; 3 Spartans had been KIA and one had been wounded too severely for active duty.

This leaves the number of Spartans at 28, with only 25 being at reach. It is also mentioned that 27 Spartans headed to Reach's surface, this is implausible seeing how James, John and Linda had been above Reach and thus were not counted. This leaves the number of Spartans in Reach as 30 although this doesn't take the MIA's, KIA's and WIA's in count.

Then Halo Wars comes along and introduces 3 other Spartan II's, Alice, Douglas and Jerome. In order for The Fall of Reach's numbers to be correct, the 3 would have to be present at the battle but the Spirit of Fire never (or still hasn't) made it back to human controlled space, seeing how the Flood was never known of until Halo Combat Evolved.

Also, in the Halo Wars timeline its mentioned that 25 out of the 28 surviving Spartans are in Reach with Gray Team being left out of the count. This means that Red Team made it back to Reach in time for the battle and thus, raises the question, why didn't humanity know of the Flood if they made it back?


That isn't an issue at all.

We had long speculated that the SoF made it back due to oni knowing about the flood, this knowledge came from an extremely old weekly update around the time or IRIS that i have been looking for in vein for years.

Our speculation was pretty much confirmed in the story Mona Lisa; With ONI being at the ruins of installation 4 before john had even returned to reach. They are using prisoners to experiment the flood on along with captured covenant solders.

Thus the SoF made it back but was detained by ONI. Alice, Jerome, and Douglas could be the un-named spartans that died during the pelican jumpoff over reach.

  • 04.28.2011 3:27 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Then we have the Halo Legends discrepancy with 8 more Spartan II's being introduced and then killed. Cal, Solomon, Arthur, Daisy, Joseph and two other Spartans that commit suicide after finding out about their flash clones and Sheila whom is killed before The Package takes place.

If Samuel, Kurt, Sheila, Cal, Arthur, Maria, Randall, Solomon, Daisy, Joseph and the two Spartans that suicided along with Gray Team are taken out of the count then we have only 16 Spartans in Reach. Add Jorge to the Mix and The Pillar of Autumn would had released 15 Spartans, 3 to Gamma Station and 12 to Reach.


In case you didn't see it at the bottom of my post.

  • 04.28.2011 3:37 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Then we have the Halo Legends discrepancy with 8 more Spartan II's being introduced and then killed. Cal, Solomon, Arthur, Daisy, Joseph and two other Spartans that commit suicide after finding out about their flash clones and Sheila whom is killed before The Package takes place.

If Samuel, Kurt, Sheila, Cal, Arthur, Maria, Randall, Solomon, Daisy, Joseph and the two Spartans that suicided along with Gray Team are taken out of the count then we have only 16 Spartans in Reach. Add Jorge to the Mix and The Pillar of Autumn would had released 15 Spartans, 3 to Gamma Station and 12 to Reach.


In case you didn't see it at the bottom of my post.


Thanks i didn't read that bit.

To be honest that is just nasty business that shouldn't have been done in the first place. Nothing we currently know of can be a "solution" other than 343 coming out and explaining it.

This is a big issue that we can't fix and we should just sticker and put in the "wait until further knowledge to discuss" box.

  • 04.28.2011 3:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Sector Z 157
Fix the Canon? Halsey was supposed to have no knowledge of a Spartan III program until after the events of Halo: CE. Attempting to fix Reach is impossible. In my mind Halo Reach will NEVER be canon.

{Halo Wars, Halo CE, Halo 2,ODST, Halo 3, and All Novels} = Canon. They follow a linear story which rely on eachother for support.

Reach =/= Canon. Reach just throws a wrench into it. Even Halo Legends' Spartan 1337 is more acceptable.


And Halsey still didn't know about the IIIs until she had time to study the files she downloaded off of the data she found in Ackerson's office or whatever it was. Her journal states that she has had suspicions that ONI has been creating more Spartans due to medical supplies used for augmentations being transported around suspiciously and an entire hospital ship disappearing for a short while for the augmentation process of Alpha Company. So Halsey seeing Noble Team confirmed that ONI was indeed creating more Spartans, and she would have found out about the IIIs if Reach hadn't been attacked and she'd had the time to go digging around, plus she had the data from the "Latchkey" Artifact to go through under Sword Base. So she still doesn't know about the IIIs until First Strike when she goes through Ackerson's files while on the Ascendant Justice.

You can dislike it all you want (and I really don't care whether people like Reach or not), but it is just as much canon as every other story from the Halo Universe. Anything published or put out that has to do with Halo is canon unless otherwise stated such as the case with Odd One Out.

  • 04.29.2011 2:36 PM PDT

Beware Qbix89! That master ninja will lay the smackdown on your troll thread!

Spiderstosh, Spiderstosh...does whatever a Spiderstosh does. Breaks the interwebs in his prime...guess who is....to blame this time? Spiderstosh...it is the Spiderstoooosh. -SonicJohn

The fact that people are too busy whining about Reach not being canon to try and tie together the loose ends that can be fixed is something that really irks me.

For example, people are all OMG WHY REACH NO CALL FOR HELP.

The first mission you participate in depicts Reach being cut off from communication with the rest of the colonies, with a repair leading to function set at two weeks at the earliest.

if anything, this explains the lack of knowledge on the part of the rest of the UNSC of the attack on Reach.


the following missions take place in this dark period, and the fighting is regulated to only one specific province on Reach. It's very likely that the whole thing was kept as hush hush as possible. By the time the supercarrier has made it's presence known, the communications tower has been repaired and reinforcements are on their way to reach, to take out a single supercarrier accompanied by a few corvettes. At the time, There's no sign of an immediate full scale invasion. No need to sound the large scale invasion alarm yet, but they're on alert.

When the main invasion force arrives, that's when the canon gets stretched. Rather than getting pummeled to death in a matter of hours, Reach holds out for about two weeks against the main Covenant invasion. While I know that this contradicts the books, I find it more believable considering that Reach is essentially the fortress world of the UNSC.

The pillar of autumn is a difficult one to explain, and one I can't bend the facts I have around at the moment. My best guess is that during the chief's op, the PoA makes a quick trip to the surface to retrieve half of cortana, and hops back up to pick up John and Linda afterwards.

Honestly though, some things don't add up, but I think that there will be some work done to fix the issues in the future without completely changing the story.

  • 05.13.2011 8:51 AM PDT

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