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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?


Posted by: switch 104 sv
All of the Spartans were the best at everything. Their so called "specialities" were of a fractional difference compared to their piers, but a phenomenal difference to a standard human. When people say the Chief is "average" it is relative to the Spartans. The Spartans themselves are super human at all and every task and ability required of a soldier. Any single Spartan is a master of any weapon and any tactic. That is their sole purpose. They are the ultimate soldiers.
The fact that Kelly is faster, Linda is a better marksman etc. does not detract from the fact that all Spartans are masters of all things war. The Chief being "average" among the Spartans doesn't mean he isn't awesome, more that he has no specific attribute that he excels in more than the rest. That is what people mean when they say he isn't the "best" Spartan, because realistically there is no "best Spartan". Put any other Spartan in the Chief's shoes and the end result would probably have been the same.

But among any data set there should be variability no? If we use the Spartans as our sample set wouldn't their be variablity inevitably. I understand they've been trained to be the best at everything but if the variablity is as small as you're saying, really I'd argue, as you kinda did at the end there, that no one Spartan is better then any other. They are all basically replicas of one another and just happen to have their preferences on what roles they like to take on the battlefield. Any "specialty" is so minute that its really insignificant.

  • 05.04.2011 8:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Chas the Amoeba
*Cough* he's alive *Cough*


*cough* So is the coward of that squad which has been in battle five times *cough*

  • 05.04.2011 8:48 PM PDT

*cough* John actually fought *cough*

  • 05.04.2011 8:49 PM PDT

*cough* John is one of several Spartans who are still alive, making the fact he is still alive not quite as spectacular *cough*

They're just all in various stages of being busy/lost.

Really, the fact that John is still alive just means he is likely above the average many people want to peg him as. It doesn't make him the best.

[Edited on 05.04.2011 9:02 PM PDT]

  • 05.04.2011 9:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Chas the Amoeba
*cough* John actually fought *cough*


Regardless, being alive means nothing when used just as that.

The coward could fight at the start, then run like hell and live each battle. Does that make him the best? Your reply will most likely be "No way!"

  • 05.04.2011 9:04 PM PDT

Keeno, just saying, it sounds like you want passionate sex with Master Chief daily...

Oh, and pulling the weak as hell argument "Name another Spartan that has done what Chief has?". Yep, you are what I call a blind, stupid, chief fanboy.

No spartan has done that because none got the chance. Because Chief was the primary character.

  • 05.04.2011 9:23 PM PDT

Posted by: keeno 111
Chief is the best spartan, name a spartan that has achieved more then the chief?
You can't because none of them have. You base you theroys on little petty things in the book that says kelly runs faster or linda snipes better...but how much better? ovbiously not much.

Master chief is godlike especially from a normal human perspective he does things that are so freakishly unhuman you're arguments are not plausible.

You're missing the point. The question that is asked is: Is Chief really spectacular or could other Spartans done the same job is his place? Did he just happen to get lucky and get the most important missions of the war? You can't use his accomplishments as an argument because we don't know how the other Spartans would have done.

Clearly he was above average because he was able to complete those missions but could other Spartans have as well had they been in his place?

Let's chill with the trolling btw.

  • 05.04.2011 9:38 PM PDT
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This, at least to me, is pretty damn exceptional.

While one could argue it was all "Luck", that took a lot of skill IMHO.

  • 05.04.2011 10:19 PM PDT


Posted by: C0MIC RELIEF
This, at least to me, is pretty damn exceptional.

While one could argue it was all "Luck", that took a lot of skill IMHO.


Not really...

That was more of 100% luck and two longsword pilots helping him out by bombing the hull open.

  • 05.04.2011 10:37 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
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Posted by: keeno 111


Protip: If you can't debate without insulting someone, don't bother debating.


Posted by: CowPieSky32
could other Spartans have as well had they been in his place?


I'm going to use the remaining S-IIs as an example, since they managed to survive the war but yes. I do believe Fred, Linda or Kelly would have survived if they were given the same chances and the same equipment as the Chief. How they went about those objectives might have been different but I do believe the end result would be the same.

And before anybody decides to spout the whole "specialty" crap, they'd adapt to their situation. Just like Chief did.

And just Six's sake, I think 312 could have done the same, if not slightly better, just because of his past as a lone wolf. He's use to it.

  • 05.04.2011 10:43 PM PDT

In the modern Royal Marines, as an officer you have to be able to do everything your troops can do, and more, and do it better.

Of course, you'll never be able to out-shoot the sniper, or come close to being able to command an armoured batallion anywhere as good as the guy who's spent his entire career driving his tank about.
As far as general duties go though, you have to be bloody special.

MC would never have been chosen as leader if he couldn't out-perform his peers in most situations, minus their specialities.
MCs speciality is his luck, or ability to see things that others can't, similar to Kurts sixth sense, albiet with a different purpose.
Not saying he's godlike or a billionty times better,just that he, like any SPARTAN is seriously good as what he does.



I fail to see how anyone can argue with this logic.

  • 05.05.2011 12:44 AM PDT

I think this thread needs a serious dose of cough medicine.

John isn't an exceptional Spartan he is the average all rounder. Adaptable. Possibly making him the ideal Spartan for the job he was tasked with.

Not the best, but the most suited to the job.

  • 05.05.2011 4:56 AM PDT


Posted by: keeno 111
No they couldn't.


Zero proof no other Spartan could not do what Chief did.

  • 05.05.2011 4:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: keeno 111
No they couldn't.


Zero proof no other Spartan could not do what Chief did.


The only thing we can say with certainty is no other Spartan had the upgraded neural interface.

  • 05.05.2011 5:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Onyx81
That scene is incredibly stupid. John would take the sword and rush with his AR in the other hand, outclassing that elite.


How is that scene stupid, his assault rifle was EMPTY.
Sorry. I must have not heard the *click*.

  • 05.05.2011 5:12 AM PDT


Posted by: Shellhead
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: keeno 111
No they couldn't.


Zero proof no other Spartan could not do what Chief did.


The only thing we can say with certainty is no other Spartan had the upgraded neural interface.


That was described. We never are outright told they got mark V either but we know it's so.

We also don't know if the upgraded neural interface is solely for the AI compatibility, or if it's for Mark V in general.

  • 05.05.2011 5:13 AM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Shellhead
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: keeno 111
No they couldn't.


Zero proof no other Spartan could not do what Chief did.


The only thing we can say with certainty is no other Spartan had the upgraded neural interface.


That was described. We never are outright told they got mark V either but we know it's so.

We also don't know if the upgraded neural interface is solely for the AI compatibility, or if it's for Mark V in general.


Then that begs the question why wasn't Cortana carried in N6's Armor, it would've improved his/her combat capabilities.

  • 05.05.2011 5:23 AM PDT

"The Emperor Protects"
"Suffer Not To Let The Unclean Live"

He is pretty exceptional though because he is, or at least in my opinion, more cunning than the other SPARTAN-IIs not to mention he adapted rather well to action on his own rather than as a team, a scenario for which all SPARTANs were trained, Not to mention he was selected by Halsey and Cortana for his leadership skills and not to mention his "luck"
I think when you factor all of this together while he may not be the god some people portray him as he is still a rather exceptional SPARTAN.

  • 05.05.2011 6:57 AM PDT


Doubt it, Kelly could outrun him any day, Linda could outsnipe him, Kurt could out-lead him

He has been shown to run faster then Kelly in training. Also he took leadership during a mission with the other Spartans when they were younger and he naturally took charge, did Kurt? No, John did, meaning he is a natrual leader. Kurt may also have strong leadership qualities but it doesn't mean he is better then John (nor John better then Kurt but he did prove himself a great leader that day). He has done so much for the cause of humanity that he may aswell be a symbol to every human of what a Spartan is capable of! Also he is a very lucky Spartan! He has been seen doing some pretty amazing things that can only be down to Luck and Skill. To top it all off he has managed to survive long enough to acquire Mk VI armour which makes him even more deadly whilst at the same time having Cortana pick him (out of all the others she could of picked) and lets face it, having a smart AI in your armour is a huge advantage. Why would she pick him if she did not think he was worth the effort?

I have no doubt other Spartans could do what he did but he is MORE then just avarage! It's ridiculous to even suggest he is! Put all of what I said together and it shows that he isn't just a jack of all trades but someone that can't be called 'avarage' even by Spartan standards.

I don't love Master Chief like some people I've seen on this post but I can not deny that out of all the spartans he is the most recognised for his part in the war and how lucky/skilled he is.

  • 05.05.2011 7:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Surperion93

Doubt it, Kelly could outrun him any day, Linda could outsnipe him, Kurt could out-lead him

He has been shown to run faster then Kelly in training. Also he took leadership during a mission with the other Spartans when they were younger and he naturally took charge, did Kurt? No, John did, meaning he is a natrual leader. Kurt may also have strong leadership qualities but it doesn't mean he is better then John (nor John better then Kurt but he did prove himself a great leader that day). He has done so much for the cause of humanity that he may aswell be a symbol to every human of what a Spartan is capable of! Also he is a very lucky Spartan! He has been seen doing some pretty amazing things that can only be down to Luck and Skill. To top it all off he has managed to survive long enough to acquire Mk VI armour which makes him even more deadly whilst at the same time having Cortana pick him (out of all the others she could of picked) and lets face it, having a smart AI in your armour is a huge advantage. Why would she pick him if she did not think he was worth the effort?

I have no doubt other Spartans could do what he did but he is MORE then just avarage! It's ridiculous to even suggest he is! Put all of what I said together and it shows that he isn't just a jack of all trades but someone that can't be called 'avarage' even by Spartan standards.

I don't love Master Chief like some people I've seen on this post but I can not deny that out of all the spartans he is the most recognised for his part in the war and how lucky/skilled he is.



He wasn't faster then Kelly at ANY point during training. If you are talking to the first playground episode that is because he was a dumbass and ditched his team.

You basically said "Master Chief is an 'average' Spartan." when you went "He's a symbol for what a Spartan can do!"

Also, I personally believe there was a slight bias when Cortana picked, due to being made from Halsey's brain and Halsey liking chief the best.

  • 05.05.2011 8:14 AM PDT

I am the king of J's
KING J MASTER OF EXPERIENCE

he had common sense,luck and was good...not average....GOOD at everything,and do tell me

if he isnt the best,how come he is the last?

he survived countless fights without being seriously injured?
go on impress me....

  • 05.05.2011 8:18 AM PDT

I am the king of J's
KING J MASTER OF EXPERIENCE


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Keeno, just saying, it sounds like you want passionate sex with Master Chief daily...

Oh, and pulling the weak as hell argument "Name another Spartan that has done what Chief has?". Yep, you are what I call a blind, stupid, chief fanboy.

No spartan has done that because none got the chance. Because Chief was the primary character.



chief fanboy?
are you dumb?chief is the main character of the main series.

its like saying "i love the game rayman,but i dont like rayman."

and im pretty sure if you put any other spartan in chief's position they wouldn't quite cut it and would probably die somehow where chief wouldent of.(for example,put jun in the level cortana....7/10 he would die)

now stop making pointless arguments online and find somin better to do,maybe go play some halo or somin...

  • 05.05.2011 8:24 AM PDT