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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


That is true, but then again, remember that all SPARTANS are damn good in MJOLNIR armor.

  • 05.29.2011 10:26 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


That is true, but then again, remember that all SPARTANS are damn good in MJOLNIR armor.

Well, John was in Mk.V when struggling with the Brute while Cal was in Mk.IV if I remember right.

  • 05.29.2011 10:29 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


I haven't read the revised First Strike yet, all I know is that Brutes were encountered before that book, but wasn't that still Chief's first time fighting a Brute? And the Brutes kinda came out of nowhere. In Cal's situation, excepting her death scene, it was basically the other way round she and the ODSTs got the drop on the Covenant.

  • 05.29.2011 12:59 PM PDT

Been a while since I've seen that.

  • 06.01.2011 12:18 AM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


I haven't read the revised First Strike yet, all I know is that Brutes were encountered before that book, but wasn't that still Chief's first time fighting a Brute? And the Brutes kinda came out of nowhere. In Cal's situation, excepting her death scene, it was basically the other way round she and the ODSTs got the drop on the Covenant.


I thought Brutes, Spartans, and Elites were all basically pretty equal in strength when Spartans were equipped with MJOLNIR...

  • 06.01.2011 9:02 AM PDT

Back on topic: To conclude this thread, I think it is safe to assume that John-117 wasn't very exceptional to begin with, but he proved himself during the final three months of the War, and we can all agree that, well, all SPARTANS were exceptional, what do you think made them SPARTANS in the first place?

/thread

  • 06.01.2011 9:33 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


I haven't read the revised First Strike yet, all I know is that Brutes were encountered before that book, but wasn't that still Chief's first time fighting a Brute? And the Brutes kinda came out of nowhere. In Cal's situation, excepting her death scene, it was basically the other way round she and the ODSTs got the drop on the Covenant.


I thought Brutes, Spartans, and Elites were all basically pretty equal in strength when Spartans were equipped with MJOLNIR...


Brutes are stronger than both Elites and Spartans.

  • 06.01.2011 10:37 AM PDT

Posted by: aaz b
Isn't John supposed to be the jack of all trades spartan?

As in, he doesn't do exceptionally well in one paticular area, like sniping or something. He is pretty much Great in all areas, but not the best.

But he was pretty much bad@ss. Going through High Charity by himself.
He still has Arbiter during Co-Op. =P

  • 06.01.2011 2:46 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Oh no was someone citing The Babysitter as a respectable representation of Spartan attitude and strength? Oh noes.

  • 06.01.2011 3:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: flamedude
Oh no was someone citing The Babysitter as a respectable representation of Spartan attitude and strength? Oh noes.

Yeah, so what?

  • 06.01.2011 4:01 PM PDT

Posted by: flamedude
Oh no was someone citing The Babysitter as a respectable representation of Spartan attitude and strength? Oh noes.


I thought it was good myself.

  • 06.01.2011 5:21 PM PDT

Ok, yes he isn't necessarily "outstanding" at anything, but as Cortana said at the beginning of Halo 3 he had something the others didn't have, John had luck. He fell from space and crashed into the ground and didn't die. He flew out of a loading bay holding onto a bomb and used it to blow up a covenant carrier. He was one lucky SoB. Plus, he was always lucky enough not to die. Even at the end of Halo 3 when the Ark blew up and cut off the portal and In Amber Clad got sliced in half, he still lived.

  • 06.01.2011 5:58 PM PDT

Posted by: tchmelik
Ok, yes he isn't necessarily "outstanding" at anything, but as Cortana said at the beginning of Halo 3 he had something the others didn't have, John had luck. He fell from space and crashed into the ground and didn't die. He flew out of a loading bay holding onto a bomb and used it to blow up a covenant carrier. He was one lucky SoB. Plus, he was always lucky enough not to die. Even at the end of Halo 3 when the Ark blew up and cut off the portal and In Amber Clad got sliced in half, he still lived.


If Master Chief was the best Spartan he wouldn't need luck.

  • 06.01.2011 6:00 PM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: tchmelik
Ok, yes he isn't necessarily "outstanding" at anything, but as Cortana said at the beginning of Halo 3 he had something the others didn't have, John had luck. He fell from space and crashed into the ground and didn't die. He flew out of a loading bay holding onto a bomb and used it to blow up a covenant carrier. He was one lucky SoB. Plus, he was always lucky enough not to die. Even at the end of Halo 3 when the Ark blew up and cut off the portal and In Amber Clad got sliced in half, he still lived.


If Master Chief was the best Spartan he wouldn't need luck.


What's the saying?

"Lady Luck favors the weak and foolish"?

  • 06.01.2011 6:03 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
What's the saying?

"Lady Luck favors the weak and foolish"?

I'd rather be lucky than good.

  • 06.01.2011 6:12 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.

The novels does not state that John is mediocre. He's a jack of all trades, but master of none. Halsey believes John to be the best Spartan. Fastest? No. Strongest? No. Smartest? No.

  • 06.01.2011 6:42 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Agreed.

  • 06.01.2011 6:51 PM PDT

John may be a jack of all trades spartan, but he had luck, and had leadership. All though his team was often bested by kurt's, it says in first strike that it was due to kurt's 'funny feelings', not because kurt had better leadership.

[Edited on 06.01.2011 7:19 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 7:18 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


I haven't read the revised First Strike yet, all I know is that Brutes were encountered before that book, but wasn't that still Chief's first time fighting a Brute? And the Brutes kinda came out of nowhere. In Cal's situation, excepting her death scene, it was basically the other way round she and the ODSTs got the drop on the Covenant.


I thought Brutes, Spartans, and Elites were all basically pretty equal in strength when Spartans were equipped with MJOLNIR...

No. The Brutes are far stronger, but they're dumb and realatively slow.

  • 06.02.2011 4:02 AM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
No. The Brutes are far stronger, but they're dumb and realatively slow.


Actually... Brutes can be intelligent, however they are fanatical in their beliefs and thus easier to manipulate.

As for slower... not when Berserking.

  • 06.02.2011 7:51 AM PDT

sup if you don't like what I post you can go suck one this is the internet not Grammer class so GTFO Grammer N@ZI's

Posted by: Snake Archer
Posted by: marhorn
It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!


Others call it game mechanics.

many call it a character shield.

  • 06.02.2011 7:53 AM PDT

Fascinating...

Jack of All Trades , Master of None.... || He was good in everything .... it doesn't make sense to have someone with excellent rifle skills to walk like a damn duck.

  • 06.02.2011 8:02 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
No. The Brutes are far stronger, but they're dumb and realatively slow.


Actually... Brutes can be intelligent, however they are fanatical in their beliefs and thus easier to manipulate.

As for slower... not when Berserking.

In combat compared to a Spartan they are dumb and slow.

  • 06.02.2011 8:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Jaeos
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You can have the skill, the talent, the strength, whatever... If you don't have the brains, you don't have anything.

Chief is smart. Plain and simple.

  • 06.02.2011 10:22 AM PDT