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Subject: Is Halsey a monster?

Posted by: zepedrodel
The insurrectionists if let free would led to galactic scale civil war.
So yes, SPARTANS II were needed even without the Covenant.


Agreed. It would be far more cost effective for a few super soldiers to bring order to the galaxy than have a civil war.

  • 04.30.2011 11:50 AM PDT

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says Play safe

She's what you would call a 'necessary evil'

  • 04.30.2011 12:11 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
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Thank God she did, but I can't help but cringe at the methods.

If only humanity knew that contact with the Covenant would effectively end the insurrection.

[Edited on 04.30.2011 12:59 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2011 12:43 PM PDT


Posted by: cortana 5
Thank God she did, but I can't help but cringe at the methods.

If only humanity knew that contact with the Covenant would effectively ended the insurrection.


Only, it didn't. The rebels continued to fight through the war.

  • 04.30.2011 12:56 PM PDT


Posted by: TheProfessor
While I do believe that crushing the Insurrectionists was a good idea, I've begun to believe that ONI is a very corrupt organization that needs to be dealt with. Constant cover ups, questionable operations, ect. There are many things they do that by today's standards would be considered scandalous.



You have no idea how much I agree with this. ONI are a primarily a collection corruption and intrigue as well as a wretched hive of scum and villainy (cookies if you get the reference). I have not yet met a high ranking ONI operative that I liked.

  • 04.30.2011 12:56 PM PDT

I think the methods used to "breed" the SPARTAN-IIs was monstrous Covenant or no, but it sure as hell made a cool looking bunch of BAMF supersoldiers! :D

  • 04.30.2011 1:00 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
a wretched hive of scum and villainy


Star Wars Ep IV A New Hope. Ben (Obi-wan) Kenobi says this in reference to Mos Eisley.

I used to watch it every day...

  • 04.30.2011 1:02 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Im SteelAssassn

Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.

Now after saying that, I do agree with her that it was necessary.

  • 04.30.2011 1:13 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheProfessor
While I do believe that crushing the Insurrectionists was a good idea, I've begun to believe that ONI is a very corrupt organization that needs to be dealt with. Constant cover ups, questionable operations, ect. There are many things they do that by today's standards would be considered scandalous.



You have no idea how much I agree with this. ONI are a primarily a collection corruption and intrigue as well as a wretched hive of scum and villainy (cookies if you get the reference). I have not yet met a high ranking ONI operative that I liked.


Then again, they are the intelligence section of UNSC. They know things nobody else does. I mean, I'm not saying there is no corruption in there, but saying it's all corrupt might be a little to far.

Though, about the 'scandalous' thing, many things today which are looked over would be massive "OMG!" if we go back a bit and do them then.



[Edited on 04.30.2011 1:20 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2011 1:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Im SteelAssassn

Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.

Now after saying that, I do agree with her that it was necessary.


I was just showing her reasoning behind her choice. A minimum of billions dead? Worst case scenario, endless war? I think the threat was greater than most here accept.

[Edited on 04.30.2011 4:14 PM PDT]

  • 04.30.2011 4:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Im SteelAssassn

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Im SteelAssassn

Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.

Now after saying that, I do agree with her that it was necessary.


I was just showing her reasoning behind her choice. A minimum of billions dead? Worst case scenario, endless war? I think the threat was greater than most here accept.


Major portion was you had the active and known cells willing to kill civilians, whether any UNSC personnel were wounded or killed was a bonus. They have nukes and slipspace capable transport, they could create planet-killing bombs and send them into the inner colonies, or even Earth.

  • 04.30.2011 5:10 PM PDT

My Screenshots / My Group / Remember to follow the rules or you will get trapped in a box.

Those innies could have taken over the entire galaxy without the spartans.

  • 04.30.2011 5:23 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Logic isn't always ethical.

Her actions were necessary and she regretted it.

  • 04.30.2011 5:43 PM PDT

A monster does not feel guilt.
/thread

  • 04.30.2011 6:29 PM PDT


Posted by: the n00b pwner
A monster does not feel guilt.
/thread


Heh, good point.

  • 04.30.2011 6:34 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: the n00b pwner
A monster does not feel guilt.
/thread


Heh, good point.


Indeed, a monster may acknowledge that what it does is not right or even evil, but they will not feel remorse or sorrow for what they have done.

  • 04.30.2011 6:53 PM PDT
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It does sound wrong, but supposedly Halsey and the UNSC needed them maintain order.

  • 04.30.2011 11:06 PM PDT
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all the actions, Had to happen, needed to. Monster? no, just someone with the balls to do what had to be done in a time of crisis!

  • 04.30.2011 11:13 PM PDT

what she did was bad but she till this day feels bad for what she did to the spartan and always feel sad when they die if u read the books she always wishes she didnt have to do it and feels she could give them the choice to not be spartans

  • 04.30.2011 11:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, interesting points Cookie...

Oh wait, I'm Cookie aren't I. Doh! Didn't realise you were talking to me.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
...but I'm curious why you think of A being that way.

From what I've gathered Harvest was the point of actual contact between the two, besides the two transport raids which happened a short time before Harvest.


I'm just flicking through Halsey's journal now, 18th January 2524 what I believe to be High Charity is spotted from Mars. A year before firstg contact.

Now I realise this is circumstantial, not 'hard' evidence, but I cannot see how something that big, of alien origin could get so close without a massive military action being taken.
I therefore suggest that not only did ONI cover up the covenant, but also that they had contact with them. That is before Truth and his posse got to power. Had they had power at this point, a first strike by the UNSC would have been a prudent course of action surely?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Though yeah, the nuking of the colony is really a bleh to bring in. I mean, we don't know why and if the UNSC nuked it, I'm fairly sure the rebel uprising was not peaceful protesting for more food.


I think we have to remember that the UNSC was fighting terrorists, not the peaceful movements. The lines between the two are often blurred, often to the advantage of the terrorists, as a way for them to justify horrendous actions.


To sum up, the SPARTAN IIs were a safety net for ONI should the covenant become hostile, and served the duel purpose of being a very effective stand-alone anti-terorist unit.

Anyway, this is all my opinion taken from evidence provided. Take from it what you will and feel free to tear it apart. :)

  • 05.01.2011 4:50 AM PDT


Posted by: carby21
Those innies could have taken over the entire galaxy without the spartans.


Thats a bit excessive, the ODSTs and other special forces could have defeated them in a full scale war, but it would have cost the lives of millions, if not more.

The SPARTANs were able to defeat them without resorting to a full scale war, therefore saving million of lives in the process, civilian and military alike.

This is the logic behind their creation.

  • 05.01.2011 4:53 AM PDT


Posted by: RotaryCookie

Posted by: carby21
Those innies could have taken over the entire galaxy without the spartans.


Thats a bit excessive, the ODSTs and other special forces could have defeated them in a full scale war, but it would have cost the lives of millions, if not more.

The SPARTANs were able to defeat them without resorting to a full scale war, therefore saving million of lives in the process, civilian and military alike.

This is the logic behind their creation.


Yes. If a full scale war came about, I'm pretty sure the UNSC would probably win. Though there would definitely be very heavy losses. I'm not even sure the UNSC would have the power to sustain itself after such a war. And this is the role the Spartans had, to keep things from blowing up into a full scale civil war by removing rebel and terrorist groups or removing their leaders from the picture.

  • 05.01.2011 2:48 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: RotaryCookie

Posted by: carby21
Those innies could have taken over the entire galaxy without the spartans.


Thats a bit excessive, the ODSTs and other special forces could have defeated them in a full scale war, but it would have cost the lives of millions, if not more.

The SPARTANs were able to defeat them without resorting to a full scale war, therefore saving million of lives in the process, civilian and military alike.

This is the logic behind their creation.


Yes. If a full scale war came about, I'm pretty sure the UNSC would probably win. Though there would definitely be very heavy losses. I'm not even sure the UNSC would have the power to sustain itself after such a war. And this is the role the Spartans had, to keep things from blowing up into a full scale civil war by removing rebel and terrorist groups or removing their leaders from the picture.


And, Halsey pointed out anybody with transports capable of slipspace could deliver weapons of mass destruction, which would kill UNSC morale.

It'd hit the point where the UNSC civilians and maybe even military 'rebel' against their leaders simply to end the bloodshed.

Then you'd have the rebel cells start infighting and their freedom would be marked by a lack of government.

[Edited on 05.01.2011 3:19 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2011 3:18 PM PDT

I believe in The Fall of Reach it's shown that Halsey's goal with the SPARTAN-II Program was to sacrifice the lives of the few for the needs of the many.

Think of it this way. You're Dr. Halsey, in say 2505. The UNSC is combating the Rebels, with the fighting getting bloodier every day. Innocent civilians are being caught in the crossfire. However, you can sacrifice the lives of 75 children and potentially save billions of lives.

While this reasoning doesn't justified what Halsey did, it does make it easier to understand WHY she did it. As for being a monster, her intentions were good, and she did feel remorse afterword. So I'd say no.

  • 05.01.2011 7:36 PM PDT

She's a monster. The whole 'New Dark Age' is UNSC propaganda used to justify enslaving the colonies under one world government.

  • 05.01.2011 7:43 PM PDT

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