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  • Subject: Who's the most powerful "ancient" alien race?
Subject: Who's the most powerful "ancient" alien race?

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Omanisat
For the love of GOD, kinetic barriers don't affect anything without mass!

Here's the exact, word for word quote from the ME Codex:

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.


They use a negative mass field to repel objects with positive mass. Note where it says kinetic barriers DO NOT PROTECT against temperatures or radiation, the primary damaging effects of Covenant weaponry!


THANK YOU!

Why do Halo defenders know more about Mass Effect then Mass Effect defenders?


Because we actually do our research instead of blindly saying "Kinetic barrier beats all"

  • 04.28.2011 7:41 PM PDT

this is bull crap

I dont even know anything from mass effect but I saw this and was like hell naw

  • 04.28.2011 7:44 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: EnragedAUSTIN11
this is bull crap

I dont even know anything from mass effect but I saw this and was like hell naw


lolMassEffecthasnooriginality.

  • 04.28.2011 7:45 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Omanisat
For the love of GOD, kinetic barriers don't affect anything without mass!

Here's the exact, word for word quote from the ME Codex:

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.


They use a negative mass field to repel objects with positive mass. Note where it says kinetic barriers DO NOT PROTECT against temperatures or radiation, the primary damaging effects of Covenant weaponry!


THANK YOU!

Why do Halo defenders know more about Mass Effect then Mass Effect defenders?


Because we actually do our research instead of blindly saying "Kinetic barrier beats all"


Clearly.

Like I understand the Ancients were more advanced then the Forerunners technologically (time travel) but in a straight up fight, to many unknowns. So for the sake of this debate.

UNSC=Reapers<Covenant<Forerunners<Ancients<<&l t;<(lolhax)Xeelee=Precursors

^^^This is also true. Almost every facet about Mass Effect can be traced back to a fairly recent concept or story device (Gears of War combat, Halo trilogy's story etc.), except for the driving aspect of the trilogy: choices affecting sequels.

[Edited on 04.28.2011 7:50 PM PDT]

  • 04.28.2011 7:48 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: spurkis
Maybe, maybe not. As far as I know we don't know much about their armor except it's of the same material as the insanely tough relays, which makes me highly doubt that it's on the same level as the Covenant's armor.

Not really into Stargate.

Btw, Haestrom's sun was being manipulated by an external power, which most likely wasn't Geth. It could be something else, but the Reapers are for the moment the most suspectible. And if they can screw with stars like that, then they can be considered toe to toe with the Forerunners in that matter. Not sure if this star manipulation is linked with shielding or weapon technology, or something else.


I don't know why you think the reapers can fight the Forerunners.Their shields can't even stop energy weapons,this puts them at a high disadvantage.

Then the Forerunner tech is also better then the Reapers:
-Massive Industrial capacity
-Low end starship weapons are in teraton(their weapons did better then the POA's reactor detonation)
-Ground forces can sweep continents
-They have explored other realities
-They can build stars and planets
...
..


When was a Reaper destroyed by an energy weapon that passed through its shields?

What do we know about the Reapers' industrial capabilities except for how they are able to construct gigantic space stations that defy the gravitational forces of a black hole, and like the Forerunners, build enormous artificial worlds with fictional gravity and friendly atmospheres? I'm not even gonna mention the Mass Relays.

Physics isn't my field, but standard Reaper weaponry are guns that beam streams of molten metal at like 1/5 lightspeed. The Collectors, which can be described as the "low end" of the Reapers, use some sort of energy beam that cuts clean through every ship in the ME universe.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Halo vs. Mass Effect thread, but the Reapers could basically just indoctrinate the Forerunners and turn them into their own ground forces. In addition to that they have tons of agents and minions, like corrupt Turians, Geth, Collectors etc.

I haven't read Cryptum, so that "reality" stuff sounds a little too Harry Potter for me right now. What use would that be in an open war anyway? Also, the Reapers' indoctrination skills is most likely the answer to this alternate universe-stuff, seeing how it affects sub-consciousness.

The Collector Base is the closest thing to a planet they have, and it defies gravity, but I don't see why that is relevant anyway. Why would the Reapers need planets? Stars? They can pre-maturely destroy stars, that's for sure, but build? For what use?

...
...






Their shields can only defend themselfs against kinetic attacks(correct me if i'm wrong)
If it's true then Forerunners energy weapons will cut through hordes of Reapers with ease.

Which artificial worlds?Exemples?
Forerunners can built a single Halo ring in a few months,a ring has a diameter of 30000 km.That already proves how quickly they can construct something massive like that.With this massive industrial capacity,they can quickly built entire fleets and literally drown the reapers with sheer numbers alone.Not even counting that a single Forerunners ship would beat a Reaper.

More exemples:
-They can provide energy for artificial starts for +100000 years
-Massive Micro dyson sphere with the size of 2AU or 300million km
-Artifical planets like Onyx,they can fuse an asteroid field into a single protoplanet
.....

Because this beam is effective against ME fforces doesn't means it's effective against Forerunners.How powerful are those beams?Megatons?If so then Forerunners shields can easily survive through that.

How will they indoctrinate Forerunners if reapers will be destroyed the moment they appear within the ship Captains view.

Harry Potter like?Forerunner is more like similar to Culture tech.

Planets are needed for resources,accommodating your population,...Building planets proves how technically advanced the Forerunners are and shows how big their industrial capcity is,this gives them automatically the advantage of lots of resources,which are needed for you army and Navy.

BTW Forerunners can shuffle their planets around to protect them,their planets also have planetary shields which i doubt the Reapers will be able to penetrate.

I have a questiondo Reapers have worlds are they just like nomads slaughtering species and sleeping in outer space?



Alright, no one knows how powerful the weapons on a reaper are, however, they appear to be in the gigatonnes range.

  • 04.28.2011 8:21 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

While defiantly no the most powerful, the reapers are probably the most realistic "power race" in Sci-Fi.

  • 04.28.2011 8:23 PM PDT

The primary factor in determining the strength of a mass accelerator round is the length of the magnetic elements being used to fire the round.

A Human Everest class dreadnought's gun is about 1km long an can accelerate a projectile fast enough to generate 38 kilotons of force.

Sovereign, the only Reaper seen in combat, is about 2km long, and so therefore should be able to develop 72 kilotons of force. But let's assume the molten metal rounds and advanced Reaper technology made it 8 times as powerful as an Everest class, that's still only around 576 kilotons.

As a comparison, the UNSC's super MAC can accelerate a projectile fast enough to generate 51.6 gigatons of force!

  • 04.28.2011 8:34 PM PDT
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bullllll
strongest would be stargate ancients. the by far the strongest ancient alien race out there. forerunners would be hard to tell because you are not given many examples of them other then the halo rings and the sentinels.

and why mass effect? there aren't even shields in mass effect. they have kinetic barriers?
also in stargate they have bombs that can wipe out planets and priests that can spread plagues in the blink of an eye.

  • 04.28.2011 9:06 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: duskypolorbear
bullllll
strongest would be stargate ancients. the by far the strongest ancient alien race out there. forerunners would be hard to tell because you are not given many examples of them other then the halo rings and the sentinels.

and why mass effect? there aren't even shields in mass effect. they have kinetic barriers?
also in stargate they have bombs that can wipe out planets and priests that can spread plagues in the blink of an eye.


I believe it was already stated that Ancients would win, but regarding the last part, Forerunners can destroy continents with just ground troopers and can make, destroy and move stars and planets.

  • 04.28.2011 9:09 PM PDT

OK, enough about Reapers, what about the ones I forgot to add whn I created the poll: The Xel'Naga from Starcraft, and the Ceph from Crysis?

  • 04.28.2011 9:12 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Omanisat
OK, enough about Reapers, what about the ones I forgot to add whn I created the poll: The Xel'Naga from Starcraft, and the Ceph from Crysis?

Sorry to be an ass but its spelled Xel'nagga.

Anyways, I think the Xel'Nagga are about equal to the Forerunners, while no one knows enough about the Ceph to be sure, though they are intergalactic, as in the first game they send a distress signal to the M33 Galaxy (We live in the M31 galaxy I believe).

  • 04.28.2011 9:45 PM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh


You are ignoring blatantly obvious evidence and logic by throwing out implausibilities and base assumptions. Loopholes, basically, that you come up with that make the Reapers win; aka: fanboyism. I have seen no--repeat NO --evidence suggesting the Reapers are any stronger then the Covenant. Have you heard of an energy lance? The beam of pure light that--as you should realize--fires at lightspeed, fully capable of obliterating 5 fully armed and armored UNSC ships 100,000 kilometers away with one shot. All Covenant ships with an Energy Projector can do this.

Or howabout the Covenant Assault Carrier? A behemoth which has been known to vaporize targets as large as a 3 kilometer asteroid with a single shot. The energy required to do this is several petatons.

EG: one trillion kilotons per petaton. And if I'm not mistaken, a sub kiloton bomb killed Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.

Sorry to point this out, by size does matter, in Halo at least; larger ship=bigger reactors=more power=bigger guns.

Its absolute bull to try and say that you don't care how powerful Forerunner weaponry is in a vs. match and then say Reapers>Forerunners whilst the whole while completely ignoring the evidence brought to bear. Need I remind you of the scene in Cryptum where a planet is literally pulled apart by Forerunner turrets and starfighters?

Or of the fact they could shatter a Halo Ring in a couple of shots, something 100,000 years of constant kilo/mega/gigatonnage asteroid impacts couldn't even hope to do?

Or of the trillion+ ships in a single fleet?

Trans-universal travel?

And don't get me started on the Ancients; time travel trumps any technology the Reapers have.

You base your entire defense over the concept of Reaper indoctrination, yet you fail to see its one major and obvious flaw: it takes a long time. Did you not pay any attention to the death of Sovereign in ME1? If their indoctrination powers were so godly, that they could be as whimsically used as you suggest, then the Citadel should have fallen. Yet Sovereign died just as well.

You do not consider that a Forerunner Fortess would eat a Reaper alive before it could even start to contemplate indoctrinating the crew. These are the ships and people that use supernovae and trans-universal entanglement traps (Onyx sentinels) as weapons remember.

It seems I--and the other people here--understand the three races better then you do. I don't even watch Stargate and I know they're superior.


Wrong. All I see is people rambling about how godlike the Forerunners are because the can travel between universes, build planets and stuff like that, while I'm trying to defend my position with facts from the Mass Effect games. I honestly can't see why what I'm doing is any more fanboy than what you are. You spam random numbers and are even starting to get hostile. Good job.

What good is an energy lance when the Reapers use FTL travel to just arrive right up in their faces? Trying to fire a glassing beam would only result in hitting an allied ship.

Ah, the behemoth which was decimated by a group of starfighters and a clever bomb? If all the Assault Carriers/Supercarriers have such foolish captains, then they are doomed.

You say you know so much about the ME-universe, but if you didn't see the ending cutscene in ME1 I don't understand why you're even saying this. Sovereign was "clinically dead"
when the Saren avatar died, and was then teared apart by a strike of who knows how many MAC shots, bombs, etc. If you think the Normandy bomb singlehandedly destroyed Sovereign then you are wrong.

And Reapers have just as powerful weapons, except they're not made up of light.

We have no idea how many Reapers there are.

What use is trans-universal travel, exactly?

For the third time, I haven't seen Stargate so I essentially don't give a damn about the Ancients right now.

You fail to see how fast indoctrination happens. Dr. Kenson, Saren, Collector General, numerous Reaper Artifact archeologists, the Cerberus team on the Reaper, etc. I quote the Illusive Man from ME2: "Contact was lost shortly after they set up". Sovereign and Saren overwhelmed everything and everyone. They essentially fell the Citadel, but Shepard stopped them in the very last seconds.

I rest my case about the indoctrinating crew thing you mention here.

It seems that you are a very angry little man that needs to let som steam out and stop preaching to the Forerunners.

  • 04.28.2011 10:53 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

I love this thread. Watching you guys argue about this and get 90% of your facts wrong, while making up the rest.

  • 04.28.2011 11:10 PM PDT

I can't speak for the Cryptum gang that's against me, but everything I say is based on observations in the games and other media. Some are logical assumptions, like when I estimated that atleast 739 new Reapers have been constructed in the past 37 million years.

Why don't you join in and project your divine beam of knowledge and correctness, That Elitist?

  • 04.29.2011 3:43 AM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

"Did i ever tell you the Definition of Insanity?"

ceph. Sheer dominance :o

  • 04.29.2011 4:16 AM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.


Posted by: teslaterrorPrime

Posted by: wildnuke
Timelords?


dont get started on then for the love of Gman.
Stargate ancients are technically more powerful, they have generators that last longer than a nuclear reactor, they can travel time, get across a galaxy within a few minutes, and have pistols that can blow away entire buildings


*laughs for a minute* Are you joking. Timelords can power from the origin of the universe,destroy entire unviverses, have far better time travel, ships that have weapons that end time/ remove objects from time and space..... I'm not even getting started.
*laughs again*

[Edited on 04.29.2011 4:49 AM PDT]

  • 04.29.2011 4:48 AM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: ROBERTO jh


You are ignoring blatantly obvious evidence and logic by throwing out implausibilities and base assumptions. Loopholes, basically, that you come up with that make the Reapers win; aka: fanboyism. I have seen no--repeat NO --evidence suggesting the Reapers are any stronger then the Covenant. Have you heard of an energy lance? The beam of pure light that--as you should realize--fires at lightspeed, fully capable of obliterating 5 fully armed and armored UNSC ships 100,000 kilometers away with one shot. All Covenant ships with an Energy Projector can do this.

Or howabout the Covenant Assault Carrier? A behemoth which has been known to vaporize targets as large as a 3 kilometer asteroid with a single shot. The energy required to do this is several petatons.

EG: one trillion kilotons per petaton. And if I'm not mistaken, a sub kiloton bomb killed Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.

Sorry to point this out, by size does matter, in Halo at least; larger ship=bigger reactors=more power=bigger guns.

Its absolute bull to try and say that you don't care how powerful Forerunner weaponry is in a vs. match and then say Reapers>Forerunners whilst the whole while completely ignoring the evidence brought to bear. Need I remind you of the scene in Cryptum where a planet is literally pulled apart by Forerunner turrets and starfighters?

Or of the fact they could shatter a Halo Ring in a couple of shots, something 100,000 years of constant kilo/mega/gigatonnage asteroid impacts couldn't even hope to do?

Or of the trillion+ ships in a single fleet?

Trans-universal travel?

And don't get me started on the Ancients; time travel trumps any technology the Reapers have.

You base your entire defense over the concept of Reaper indoctrination, yet you fail to see its one major and obvious flaw: it takes a long time. Did you not pay any attention to the death of Sovereign in ME1? If their indoctrination powers were so godly, that they could be as whimsically used as you suggest, then the Citadel should have fallen. Yet Sovereign died just as well.

You do not consider that a Forerunner Fortess would eat a Reaper alive before it could even start to contemplate indoctrinating the crew. These are the ships and people that use supernovae and trans-universal entanglement traps (Onyx sentinels) as weapons remember.

It seems I--and the other people here--understand the three races better then you do. I don't even watch Stargate and I know they're superior.


Wrong. All I see is people rambling about how godlike the Forerunners are because the can travel between universes, build planets and stuff like that, while I'm trying to defend my position with facts from the Mass Effect games. I honestly can't see why what I'm doing is any more fanboy than what you are. You spam random numbers and are even starting to get hostile. Good job.

What good is an energy lance when the Reapers use FTL travel to just arrive right up in their faces? Trying to fire a glassing beam would only result in hitting an allied ship.

Ah, the behemoth which was decimated by a group of starfighters and a clever bomb? If all the Assault Carriers/Supercarriers have such foolish captains, then they are doomed.

You say you know so much about the ME-universe, but if you didn't see the ending cutscene in ME1 I don't understand why you're even saying this. Sovereign was "clinically dead"
when the Saren avatar died, and was then teared apart by a strike of who knows how many MAC shots, bombs, etc. If you think the Normandy bomb singlehandedly destroyed Sovereign then you are wrong.

And Reapers have just as powerful weapons, except they're not made up of light.

We have no idea how many Reapers there are.

What use is trans-universal travel, exactly?

For the third time, I haven't seen Stargate so I essentially don't give a damn about the Ancients right now.

You fail to see how fast indoctrination happens. Dr. Kenson, Saren, Collector General, numerous Reaper Artifact archeologists, the Cerberus team on the Reaper, etc. I quote the Illusive Man from ME2: "Contact was lost shortly after they set up". Sovereign and Saren overwhelmed everything and everyone. They essentially fell the Citadel, but Shepard stopped them in the very last seconds.

I rest my case about the indoctrinating crew thing you mention here.

It seems that you are a very angry little man that needs to let som steam out and stop preaching to the Forerunners.


Prove it. Seriously, prove to me Reaper weapons are more powerful then the Forerunners. I seriously want you to prove it. Because the only weapon we've ever seen a Reaper use in combat was a mass driver, a weapon that fires a slug so inconsequential to Foreunner adamantium--based on evidence from Cryptum--it barely matters.

If I was preaching to the Forerunners, I'd say they win this fight. They don't. The Ancients do, and I don't even watch Stargate. I'm not spamming numbers, I'm using baseeline facts and evidence from the books and the games.

The only spam I see is you ignoring the technological wonder of the Forerunners/Ancients and saying "Reapers are more powerful because I say so" whilst not proving anything. Saying "I don't care what Cryptum evidence you bring, Reapers>Foretunners." Just because you've never read a book doesn't mean it exists; are you that conceited to think that?

The ME Codex/wiki states quite clearly "indoctrination can take days or weeks." So how that helps in combat I have no idea.

I bet you too also think they can defeat the Xeelee, huh?

  • 04.29.2011 5:39 AM PDT
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TOCO149

I vote Precursors.

  • 04.29.2011 6:45 AM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh



Prove it. Seriously, prove to me Reaper weapons are more powerful then the Forerunners. I seriously want you to prove it. Because the only weapon we've ever seen a Reaper use in combat was a mass driver, a weapon that fires a slug so inconsequential to Foreunner adamantium--based on evidence from Cryptum--it barely matters.

If I was preaching to the Forerunners, I'd say they win this fight. They don't. The Ancients do, and I don't even watch Stargate. I'm not spamming numbers, I'm using baseeline facts and evidence from the books and the games.

The only spam I see is you ignoring the technological wonder of the Forerunners/Ancients and saying "Reapers are more powerful because I say so" whilst not proving anything. Saying "I don't care what Cryptum evidence you bring, Reapers>Foretunners." Just because you've never read a book doesn't mean it exists; are you that conceited to think that?

The ME Codex/wiki states quite clearly "indoctrination can take days or weeks." So how that helps in combat I have no idea.

I bet you too also think they can defeat the Xeelee, huh?


I can't prove it, and neither can you. We have no idea of how strong the Reaper material is, except for the fact that it can survive being struck by a supernova. Or being in the outskirts of one, if you want to put it that way. By mass accelerator, are you referring to the molten metal beams? If so, how exactly do you know the metal(s) in the beam are inconsequencical to adamantium? They also have technology to build mass accelerators that fire slugs strong enough to crack the crust of a planet.

But what I can do, is to write down some glamorizing bullcrap that makes the Forerunners look like limbless chimps.

Hundreds of thousands of Reapers in all imaginable sizes and shapes sailing through the void towards the Forerunner fleets. They already have people on the inside, indoctrinated and ready to shut down the Forerunner shield systems. When the Reapers arrive, their pinpoint-FTL travel places them inside and between the fleets. They are dwarfed by some of the 100km Forerunner behemoths, but at no good (you saw how well John, Kelly and Fred did it when they raced through a Covenant fleet on those Booster Frames).

Starfighters and sentinels are spewed out from the ships, while Oculi and Collectors are assuming control of the disabled Forerunner vessels. The automaticly steered starfighters and Sentinels can't even react before they are obliterated by the overwhelming fire from the Reapers, who move infinitely too fast for the Forerunner photon beams to hit properly without destroying their own vessels.

And when did I say the Reapers are more powerful because I say so? Please enlighten me on that part.
"Just because you've never read a book doesn't mean it exists" < what? If you're trying to say what I think you're trying to say, I've read plenty of books, just not the latest Halo book. So you spare yourself from that elitistic bullcrap, Mr.

If you consider days and weeks a long time for indoctrination then I think you have misunderstood my point about it. The Forerunners obviously don't know of the Reapers' existence, so this indoctrination would start very subtle. Placing an artifact on a moon or something, and when the Forerunners start researching it the indoctrination begins. Before ANY direct confrontation.

Like with the Ancients, I haven't read up much on the Xeelee.

Just to make some things clear, I'm not a Mass Effect fanboy or anything. I'm a huge fan of both ME and Halo. I actually defended Halo in a large Halo vs. Star Wars debate. I don't know who started to insult in this thread, but I'd like to keep it civilized.

  • 04.29.2011 7:28 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: hotshot revan II



Their shields can only defend themselfs against kinetic attacks(correct me if i'm wrong)
If it's true then Forerunners energy weapons will cut through hordes of Reapers with ease.

Which artificial worlds?Exemples?
Forerunners can built a single Halo ring in a few months,a ring has a diameter of 30000 km.That already proves how quickly they can construct something massive like that.With this massive industrial capacity,they can quickly built entire fleets and literally drown the reapers with sheer numbers alone.Not even counting that a single Forerunners ship would beat a Reaper.

More exemples:
-They can provide energy for artificial starts for +100000 years
-Massive Micro dyson sphere with the size of 2AU or 300million km
-Artifical planets like Onyx,they can fuse an asteroid field into a single protoplanet
.....

Because this beam is effective against ME fforces doesn't means it's effective against Forerunners.How powerful are those beams?Megatons?If so then Forerunners shields can easily survive through that.

How will they indoctrinate Forerunners if reapers will be destroyed the moment they appear within the ship Captains view.

Harry Potter like?Forerunner is more like similar to Culture tech.

Planets are needed for resources,accommodating your population,...Building planets proves how technically advanced the Forerunners are and shows how big their industrial capcity is,this gives them automatically the advantage of lots of resources,which are needed for you army and Navy.

BTW Forerunners can shuffle their planets around to protect them,their planets also have planetary shields which i doubt the Reapers will be able to penetrate.

I have a questiondo Reapers have worlds are they just like nomads slaughtering species and sleeping in outer space?




It is never stated what kinds of shielding the Reapers have, but it is very strong nonetheless. By the way, the kinetic barriers in ME do protect against energy weapons. The Collector Beam, for instance.

The Citadel is of course the prime example of their artificial worlds. The Collector Base too, but it isn't exactly pretty to look at.

I hate such "arguments". I can simply retort to that by saying "You don't know how powerful Forerunner weapons are in Mass Effect omg!", but I'm not going to because it is irrelevant. But look at it this way: Johnson got hit by a monitor beam with death to follow, and John was harmed. If I remember correctly, The Arbiter was blown into the room behind him. The Reaper Oculus in ME2 is a similar floating orb with a red eye that projects an energy beam. While Shepard can survive brief hits from this beam because of gameplay issues, these two floating orbs can be a sort of link between Halo and ME. Two equally powerful chunks of metal and A.I. So Forerunner energy weaponry doesn't have to be so goddamn incredibly powerful as all of you say it is. The only difference is that the monitors are cutting edge Forerunner technology with the best of everything because they are tasked with seeing over their legacy, while the Oculus orbs are simple drones stationed by the gateway to the Collector Base.

They would indroctrinate them by placing a Reaper device on an asteroid or something, that the Forerunners would investigate and furthermore, examinate in a research facility. Then the artifact would turn them into servants of the Reapers, the captain too.

You are forgetting that the Reapers don't need resources in the same way as we/the Forerunners do. They get all the materials they require during each Milky Way visit. Then they upgrade their specs, leave a vanguard Reaper behind in the galaxy and go into hibernation in dark space for the next 50.000 years or so.

As far as we know the Reapers have no planets, since they live beyond the galaxy, past any star system. They are like a big bunch of interstellar janitors and garbage men gone rogue on organic life.


-I thought it was said Reapers had those barriers,oh well i don't know much about ME

-Citadel isn't an artifical world,it's more like something like the Unyielding Hierophant.
Here are some Forerunner artifical worlds:
http://www.halopedian.com/Astroengineering

-Yield of weapons are important in scfi debates,an exemple we need to know if UNSC weapons can even damage a warhammer ship.This is usually done with calculations and estimations of the weapons yield.
Forerunner Navy weapons are in teraton range,because it took a single Forerunner ship to destroy a ring.If you look at the autumn detonation,you see a fireball around 1000 km (assuming all rings are 30000 km).It takes teraton weapons to do that.
Here are some quotes:

Now the Forerunner navy weapon i stronger then the autumns detonation,why?Because the autumn caused the ring spinnig so hard it broke it'self.A Forerunner ship destroyed a ring with Brutal power alone.

The monitor weapons?So you are gonna say Forerunner starship weapons are as strong as a monitors weapon?

I doubt the Forerunners will examine it,the moment a reapers appears in system it will be seen on the radar and will be intercepted the moment it comes.

-I see,but they get their resources by conquering other species.That's something i can't see happen if the will have to deal with the 4runners.Unless they will use empty planets for themselfs.

BTW i'll get my quotes later this day,i haven't my books with me now so i'll search for quotes through the internet.

  • 04.29.2011 8:12 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

This thread became a forerunner and ancients vs reaper thread,lol

  • 04.29.2011 8:14 AM PDT

Posted by: hotshot revan II



-I thought it was said Reapers had those barriers,oh well i don't know much about ME

-Citadel isn't an artifical world,it's more like something like the Unyielding Hierophant.
Here are some Forerunner artifical worlds:
http://www.halopedian.com/Astroengineering

-Yield of weapons are important in scfi debates,an exemple we need to know if UNSC weapons can even damage a warhammer ship.This is usually done with calculations and estimations of the weapons yield.
Forerunner Navy weapons are in teraton range,because it took a single Forerunner ship to destroy a ring.If you look at the autumn detonation,you see a fireball around 1000 km (assuming all rings are 30000 km).It takes teraton weapons to do that.
Here are some quotes:

Now the Forerunner navy weapon i stronger then the autumns detonation,why?Because the autumn caused the ring spinnig so hard it broke it'self.A Forerunner ship destroyed a ring with Brutal power alone.

The monitor weapons?So you are gonna say Forerunner starship weapons are as strong as a monitors weapon?

I doubt the Forerunners will examine it,the moment a reapers appears in system it will be seen on the radar and will be intercepted the moment it comes.

-I see,but they get their resources by conquering other species.That's something i can't see happen if the will have to deal with the 4runners.Unless they will use empty planets for themselfs.

BTW i'll get my quotes later this day,i haven't my books with me now so i'll search for quotes through the internet.


The Citadel is technically a space station, yes, but no less of an artificial world than a Halo, except from the fact that the Halo has mountains copied and pasted from that resource moon in The Ark. The Citadel has flora, fauna, an atmosphere, artificial daylight and gravity.

What I meant with the monitor weapons is that they are very similar to a very similar kind of unit in the Reaper army. The units are approximiately at the same sizes, are extremely powerful at most ranges, brief exposure to their energy weapons = death and so on. This indicates a possibility that the factions have weapons at approximately the same power level.

They don't need to enter a Forerunner system. They can even just slaughter one of their own and send it some pieces of it, like a claw or a tentacle, attach a Reaper artifact on it and send it sailing into the galaxy, waiting to be picked up and examined. The traveling itself may take an extremely long time for the artifact, but Sovereign is an A.I. (not directly affected by emotions like boredom or impatience for example) and according to a Prothean A.I., he worked in the shadows and waited for centuries to pave a way for his kind before the events of Mass Effect 1.

Let's just assume this is an all out war between the two races rather than a regular organic life genocide where they harvest technology and resources.

[Edited on 04.29.2011 8:43 AM PDT]

  • 04.29.2011 8:41 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Halo biggest fan
Well the Forerunners are good, but not that good. In my eyes, the Reapers are the most powerful Alien race.


The Reapers are technologically inferior to the Covenant; the Forerunners would lawl their arrogant asses off to them (yes, I know almost all there is to know about the Reapers).


No. Just no. The Covenant are not even near the Reapers. Firstly, size isn't everything, believe it or not. This is illustrated throughout the whole Halo saga! 2:


Size may not be anything but that is why the reapers lose.

The reapers themselves are low in number maybe only 200 of them while the covenant might have a total of 1,000 ships or so.

That being said in a full out battle with 200 reapers vs 1,000 covenant ships Battlecrusier class and up

The reapers would flat out lose.
the UNcs has at least 2000 shisps and the covenant even more acording to the datapads

  • 04.29.2011 9:15 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: hotshot revan II



-I thought it was said Reapers had those barriers,oh well i don't know much about ME

-Citadel isn't an artifical world,it's more like something like the Unyielding Hierophant.
Here are some Forerunner artifical worlds:
http://www.halopedian.com/Astroengineering

-Yield of weapons are important in scfi debates,an exemple we need to know if UNSC weapons can even damage a warhammer ship.This is usually done with calculations and estimations of the weapons yield.
Forerunner Navy weapons are in teraton range,because it took a single Forerunner ship to destroy a ring.If you look at the autumn detonation,you see a fireball around 1000 km (assuming all rings are 30000 km).It takes teraton weapons to do that.
Here are some quotes:

Now the Forerunner navy weapon i stronger then the autumns detonation,why?Because the autumn caused the ring spinnig so hard it broke it'self.A Forerunner ship destroyed a ring with Brutal power alone.

The monitor weapons?So you are gonna say Forerunner starship weapons are as strong as a monitors weapon?

I doubt the Forerunners will examine it,the moment a reapers appears in system it will be seen on the radar and will be intercepted the moment it comes.

-I see,but they get their resources by conquering other species.That's something i can't see happen if the will have to deal with the 4runners.Unless they will use empty planets for themselfs.

BTW i'll get my quotes later this day,i haven't my books with me now so i'll search for quotes through the internet.


The Citadel is technically a space station, yes, but no less of an artificial world than a Halo, except from the fact that the Halo has mountains copied and pasted from that resource moon in The Ark. The Citadel has flora, fauna, an atmosphere, artificial daylight and gravity.

What I meant with the monitor weapons is that they are very similar to a very similar kind of unit in the Reaper army. The units are approximiately at the same sizes, are extremely powerful at most ranges, brief exposure to their energy weapons = death and so on. This indicates a possibility that the factions have weapons at approximately the same power level.

They don't need to enter a Forerunner system. They can even just slaughter one of their own and send it some pieces of it, like a claw or a tentacle, attach a Reaper artifact on it and send it sailing into the galaxy, waiting to be picked up and examined. The traveling itself may take an extremely long time for the artifact, but Sovereign is an A.I. (not directly affected by emotions like boredom or impatience for example) and according to a Prothean A.I., he worked in the shadows and waited for centuries to pave a way for his kind before the events of Mass Effect 1.

Let's just assume this is an all out war between the two races rather than a regular organic life genocide where they harvest technology and resources.


1)Citadel isn't an artifial planet,more like a station.An artifcial planet is a planet not created by nature .
Here is the construction of an artificial planet:

http://www.halopedian.com/images/9/9c/Artificial_Planets.jpg

A Halo ring is larger then a planet(with Cryptums new size).A ring has flora,atmosphere too.

The Forerunners were able to built an enite massive micro dyson sphere inside slipspace.It has it's own artifial sun and it has a diameter of 300 million km.

2)Your entire point about it aris made off assumptions.It's like saying that the UNSC navy weapons might rival the Forerunners because a splazer is stronger then Sparks weapon.

3)Well good luck with that.Cause it will take thousands of years to arrive in Forerunner space.Before it even happens the reapers will already be extint.Even if the Forerunner find it,then their own AI's will beat the Sovereigns AI.
How powerful are Reaper AI's anyway?

...
...

Well why doesn't b.net post the quote i try to post,it says something about extended characters are not allowed
*explosive sigh*

  • 04.29.2011 9:28 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: ROBERTO jh


You are ignoring blatantly obvious evidence and logic by throwing out implausibilities and base assumptions. Loopholes, basically, that you come up with that make the Reapers win; aka: fanboyism. I have seen no--repeat NO --evidence suggesting the Reapers are any stronger then the Covenant. Have you heard of an energy lance? The beam of pure light that--as you should realize--fires at lightspeed, fully capable of obliterating 5 fully armed and armored UNSC ships 100,000 kilometers away with one shot. All Covenant ships with an Energy Projector can do this.

Or howabout the Covenant Assault Carrier? A behemoth which has been known to vaporize targets as large as a 3 kilometer asteroid with a single shot. The energy required to do this is several petatons.

EG: one trillion kilotons per petaton. And if I'm not mistaken, a sub kiloton bomb killed Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.

Sorry to point this out, by size does matter, in Halo at least; larger ship=bigger reactors=more power=bigger guns.

Its absolute bull to try and say that you don't care how powerful Forerunner weaponry is in a vs. match and then say Reapers>Forerunners whilst the whole while completely ignoring the evidence brought to bear. Need I remind you of the scene in Cryptum where a planet is literally pulled apart by Forerunner turrets and starfighters?

Or of the fact they could shatter a Halo Ring in a couple of shots, something 100,000 years of constant kilo/mega/gigatonnage asteroid impacts couldn't even hope to do?

Or of the trillion+ ships in a single fleet?

Trans-universal travel?

And don't get me started on the Ancients; time travel trumps any technology the Reapers have.

You base your entire defense over the concept of Reaper indoctrination, yet you fail to see its one major and obvious flaw: it takes a long time. Did you not pay any attention to the death of Sovereign in ME1? If their indoctrination powers were so godly, that they could be as whimsically used as you suggest, then the Citadel should have fallen. Yet Sovereign died just as well.

You do not consider that a Forerunner Fortess would eat a Reaper alive before it could even start to contemplate indoctrinating the crew. These are the ships and people that use supernovae and trans-universal entanglement traps (Onyx sentinels) as weapons remember.

It seems I--and the other people here--understand the three races better then you do. I don't even watch Stargate and I know they're superior.


Wrong. All I see is people rambling about how godlike the Forerunners are because the can travel between universes, build planets and stuff like that, while I'm trying to defend my position with facts from the Mass Effect games. I honestly can't see why what I'm doing is any more fanboy than what you are. You spam random numbers and are even starting to get hostile. Good job.

What good is an energy lance when the Reapers use FTL travel to just arrive right up in their faces? Trying to fire a glassing beam would only result in hitting an allied ship.

Ah, the behemoth which was decimated by a group of starfighters and a clever bomb? If all the Assault Carriers/Supercarriers have such foolish captains, then they are doomed.

You say you know so much about the ME-universe, but if you didn't see the ending cutscene in ME1 I don't understand why you're even saying this. Sovereign was "clinically dead"
when the Saren avatar died, and was then teared apart by a strike of who knows how many MAC shots, bombs, etc. If you think the Normandy bomb singlehandedly destroyed Sovereign then you are wrong.

And Reapers have just as powerful weapons, except they're not made up of light.

We have no idea how many Reapers there are.

What use is trans-universal travel, exactly?

For the third time, I haven't seen Stargate so I essentially don't give a damn about the Ancients right now.

You fail to see how fast indoctrination happens. Dr. Kenson, Saren, Collector General, numerous Reaper Artifact archeologists, the Cerberus team on the Reaper, etc. I quote the Illusive Man from ME2: "Contact was lost shortly after they set up". Sovereign and Saren overwhelmed everything and everyone. They essentially fell the Citadel, but Shepard stopped them in the very last seconds.

I rest my case about the indoctrinating crew thing you mention here.

It seems that you are a very angry little man that needs to let som steam out and stop preaching to the Forerunners.
hypocrite alert

  • 04.29.2011 9:29 AM PDT