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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
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It's Hazard Time

`John had a great deal of luck that made him overcome impossible ods, and b*lls of steel (Chgief = Duke, we all know it).

Noble 6 was a watered down prototype, that did little or nothing to earn a hyper lethal rating, unless they were just messing around. Not to mention he was throughout the Reach mission encouraged to "lone wolf" even if that's the opposite of what the obviously (bad) leader told him.

  • 05.15.2011 5:19 AM PDT

Luck is a pretty absurd way to put it.

Master Chief had to have been the best Spartan, because otherwise, he would have died in all of the other situations as the other Spartans did. (I'm not saying that he was the fastest or strongest)

[Edited on 05.15.2011 7:06 AM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 7:06 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Luck is a pretty absurd way to put it.

Master Chief had to have been the best Spartan, because otherwise, he would have died in all of the other situations as the other Spartans did. (I'm not saying that he was the fastest or strongest)

The point is that practically any other Spartan could have done what e did if they had Cortana, possibly even better. For example, Fred was the "second best", however John notes that he had the potential to be the best in almost every regard, and Linda was the only Spartan II who was a true Lone Wolf, she would have been more comfortable fighting alone as opposed to John who felt a severe disadvantage without his team.

  • 05.15.2011 7:12 AM PDT


Posted by: Grumbledock
Noble 6 was a watered down prototype, that did little or nothing to earn a hyper lethal rating, unless they were just messing around. Not to mention he was throughout the Reach mission encouraged to "lone wolf" even if that's the opposite of what the obviously (bad) leader told him.


Yay for mindless hate against Six?

  • 05.15.2011 7:34 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Grumbledock
Noble 6 was a watered down prototype, that did little or nothing to earn a hyper lethal rating, unless they were just messing around. Not to mention he was throughout the Reach mission encouraged to "lone wolf" even if that's the opposite of what the obviously (bad) leader told him.


Yay for mindless hate against Six?

Agreed.

  • 05.15.2011 7:36 AM PDT

alright, I just wanna put this out there after reading a few replys saying people only root for the chief because we played him in 3 games

TO THAT i wanna say halo 1 2 and 3 were i think the best of the halo series(funnest to play i mean) and they got much longer support from the fans then reach did by far!

and im fully aware halos 1 2 and 3 played differently then reach but since im a hopeless fanboy and think the other spartans pail in comparison to john

in my mind the halo series is much more... legendary if john, the best spartan, single handidly ended a war that raged on so furiously that every other spartan(dont point this out, im aware without needing it said, john = NOT really the last spartan), even partnered up with other spartans(eg, team N6), died without even really putting a dent in the covenants fleets

ME = FANBOY
JOHN = BETTER THEN EVERY OTHER SPARTAN
LUIGI = BETTER THEN MARIO
KNUCKLES = BETTER THEN SONIC

power to the blind followers!!!

  • 05.15.2011 9:00 AM PDT

Pwning noobs since November 15th 2001

there are 2 different types of spartans this type http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program

master chief is the last one, jorge was one too.

and this type
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-III_Program
noble six is one

basically spartan 2's kick spartan 3's asses

[Edited on 05.15.2011 11:08 AM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 11:07 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Grumbledock
`John had a great deal of luck that made him overcome impossible ods, and b*lls of steel (Chgief = Duke, we all know it).

Noble 6 was a watered down prototype, that did little or nothing to earn a hyper lethal rating, unless they were just messing around. Not to mention he was throughout the Reach mission encouraged to "lone wolf" even if that's the opposite of what the obviously (bad) leader told him.

Dismantling rebel and insurrectionist groups, having knowledge on the shield strength of Zealots showing he has fought them before Reach, and being trained to pilot a Sabre is nothing?

Are you serious?

  • 05.15.2011 11:49 AM PDT

john had cortana. lucky guy. flood definitely would have won without cortana doing so much damn work. John just pulled the trigger a bunch, in my opinion

  • 05.15.2011 11:52 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: NEXUS WARRI0R
there are 2 different types of spartans this type http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program

master chief is the last one, jorge was one too.

and this type
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-III_Program
noble six is one

basically spartan 2's kick spartan 3's asses

No.

  • 05.15.2011 11:52 AM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: NEXUS WARRI0R
there are 2 different types of spartans this type http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program

master chief is the last one, jorge was one too.

and this type
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-III_Program
noble six is one

basically spartan 2's kick spartan 3's asses

No.


actually, in general, yes.
S-II's had MUCH better armor though, that would be the number one reason (NOBLE team was an exception). your average S-III wearing SPI armor wouldn't have much of a chance against a seasoned S-II wearing MJOLNIR.

also their augmentations were "weaker but with a higher survival rate"

[Edited on 05.15.2011 11:58 AM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 11:54 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: NEXUS WARRI0R
there are 2 different types of spartans this type http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program

master chief is the last one, jorge was one too.

and this type
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-III_Program
noble six is one

basically spartan 2's kick spartan 3's asses

No.


actually, in general, yes.
S-II's had MUCH better armor though, that would be the number one reason. your average S-III wearing SPI armor wouldn't have much of a chance against a seasoned S-II wearing MJOLNIR

So because they were given SPI they were overall worse fighters? I agree SPI is crap, but if you give a S-III MJOLNIR, the differences would vanish.

  • 05.15.2011 11:56 AM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: NEXUS WARRI0R
there are 2 different types of spartans this type http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program

master chief is the last one, jorge was one too.

and this type
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-III_Program
noble six is one

basically spartan 2's kick spartan 3's asses

No.


actually, in general, yes.
S-II's had MUCH better armor though, that would be the number one reason. your average S-III wearing SPI armor wouldn't have much of a chance against a seasoned S-II wearing MJOLNIR

So because they were given SPI they were overall worse fighters? I agree SPI is crap, but if you give a S-III MJOLNIR, the differences would vanish.

yup, i pretty much agree with that. i mean, it says somewhere that their augmentations might have been slightly weaker, but I agree that if you gave them the same armor it would be a pretty even fight.

I just like S-II's more :P

[Edited on 05.15.2011 12:00 PM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 11:59 AM PDT

Lol Son of Mountains, you are basically saying a knight in full armor can kill a knight in leather armor.

Is that truly a surprise? Now give them both full armor and it's an even match.

Same thing with the Spartans.

Edit: Missed your post.

Well, the S3's only didn't share one augmentation the S2's got, which increased muscle and skeletal growth. so I guess in that manner you could say they are slightly weaker.

[Edited on 05.15.2011 12:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 12:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
yup, i pretty much agree with that. i mean, it says somewhere that their augmentations might have been slightly weaker, but I agree that if you gave them the same armor it would be a pretty even fight.

I just like S-II's more :P

There augmentations were arguably better. They did the same thing to make the Spartan-IIs but also made them harder to take down, and were safer to administer.

[Edited on 05.15.2011 12:02 PM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 12:02 PM PDT

Heero Yuy: My enemies are those who try to kill me and those who stand in my way.

Dekar: I hate to brag, but my skills with the sword are immortal.

I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

  • 05.15.2011 12:08 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/

  • 05.15.2011 12:09 PM PDT

Heero Yuy: My enemies are those who try to kill me and those who stand in my way.

Dekar: I hate to brag, but my skills with the sword are immortal.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

  • 05.15.2011 12:12 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: DekarLawrencium

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

He got ambushed by rebels and three Grunts and the Flood. I'll grant you the Flood, but people want to complain about Emile's lack of situational awareness, but Chief lacks it too.

  • 05.15.2011 12:13 PM PDT

Heero Yuy: My enemies are those who try to kill me and those who stand in my way.

Dekar: I hate to brag, but my skills with the sword are immortal.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

He got ambushed by rebels and three Grunts and the Flood. I'll grant you the Flood, but people want to complain about Emile's lack of situational awareness, but Chief lacks it too.


You get ambushed sometimes in war; it's the most chaotic of all situations except the roiling furnace in the core of a star. The question is how you react to that ambush that defines whether you are great or whether you are dead.

  • 05.15.2011 12:15 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

He got ambushed by rebels and three Grunts and the Flood. I'll grant you the Flood, but people want to complain about Emile's lack of situational awareness, but Chief lacks it too.


it's easy to set up an ambush on someone when they're wandering through your territory with very little intel. were any of the ambushes on MC successful? no, he made it out every time. emile got stabbed in the back by a big stinkin elite!

[Edited on 05.15.2011 12:18 PM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 12:17 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

He got ambushed by rebels and three Grunts and the Flood. I'll grant you the Flood, but people want to complain about Emile's lack of situational awareness, but Chief lacks it too.


it's easy to set up an ambush on someone when they're wandering through your territory with very little intel. were any of the ambushes on MC successful? no, he made it out every time. emile got stabbed in the back by a big stinkin elite!

Were it not for Kurt, Chief wouldn't have gotten out of the Innie ambush. Heck, Kurt warned him beforehand that something didn't feel right, but Chief was like "I got this."

Obviously not.

  • 05.15.2011 12:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


I would say that if you were surrounded by LEGIONS of alien warriors, you are bound to be ambushed every once in a while, no matter how good you are, even if you had prescience.

He got ambushed by rebels and three Grunts and the Flood. I'll grant you the Flood, but people want to complain about Emile's lack of situational awareness, but Chief lacks it too.


it's easy to set up an ambush on someone when they're wandering through your territory with very little intel. were any of the ambushes on MC successful? no, he made it out every time. emile got stabbed in the back by a big stinkin elite!


Um, Elites are some of the deadliest enemies a SPARTAN could fight. Elites are bad mofo's, and I see you deliberately left out the fact it was a Zealot that killed him, and the fact he killed it as well, out of your blind admiration for Master Chief, of course you omit any facts that point to the fact that every single SPARTAN in Noble Team could match Master Chief in a fight, if not necessarily win. This is a blatant fact that you canNOT ignore, no matter how hard you try.

Posted by:Duardo
Don't forget Luck


Like I said, in a post directly above yours, I don't consider 'luck' a reasonable argument, because 'luck' is a superstitious, non-physical and non-applicable element in determining his skills. We can look at his training, his armor, his weapons, augmentations, etc, because these are all physical 'real' things. Luck is not a 'real' thing, you can't base a fight off of luck. I look at Master Chief and Noble Six, and take into consideration things like their armor, weapons, background and training. Prior to Reach, Master Chief, with a team, fought in several ground engagements against Insurrectionists. Six, broke entire armies... by himself. Thus, I come to the conclusion that, at the time of Reach, Noble Six is the better SPARTAN.

Not taking into consideration silly 'questionable', 'superstitious' things like 'luck'.

  • 05.15.2011 3:50 PM PDT

I recall from The Fall of Reach that he was good at winning in any situation, with exceptional leadership skills and just an overall standout candidate.

Others were better at individual things, but not even Kurt could lead ops like him.

  • 05.15.2011 5:55 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: DekarLawrencium
I would say, from my experiences in life, that quantifiable attributes do not completely define how skilled you are at anything. There is always that 'something' that some people are able to do that defies expectations and is unable to be measured. That's what Halsey meant by 'luck.' She saw that John had the spark of insight that led him to the right conclusion on how to get through a multitude of desperate situations. You don't need to be the smartest, the strongest or the fastest to excel; you just need that drive. Chief had that drive; Halsey could see it in his eyes, hear it in his speech and see it in his every action. That's why Kurt was second-best, because he lacked John's incorrigible determination to always win, excel and exceed.

John also had the insight to get ambushed pretty frequently...

:/


Fred, Kelly, and Linda all fell into the Innie trap too...it wasn't just Chief. I don't see why it happening to Chief automatically makes him any less than the other three who also fell for the same trap. Even the best make mistakes sometimes, but one mistake (no matter how big) does not mean one is not the best...and as far as John's military career has been told in the story that was the only instance of him ever being taken in an ambush.

  • 05.15.2011 7:52 PM PDT