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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?

Yes, he was the only Spartan in place when the Autumn jumped. As such, he was the Spartan on hand to tackle the Halo rings. In Halo 2-3, Blue Team was sent away. Once again, he was the only Spartan on hand to spearhead the Delta Halo campaign, along with the Ark landing.

John saved the galaxy, and inspired Humanity as it's hero. Yes.

He's also, according to the novels, entirely mediocre as a Spartan. He is not the strongest, fastest, best marksmen, smartest, most agile, etc. He is average, in literally every regard. He is exceptional in only one regard, and that was leadership. He was one of four Spartan selected to be leaders (and even then, Kurt's team frequently outperformed John's team because Kurt was the better commander).

Bungie's stance, not mine, is that John is an average Spartan who excells at only one thing. Leadership. And he isn't even the best at that.

For those familiar with the definition of average, this means John was in the middle of his class as far as terms of abilities went. That means that 50% of the Spartans, roughly, would have performed as good as he did in Halo 1-3, if not better.

I really laugh at everyone who claims John is somehow a better warrior than Noble Six. Leader, absolutely. But N6 was declared to be one of two Spartans to have the hyper-lethal rating....and god knows it isn't going to be 'everyman' John.

  • 05.04.2011 1:20 AM PDT

Master chief helped kill Osama (Snacks if you get this)

  • 05.04.2011 1:23 AM PDT

You get +1 internets

  • 05.04.2011 1:25 AM PDT

i love playing halo! and i would love being a bungie beta tester but my biggest dream would be working with bungie to make new kick ass video games!

Thats weird...in Halseys journal that came with the Limited edition of reach she writes that there was one spartan that stood out. one that was best at everything Spartan 117.

  • 05.04.2011 1:51 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: IBumpElectro
Thats weird...in Halseys journal that came with the Limited edition of reach she writes that there was one spartan that stood out. one that was best at everything Spartan 117.


Doubt it, Kelly could outrun him any day, Linda could outsnipe him, Kurt could out-lead him(sp?), Fred could beat him in CQC, etc, etc. If I remember well, Fred always came up in second place in everything, John even mentions that he did it because he didn't want the attention, so if there is a "best" Spartan, that'd be Fred.

  • 05.04.2011 1:56 AM PDT


Posted by: IBumpElectro
Thats weird...in Halseys journal that came with the Limited edition of reach she writes that there was one spartan that stood out. one that was best at everything Spartan 117.


Which I have in front of me. Right now. I don't seem to recall that being in there, at all. Can you toss me a page number so I can see?

  • 05.04.2011 1:57 AM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

Chief is a "jack of all trades" Spartan. He didn't excel in any particular element.

  • 05.04.2011 2:23 AM PDT

Game on! Lets have some fun. I am the true Tartan Spartan

It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!

  • 05.04.2011 2:26 AM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

Posted by: marhorn
It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!


Others call it game mechanics.

  • 05.04.2011 2:28 AM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: marhorn
Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

MC used forerunner door, and jumped from lower altitude. Also, he locked his armor.

  • 05.04.2011 2:32 AM PDT


Posted by: Snake Archer
Chief is a "jack of all trades" Spartan. He didn't excel in any particular element.


Technically any Spartan is besides their specialty.

Posted by: marhorn
It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!


A: Catching the coin isn't that big a deal.
B: He was only able to do it because of Cortana. Even then if it wasn't for the fact she literally tracked the aircraft from it's launch site. He was royally Effed up after doing it as well.
C: Master Chief fell from lower orbit, higher speeds, using a Forerunner hull plate as a heat shield (You see it in the first level of Halo 3 not far from his start). Noble Six did not "Almost die!" the most Six was wounded was his arm (which I believe Jorge had in a vice grip anyway) and his leg had a slight limp. Neither are major injuries.
D: In fact, Chief, upon landing, was worse then Six. His armor was completely locked and he was most likely KOed due to not responding at all.

[Edited on 05.04.2011 2:49 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 2:47 AM PDT

I'm an Anarchist. I don't need a government to be a good person, but I'm glad it's here because some of you clearly do.

Would you prefer a Honda Civic, which has good MPG, decent cargo capacity, and a tough engine, or a Lamborghini Countach which is exceptionally fast, has absolutely horrid MPG, has no cargo space, and requires frequent maintenance?

  • 05.04.2011 3:01 AM PDT

Game on! Lets have some fun. I am the true Tartan Spartan

Chief wasnt KO'd.....he got straight up to pown the Arbiter!

Yes his new armour helped him a lot....and Cortana it could be argued did most of the work but John was always touted to be the best Spartan!

At the end of the Reach campaign....where Noble 6 dies, John would have survived that!

I just strongly beleive that John was the best spartan!

  • 05.04.2011 3:07 AM PDT


Posted by: Acres 057
Would you prefer a Honda Civic, which has good MPG, decent cargo capacity, and a tough engine, or a Lamborghini Countach which is exceptionally fast, has absolutely horrid MPG, has no cargo space, and requires frequent maintenance?


The problem I see in this comparison which I see a lot of people assuming wrongly.

People seem to think Master Chief is the ONLY jack of all trades spartan. They seem to think Linda never received 'average' (for a Spartan, which is damn good compared to a marine) marks in CQC.

All spartans were 'average' in everything. However in their specialty/focus they were masters.

  • 05.04.2011 3:09 AM PDT


Posted by: marhorn
Chief wasnt KO'd.....he got straight up to pown the Arbiter!

Yes his new armour helped him a lot....and Cortana it could be argued did most of the work but John was always touted to be the best Spartan!

At the end of the Reach campaign....where Noble 6 dies, John would have survived that!

I just strongly beleive that John was the best spartan!



If he wasn't KOed, why no response until a short bit AFTER they unlocked his armor.

John has only been called that once. By Halsey's PERSONAL, and slightly biased opinion.

Bull-blam!-. That's blind Master Chief fanboyism.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.

  • 05.04.2011 3:11 AM PDT

He could be the second best at everything.

  • 05.04.2011 3:12 AM PDT

Game on! Lets have some fun. I am the true Tartan Spartan

If he wasn't KOed, why no response until a short bit AFTER they unlocked his armor.

John has only been called that once. By Halsey's PERSONAL, and slightly biased opinion.

Bull-blam!-. That's blind Master Chief fanboyism.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.



We never seen how long 6 took to recouperate....

The Covenant never feared any other Spartan enough to call them Demon!

Not so....Just the fact that throughout Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 John pretty much took on the whole Covenant army (and Flood).....and WON!

Its like John is the chosen one....again going back to his luck/fate.


[Edited on 05.04.2011 3:31 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 3:29 AM PDT


Posted by: marhorn
If he wasn't KOed, why no response until a short bit AFTER they unlocked his armor.

John has only been called that once. By Halsey's PERSONAL, and slightly biased opinion.

Bull-blam!-. That's blind Master Chief fanboyism.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.



We never seen how long 6 took to recouperate....

The Covenant never feared any other Spartan enough to call them Demon!

Not so....Just the fact that throughout Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 John pretty much took on the whole Covenant army (and Flood).....and WON!

Its like John is the chosen one....again going back to his luck/fate.


LNOS took place in the afternoon. We see Six looking up at the remains of the carrier in the late afternoon/evening. Six, due to having the pack did not have a KO time.

The Covenant called ALL Spartans Demon.

Did chief fight all through those WOUNDED, WITHOUT SHIELDS, and COMPLETELY ALONE Answer is... Nope.
Chief fought through there(Alpha Halo, as the other events are not in book form) with difficulty. Chief, in the exact same situation of Six in lone wolf, WOULD DIE.

It's like you are being a Chief fanboy refusing to accept he isn't godlike.

[Edited on 05.04.2011 3:39 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 3:38 AM PDT

Game on! Lets have some fun. I am the true Tartan Spartan

No I tottaly understand that he isnt godlike....I just beleive that no other Spartan could have done what he did!

Lone wolf (It appears) was far less difficult than what John went through in Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3!

End of the day you can argue and argue......but theres a reason Master Chief is the icon!

saying that..theres probably a post somewhere, arguing that Luigi is Better than Mario....(which he is)

[Edited on 05.04.2011 3:51 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 3:50 AM PDT

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Although I'm sure the very source you cite goes on to say the exact same thing, no matter what one part of canon you want to read from, the Halo Trilogy and the entirety of the true canon necessitate that Master Chief was the "bravest" and most well-rounded, and therefore the best.

[Edited on 05.04.2011 3:56 AM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 3:56 AM PDT
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Honor est praemium virtutis.

Every Spartan was exceptional. People just start to think Chief is MORE exceptional simply because we play as him for 3 games. Sure, any Spartan put in his place would more then likely have accomplished the same things.

The way I see it, is he had two advantages.
Cortana - This is by far his biggest advantage, without her he wouldnt have been able to do as much as he did. She was a much needed tool in his success, his ability to be effective in the field is much more strengthened with her. I can't remember which, but there's a passage in one of the books where they do some testing of her intergration with Chief. Now you could make the arguement that Chief didn't have Cortana for the end of H2 and most of H3, but by then he was fairly attached to Cortana and would have done his best to keep his "promise" to her and not fail.

Secondly is this Luck thing. I believe it's just a compliment to the story. Having this one soldier endure all the trials and make it where his comrades didn't, fairytale stuff.
I also personally think that John, by the time Halo 1 begins, would have more of a drive to succeed. To avenge his Spartan brothers and sisters that died at the hands of the Covenant, and to avenge the destruction of his home Reach.

Anyway that's just my opinion. Agree, disagree, flame, or ignore, do what you must.

  • 05.04.2011 4:18 AM PDT
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Most people probably haven't read the books, it's just that simple.

  • 05.04.2011 4:26 AM PDT

John is undoubtedly the best leader, better than Kurt, regardless of a few training missions, Being a good leader entails assessing the situation at hand and thinking ahead of the enemy.

It is never stated that MC is mediocre or average, just that he wasn't the best, since when does not coming 1st out of 30+ make you mediocre? and hell, the worst spartan would be more effective than many of the "best" ODST's out there.

John has always made good decisions in combat, every action he takes will be planned out to the optimize the success rate of his mission, and secondly to optimize his chance of survival.


  • 05.04.2011 4:34 AM PDT
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What's this Chief is ''jack of all trades'' thing?

Isn't every Spartan ''jack of all trades''?

  • 05.04.2011 4:50 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

-I see someone didn't read ghosts of Onyw well,where it is said the Kurt only won against Blue team because his sixth magical sense that can sniff out traps.That has nothin to do with leadership.

Master Chief was the one who united all spartans in that mission when they were 12,it wasn't Kurt,nor Fred nor Jerome

LNOS took place in the afternoon. We see Six looking up at the remains of the carrier in the late afternoon/evening. Six, due to having the pack did not have a KO time.

The Covenant called ALL Spartans Demon.

Did chief fight all through those WOUNDED, WITHOUT SHIELDS, and COMPLETELY ALONE Answer is... Nope.
Chief fought through there(Alpha Halo, as the other events are not in book form) with difficulty. Chief, in the exact same situation of Six in lone wolf, WOULD DIE.

It's like you are being a Chief fanboy refusing to accept he isn't godlike.


Offcourse,everyone who fought the Flood alone would face difficultes,we are talking about the worsest enemy in the universe,not some terrorist civilians.

Not alone ?Which Halo games did you ever played?Only Reach ,ODST and Wars?Unless you played a different Halo trilogy then the rest of us.

Halo CE:
-Pillar of autumn:Fought alongside Marines,only a few instances where he was alone
-Halo:Fought with Marine squads except the beginning where he defeated 2 full covie squads and a banshee with his AR or pistol
-TOR:Fought with a marine squad,was only alone when he invaded the brigs
-Silent cartographer:Was with 2 Marine squads,
was alone was he went inside the cartographer,singlehandely killing more then 30 ocvies.He was ambsuhed several times by Hunters,but survived without help
-AOTC:Nearly the entire mission alone(excluding when he fought alongside marines in the valleys).
Note:He was usually outnumbered 20 vs 1 and still had won.
-343:Alone,except when he went outside
-Library :alone fought against impossible odds,except when sentinels came in,but that was just a few times
-Two betrayls:Alone,against covies,flood and sentinels.Fought against odds again,not other spartan ever did
-Keyes:Ditto
-MAW: ditto

As you see 70 percent of Halo CE was just alone

And now on Six:
-WC:All the time with Noble
-SB:Ditto
-Nightfall:Was all the time with Jun,on a stealth mission
-TOTS:Ditto,except when he went inside the spire
-LNOS:Ditto
-Exodus:Same,except the beginning
-NA:Was alone when he went inside the reflection building and the hospital,rest was with Marines
-Package:With Noble
-POA:With Emile,except when he fought against a squad grunts,3 zealots and 1 field marshall+protecting the autumn
-LW:Alone,which led to his death

Fighting alone against innies isn't the same as fighting The Covenant alone.Chief fought in a worse situation then Lone Wolf,it's called just the play Halo CE or read the Flood.

It's orinically how you say we can't just Halsey word that John is the best yet she admits he isn't the smartest etc.

  • 05.04.2011 5:09 AM PDT