Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also, Chief wouldn't last long in Six's position before her death. Chief can barely handle one Major.


Except all the other Spartans wouldn't fair any better, this isn't some normal fight, this is a fight with Energy Swords, while a Spartan may be able to use them effectively, they're not going to be able to hold a candle to an Elite's skill with one, not matter how good or bad they are at close quarters combat. It's similar to giving a Samurai being given a Western broad sword and told to go fight a Western knight with it, he'll be able to use the sword, because a sword is basically a sword, they all handle rather similarly, but he won't fair very well against the knight because it's not the type sword he's used to.

Fair point. However, I think Cal-141 would do better than most Spartans in Six's situtation, she wiped the floor with that Brute during The Babysitter and only got killed because she protected O'Brien, while Chief nearly got killed by one.


I haven't read the revised First Strike yet, all I know is that Brutes were encountered before that book, but wasn't that still Chief's first time fighting a Brute? And the Brutes kinda came out of nowhere. In Cal's situation, excepting her death scene, it was basically the other way round she and the ODSTs got the drop on the Covenant.


I thought Brutes, Spartans, and Elites were all basically pretty equal in strength when Spartans were equipped with MJOLNIR...


Yes, they're all three very similar in strength, don't know about speed, but they're all very similar in regards to strength. I think Brutes might be the strongest of the three though.

  • 06.02.2011 11:08 AM PDT

Posted by: DERPZORZ
Posted by: Snake Archer
Posted by: marhorn
It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!


Others call it game mechanics.

many call it a character shield.


And I call it bull$#1t...

  • 06.02.2011 2:27 PM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

John did have his advantages in a way. He had exceptional determination and luck.

  • 06.04.2011 7:26 AM PDT

Posted by: n3rdygam3r
John did have his advantages in a way. He had exceptional determination and luck.


Thanks for stating the obvious.

  • 06.04.2011 1:30 PM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

If he wasn't exceptional he would of had died like the others.

  • 06.04.2011 4:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
If he wasn't exceptional he would of had died like the others.


They "died" for humanity, and I am sure John-117 would have too if he had gotten a chance, because a SPARTAN's greatest honor is to die for humanity, they know they are tools for the trade, and because they know this, I am sure they would rather it be for a noble cause (no pun intended), than for political reasons. John has no reason not to die, he just knew that he was the only one left, and that he had to stay alive to ensure humanity was safe. That is SPARTAN code, never stop fighting until the objective is complete, and his objective, as the last SPARTAN, was to ensure the safety of Earth and neutralize the Flood, just as Noble Team's objective, in the long run, was the safe passage of the Pillar of Autumn along with Cortana off Reach and give humanity a fighting chance along with her.

  • 06.05.2011 3:20 PM PDT

resurrection!

  • 07.02.2011 11:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Dagnir
I was hoping not to get dragged into this....

It's not bias or opinion.

Overall he was/is the greatest spartan. Fact.

  • 07.03.2011 12:18 AM PDT

Nuts to you all. Master Chief was hyperlethal.

The only one else with that rating was Noble 6

[Edited on 07.03.2011 2:41 AM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 2:37 AM PDT


Posted by: marhorn
If he wasn't KOed, why no response until a short bit AFTER they unlocked his armor.

John has only been called that once. By Halsey's PERSONAL, and slightly biased opinion.

Bull-blam!-. That's blind Master Chief fanboyism.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.



We never seen how long 6 took to recouperate....

The Covenant never feared any other Spartan enough to call them Demon!

Not so....Just the fact that throughout Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 John pretty much took on the whole Covenant army (and Flood).....and WON!

Its like John is the chosen one....again going back to his luck/fate.


You can tell it wasn't that long because bits of the wreckage were still smouldering behind him and the battle of New Alexandria had only recently begun. Also why are we comparing John to noble six who was a Spartan III and therefore inherently weaker.

Actually the covenant name for spartans was demons. They called all spartans demons.

He did this with the help of cortana, one of the most advanced AIs ever. Also in Halo 1 he was only fighting a guerilla war against the covenant and the flood did not have a gravemind. In Halo 2 Regret's fleet was very small as he did not expect humans to be on Earth. In high charity he survived due to the civil war. In Halo 3 he was fighting a very diminished covenant with the help of the elites.

Luck is luck. It doesn't make John a good spartan.

  • 07.03.2011 3:07 AM PDT

Yes, and Cortana chose him. And a Covenant without Elites is still a pretty strong Covenant. Also, don't forget that he single-handedly goes through a flood infested High Charity, twice. And this is with the gravemingd

  • 07.03.2011 3:20 AM PDT

You're right that he wasn't the best at everything, but he was the best 'over all' Spartan. And you forgot about his apparent luck. Even Cortana chose him over all the others and called him the 'best'.

And he was definitely the best leader, although Fred was close.

  • 07.03.2011 4:32 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: RudeOnion
You're right that he wasn't the best at everything, but he was the best 'over all' Spartan. And you forgot about his apparent luck. Even Cortana chose him over all the others and called him the 'best'.

And he was definitely the best leader, although Fred was close.


Actually the best leader whose skills were quantified was Kurt. Hence why he was chosen to be at the head of the SIIIs.

You have to keep in mind. It's in Halsey's (and in effect Cortana's) personal opinion that John is the best based on her existing preference for picking him.

However in terms of actual performance that's been observed and recorded, compared, etc, that's another story.

  • 07.03.2011 4:41 AM PDT

Well Master Chief is a better spartan than Noble 6 for sure, not only because he has better armour but he had way more training than Noble 6, Noble 6 is a Spartan III. They went for numbers not quality when they produced and trained Spartan IIIs. In the Spartan group he was average, yes, the only thing setting him apart was as you said Leadership but don't forget luck, the big reason for why Cortana choosed Master Chief.



  • 07.03.2011 9:27 AM PDT


Posted by: Samba
Well Master Chief is a better spartan than Noble 6 for sure, not only because he has better armour but he had way more training than Noble 6, Noble 6 is a Spartan III. They went for numbers not quality when they produced and trained Spartan IIIs. In the Spartan group he was average, yes, the only thing setting him apart was as you said Leadership but don't forget luck, the big reason for why Cortana choosed Master Chief.


Actually that's not accurate. If Six had been born earlier she would have been one of the many candidates for the SII program. The SIIIs who made up Noble Team and whatever other SIII teams of a similar nature that might be out there, were all of the same quality as the Spartan IIs. And Kurt and Mendez outfitted them and deployed them as Spartan IIs. Six is at the very least equal to Master Chief. Six may have even been able to surpass him if she had survived Reach, we don't know.

  • 07.03.2011 11:05 AM PDT

I DO have time to bleed...i just dont want to.


Posted by: Snake Archer
Posted by: marhorn
It is said througout the Halo lore that Master chief is the best. When they first selected him, they tossed a coin in the air and he grabbed it right outta the air! When he did an assault course he punched a falcon missile out of the sky!

Noble 6 fell down to Reach with a re-entry pack.....and almost died....Master Chief fell back to Earth with nothing....and was ready to rock and roll!

Luck was often the saving grace of John.....although some of us call that fate!


Others call it game mechanics.

game mechanics? john is a spartan 2 and noble 6 is a spartan 3(spartan 3s were ment for suiside missions therefore were disposible,spartan2s on the other hand are the best of the best and arent ment to die.spartan 2s have thicker armour than spartan 3s (from what i can see)

  • 07.03.2011 11:25 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Just food for thought; If Halsey created the Spartan-II project and hand picked all candidates based on genetic profiles, and then she claims John is the best Spartan of the lot then surely thats the end of that discussion?

We all understand that John wasnt exceptionally skilled at any one skill (besides leadership) but as far as I can tell he was not poorly skilled at anything. If you chose Kelly as the greatest Spartan she doesnt hold up under scrutiny, same goes for Linda and I imagine all other Spartans.

The only Spartan-IIs that I compare to John (who I still maintain is the greatest Spartan) would be Kurt and Fred.

  • 07.03.2011 12:12 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: IBumpElectro
Thats weird...in Halseys journal that came with the Limited edition of reach she writes that there was one spartan that stood out. one that was best at everything Spartan 117.


Doubt it, Kelly could outrun him any day, Linda could outsnipe him, Kurt could out-lead him(sp?), Fred could beat him in CQC, etc, etc. If I remember well, Fred always came up in second place in everything, John even mentions that he did it because he didn't want the attention, so if there is a "best" Spartan, that'd be Fred.
Indeed, but only a truly "best" Spartan, can survive. So, the real Spartan that's in 2nd place, is Kelly, since she's alive. Besides, what is outrunning going to do for her? You can't beat luck.

  • 07.03.2011 12:21 PM PDT

Yay for somebody going on without knowing how Spartan III training is actually better then Spartan II training, and how the augmentations produce basically the exact same results.

As for Halsey picking them, she did a coin toss. That's how John got in. Even then, 'genetics' she pointed out how John WAS NOT the best in those areas. He wasn't the strongest, fastest, or smartest. He had luck. I'll agree John was among the best (as I've said before), but him being the best spartan? I don't think so.

  • 07.03.2011 12:23 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

So who is the best Spartan?

  • 07.03.2011 12:24 PM PDT

Why does there have to be an outright best?

Why can there not be a grouping of the best Spartans, and be left at that?

  • 07.03.2011 12:42 PM PDT

No u


Posted by: Docterweegee
Master chief helped kill Osama (Snacks if you get this)


Master Chief is a rank in the navy. One of the guys on seal team six was a master chief?

  • 07.03.2011 12:57 PM PDT

No you retard Stephen Colbert said, Master Chief was a member of Seal Team6 (The team that killed Osama)

  • 07.03.2011 1:01 PM PDT

Fight for what you believe in. But why fight for nothing.
Check out these websites:
http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/226723/group/groupmembers.aspx? page=5
http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/246720/Group/GroupHome.aspx

well think of this. its not always strength that makes a good soldier. its smarts, in which cheif has a LOT of. Yes the spartans may have performed better, but with Cortana and the rest of the marine corps behind chief, I'm less than suprised that he was able to do some of the things he's done. Later, he had the help of the elites near the end of halo 2, and help from guilty spark at the very end of halo 2. (he turned again anyway) As a reference, Napoleon Bonneparte, or however it is spelled, was one of the dumbest in his class for war strategy, etc. yes, they actually had the school back then, yet Napoleon was still able to take over multiple countries with ease. What does that have to do with cheif? It shows the point that even in class, being where he was, he may have surpassed all of them AND nobody really knew it. much like napoleon

  • 07.03.2011 1:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Why does there have to be an outright best?

Why can there not be a grouping of the best Spartans, and be left at that?

  • 07.03.2011 1:13 PM PDT