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Subject: Another Problem with Halo: Reach and Canon

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

If Kat is capable of operating in the field with a prosthetic, why didn't they just amputate the deformed limbs of Spartans like Soren-66 and give them prostheses so they could serve? Kat's arm doesn't affect her aim or dexterity at all.

  • 05.01.2011 8:55 PM PDT

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I think Soren was a special case plus I believe it's fairly new techonology. Althought they could have done something, they didn't. They regretted it.

  • 05.01.2011 8:57 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Lord Slade
If Kat is capable of operating in the field with a prosthetic, why didn't they just amputate the deformed limbs of Spartans like Soren-66 and give them prostheses so they could serve? Kat's arm doesn't affect her aim or dexterity at all.


2525 Technology =/= 2552 Technology.

  • 05.01.2011 8:58 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Grasping at straws much? Besides, a deformed body is a bit much from a arm.

  • 05.01.2011 8:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Slade
If Kat is capable of operating in the field with a prosthetic, why didn't they just amputate the deformed limbs of Spartans like Soren-66 and give them prostheses so they could serve? Kat's arm doesn't affect her aim or dexterity at all.


wasn't soren completely deformed and debilitated by his failed augmentations?

  • 05.01.2011 9:02 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
2525 Technology =/= 2552 Technology.

From Contact Harvest:
Avery noted that the sleeve of Ponder's fatigue shirt was cuffed to a phantom elbow and pinned neatly to his side. Then he stopped staring. He had seen plenty of amputees. But it was rare to meet an active-duty marine that wasn't fitted with a permanent prosthetic.
That was from 2525.

Soren's legs and his hand were the only parts of him deformed beyond effective use.

[Edited on 05.01.2011 9:05 PM PDT]

  • 05.01.2011 9:03 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
2525 Technology =/= 2552 Technology.

From Contact Harvest:
Avery noted that the sleeve of Ponder's fatigue shirt was cuffed to a phantom elbow and pinned neatly to his side. Then he stopped staring. He had seen plenty of amputees. But it was rare to meet an active-duty marine that wasn't fitted with a permanent prosthetic.
That was from 2525.


Marine, not Spartan, besides like the people above me already said, his body was deformed beyond salvation.

  • 05.01.2011 9:05 PM PDT

As far as I took it, Soren basically looked like the Tank from left for dead.

Even then, loping limbs off and replacing them isn't an option most of the time.

  • 05.01.2011 9:08 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Maybe the augmentations would have made an amputation more difficult/impossible?

  • 05.01.2011 9:09 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As far as I took it, Soren basically looked like the Tank from left for dead.

Even then, loping limbs off and replacing them isn't an option most of the time.


His arms were so muscular that they had to constantly inject him with painkillers, I don't think he would have been fit for combat, prosthetics or not included.

  • 05.01.2011 9:09 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Marine, not Spartan, besides like the people above me already said, his body was deformed beyond salvation.

The concept could apply for a Spartan just like it did with Kat. And he wasn't crippled beyond fixing:
When he stood, he realized there was something wrong with his legs. They were strong, the muscles differentiated and much larger than before, but the muscles had done something to the bone, twisting them, curving them in odd directions. One leg was more or less normal, just a little bit bowed and twisted. The other, though, was gnarled and six inches shorter, and seemed more comfortable when folded up. That leg's ankle was rubbery and left the foot flopping. He could still stand but only at an angle, leaning far to the side, and he was more comfortable, he realized, if he used a hand for balance as well.

His arms, too, were rippling with muscles and seemed almost impossibly strong. They were for the most part fine: They were hardly deformed, relatively straight. But the fingers of one hand had become twisted and bowed, functioning now less like individual articulated digits, and more like a single pincer or claw.

So amputate his legs and hand and give him prosthesis. An easy fix for a valuable asset like him, considering he still had the training and augmentations.

  • 05.01.2011 9:13 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Maybe the augmentations would have made an amputation more difficult/impossible?

Spartans like James and Kat have lost limbs to plasma fire before. By 2525 laser surgery would have evolved enough to amputate a limb even if the bone was reinforced with the ceramic carbide that the Spartans had.

  • 05.01.2011 9:15 PM PDT

"You were weak... and gods must be strong."


Posted by: Lord Slade
If Kat is capable of operating in the field with a prosthetic, why didn't they just amputate the deformed limbs of Spartans like Soren-66 and give them prostheses so they could serve? Kat's arm doesn't affect her aim or dexterity at all.


Hrm... well, one plausible theory is the time difference. If I'm correct (not looking at any dates right now, too lazy), Kat got her prosthetic fairly close to the game, maybe a few weeks or months. That's towards the end of the war/the most advances of technology in the war.

Soren's situation.. was right after augmentations finished, wasn't it? Perhaps while prosthetics were good, they weren't /that/ good to integrate with a Spartan at the time. Especially since Spartans didn't yet have fully functional Mark V armor that is more or less linked to the prosthetic itself.

~~~~~~

My other theory on this is the fact that while Noble Team is a specialized Spartan team, they aren't the Spartan IIs. Due to their sheer numbers (the Spartan-III companies, that is) and the fact that Noble Team is made up of Spartans from different companies, they haven't been fighting and training along eachother in such tight-knit groups for so long.

The Spartan-IIs were meant to be a perfectly cohesive group- I believe that's part of why Spartan-IIs are better than Spartan-IIIs. They're simply more cohesive because they were trained in a much smaller batch and as such, all squads encountered eachother far more often and had to work together in mass drills more often. To have a mechanical arm in such an otherwise solid group could be... less than beneficial.

  • 05.01.2011 9:17 PM PDT

Again, I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense morally or command wise to just go "Okay, chop that guy's arms and legs off and replace them with robotic ones."

  • 05.01.2011 9:21 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Again, I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense morally or command wise to just go "Okay, chop that guy's arms and legs off and replace them with robotic ones."

It wouldn't be any less amoral than the Spartan program, and Soren himself would be willing if it meant he wouldn't be left behind.

What's so wrong with replacing deformed limbs that cause constant agony to the owner with equally-functional prostheses that would allow him to, at the very least, serve as a pilot if not on the front lines?

  • 05.01.2011 9:26 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Again, I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense morally or command wise to just go "Okay, chop that guy's arms and legs off and replace them with robotic ones."

It wouldn't be any less amoral than the Spartan program, and Soren himself would be willing if it meant he wouldn't be left behind.

What's so wrong with replacing deformed limbs that cause constant agony to the owner with equally-functional prostheses that would allow him to, at the very least, serve as a pilot if not on the front lines?


Because it's a waste of a soldier, giving him prosthetics would nullify his augmentations, at least with Kat it was just one, but having two legs and an arm replaced is a different story.

  • 05.01.2011 10:07 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Because it's a waste of a soldier, giving him prosthetics would nullify his augmentations, at least with Kat it was just one, but having two legs and an arm replaced is a different story.

What's to say that a prosthetic would underperform compared to a Spartan? It's machinery, and Kat still seems capable of meleeing and firing an Assault Rifle normally with hers. Plus, as I mentioned before Soren would make an exceptional pilot, as he can withstand G forces normal humans cannot, has enhanced reflexes and thought processing, and is better trained to cope with stressful situations.

  • 05.01.2011 11:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As far as I took it, Soren basically looked like the Tank from left for dead.

Even then, loping limbs off and replacing them isn't an option most of the time.


I actually pictured his arm looking a bit like a Flood Elite's :P

And anyway, I'm not sure if they had the technology at the time to really integrate prosthesis in with Spartan augmentations accurately and still have them perform like a Spartan. Plus Soren ran away a short time after augmentations. For all he knew Halsey or scientists with/under her could have been working on something to fix him up and he was just given a desk job for the time being.

And that's not really a problem with Reach but more a problem with Pariah (if you even consider a problem, which I don't). And like I said above, something could have been in the works for Soren but he never would found out since he ran away.

[Edited on 05.02.2011 7:13 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 7:11 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As far as I took it, Soren basically looked like the Tank from left for dead.

Even then, loping limbs off and replacing them isn't an option most of the time.


I actually pictured his arm looking a bit like a Flood Elite's :P

And anyway, I'm not sure if they had the technology at the time to really integrate prosthesis in with Spartan augmentations accurately and still have them perform like a Spartan. Plus Soren ran away a short time after augmentations. For all he knew Halsey or scientists with/under her could have been working on something to fix him up and he was just given a desk job for the time being.

And that's not really a problem with Reach but more a problem with Pariah (if you even consider a problem, which I don't). And like I said above, something could have been in the works for Soren but he never would found out since he ran away.


Yeah, Halsey was working on getting the crippled, or 'dead' Spartans back to normal, or even to like the rest who passed the Augmentations.

  • 05.02.2011 7:15 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

I'll chalk it up as an error on Evenson's behalf. It just irks me that this takes place 215 years after the cure for cancer was discovered but they couldn't think of a fix for some malformations.

  • 05.02.2011 7:41 AM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
I'll chalk it up as an error on Evenson's behalf. It just irks me that this takes place 215 years after the cure for cancer was discovered but they couldn't think of a fix for some malformations.


The problem is the washouts had numerous things wrong. Ranging from the one guy shaking uncontrollably, to the two who where so disformed they had to be suspended in a gel to live.

  • 05.02.2011 7:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Lord Slade
I'll chalk it up as an error on Evenson's behalf. It just irks me that this takes place 215 years after the cure for cancer was discovered but they couldn't think of a fix for some malformations.


The problem is the washouts had numerous things wrong. Ranging from the one guy shaking uncontrollably, to the two who where so disformed they had to be suspended in a gel to live.


Plus their bodies were not really like true humans anymore. A prosthetic procedure or anything else that might work perfectly fine on a normal human being may not work exactly right for a Spartan or a washout from the program.

  • 05.02.2011 8:13 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Plus their bodies were not really like true humans anymore. A prosthetic procedure or anything else that might work perfectly fine on a normal human being may not work exactly right for a Spartan or a washout from the program.

Soren's malformations didn't extend past his legs and his one hand. If Kat can fight with a prothesis, why couldn't Soren?

  • 05.02.2011 9:08 AM PDT

because like everything in Reach, they have tried to evolve a Universe beyond its constraints, which just jumbles and confuses everything. the Autumn being on Reach even though it was never said to have landed (hell can it even land?!), armour abilities that Noble team have but the more advanced suit worn by John in Halo II didn't have anything like it, the list goes on and on and on. the whole Universe is a mess and needs recompiled from the start with everything published (games and books) fitting into the exact same universal constraints, so they will all be correct.

  • 05.02.2011 9:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: OrderedComa
Plus their bodies were not really like true humans anymore. A prosthetic procedure or anything else that might work perfectly fine on a normal human being may not work exactly right for a Spartan or a washout from the program.

Soren's malformations didn't extend past his legs and his one hand. If Kat can fight with a prothesis, why couldn't Soren?


I said that it is highly possible that there was no way to fix it at that point. Yeah, I know there were prosthetic limbs, but how do you know they would work the augmentation to a Spartan at that point? And even if they were going to give Soren prosthetic limbs, it wouldn't be immediately, they'd need at least some time to prepare for it, and Soren ran away not too long after augmentation because he didn't want to be stuck at a desk job (which may have only been temporary).

  • 05.02.2011 9:28 AM PDT

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