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Subject: The Fall of Reach/Halo:Reach-They CAN coexisist

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.



True. TFoR obviously went into greater detail and had better characters (but this is far easier to achieve in a book) but the whole idea that reach fell in such a short time is not logical at all.

Reach is far more realistic and far more logical in terms of the dates and whatnot
How is it not realistic? The Covenant outnumbered, and outclassed, the UNSC. Reach falling in a day sounds very realistic.

Yeah, but when I read it, that "overwhelming" fleet deal sounded like a cop-out ending.


Posted by: Hyperion

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.


Hurt Durrell, Halo CE is old too, let's replace it!

A book is easier to retcon than a game. U mad?

[Edited on 04.25.2011 10:40 AM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 10:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hyperion

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.


Hurt Durrell, Halo CE is old too, let's replace it!
Microsoft plans to.

  • 04.25.2011 10:47 AM PDT


Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.



True. TFoR obviously went into greater detail and had better characters (but this is far easier to achieve in a book) but the whole idea that reach fell in such a short time is not logical at all.

Reach is far more realistic and far more logical in terms of the dates and whatnot
How is it not realistic? The Covenant outnumbered, and outclassed, the UNSC. Reach falling in a day sounds very realistic.


As somebody said before, it ended up sounding stupid.

"As long as the supermacs are online, the line will hold."

So those generators must me the most heavily guarded locations on the planet right? Nope, overrun very quickly.

  • 04.25.2011 11:00 AM PDT


Posted by: xXFatal v1

Posted by: Hyperion

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.


Hurt Durrell, Halo CE is old too, let's replace it!
Microsoft plans to.


False, Microsoft and 343 have both said remakes are not in their plans.

343 outright said they'd be lazy if they added nothing to the lore.

  • 04.25.2011 11:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.

It really is. First Strike too. Spartan numbers, first encounters with elites, hunters, brutes, prophets, and I think engineers being retconned since it was first released.

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
the whole idea that reach fell in such a short time is not logical at all.

Agreed. Theres been shootouts that lasted longer than this battle. I actually really like this change. It made it seem like the UNSC weren't the pushovers they often appear to be. Unfortunatly I don't think Reach took full advantage of this.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides, it always can fall under the oh so typical military viewpoints.

To the commander, it fell in a day. To the footsoldier, it fell after a week.

Isn't that basically what happened anyway? The fleet hauled ass out of there and the soldiers stranded on the ground fought until they got glassed, overrun, or are still alive and are hiding since apparently the covenant can't glass entire planets anymore.

[Edited on 04.25.2011 11:11 AM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 11:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Nameless Oracle

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.

It really is. First Strike too. Spartan numbers, first encounters with elites, hunters, brutes, prophets, and I think engineers being retconned since it was first released.

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
the whole idea that reach fell in such a short time is not logical at all.

Agreed. Theres been shootouts that lasted longer than this battle.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides, it always can fall under the oh so typical military viewpoints.

To the commander, it fell in a day. To the footsoldier, it fell after a week.

Isn't that basically what happened anyway? The fleet hauled ass out of there and the soldiers stranded on the ground fought until they got glassed, overrun, or are still alive and are hiding since apparently the covenant can't glass entire planets anymore.


Actually... they can glass planets.

What's been changed is the concept on how much damage is done. The planets are not turned completely into marbles, instead just burnt to where no life is on the planet.

Added to the fact we've never gotten an account Covenant-side of a complete glassing, and the UNSC never stayed to either watch the glassing fully or returned to the planet...

  • 04.25.2011 11:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually... they can glass planets.

What's been changed is the concept on how much damage is done. The planets are not turned completely into marbles, instead just burnt to where no life is on the planet.

I thought the datapads said they couldn't even do that and they just glassed population centers and military bases.

I need to re read them to be sure.

edit: I don't know where I heard that but it wasn't in the datapads.*shrugs* Nevermind then.

(Off topic: Retyping this since apparently the first one was sucked into internet hell. If it pops up somewhere......yeah I don't know WTF happened)

[Edited on 04.25.2011 11:41 AM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 11:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Nameless Oracle

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually... they can glass planets.

What's been changed is the concept on how much damage is done. The planets are not turned completely into marbles, instead just burnt to where no life is on the planet.

I thought the datapads said they couldn't even do that and they just glassed population centers and military bases.

I need to re read them to be sure.

(Off topic: Retyping this since apparently the first one was sucked into internet hell. If it pops up somewhere......yeah I don't know WTF happened)


Yeah, they glass those zones, but if they using the glassing beam to simply burn enough of the planet, it'll pretty much turn it into a wasteland.

  • 04.25.2011 11:41 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.


I agree almost completely, I mean the whole book doesn't have to be scrapped, but quite a bit of it has been retconned already, such as the Elites and Hunters not being fought until the year Reach fell, that doesn't make any sense at all, and the length of the battle should be retconned, Humanities' strongest military world falling in a matter of a couple hours is almost ludicrous, especially given all the information about the UNSC's forces present, which was most of their fleet, the SMACs, and a great many of their greatest military strategists there such as the likes of Captain Keyes. The space battle definitely would have taken a whole helluva lot longer than a couple hours.

  • 04.25.2011 5:02 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Hyperion
Scrap Reach, TFoR should take priority.

It's outdated.


I agree almost completely, I mean the whole book doesn't have to be scrapped, but quite a bit of it has been retconned already, such as the Elites and Hunters not being fought until the year Reach fell, that doesn't make any sense at all, and the length of the battle should be retconned, Humanities' strongest military world falling in a matter of a couple hours is almost ludicrous, especially given all the information about the UNSC's forces present, which was most of their fleet, the SMACs, and a great many of their greatest military strategists there such as the likes of Captain Keyes. The space battle definitely would have taken a whole helluva lot longer than a couple hours.

So true.

  • 04.25.2011 6:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
There was only 20 orbital macs ( i think), They were probably in more important areas of reach, I don't think some farm land is worth pertecting.


All 20 were in a single location as well.

People -blam!- at them not shooting down the LNOS or showing up in that mission? Well it's literally called the Long Night of Solace was on the other side of the planet from the super-macs.

So, what you're saying, is that the most powerful weapon in the UNSC arsenal can easily be completely circumvented by the Covenant, yet it still took almost a month for them to take the planet, and they still fed countless ships at the MACs for no reason?

You're also implying that the UNSC is dumb enough to make their super weapons immovable, expecting the Covenant to be stupid enough to rush into them headfirst ala Empire Strikes Back?

Come on.

  • 04.25.2011 6:31 PM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
There was only 20 orbital macs ( i think), They were probably in more important areas of reach, I don't think some farm land is worth pertecting.


All 20 were in a single location as well.

People -blam!- at them not shooting down the LNOS or showing up in that mission? Well it's literally called the Long Night of Solace was on the other side of the planet from the super-macs.

So, what you're saying, is that the most powerful weapon in the UNSC arsenal can easily be completely circumvented by the Covenant, yet it still took almost a month for them to take the planet, and they still fed countless ships at the MACs for no reason?

You're also implying that the UNSC is dumb enough to make their super weapons immovable, expecting the Covenant to be stupid enough to rush into them headfirst ala Empire Strikes Back?

Come on.


They did...

Any way the covies would need to get to those macs to kill the more populate areas!

[Edited on 04.25.2011 6:34 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 6:32 PM PDT


Posted by: Docterweegee

Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
There was only 20 orbital macs ( i think), They were probably in more important areas of reach, I don't think some farm land is worth pertecting.


All 20 were in a single location as well.

People -blam!- at them not shooting down the LNOS or showing up in that mission? Well it's literally called the Long Night of Solace was on the other side of the planet from the super-macs.

So, what you're saying, is that the most powerful weapon in the UNSC arsenal can easily be completely circumvented by the Covenant, yet it still took almost a month for them to take the planet, and they still fed countless ships at the MACs for no reason?

You're also implying that the UNSC is dumb enough to make their super weapons immovable, expecting the Covenant to be stupid enough to rush into them headfirst ala Empire Strikes Back?

Come on.


They did...

First of all, ODP's are not all put together in one cluster; they would be spread out enough to cover at the very least a large section of the planet.

Aside from that, give me a quote where it says that the ODP's cannot be moved. They have engines that allow them to rotate and fire in different directions, it would seem entirely plausible they can also move to fire from a different location.

Why would the Covenant need to kill the ODP's at all? They could simply land on the uncovered portion of the planet, easily overrun the generators, and never have to fight them at all.

As they do in Reach. But, for some reason, the Covenant was stupid enough to wait until their main fleet arrived, suicidally charged the ODP's, dropped troops at either pole, and THEN took the Generators. This is why the two plots cannot co-exist. Both sides would need to make laughably horrible decisions, to the point it isn't even plausible anymore.

If Bungie wants to dump tFoR, then fine. They should say that's what their doing, and do it. Not insist they somehow stick together, when they don't.

[Edited on 04.25.2011 6:40 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 6:37 PM PDT

What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

[Edited on 04.25.2011 6:46 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 6:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Docterweegee
What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

Where was I trying to connect them?
I am pointing out that the ODP's MUST be moveable, because otherwise, the Covenant would have overrun Reach quicker than they did in the book!

And the Covenant were clearly not only in farmland, as by the time of LNOS the Covenant are openly attacking UNSC installations as remote as secret launch facilities, having already (as implied by Kat) destroyed much of the UNSC forces.

[Edited on 04.25.2011 6:52 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 6:52 PM PDT

I am the God Emprah of Mankind.

Deal with it.

Maybe the Pillar of Autumn in space was just a decoy for the one on the ground.

  • 04.25.2011 7:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Docterweegee
What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

Where was I trying to connect them?
I am pointing out that the ODP's MUST be moveable, because otherwise, the Covenant would have overrun Reach quicker than they did in the book!

And the Covenant were clearly not only in farmland, as by the time of LNOS the Covenant are openly attacking UNSC installations as remote as secret launch facilities, having already (as implied by Kat) destroyed much of the UNSC forces.

Were the ODPs not in geosynchronous orbit at fixed points?

  • 04.25.2011 7:03 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Docterweegee
What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

Where was I trying to connect them?
I am pointing out that the ODP's MUST be moveable, because otherwise, the Covenant would have overrun Reach quicker than they did in the book!

And the Covenant were clearly not only in farmland, as by the time of LNOS the Covenant are openly attacking UNSC installations as remote as secret launch facilities, having already (as implied by Kat) destroyed much of the UNSC forces.

Were the ODPs not in geosynchronous orbit at fixed points?

In tFoR, when Captain Keyes is returning to the fight at Reach, he warns the ODP's that Covenant ships are attempting to flank the Fleet, at which point they spin to take out the Covenant ships, implying some sort of propulsion to allow them to do so.

  • 04.25.2011 7:08 PM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Docterweegee
What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

Where was I trying to connect them?
I am pointing out that the ODP's MUST be moveable, because otherwise, the Covenant would have overrun Reach quicker than they did in the book!

And the Covenant were clearly not only in farmland, as by the time of LNOS the Covenant are openly attacking UNSC installations as remote as secret launch facilities, having already (as implied by Kat) destroyed much of the UNSC forces.

Were the ODPs not in geosynchronous orbit at fixed points?

In tFoR, when Captain Keyes is returning to the fight at Reach, he warns the ODP's that Covenant ships are attempting to flank the Fleet, at which point they spin to take out the Covenant ships, implying some sort of propulsion to allow them to do so.


Well just because something has a propulsion unit of some sort does not mean it can move itself to a completely different part of the planet. I'm sure and ODP can be moved from position, it would just take some effort.

  • 04.25.2011 7:33 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: Docterweegee
What you said was disproving both HR and TFoR, You did not connect them.
They were in farm land at the time

Where was I trying to connect them?
I am pointing out that the ODP's MUST be moveable, because otherwise, the Covenant would have overrun Reach quicker than they did in the book!

And the Covenant were clearly not only in farmland, as by the time of LNOS the Covenant are openly attacking UNSC installations as remote as secret launch facilities, having already (as implied by Kat) destroyed much of the UNSC forces.

Were the ODPs not in geosynchronous orbit at fixed points?

In tFoR, when Captain Keyes is returning to the fight at Reach, he warns the ODP's that Covenant ships are attempting to flank the Fleet, at which point they spin to take out the Covenant ships, implying some sort of propulsion to allow them to do so.


Well just because something has a propulsion unit of some sort does not mean it can move itself to a completely different part of the planet. I'm sure and ODP can be moved from position, it would just take some effort.


Even if it could move around the planet, it'd take forever to do so.

The reason the ODP were all at one point is the fact it's stated in the book (from memory) that ALL of them opened fire on the fleet. To do so means they'd have to be all on the same side of the planet at least.

Likewise, I believe it's stated the debris field from the repair stations used as shields covered all the ODPs.

  • 04.25.2011 8:06 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

I've already started to try to find explainable "errors" to the canon, especially for the ODPs

  • 04.25.2011 10:28 PM PDT


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
I've already started to try to find explainable "errors" to the canon, especially for the ODPs


Even if we prove them, people wont accept them. There will always be a "is AL canon?" thread on univerce, there will always be a "bloom sucks" thread, it will never end...

[Edited on 04.25.2011 10:45 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 10:44 PM PDT

I say blame it all on the Timey-Wimey Balls introduced by that Forerunner relic under Menachite Mountain. If it warped the time frames, it might maybe fit.

  • 04.26.2011 1:49 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Even if it could move around the planet, it'd take forever to do so.

The reason the ODP were all at one point is the fact it's stated in the book (from memory) that ALL of them opened fire on the fleet. To do so means they'd have to be all on the same side of the planet at least.

Likewise, I believe it's stated the debris field from the repair stations used as shields covered all the ODPs.


I'm pretty sure they have ODPs all around the planet, or closer to all around. It was just the SMACs that were all together in one group.

I don't think the SMACs were the only ODPs they had up there, probably the most powerful piece of orbital equipment, yes, but definitely not the only ODPs up there.

  • 04.26.2011 5:36 PM PDT

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