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  • Subject: The Effects of Art on Level Design
Subject: The Effects of Art on Level Design

Hi everyone,

A few of you might know that I'm in school right now and working on my master's degree. For those interested, I'm majoring in art and engineering, focusing on level design and environmental art. Anyways, I'm working on my master's thesis paper. I'll be analyzing the art and design of multiplayer maps within the Halo series.

Thesis: As environmental art increases, level design decreases. In other words, as levels begin to resemble believable environments and places, compromises are made with level designs, that effects playability.

What this paper is not about: This is not a paper about which Halo map you like best. This isn't a paper about which Halo mechanics you like best, or how much you like or dislike AA's, or how mechanics affect level design. Lastly, this isn't about which Halo map/ game you feel is the most competitive.

Things you probably have an opinion on that might be helpful to me are:

1. What halo titles have you played?
2. What type of player are you?
3. How do maps like Longest and Elongation differ because of the environmental art added to Elongation? An example would be: I would consider the conveyor belts to be an influence of the theme on the design. How about other maps like Lockout and Blackout?
4. Do you feel that the art and/or theme help or detract from the design?
5. What are some positive things about believable environments?
6. Do you care how good a game looks? Yes or No.

Questions for those that have work on an FPS on a professional level (Halo, HEK, distributed MODs, or other published FPS title.)

1. If you have worked on past AND current gen engines, has your work flow changed?
2. Does having the ability to make the environment more believable influence your design/level layout?
3. Do you feel pressured to make the level look like something?
4. What percentages of your work time were spent designing the layout versus dressing the level?
5. Do you feel the "look" of the map became more important than playability? Yes or No, and why?
6. If you worked with a team, what role did you fulfill?
7. What was the name of engine used for game, and for what platform was it made for?
8. What year was the map or game released?

Pictures: early level layout (napkin sketches), BSP, final dress level. When possible show top down views that show level layout. Please hi-light changes to level layout, if any.

Please note: If you choose to respond, please only answer the questions that apply to you. Also, please note if you are a casual player or a hardcore player. If you created a map for Halo PC: SE and have link, please provide it, and/or links to IMGs. If you have worked on a MOD or game and you're not under an NDA please post IMGs and provide the name of the title.

Lastly, if you respond and you would prefer that I use your real name, please state it. If you prefer that I do not disclose your forum name, please say so. I'll assume it's cool that I use any response, if you take the time to respond. Thanks in advance, and if you have any question, please ask.

-kon (ryan)

p.s. No flaming, keep it respectful. I consider all 5 games to be works of art. I'm simply looking at the relationship between art and design.

[Edited on 05.05.2011 8:33 PM PDT]

  • 05.02.2011 2:41 AM PDT
Subject: The Affect of Art on Level Design

Anyone, People do play halo on this forum... right? If this is not right sub forum for something like this, please move it to the appropriate forum. thanks:)

  • 05.04.2011 10:19 AM PDT
Subject: The Effects of Art on Level Design
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

I am not exactly sure what you are asking from us but if I understood you right, you want to hear my opinion.

I actually believe that developers are making too much compromises on level design just to get the enviroment to look more realistic. If we look at Halo CE and 2 maps there is one thing that makes them play well: simplycity. With Halo 3 the're were too much details on maps which made some parts blend to the map too well. With Halo Reach even more level design was sacrificed for looks of enviroment. Symnmetry was thrown out of window too.

But you don't necessarily have to sacrifice level design for enviromental art. Better graphics also don't mean that parts of maps have to blend in too well. You can use "eye catching" to make details not blend in the map too much. By the way, while I mentioned that Forge lesson, you should check otherGodly_Perfection's Forge Lessons too. They have important things concerning level design and enviromental art. You may even get something for your thesis from there. And they're really interesting to read too but now, where was I?

Oh, when designing multiplayer levels you have always put the level design ahead of enviromental art and then make compromises with enviromental art. Playablity is the most important part when designing, even if you had to sacrifice aesthetics for it but if you are good enough at designing levels, you don't have to sacrifice anything. Simplicity is also always a good thing. There are some enviromental details that might confuse players, these include: pipes, chain-link fences, too compex patterns on walls/ceiling/floor, etc. This kind of objects should be avoided as much as possible when designing levels.

Now as I have voiced my opinion I shall answer your questions:

1. I have played every single Halo title.

2. I am a semi-competitive player. I play for fun and don't care about winnig that much but understand a lot about game mechanics, map flow and things like that.

3. Adding those crates to Elongation definitely added a twist to the map. They were a very good mobile cover. They didn't impact gameplay too much. Change from Lockout to Blackout wasn't a good change. Many jumps were removed. Blackout is also a prime example of details blending too much on the enivroment. I never liked the design on Blackout's aesthetics. It wasn't simple enough.

4. Does art and theme detract or help with design totally depends on how they are made. If they're not too complex and have enough eye catchers that still blend well to the overall design of the map, then they help. If they are too confusing the detract.

5. I would personally always take good map flow over realism any time. Playablity should always have the top priority on maps. Realistic eniroments are either neutral or have negative effects on playablity.

6. No, as long as it play well.

That might be a lot to read but at least I got everything out. I really hope that helps you with your thesis.

P.S. This isn't exactly the right forum to talk about gameplay but at least we are more helpful tha Reach and The Flood. I'll let you stay her. This is a good thread and imortant to you.

Edit: Don't be afraid to ask me more questions. I am always willing to talk about map design. I will save this thread for future reference.

Edit 2: Sorry that I didn't meantion my name. It's Sebastian. You can use it if you need to.

Edit 3: I felt like mentioning that all my answers only apply to multiplayer. In campaign art and graphics have a huge effect on mood of the game. Of course level design still plays a big part, but instead of being the most important thing it's on par with enviromental art.

P.P.S. These edits are getting silly. I hope I don't have anything to sayin this post anymore.

[Edited on 05.06.2011 6:48 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 12:13 PM PDT
Subject: The Affect of Art on Level Design

dude that was perfect. All I'm looking for is people's(players) opinions on the matter. When people make games, they should be making them for the people that play them, which I think Bungie does very well. Some people just don't realize or ignore the fact that other people play, or value other things more than they do. There isn't a right or wrong answer to any of these questions. Just one small part of something much bigger.

First I must prove or disprove the thesis. This will be done by looking at maps that have appeared in multiple Halos. See what changes have been made visually and design wise. And That will also be countered by information available about changes made based on gameplay and mechanics. For instance, a lot of the changes to blackout were made based on gameplay, not artistically driven, this is available in a dev blog interview. Where the designer talks about changes made to fix "problem" areas of the map to make it more balance. This would most often be done before an artist get a hold of a mass out level. There isn't info. on all the levels, so some assumptions will have to made, and validated based on logic statements. We see what happen.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond, I found it very useful.


[Edited on 05.05.2011 6:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2011 5:12 PM PDT

The Effect of Art on Level Design

  • 05.05.2011 6:24 PM PDT

Hello, my name is Jake. I have a few questions for YOU too. I am looking to do something similar for my career.
1. What college(s) did you attend for this major?
2. Were there any High School classes that you benefited from?
3. Any other insights for me?

On to your questions.

1. I have played all of the campaigns multiple times on each difficulty except halo 1, which I beat once on heroic. I have played H3-Reach online.

2. In matchmaking, I consider myself a competitive player who is always one step ahead of his opponents. I make it a priority to master difficult jumps and tricks that can help me get away, and I study maps to see where players will attack and defend objectives and carney holes.

3. I personally hated customs on elongation. I dont know what it was, but usually it turned into a nade spam fest with my friends and I. But I did like the moving conveyor-belts, because they added something besides plain floors to the map. IMO, Blackout is better than lockout. I like the theme/backround of blackout a lot more. It just feels smoother to me.

4. Any map feels better to me with more developed art. More art = more satisfaction to me. I absolutely love the art on condemned and highlands from the DMP.

5. Does not apply to me.
6. Yes. A better looking game becomes much more enjoyable. Thats one of the reasons I love halo so much.

  • 05.05.2011 7:13 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81

1. All of them.
2. Casual.
3. I haven't really played Halo 2 online, sorry.
4. It depends at what point in development they were introduced.
5. They Immerse you, and feel like it's a believable apart of the game's story line.
6. No, as long as the gameplay is solid, I don't mind.

  • 05.05.2011 7:22 PM PDT
Subject: The Effects of Art on Level Design

Disclaimer, I'm not an English Major-- you'll probably find a gazillion grammatical errors in the OP. Base on how I understand the rules of affect and effect. Affect with an A means to influence, and Effect with an E mean a result. I suppose I could we word it to read "How Art Affects Level Design" or "The Effects of Art on Level Design" So if English is your thing, let me know. b/c I thought I used the right word; maybe it was just worded poorly.

edit, verified it, you were right.

[Edited on 05.05.2011 8:32 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2011 7:44 PM PDT

I've been in school for over 10 years and still suck at English:)

2012
Entertainment Art and Engineering Master Studio
University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah

2010
Post-Baccalaureate Studies
BYU Center for Animation, Provo, Utah

2008
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah

2003
Associate of Art and Science
Utah Valley University, Orem, UT

1999
Undergraduates Studies
Art Center College of Design, Pasadena, CA

The short story is, I've been at school a long time, b/c I went from fine art to games.

Insights, it's a lot of work. You have to really want to do it. But making games is much more fun than playing. People that play all day don't make games. And it's not as easy as those chessy commericals on tv make it look-- push big botton to do this.

Learn how to work with a team. I would recommend joining a mod team and/ or school that has a program that makes games not just studies them. This gives you real experience and will help build your portfolio. And one last thing, work hard.

heres a link to the top 10 video game programs in the usa

http://www.princetonreview.com/game-design-press-release.aspx

hope that helps, and thanks for the response. If you have any other question, feel free to ask.

[Edited on 05.06.2011 4:14 AM PDT]

  • 05.05.2011 8:21 PM PDT


Posted by: K0N ART15T
I've been in school for over 10 years and still suck at English:)

2012
Entertainment Art and Engineering Master Studio
University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah

2010
Post-Baccalaureate Studies
BYU Center for Animation, Provo, Utah

2008
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah

2003
Associate of Art and Science
Utah Valley University, Orem, UT

1999
Undergraduates Studies
Art Center College of Design, Pasadena, CA

The short story is, I've been at school a long time, b/c I went from fine art to games.

Insights, it's a lot of work. You have to really want to do it. But making games is much more fun than playing. People that play all day don't make games. And it's not as easy as those chessy commericals on tv make it look-- push big botton to do this.

Learn how to work with a team. I would recommend joining a mod team and/ or school that has a program that makes games not just studies them. This gives you real experience and will help build your portfolio. And one last thing, work hard.

heres a link to the top 10 video game programs in the usa

http://www.princetonreview.com/game-design-press-release.aspx

hope that helps, and thanks for the response. If you have any other question, feel free to ask.


Thanks. Any other questions? This is one of the few posts Ive actually cared about in the last few weeks.

  • 05.06.2011 4:47 AM PDT

Cave Johnson here, we're done!

PS: If you are reading this comment while imagining my voice, don't panic. That's just a side effect of the testing.

1) I have played All currently released Halo Titles.

2) I'm mostly a gamer that intends to explore each aspect of the game. I Don't usually miss out on one aspect of the game because this part of the game was better. I take my time looking at as much as I can when it comes to campaign and firefight, rather than just playing multiplayer. So I guess you could categorize me as a player who puts worth into the money that he spent.

3) A)The conveyor belt was a nice touch when it came to adding something new to the level design of Longest. Longest definitely had a theme of forerunner mystery, mostly because everything seemed to be foggy and flickering on and off as if it was a piece of technology frozen in time itself.

Elongation had this shipping yard kind of feel with practically every kind of button you could think of on displays mounted on the walls in practically every single room. It also had some walkways that had an aesthetic feel of being in a bubble like environment as if you were on one of the apollo rockets. You were also given a nice little treat with some window side views of earth so you could get the feeling of actually being in space, rather than some boring station out in Pittsburgh or something.

B) Another classic scenario of forerunner mystery versus human design would be the two maps Lockout and Blackout. Lockout again was another map with the great theme of mystery and ancient. Where as blackout had the theme of human design and being recently abandoned. But I personally felt that blackout didn't really have as much substance as lockout did. Lockout really worked well theme wise because when you looked at it's surroundings, it matched the large cliff side and the snowstorm silence as you stare out into the mountains fare off into the distance.

Whereas blackout had this wonderful dark arctic ice scenery with the moon shining down upon you, and then you look around at the areas you can walk on and you see this bright sharp metal chunk that didn't really mix with the background as well as lockout had.

C) Another good example you should look at is the difference between two maps that go for the same theme design. The maps that I'm talking about are Sidewinder and Avalanche. Both having a frozen in time forerunner feel but one still maintains that mystery more than the other.

Sidewinder had no clear indication of what exactly it did as a forerunner building. Whereas you could clearly get a feel of an energy retrieving station from Avalanche.

D) Campaign level design is somewhat different when it comes to multiplayer design. It seems to be like you almost want clutter to be there, for the surrounding for you to play on to have things you can jump around and reach for areas you haven't been before. You want the aesthetic feel to dominate over the gameplay mostly because in a fps story you want to hear about the story rather than the shooting. You are often playing a small role in a bigger story and you want to take in as much as you can. Explore things, get somewhere to get a different angle on a massive sized structure, and really just immerse yourself into the design. It's somewhat the complete opposite to multiplayer map design, where for the most part you want it in the background and out of your way.


4) I don't think the art or the theme really gets in the way until the geometry actually interferes with my gameplay. Some maps are really good in that aspect by keeping a lot of the aesthetic design out of the playing area, and the farther you go along in the halo series specifically, the more you see these objects spread along the floor and the side walls interfering with gameplay.

Like take Assembly for example, the background is amazing, gigantic structures all around you and right above you scarabs are being blasted by some kind of plasma. But on the map itself more specifically in the center you have a lot of weird objects built into the geometry that unnecessarily change the flow of the map. Like the three or four little cylindrical platforms that are there just for kicks is possibly the most annoying part of the map to play on.

But the best balance that I have seen in a Halo multiplayer map design is definitely desolation from halo 2. It was a remake of a map from Halo CE (Can't seem to remember the name) but it had a beautiful balance of aesthetic design that was out of your way but not out of sight. Looking up and you would see large forerunner towers glowing with energy, and around you would be a pale greenish grey floor riddled with an odd ancient looking texture, all the while you would be walking around on smooth simple geometry that wouldn't get in the way of your path.

And the map with the worst balance would have to be backwash from halo 2. It was a beautiful map, but the trees and the lack of any real high ground or low ground made it a map just filled with clutter that made it interfere with gameplay.

6) (Yes I'm skipping 5) I do care how a game looks. But it depends on how much I care how a game looks. It usually comes second only to gameplay, but some games are built because the artistic design is more important than the gameplay. Like take the recently new game for the kinect called "Child of Eden". The gameplay is simple, not a lot of controls, but the art is what bring people in. It's in this case I would care more for art than gameplay, but for a game that contains a large amount of interaction it needs to be more focused on the gameplay rather than the art design.

I can't say that I am a level designer, but I have been using 3D modelling tools for quite some time now. I have been using blender for at least 5 years now, and I do have a lot more respect for a level designer now than I did five years ago. I have tried making maps before, and I usually find myself getting distracted in the process of making it fit in with the theme rather than the actual design itself.

But since I haven't participated in the professional world I will not be adding on to that.

I'm not a big fan of my current username, and I'm kind of loosing interest on my gamertag. So if you do decide to use my name I wouldn't mind if you used either, but I would prefer it if you would use the name Jebidiah.

Edit: post put into paragraph form to make it a little easier on the eyes.

[Edited on 05.06.2011 6:29 AM PDT]

  • 05.06.2011 6:26 AM PDT