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  • Subject: Who's the most powerful "ancient" alien race?
Subject: Who's the most powerful "ancient" alien race?

Posted by: ROBERTO jh



Howabout you show me that quote? No idiot in their right mind would seriously believe a Corvette can kill a Reaper.

The weakest ship I said was CCS Class Cruiser, on account of their megatonnage weaponry, which in retrospect might be an even match for Sovereign on account of his durability. Stop paraphrasing and warping my posts to make me look like and idiot.


The thread is closed, so I can't quote it without doing it manually. It's the second last post on the page.

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=50845827&p ostRepeater1-p=13

  • 05.02.2011 4:31 AM PDT

why the hell are people bringing 'gods' into this debate, they have no place in here, when talking about the Ancients I never mentioned them ascended, pre-ascension is the maximum level I would say. so either don't bother commenting or leave 'gods' out of this, please physical species only. also the Reapers aren't even in this debate really, since they just don't have the technology to compete with the others mentioned. hell with regards to Warhammer, removing all the game-play restrictions a Necron escort could probably take on a Reaper single handedly, a Tomb-ship certainly could without any trouble at all.

whoever brought the Necrontyr into this debate, I believe they are the most powerful of the bunch based on what I have read about them from Warhammer and what not. with their weapons that strip targets atom by atom, in seconds regardless of armour, or phase weapons that simply pass through everything, I don't see how either the Necrons or the Ancients are supposed to combat them, not to mention Cairns (Tomb-ship) are really quite large and insanely well armed, the bigger fact remains there is no actual number of how many Necrons there are in the galaxy only that their number is 'legion' and that its heavily implied that they are 'unstoppable'.

as someone previously mentioned, a bunch of Shroud light cruisers manage to penetrate and land on the planet Mars, which is located in the single heaviest defended system in human territory, with countless thousands of ships, thousands of orbital platforms, trillions of soldiers and those Necron ships strolled in like it was nothing. also Halo is simple to destroy, it is so structurally unstable its unreal, a single well placed shot to a part of it and the whole thing falls crumbles, in the book it even mentions this fragility, so one can't use that as an accurate measure of Forerunner warships since it is no achievement destroying something that is naturally simple to destroy!

  • 05.02.2011 5:09 AM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: ROBERTO jh



Howabout you show me that quote? No idiot in their right mind would seriously believe a Corvette can kill a Reaper.

The weakest ship I said was CCS Class Cruiser, on account of their megatonnage weaponry, which in retrospect might be an even match for Sovereign on account of his durability. Stop paraphrasing and warping my posts to make me look like and idiot.


The thread is closed, so I can't quote it without doing it manually. It's the second last post on the page.

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=50845827&p ostRepeater1-p=13


Ah, I see. Apologies. That was a long time ago, before I realized that, technically, considering plasma has mass, the brunt of the blast would be repelled by kinetic shielding. Doesn't make the heat any less effective however.

As it is, currently, the weakest Covenant ship that could take a Reaper is likely a CCS. Corvettes don't appear to have shields, (and weaker, point defense weapons, rather then real cannons) so they're out of the fight

Still though, lets just say for a second that the Reapers defeated the Forerunners. You say they can, so this is what I'm hearing

(DISCLAIMER: Everything I'm about to say about the Forerunnrers is true; if you ask me to prove it, I'll prove it, later today when I get back home).

So the Reapers beat the Forerunners. First things first: Reapers are invaders, not destroyers, not WMDs, they invade and conquer worlds and kidnap civilizations to reproduce. Not like the Covenant which just outright kills everyone.

So the Reapers can invade 3million worlds, break through the Forerunners' defenses which, I remind you, is composed of trillions of ships and craft, most of them likely automated, some others piloted (unless the military is really that expanded). Each one of these ships has planet breaking weaponry; the smallest ship in the Forerunner fleet known is literally called a "Planet Breaker." Whos automated weapon systems and fighter craft blow continents to pieces, whos ship cannons use stars as supernova bombs.

And assuming they don't get beamed to death in space, they can succesfully land an inasion army of Husks, overthrow a race of creatures who's civillians wear power armor, who's military wears Power Armor up to and including nine times more powerful then the Chief's (scale of 1-18 I believe, MJOLNIR being 2), armor that makes you virtually immortal and immune to diseases and the dangers of the outside world.

A military force who use AI the likes of which we can scarcely imagine, the Commanders of which are linked on a consciouss level called the domain (galaxy's internet so to speak) allowing for commands to be given at the speed of thought, whos memories and experience can be passed down to other Forerunners (failsafe, if a commander dies, that commander's experience could be kept safe in another Forerunner).

And they can do all of this, wipe them clean off the face of the universe, but they struggle in defeating a tier 3 civilization with mass drivers the strongest of which is only half as strong as the UNSC's weakest MAC gun, the Frigate MAC.

See why I'm frustrated?

  • 05.02.2011 5:34 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: teekuppi

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: spurkis
I stopped posting here after I saw ROBERTO's post in another thread saying that a Covenant Corvette could destroy Sovereign with no problem. I just felt there was no point in discussing further.


Howabout you show me that quote? No idiot in their right mind would seriously believe a Corvette can kill a Reaper.

The weakest ship I said was CCS Class Cruiser, on account of their megatonnage weaponry, which in retrospect might be an even match for Sovereign on account of his durability. Stop paraphrasing and warping my posts to make me look like and idiot.


In 40k ships bombarding planet from orbit ''boiled oceans away, shattered mountains and cracked the surface''. This was achieved by standard imperial ships in book Nemesis. Since Necron weaponry is in numerous ways more efficient, it can be believed that their weaponry can also destroy planets. Reapers havent done such deeds yet, or have they? If they havent, I dont believe that they have weaponry is powerfull enough to do proper harm to necron fleets.

And oh, to destroy Precursors. Again, I take chaos god here, Nurgle and have fun with it. Since Nurgle is god of diseases and is able to create uncurable diseases, such as Nurgle's rot. If they precursors or / and forerunners could create somehow guarantine zones, chaos gods could simply create warp storms to spread it.

About Nurgle's rot:

It is completely incurable, highly infectious, has a very slow course that turns the infected into bloated, rotting, corpses, and worst of all it corrupts the soul of the infected into new Plaguebearers.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

I say that because the Precursor's technology called Neural Physics is unique to Halo. The only way that another race could possibly harm a Precursor ship is if it fired a weapon with the exact same specifications and Neural Science as Halo. As it stands, no other universe has this science.


False. Tzeentch is god of knowledge and change, and every thought, creation or anything that has happened, is known by Tzeentch, because all information can be found on the Hidden library.

This means, that if Tzeentch can have knowledge about Precursor weaponry and how it works, so can other beings in 40k too.

THE EDIT: I will come back to talk about Ancients soon, now I have to do some research about them.


All info from the 40k universe,not the Haloverse.Unless you can prove otherwise.

  • 05.02.2011 9:41 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

@teekuppi

-Evidence and quotes for those claims would be appreciated

-Prove me that C'tan can't be killed

-*facedesk*
Those things happened within warpspace,when did Forerunners ever travelled through that

-Bombardement destroys the surface huh...Forerunner ground assests can do that to(previous pages contain quotes)

-You will prove me that disease can effect a transsentient being who was even able to survive the Halo wave.
Forerunner armor protects them against any diseases.

Forerunners can't catch Human disease-or any diseases,if they wear armor-but only reluctantly did i share the warm liquid.

This is from chapter 2 it's online,check it if you have the book cuz can't get my book at this moment.

@xd00999

-How?Tomb world aren't Forerunner worlds.

-Eh...all the Forerunner fleet has to do is use 1/2 to fight the necros;the others detonate the sun.There is might even be evidence that a single ship could do that.

-That's no evidenced unless the imperium firepower exceeds the a supernovas power.Which clearly isn't,or else every ship has Death star firepower on it.Tomb worlds on planets would not escape.

I have a question,do the necrons have any computers aboard their ships or are they completely organic?

@plutonium

Same with the Onyx sentinels,who were able to adapt to everything jsut like plasma capture.Fine teleport some necrons into a Forerunner ship and they can expect being injected into space,because Forerunner ships can change their interior because nearly all of the ship is made of Hardlight.

I doubt their regenartion will help them against slipspace rupture attacks(in terminal 6 OB used it against MB)

Thay "phase out" tactic is just the same as making pinpoint.
slipspace jumps around the battlefield.


Also Xeelee are powerful,yes but the Downstreamers are even more stronger .







  • 05.02.2011 10:10 AM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Reapers beating Forerunners? WTF. The Forerunners' ground troops destroy planets. Wha... the Reapers can't stand up to that. If a Reaper is KIA by a stinking THRESHER MAW, it's definitely going to be wrecked by a Promethean Warrior-Servant.

Heck, the Ancients would be able to stop the Reapers. Drones ignore shields, remember? And don't get me started on ZPMs.

Just had a thought, imagine a Forerunner Fortress-class vessel powered by 3+ ZPMs... definition of overpowered.

  • 05.02.2011 10:41 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Reapers beating Forerunners? WTF. The Forerunners' ground troops destroy planets. Wha... the Reapers can't stand up to that. If a Reaper is KIA by a stinking THRESHER MAW, it's definitely going to be wrecked by a Promethean Warrior-Servant.

Heck, the Ancients would be able to stop the Reapers. Drones ignore shields, remember? And don't get me started on ZPMs.

Just had a thought, imagine a Forerunner Fortress-class vessel powered by 3+ ZPMs... definition of overpowered.
the shear might would be able to crack galaxys apart

  • 05.02.2011 11:01 AM PDT

Reapers shouldn't be on here. There is very little info on them, so they can't be compared to other races yet. At the moment from what I know from the Reapers, they are probably just under the Covenant technology wise. I have no idea what the other races are though.

For those of you who disagree, lets try and be nice about this and not behave like a jerk.

[Edited on 05.02.2011 11:18 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 11:15 AM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Buzz the Fuzz
Reapers shouldn't be on here. There is very little info on them, so they can't be compared to other races yet. At the moment from what I know from the Reapers, they are probably just under the Covenant technology wise. I have no idea what the other races are though.

For those of you who disagree, lets try and be nice about this and not behave like a jerk.

I like this guy

  • 05.02.2011 11:30 AM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
@teekuppi

-Evidence and quotes for those claims would be appreciated



I can give certain evidences about them, just pick one for me and I'll search it.


Posted by: hotshot revan II

-Prove me that C'tan can't be killed.



If I expressed myself weirdly, sorry then. I have not said that C'tan cant be killed, but my point is that normal weaponry is pretty much useless against them. That is one reason why Necrons defeated the old ones, which was race that controlled pretty much the whole galaxy, had developed psychic power understanding and created races to fight necrons off, but they all failed. There isnt much information about Old one'ss methods of war, but those races that they created have survived 60 million years if im correct, and from those races Eldar and Orks have both been very succesfull.

The things that killed most C'tans were themselves, because they found each other to be more tasty then stars.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
@teekuppi


-*facedesk*
Those things happened within warpspace,when did Forerunners ever travelled through that



Hmm, what things? I didnt understand what part you meant from my post, could you quote it?

About that Tzeentch information thingy, Tzeentch will gain knowledge about Forerunner technology. When forerunners think, create, destroy, basicly do anything against Tzeentch, it will be known by Tzeentch and so on can be countered.

Only ''realistic'' way to kill chaos gods would be to make every living thing in exiscence somehow emotionless, or reduce amount of emotions so small, that chaos gods would be weakened enough. Im pretty sure forerunners that wont succeed if they'd try that.


Posted by: hotshot revan II


-Bombardement destroys the surface huh...Forerunner ground assests can do that to(previous pages contain quotes)



Yep, but I was talking about how alone imperial vessels could defeat Reapers. Against forerunners they would lose, yes.


Posted by: hotshot revan II

-You will prove me that disease can effect a transsentient being who was even able to survive the Halo wave.
Forerunner armor protects them against any diseases.



No idea about that one. We know, that Nurgle has Isha, the eldar goddess of healing prisoned in his realm. Since Isha is goddess of healing, she will cure herself from any disease Nurgle will spread to her.

How this works on other gods, is unknown for me. If those transsentient beings dont have ability to cure themselves, I believe that they will be turned into plaguebearers due Nurgle's rot, if that is the disease which has infected them.

Nurgle's rot works on other races, I believe. It isnt human only. Lexicanum says that ''infected'' are turned into plaguebearers, and I assume that it will so on work on numerous races.


Posted by: hotshot revan II


I have a question,do the necrons have any computers aboard their ships or are they completely organic?



No idea about that if I answer, I believe there is no fluff that tells answer to that question.

  • 05.02.2011 11:57 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

-That they had things that messed up with Tech

-It's okay,thx for the info.

-You said the Forerunners would fall to t Tzeentech,maybe i didn't understanded you point,but i thought you said his powers would mindrape the 4runners,cause the quote says so,but it only happens inside warpspace

I'll quote your post next time to make it easier,but right now i haven't much time.

  • 05.02.2011 12:16 PM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
-That they had things that messed up with Tech

-It's okay,thx for the info.

-You said the Forerunners would fall to t Tzeentech,maybe i didn't understanded you point,but i thought you said his powers would mindrape the 4runners,cause the quote says so,but it only happens inside warpspace

I'll quote your post next time to make it easier,but right now i haven't much time.


Thanks, I will appreciate it :)

But about those tech things necrons got, they wont work on warp. Necrons are very, VERY 'allergic' to warp, and so on dont exist there. If necron would somehow get to warp, it would propably be annihilated completely. Living metal wouldnt work there, I guess.

But those things happened in planet Damnos. On ground, yes, but I believe that with necron technology it wont be large problem for them to use those ablities in space combat too.

  • 05.02.2011 12:23 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

@Hotshot Revan II

While it is never said that forerunner worlds are tomb worlds, 40k takes place in the Milky Way same as Halo. At my estimates, the Forerunner Empire is the primary empire in the galaxy roughly 150000 before present day (when the precursor-forerunner war occurred). Necrons also live in the milky way galaxy though they lived in it roughly 60 million years before the the Humans or Forerunners. And because the Necron empire spanned the entire galaxy before they entered the tombs it is logical to assume that some Forerunner worlds are Tomb Worlds.

While it is fair to say that Imperial ships don't have supernova power weapons, I wish to point you towardsExterminatus. That is the blast from one cyclonic torpedo, one of the methods of exacting planetary genocide. Another thing to note is The Nova Cannon; while similar to the MAC the speed of the slug is much faster, almost light speed, and it includes an imploding charge in it's warhead. As I said before, since Tomb Worlds would logically be located on some Forerunners planets I would be surprised if the warrior cast willingly killed unevaluated Forerunner civilians.

It would also be important to note that the Necrons posses devices which allow them to slow down time as well as devices that can provide instantaneous teleportation. To top it up, Necrons are masters at fear tactics with devices that scan the find of their enemy's and project their worse fears on the battle field. Flayed ones also come to mind.

As for AI, the necrons are a machine race so AI are commonplace in the form of Scarabs and Tomb Spyders.

Edit: Necrons are not allergic to warpspace, they just really, really hate it and they refuse to go anywhere near it.
The Chaos Gods also feed off the emotions and actions of the creatures who live in universe. Hate and bloodlust empowers Khorne, -blam!-ity and Desire empowers Slaanesh, Despair and Corruption empower Nurgle and Hope and Schemes empower Tzeentch. So unless the forerunners not take any pleasure in victory, despair in defeat, anger at the enemy or hope of survival, then the gods grow stronger.

[Edited on 05.02.2011 1:36 PM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 1:27 PM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.


Posted by: Xd00999

Edit: Necrons are not allergic to warpspace, they just really, really hate it and they refuse to go anywhere near it.



I used ''allergic'', since it was during old one war pretty much the only thing that was able to harm C'tans properly.

Since necrons and C'tans both have bodies made of living metal, I believe warp works same way on necrons as it does with C'tans.

edit: Im tired, and so on correct me if im wrong.

[Edited on 05.02.2011 1:44 PM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 1:43 PM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Also Xeelee are powerful,yes but the Downstreamers are even more stronger .


Wait, thats possible?!

Now I'm interested. To the internet!

Edit: having read some quotes, I see why they're so strong: they're gods.

I said that the Xeelee is likely, along with the Precursors, the most technologically advanced/dangerous baryonic life form in science fiction. Brayonic=corporeal, with actual bodies existing in the physical universe.

Downstreamers are noncorporeal entities. Another example of this is the Gravemind. He's not a Baryonic life form so much as he is an entity. A "ghost" so to speak.

[Edited on 05.03.2011 5:15 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 2:01 PM PDT

@Xd00999

Hmmm....I had always assumed that we'd imagine these fights between two different versions of the Milky Way. A Forerunner Milky Way and a Necron MW.

Having them mix makes little sense. Going by that logic, then the Foreunners shouldn't have ever risen to power because the Necrons kept them down.

Having the two universes overlap makes for too much confusion. Assume we have a list of every Tomb World in the galaxy; if not a single one of them coincides with any of the Forerunners' 3million planets, then the Necrons don't have tomb worlds on a Forerunner world.

The two universes have different names, places, factions and the like that couldn't exist if the other exists in the same galaxy. Imagine a UNSC vs Citadel debate: the UNSC drops a NOVA bomb through the Citadel Mass Relay using the Chrion Relay around Pluto and blows it all to hell. Or better yet, we'd have a UNSC earth and Alliance earth at the same time in the same space.

So the way I've always seen it, is the two universes come from their own version of the galaxy.

  • 05.02.2011 2:11 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

All tech should be put in real life physics.

  • 05.02.2011 2:37 PM PDT

My opinion, even if kinetic barriers are impervious to heat thus impervious to plasma then all a supercarrier would have to do is nudge it. With a ship that size and advanced technology they should be able to withstand small collisions so the reapers would still die against the Covenant and UNSC used projectiles such as MAC rounds which would shred them.

  • 05.02.2011 2:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Halo_G0d
My opinion, even if kinetic barriers are impervious to heat thus impervious to plasma then all a supercarrier would have to do is nudge it. With a ship that size and advanced technology they should be able to withstand small collisions so the reapers would still die against the Covenant and UNSC used projectiles such as MAC rounds which would shred them.


Funnily enough, the ME codex literally states, Kinetic barriers are impervious only to mass objects, also llisting heat as one of the things that ignore them.

  • 05.02.2011 3:04 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
@Xd00999

Hmmm....I had always assumed that we'd imagine these fights between two different versions of the Milky Way. A Forerunner Milky Way and a Necron MW.

Having them mix makes little sense. Going by that logic, then the Foreunners shouldn't have ever risen to power because the Necrons kept them down.

Having the two universes overlap makes for too much confusion. Assume we have a list of every Tomb World in the galaxy; if not a single one of them coincides with any of the Forerunners' 3million planets, then the Necrons don't have tomb worlds on a Forerunner world.

The two universes have different names, places, factions and the like that couldn't exist if the other exists in the same galaxy. Imagine a UNSC vs Citadel debate: the UNSC drops a NOVA bomb through the Citadel Mass Relay using the Chrion Relay around Pluto and blows it all to hell. Or better yet, we'd have a UNSC earth and Alliance earth at the same time in the same space.

So the way I've always seen it, is the two universes come from their own version of the galaxy.
When I was imagining the two universes meshing I just made an assumption that the Halo series occurred when the Necrons where dormant and that the Foreruners/Precursors/Covenant never triggered their awakening.

But for this let's assume they came from different galaxies just to be fair and that both of them are at full power: the Necrons are completely awake and the C'tans are at full power and the Forerunners are not weakened by the flood, humans or precursors.

  • 05.02.2011 3:11 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Someone should quote the forerunners in the human-forerunner war.
The humans had an empire too.

  • 05.02.2011 9:07 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
@Xd00999

Hmmm....I had always assumed that we'd imagine these fights between two different versions of the Milky Way. A Forerunner Milky Way and a Necron MW.

Having them mix makes little sense. Going by that logic, then the Foreunners shouldn't have ever risen to power because the Necrons kept them down.

Having the two universes overlap makes for too much confusion. Assume we have a list of every Tomb World in the galaxy; if not a single one of them coincides with any of the Forerunners' 3million planets, then the Necrons don't have tomb worlds on a Forerunner world.

The two universes have different names, places, factions and the like that couldn't exist if the other exists in the same galaxy. Imagine a UNSC vs Citadel debate: the UNSC drops a NOVA bomb through the Citadel Mass Relay using the Chrion Relay around Pluto and blows it all to hell. Or better yet, we'd have a UNSC earth and Alliance earth at the same time in the same space.

So the way I've always seen it, is the two universes come from their own version of the galaxy.
When I was imagining the two universes meshing I just made an assumption that the Halo series occurred when the Necrons where dormant and that the Foreruners/Precursors/Covenant never triggered their awakening.

But for this let's assume they came from different galaxies just to be fair and that both of them are at full power: the Necrons are completely awake and the C'tans are at full power and the Forerunners are not weakened by the flood, humans or precursors.


I don't know a lot of the WH40K universe, but by the sounds of it, the fight would be too close really to come to a difinitive answer. Both sides use WMDs as their primary weapons, with star/planet busting cannons, so it'd come down to fights between the last ship, tactics of individual commanders, etc.

Too many variables. I'd say this one might be a tie.

  • 05.03.2011 5:26 AM PDT
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You're all dumb. It's the Xel'Naga.

  • 05.03.2011 6:07 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

@xd00999

I was wondering,your avatar,it looks alot like a Mandalorian from star wars.

  • 05.03.2011 8:02 AM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.


Posted by: Originalharry
You're all dumb. It's the Xel'Naga.


Saying that race X wins others is dumb, if you dont even give any specific reasons why Xels would win.

  • 05.03.2011 8:29 AM PDT