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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
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Hyper-lethal is a bloody adjective, not a rating. Why do people think it's actually a category?

  • 05.09.2011 2:46 AM PDT

I thought part of Halo Reach was bungie trying to show that the "inferior" and "weaker" guys, spartan IIIs, while not as capable of doing off the wall blow up a million covenant with your fists type things, were still unsung heroes, worthy of praise.

I don't think any S-III has done some of the legendary crazy things a spartan-II has, given the same playing field (mjolnir armor), but even the little guy can make a difference.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 7:07 AM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 7:05 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Wazooty
I thought part of Halo Reach was bungie trying to show that the "inferior" and "weaker" guys, spartan IIIs, while not as capable of doing off the wall blow up a million covenant with your fists type things, were still unsung heroes, worthy of praise.

I don't think any S-III has done some of the legendary crazy things a spartan-II has, given the same playing field (mjolnir armor), but even the little guy can make a difference.


What people don't actually understand is that Spartan III's are as strong and fast as Spartan II's, they just had crappier equipment and less experience. The whole not being able to dual-wield, speed and strength was canon-wise because of the Mark V, the Mark VI was designed to allow the wearer to hit stronger, jump higher and run faster. Why do you think John was faster in Halo 2?

  • 05.09.2011 8:22 AM PDT

John was the only spartan available in Halo 1-3, besides the ones on Onyx, and the Covenant spoke english in 2 and 3 if I do recall. So we could hear "Demon" in their dialog. In Reach they don't speak english so we don't hear them say "Demon" for sure or if they say it all.

  • 05.09.2011 8:44 AM PDT

We’re flawed because we want so much more. We’re ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had.

Yeah, John was just a good leader and very lucky, other then that he was an average Spartan.

  • 05.09.2011 8:51 AM PDT

Posted by: Mochamoo
Hyper-lethal is a bloody adjective, not a rating. Why do people think it's actually a category?


THIS

  • 05.09.2011 9:08 AM PDT


Posted by: Mochamoo
Hyper-lethal is a bloody adjective, not a rating. Why do people think it's actually a category?


Because Six's profile here on Bungie.net describes her as more of a Hyper-Lethal Vector than a soldier. And also Halsey's own words in the "A Spartan will Rise" trailer. The quote is this "Curious, Hyper-Lethal...only one other Spartan has that rating".

So it is some sort of classification, and it doesn't need much definition (though that would be nice) because it's exactly what it sounds like it is and means.

  • 05.09.2011 9:47 AM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa
Um, do you even remember First Strike? He went back to Reach found quite a few Spartans surviving there as well as Dr. Halsey. So he knows he not the last one, and Spartans don't get choked up the same way us normal humans do at loss. Being silent is just Chief's character, he is truly just a man of few words.


Until you procure proof he is silent just "because he is cool" as you so delightfully put it, and there really is no emotional impact on the things he has gone through, that of everything he is done, everything he has seen, everything that has happened to him in his fretfully war-torn life, has had absolutely no emotional impact on him what so ever, I'll take that as your personal opinion. Why that is your opinion I have no idea, because as I recall in Fall of Reach, as Master Chief watches the coffins of his Spartan brothers being jettisoned into space, he feels as though a part of him is being torn away, or something along those lines.

You see. He feels. He feels. He is not devoid of emotion. I am 100% convinced that by the end of Halo 3, he is not the same he was when the war started. I guarantee it. You don't come out of something like that without scars. Every soldier has scars. I'm tired of people treating Master Chief like an inhuman monster, he is not so, he is super-human, super-human, meaning he is still human, and he will still be emotionally effected by the deaths of his SPARTAN brothers, even if in First Strike he found others. It doesn't change the fact of Sam's death, Grace's death, and many others. Their images of them dying will be bored into his skull for the rest of his life. Soldiers are always effected by the deaths of their comrades. Just because he is conditioned, doesn't mean he is devoid of emotions.

Just as a "P.S.", if he were some inhumane killing machine, who's only goal in life was to take life, I would offer him no respect, no human sympathy, no emotional attachment, and I would not care if he were to die, should he die, but I would not give him his due, no matter how much he had done, because what is the point of protecting humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? There is none. You are no longer someone of value, and you are an inferior organism, no matter how many augmentations or genetic enhancements, or "luck" you may have.


I didn't describe him as "cool" in that post, I merely said that he is truly a man of few words, I was referring to it with finality, not that it made him cool. And I never said that he was devoid of emotions or unaffected by them. What I said was that Spartans are not affected the same way.

And also, if you remember, that event in TFoR (the funeral for the deceased washouts) that was the first time that any Spartan had died and the first time he had really encountered death, at least of people close to him anyway. And the first wounding with something like that is always the worst, but as time goes on you become calloused to it. Ask any soldier, the longer you are one and around death, the less affects you, yes you'll be saddened by the death of someone close, but it will not be as raw the more it happens. And yes, people change from experiencing war, but I think you are grossly overestimating the change that would occur in someone like a Spartan. They experience emotion, but they were taught to push a lot of it aside, that's part of what made them so affective

Yes, Spartans are still human beings, but they are also very inhuman. The Spartan training strips them of a lot of their humanity.

  • 05.09.2011 9:59 AM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa
Um, do you even remember First Strike? He went back to Reach found quite a few Spartans surviving there as well as Dr. Halsey. So he knows he not the last one, and Spartans don't get choked up the same way us normal humans do at loss. Being silent is just Chief's character, he is truly just a man of few words.


Until you procure proof he is silent just "because he is cool" as you so delightfully put it, and there really is no emotional impact on the things he has gone through, that of everything he is done, everything he has seen, everything that has happened to him in his fretfully war-torn life, has had absolutely no emotional impact on him what so ever, I'll take that as your personal opinion. Why that is your opinion I have no idea, because as I recall in Fall of Reach, as Master Chief watches the coffins of his Spartan brothers being jettisoned into space, he feels as though a part of him is being torn away, or something along those lines.

You see. He feels. He feels. He is not devoid of emotion. I am 100% convinced that by the end of Halo 3, he is not the same he was when the war started. I guarantee it. You don't come out of something like that without scars. Every soldier has scars. I'm tired of people treating Master Chief like an inhuman monster, he is not so, he is super-human, super-human, meaning he is still human, and he will still be emotionally effected by the deaths of his SPARTAN brothers, even if in First Strike he found others. It doesn't change the fact of Sam's death, Grace's death, and many others. Their images of them dying will be bored into his skull for the rest of his life. Soldiers are always effected by the deaths of their comrades. Just because he is conditioned, doesn't mean he is devoid of emotions.

Just as a "P.S.", if he were some inhumane killing machine, who's only goal in life was to take life, I would offer him no respect, no human sympathy, no emotional attachment, and I would not care if he were to die, should he die, but I would not give him his due, no matter how much he had done, because what is the point of protecting humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? There is none. You are no longer someone of value, and you are an inferior organism, no matter how many augmentations or genetic enhancements, or "luck" you may have.


I didn't describe him as "cool" in that post, I merely said that he is truly a man of few words, I was referring to it with finality, not that it made him cool. And I never said that he was devoid of emotions or unaffected by them. What I said was that Spartans are not affected the same way.

And also, if you remember, that event in TFoR (the funeral for the deceased washouts) that was the first time that any Spartan had died and the first time he had really encountered death, at least of people close to him anyway. And the first wounding with something like that is always the worst, but as time goes on you become calloused to it. Ask any soldier, the longer you are one and around death, the less affects you, yes you'll be saddened by the death of someone close, but it will not be as raw the more it happens. And yes, people change from experiencing war, but I think you are grossly overestimating the change that would occur in someone like a Spartan. They experience emotion, but they were taught to push a lot of it aside, that's part of what made them so affective

Yes, Spartans are still human beings, but they are also very inhuman. The Spartan training strips them of a lot of their humanity.


I don't believe that. I believe that it did its job of preparing them for insurrectionists, but could they really have been prepared for the Covenant?

When you are fighting for something, you have to have a degree of emotional attachment to it. To say Master Chief had no feelings towards the people he was saving is... well, stupid. No offense. And it is also so to say that he had no personality changes after watching a majority of his SPARTAN brethren die. No matter how much you are around death, if you suddenly saw somebody close to you die, you can't say you wouldn't have thoughts of revenge, anger, or sadness.

Again, what is the point of defending humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? All of your efforts and victories become in vain. Thus, I don't believe he lost most of his humanity. Surely BUNGIE wouldn't be that dense.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 8:11 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 8:10 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

I can only say this, Gray Fox from Metal Gear would wipe the floor with any Spartan or member of the Covenant. He is at least 500 times stronger than any Spartan (I'm not exaggerating), can dodge bullets and I'm pretty sure he could give Kelly a run for her money. Lol.

  • 05.12.2011 3:49 PM PDT

Okay, I'm going to end this thread.

The reason MC is the best is because he is ALIVE, while most other spartans are DEAD. Don't give me this coward bull-blam!-, MC was right there up in the action. Who stopped the flood twice? MC. Who finished off the covies? MC. 6 was an awesome spartan and very impressive for a spartan III, but he could not out perform MC. John was spartan # 1

  • 05.12.2011 6:06 PM PDT
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Luck, luck, LUCK! why does no one realize the amount his luck his stressed, it's even mentioned in the beginning of Halo 3!

  • 05.12.2011 6:15 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Chas the Amoeba
Okay, I'm going to end this thread.

The reason MC is the best is because he is ALIVE, while most other spartans are DEAD. Don't give me this coward bull-blam!-, MC was right there up in the action. Who stopped the flood twice? MC. Who finished off the covies? MC. 6 was an awesome spartan and very impressive for a spartan III, but he could not out perform MC. John was spartan # 1


John didn't defeat the Flood and the Covenant is dead yet.

  • 05.12.2011 6:23 PM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa
Um, do you even remember First Strike? He went back to Reach found quite a few Spartans surviving there as well as Dr. Halsey. So he knows he not the last one, and Spartans don't get choked up the same way us normal humans do at loss. Being silent is just Chief's character, he is truly just a man of few words.


Until you procure proof he is silent just "because he is cool" as you so delightfully put it, and there really is no emotional impact on the things he has gone through, that of everything he is done, everything he has seen, everything that has happened to him in his fretfully war-torn life, has had absolutely no emotional impact on him what so ever, I'll take that as your personal opinion. Why that is your opinion I have no idea, because as I recall in Fall of Reach, as Master Chief watches the coffins of his Spartan brothers being jettisoned into space, he feels as though a part of him is being torn away, or something along those lines.

You see. He feels. He feels. He is not devoid of emotion. I am 100% convinced that by the end of Halo 3, he is not the same he was when the war started. I guarantee it. You don't come out of something like that without scars. Every soldier has scars. I'm tired of people treating Master Chief like an inhuman monster, he is not so, he is super-human, super-human, meaning he is still human, and he will still be emotionally effected by the deaths of his SPARTAN brothers, even if in First Strike he found others. It doesn't change the fact of Sam's death, Grace's death, and many others. Their images of them dying will be bored into his skull for the rest of his life. Soldiers are always effected by the deaths of their comrades. Just because he is conditioned, doesn't mean he is devoid of emotions.

Just as a "P.S.", if he were some inhumane killing machine, who's only goal in life was to take life, I would offer him no respect, no human sympathy, no emotional attachment, and I would not care if he were to die, should he die, but I would not give him his due, no matter how much he had done, because what is the point of protecting humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? There is none. You are no longer someone of value, and you are an inferior organism, no matter how many augmentations or genetic enhancements, or "luck" you may have.


I didn't describe him as "cool" in that post, I merely said that he is truly a man of few words, I was referring to it with finality, not that it made him cool. And I never said that he was devoid of emotions or unaffected by them. What I said was that Spartans are not affected the same way.

And also, if you remember, that event in TFoR (the funeral for the deceased washouts) that was the first time that any Spartan had died and the first time he had really encountered death, at least of people close to him anyway. And the first wounding with something like that is always the worst, but as time goes on you become calloused to it. Ask any soldier, the longer you are one and around death, the less affects you, yes you'll be saddened by the death of someone close, but it will not be as raw the more it happens. And yes, people change from experiencing war, but I think you are grossly overestimating the change that would occur in someone like a Spartan. They experience emotion, but they were taught to push a lot of it aside, that's part of what made them so affective

Yes, Spartans are still human beings, but they are also very inhuman. The Spartan training strips them of a lot of their humanity.


I don't believe that. I believe that it did its job of preparing them for insurrectionists, but could they really have been prepared for the Covenant?

When you are fighting for something, you have to have a degree of emotional attachment to it. To say Master Chief had no feelings towards the people he was saving is... well, stupid. No offense. And it is also so to say that he had no personality changes after watching a majority of his SPARTAN brethren die. No matter how much you are around death, if you suddenly saw somebody close to you die, you can't say you wouldn't have thoughts of revenge, anger, or sadness.

Again, what is the point of defending humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? All of your efforts and victories become in vain. Thus, I don't believe he lost most of his humanity. Surely BUNGIE wouldn't be that dense.


Fighting will have about the same affect on emotions, no matter what the enemy. Fighting the Covenant is not all that different from fighting other Humans emotionally, at least in regards to the Spartans.

I'm not saying he doesn't have emotions, what I'm saying is that he keeps his emotions restrained, he will feel sorrow, anger, fear, whatever, but he won't let it interfere with the mission and task at hand, nor would any Spartan.

  • 05.12.2011 6:24 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa
Um, do you even remember First Strike? He went back to Reach found quite a few Spartans surviving there as well as Dr. Halsey. So he knows he not the last one, and Spartans don't get choked up the same way us normal humans do at loss. Being silent is just Chief's character, he is truly just a man of few words.


Until you procure proof he is silent just "because he is cool" as you so delightfully put it, and there really is no emotional impact on the things he has gone through, that of everything he is done, everything he has seen, everything that has happened to him in his fretfully war-torn life, has had absolutely no emotional impact on him what so ever, I'll take that as your personal opinion. Why that is your opinion I have no idea, because as I recall in Fall of Reach, as Master Chief watches the coffins of his Spartan brothers being jettisoned into space, he feels as though a part of him is being torn away, or something along those lines.

You see. He feels. He feels. He is not devoid of emotion. I am 100% convinced that by the end of Halo 3, he is not the same he was when the war started. I guarantee it. You don't come out of something like that without scars. Every soldier has scars. I'm tired of people treating Master Chief like an inhuman monster, he is not so, he is super-human, super-human, meaning he is still human, and he will still be emotionally effected by the deaths of his SPARTAN brothers, even if in First Strike he found others. It doesn't change the fact of Sam's death, Grace's death, and many others. Their images of them dying will be bored into his skull for the rest of his life. Soldiers are always effected by the deaths of their comrades. Just because he is conditioned, doesn't mean he is devoid of emotions.

Just as a "P.S.", if he were some inhumane killing machine, who's only goal in life was to take life, I would offer him no respect, no human sympathy, no emotional attachment, and I would not care if he were to die, should he die, but I would not give him his due, no matter how much he had done, because what is the point of protecting humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? There is none. You are no longer someone of value, and you are an inferior organism, no matter how many augmentations or genetic enhancements, or "luck" you may have.


I didn't describe him as "cool" in that post, I merely said that he is truly a man of few words, I was referring to it with finality, not that it made him cool. And I never said that he was devoid of emotions or unaffected by them. What I said was that Spartans are not affected the same way.

And also, if you remember, that event in TFoR (the funeral for the deceased washouts) that was the first time that any Spartan had died and the first time he had really encountered death, at least of people close to him anyway. And the first wounding with something like that is always the worst, but as time goes on you become calloused to it. Ask any soldier, the longer you are one and around death, the less affects you, yes you'll be saddened by the death of someone close, but it will not be as raw the more it happens. And yes, people change from experiencing war, but I think you are grossly overestimating the change that would occur in someone like a Spartan. They experience emotion, but they were taught to push a lot of it aside, that's part of what made them so affective

Yes, Spartans are still human beings, but they are also very inhuman. The Spartan training strips them of a lot of their humanity.


I don't believe that. I believe that it did its job of preparing them for insurrectionists, but could they really have been prepared for the Covenant?

When you are fighting for something, you have to have a degree of emotional attachment to it. To say Master Chief had no feelings towards the people he was saving is... well, stupid. No offense. And it is also so to say that he had no personality changes after watching a majority of his SPARTAN brethren die. No matter how much you are around death, if you suddenly saw somebody close to you die, you can't say you wouldn't have thoughts of revenge, anger, or sadness.

Again, what is the point of defending humanity if you lose your humanity in the process? All of your efforts and victories become in vain. Thus, I don't believe he lost most of his humanity. Surely BUNGIE wouldn't be that dense.


Fighting will have about the same affect on emotions, no matter what the enemy. Fighting the Covenant is not all that different from fighting other Humans emotionally, at least in regards to the Spartans.

I'm not saying he doesn't have emotions, what I'm saying is that he keeps his emotions restrained, he will feel sorrow, anger, fear, whatever, but he won't let it interfere with the mission and task at hand, nor would any Spartan.


I'm not saying he would, but I'm saying he is more human than you think. :)

I surely that Halsey bored into the SPARTANS' heads harder than any training is how important the lives they were fighting for were, and that they would be fighting, and dying, for a cause greater than any of them could dream.

And John was a good SPARTAN, yes, but he wasn't perfect, he had many flaws, and I'm positive he has scars, physically and emotionally.

  • 05.13.2011 8:25 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Chas the Amoeba
Okay, I'm going to end this thread.

The reason MC is the best is because he is ALIVE, while most other spartans are DEAD. Don't give me this coward bull-blam!-, MC was right there up in the action. Who stopped the flood twice? MC. Who finished off the covies? MC. 6 was an awesome spartan and very impressive for a spartan III, but he could not out perform MC. John was spartan # 1


John didn't defeat the Flood and the Covenant is dead yet.


True. The Flood are obviously going to find another way to get to Earth, and the Covenant, well we still have their homeworlds. ;)

I think Bungie might be setting up for an RPG, or 343. That would be kickass!

  • 05.13.2011 8:27 PM PDT

As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.

  • 05.14.2011 1:48 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Kalawaki
As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.


Fred was good at everything, seeing how he came in second at every exercise.

  • 05.14.2011 1:51 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: Kalawaki
As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.


Fred was good at everything, seeing how he came in second at every exercise.
He clearly wasn't very good at being lucky.

  • 05.14.2011 1:53 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: Kalawaki
As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.


Fred was good at everything, seeing how he came in second at every exercise.
He clearly wasn't very good at being lucky.

Bear in mind though, that he came in second by his own choice, because he didn't liked the attention.

  • 05.14.2011 1:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: Kalawaki
As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.


Fred was good at everything, seeing how he came in second at every exercise.
He clearly wasn't very good at being lucky.


Excuse me, but we're looking at this in a scientific, concrete, non-bull-blam!- sorta way. Luck has none of those characteristics. You cannot rule in something like 'luck' in a scientific, militaristic environment. That is how we're looking at the situation, and thus, we will only look at things that are 'hard' and 'concrete', none of that 'luck' sillyness, please.


[Edited on 05.14.2011 11:23 PM PDT]

  • 05.14.2011 11:23 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Don't forget Luck

  • 05.14.2011 11:56 PM PDT

Chief was the one with most luck.

He might not have been the fastest, the best sniper, the best of the best leader, or the biggest one of them all....but luck gets you further than those qualities do.

Look at all the other Spartans: all excell in 1 specific area...most of them died in situations where Chief survived.

Also: I think Chief might have been the boldest of them all. There are multiple situations in the Halo saga in which Scarabs are being fought for instance....but NEVER by a single Spartan.
Litterally the only Spartan we know of, to have killed multiple Scarabs on his own, and walking out alive is the Chief.

Also: Halsey DOES mention several times that there was one Spartan that stood head and shoulders over the rest of the Spartans: John 117...not being the best at a specific thing, but being "special" and "lucky".

EDIT:
And lets not forget what definatly made Chief the best Spartan of them all: Cortana.

[Edited on 05.15.2011 2:49 AM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 2:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: Kalawaki
As horrible as it is, The Chief's "Luck" is considered canon.

He's a walking lucky charm. His armor clearly gets its green look because it was painted that way with ground-up four leaf clovers or something.

No other spartan is/was lucky. Therefore no other spartan would do what he did and survive.

Alternatively, all of the other spartans were only really good at one thing, while the master chief was average at everything, as opposed to being good at one thing and sucking at another thing.


Fred was good at everything, seeing how he came in second at every exercise.
He clearly wasn't very good at being lucky.


What are you talking about?

  • 05.15.2011 4:25 AM PDT
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Got another Bungie.net account. Was a hounorable member but i used this one as it is linked to my Gamertag.

Yes but John had a slighty better average and he was the bravest and luckiesy. Each Spartan has thier own unigue skill which they could perform fawlessly, like a dumb AI, but John could perform everything flawlessly, like Cortana.

  • 05.15.2011 4:35 AM PDT