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This topic has moved here: Subject: The True Cause of the War
  • Subject: The True Cause of the War
Subject: The True Cause of the War

In Contact Harvest, it is revealed that the prophets discover that the humans are reclaimers. Due to the dangerous implications for their religion, humanity had to be eliminated. This manifested in a phony charge of "desecration," and subsequent extermination. My question is why Bungie failed to reveal this unbelievably crucial plot point anywhere but a novel.

  • 05.02.2011 3:01 AM PDT

Get ready to face the Magic Of This Muffin!!

No actually, they misread the transcriptions as "reclamation" on forerunner artefacts, which lead them to believe that they needed to eliminate the humans, but when they realised that only humans could activate the forerunner technology, they didn't reveal the major error of the discovery to the rest of the covenant to keep them in power.

  • 05.02.2011 3:06 AM PDT


Posted by: Magic Muffin x
No actually, they misread the transcriptions as "reclamation" on forerunner artefacts, which lead them to believe that they needed to eliminate the humans, but when they realised that only humans could activate the forerunner technology, they didn't reveal the major error of the discovery to the rest of the covenant to keep them in power.


Actually, the OP is right. Mendicant Bias corrected them and Truth, knowing that knowledge would rip apart the Covenant as a group, and as a religion, hid that fact. He then declared that the humans had to be wiped out.

  • 05.02.2011 3:19 AM PDT

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

Posted by: katamariguy
My question is why Bungie failed to reveal this unbelievably crucial plot point anywhere but a novel.

Politics ... how tiresome

How do you think Bungie could have included it in gameplay since only the 3 prophets know about it?
The only possibility I can see is a confession from truth when the arbiter killed him.

  • 05.02.2011 3:29 AM PDT


Posted by: H0FFman J
Posted by: katamariguy
My question is why Bungie failed to reveal this unbelievably crucial plot point anywhere but a novel.

Politics ... how tiresome

How do you think Bungie could have included it in gameplay since only the 3 prophets know about it?
The only possibility I can see is a confession from truth when the arbiter killed him.


Fat chance of that. That'd require Truth to admit he lied.

  • 05.02.2011 3:40 AM PDT

Now, I only have one function: to help you, Reclaimer, as I always should have done.
-Guilty Spark to Master Chief


Humans, as illustrated by both Mendicant Bias and Guilty Spark, are Reclaimers. This implication was made very clearly in Halo 3, again by Guilty Spark:

You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner!

While arguments are made that Spark must be rampant to think Chief is physically a Forerunner, the statement implies a larger connection. Namely that, being the "child of [his] makers," Chief (and Humanity) are the inheritors of The Mantle. In this regard, they have assumed the role of the Forerunners in the galaxy, and are, in fact, reclaimers.

Look for this to be fleshed out in gory detail with the release of Halo 4 with connections to Greg Bear's trilogy.

  • 05.02.2011 6:49 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: H0FFman J
Posted by: katamariguy
My question is why Bungie failed to reveal this unbelievably crucial plot point anywhere but a novel.

Politics ... how tiresome

How do you think Bungie could have included it in gameplay since only the 3 prophets know about it?
The only possibility I can see is a confession from truth when the arbiter killed him.


Fat chance of that. That'd require Truth to admit he lied.

By the end of it all one might even think that he convinced himself of his lie.

  • 05.02.2011 6:53 AM PDT


Posted by: III Prothus III
Look for this to be fleshed out in gory detail with the release of Halo 4 with connections to Greg Bear's trilogy.

Says who?

  • 05.02.2011 7:10 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
By the end of it all one might even think that he convinced himself of his lie.


That's what happened. He was so into it he honestly believed he could become a god.

  • 05.02.2011 7:16 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Magic Muffin x
No actually, they misread the transcriptions as "reclamation" on forerunner artefacts, which lead them to believe that they needed to eliminate the humans, but when they realised that only humans could activate the forerunner technology, they didn't reveal the major error of the discovery to the rest of the covenant to keep them in power.


Actually, the OP is right. Mendicant Bias corrected them and Truth, knowing that knowledge would rip apart the Covenant as a group, and as a religion, hid that fact. He then declared that the humans had to be wiped out.


Actually I'd say both the OP and the second guy are right :P They both have a piece of what it was. The Covenant had misinterpreted the "Reclaimer" symbol to mean "Reclamation" and then when Mendicant corrected the three soon to be High Prophets of the games, they further misinterpreted his meaning and thought they were actual Forerunners who had been left behind or something similar, and this would destroy the whole Covenant.

Or something like that, that's how I remember it going anyway >_>

  • 05.02.2011 7:35 AM PDT

Coma, you have it pretty spot on.

They took the data to Bias, who corrected them from reclamation to reclaimer. Truth, knowing this knowledge (thinking it meant left behind forerunners or something similar) would destroy the Covenant, shut bias down I think? swore the other two to secrecy (if memory is right) then declared holy war.

  • 05.02.2011 7:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: III Prothus III
Now, I only have one function: to help you, Reclaimer, as I always should have done.
-Guilty Spark to Master Chief


Humans, as illustrated by both Mendicant Bias and Guilty Spark, are Reclaimers. This implication was made very clearly in Halo 3, again by Guilty Spark:

You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner!

While arguments are made that Spark must be rampant to think Chief is physically a Forerunner, the statement implies a larger connection. Namely that, being the "child of [his] makers," Chief (and Humanity) are the inheritors of The Mantle. In this regard, they have assumed the role of the Forerunners in the galaxy, and are, in fact, reclaimers.

Look for this to be fleshed out in gory detail with the release of Halo 4 with connections to Greg Bear's trilogy.
Forerunner writing conclude 3 dimensionsal meanings that we can translate and understand while at they same time they also have higher dimensional meanings which we do not understand.

That being said the symbol for the number "0" also has a higher meaning.

This can be considered true with there language also where one word might have multiple meanings. In which case People for some reason link reclamation to the mantle while the true meaning of the word might be based on the idea the forerunners left the orion arm to let humanity reclaim the worlds the flood and forerunners stripped from them.

  • 05.02.2011 8:07 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Coma, you have it pretty spot on.

They took the data to Bias, who corrected them from reclamation to reclaimer. Truth, knowing this knowledge (thinking it meant left behind forerunners or something similar) would destroy the Covenant, shut bias down I think? swore the other two to secrecy (if memory is right) then declared holy war.


Yeah, something like that. I think Bias was actually shut down quite by accident, IRRC, from what I remember the Lekgolo crawling around inside the Dreadnought shut him down. I can't remember if they did so because they were ordered to or if it was an accident. I seem to recall Truth or Regret shouting in a relative panic to get the Dreadnought shut down while Bias was trying to launch it.

  • 05.02.2011 8:10 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Coma, you have it pretty spot on.

They took the data to Bias, who corrected them from reclamation to reclaimer. Truth, knowing this knowledge (thinking it meant left behind forerunners or something similar) would destroy the Covenant, shut bias down I think? swore the other two to secrecy (if memory is right) then declared holy war.


Yeah, something like that. I think Bias was actually shut down quite by accident, IRRC, from what I remember the Lekgolo crawling around inside the Dreadnought shut him down. I can't remember if they did so because they were ordered to or if it was an accident. I seem to recall Truth or Regret shouting in a relative panic to get the Dreadnought shut down while Bias was trying to launch it.


They got fried when the systems powered up, and I think that caused a short or something.

  • 05.02.2011 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Coma, you have it pretty spot on.

They took the data to Bias, who corrected them from reclamation to reclaimer. Truth, knowing this knowledge (thinking it meant left behind forerunners or something similar) would destroy the Covenant, shut bias down I think? swore the other two to secrecy (if memory is right) then declared holy war.


Yeah, something like that. I think Bias was actually shut down quite by accident, IRRC, from what I remember the Lekgolo crawling around inside the Dreadnought shut him down. I can't remember if they did so because they were ordered to or if it was an accident. I seem to recall Truth or Regret shouting in a relative panic to get the Dreadnought shut down while Bias was trying to launch it.


He was shutdown because he was going to go to harvest and take the humans to the Ark. which other than put the covenant in disarray would cause extreme problems with the structure of high charity.

  • 05.02.2011 8:15 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Coma, you have it pretty spot on.

They took the data to Bias, who corrected them from reclamation to reclaimer. Truth, knowing this knowledge (thinking it meant left behind forerunners or something similar) would destroy the Covenant, shut bias down I think? swore the other two to secrecy (if memory is right) then declared holy war.


Yeah, something like that. I think Bias was actually shut down quite by accident, IRRC, from what I remember the Lekgolo crawling around inside the Dreadnought shut him down. I can't remember if they did so because they were ordered to or if it was an accident. I seem to recall Truth or Regret shouting in a relative panic to get the Dreadnought shut down while Bias was trying to launch it.


He was shutdown because he was going to go to harvest and take the humans to the Ark. which other than put the covenant in disarray would cause extreme problems with the structure of high charity.


Yeah, I know why he was disconnected afterward, I just can't remember if the Lekgolo intentionaly or accidently shut the launch sequence down after Mendicant's Speech.

  • 05.02.2011 10:45 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

It was about states rights, not slavery that caused the war.

  • 05.02.2011 10:53 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

don't get me wrong im not a conspiracy teorist but:
doesn't this looks like when the US government destroyed the twin towers so they could invade iraq for the oil

  • 05.02.2011 11:06 AM PDT


Posted by: fsabran
don't get me wrong im not a conspiracy teorist but:
doesn't this looks like when the US government destroyed the twin towers so they could invade iraq for the oil


*facemeatgrinder/flamethrower* -.-

How does the Covenant starting a war with Humanity even match that conspiracy theory at all? And not to mention the sheer idiocy of that theory to begin with. Why the hell would the U.S. senselessly slaughter its own civilians, not to mention suicide bomb one of its own military headquarters? If they wanted the oil in Iraq we would have just invaded and come up with an excuse after the fact. Not to mention, why would Bin Laden claim he was responsible for it when that only endangers himself and would cause innumerable people to kill him on sight.

So yeah, the conspiracy theory that the U.S. was responsible for the World Trade Center and Pentagon bombings is just ludicrous. I'm done, I'm not going to focus on that again because I don't want to start a political debate. I do want to know how you think that conspiracy theory is similar to the acts of the Covenant leadership though.

  • 05.02.2011 1:03 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Why?

Because the games followed the Master Chief. We had never seen the Covenant social structure and inner workings since Contact Harvest, and a novel was a perfect place to carefully explain what happend.

  • 05.02.2011 1:17 PM PDT


The only possibility I can see is a confession from truth when the arbiter killed him.


Interestingly, Truth did remark on how the forerunners left humanity behind.

  • 05.18.2011 2:03 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: Magic Muffin x
No actually, they misread the transcriptions as "reclamation" on forerunner artefacts, which lead them to believe that they needed to eliminate the humans, but when they realised that only humans could activate the forerunner technology, they didn't reveal the major error of the discovery to the rest of the covenant to keep them in power.


Damn prophets!

  • 05.18.2011 2:07 AM PDT

KIWIZ RULE THE WORLD!

Its just that nobody knows it yet...

It was pretty dam obvious that it was going to be something like that from halo 1 when monitor 343 treats humans differently/special saying they were the only ones who could "Neutralize the flood"

  • 05.18.2011 2:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: III Prothus III
Now, I only have one function: to help you, Reclaimer, as I always should have done.
-Guilty Spark to Master Chief


Humans, as illustrated by both Mendicant Bias and Guilty Spark, are Reclaimers. This implication was made very clearly in Halo 3, again by Guilty Spark:

You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner!

While arguments are made that Spark must be rampant to think Chief is physically a Forerunner, the statement implies a larger connection. Namely that, being the "child of [his] makers," Chief (and Humanity) are the inheritors of The Mantle. In this regard, they have assumed the role of the Forerunners in the galaxy, and are, in fact, reclaimers.

Look for this to be fleshed out in gory detail with the release of Halo 4 with connections to Greg Bear's trilogy.

the mantle that you are referring to does not exist, and it is possible that nearly all of you are mistranslating the term "reclaimer" just like the covenant mistranslated it.


Humans are probably "reclaimers" because the forerunner left orion space so they could reclaim the worlds they lost to the forerunner and flood.Everybody making a religion out of this and the mantle are on the same thinking pattern as the covenant.

  • 05.18.2011 6:48 AM PDT