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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
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Got another Bungie.net account. Was a hounorable member but i used this one as it is linked to my Gamertag.

That was before he saved Humanity. Would you not agree that he could have improved over all the battles and gained more experience from fighting the covenant? I certainly would.

  • 07.03.2011 2:03 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: RudeOnion
You're right that he wasn't the best at everything, but he was the best 'over all' Spartan. And you forgot about his apparent luck. Even Cortana chose him over all the others and called him the 'best'.

And he was definitely the best leader, although Fred was close.


Actually the best leader whose skills were quantified was Kurt. Hence why he was chosen to be at the head of the SIIIs.

You have to keep in mind. It's in Halsey's (and in effect Cortana's) personal opinion that John is the best based on her existing preference for picking him.

However in terms of actual performance that's been observed and recorded, compared, etc, that's another story.

Actually I'm pretty sure that John is the best leader amongst the Spartans, if it were Kurt as you say, then it would have been Kurt who was chosen to be the overall leader of the Spartan IIs. And it wasn't because of Halsey's liking of him that he got to be leader, not entirely, Mendez had plenty of input in that too, and as far as I know he didn't really pick and choose favorites. There is no question that Kurt is a good leader, otherwise he would not have been picked as head of the SIII Program, but I don't think he's the best leader.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 2:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 2:22 PM PDT

No u


Posted by: Gabe Ster01
No you retard Stephen Colbert said, Master Chief was a member of Seal Team6 (The team that killed Osama)


Hey man, no need to be a flamer.

  • 07.03.2011 2:38 PM PDT

No u

And honestly I think there is not an outright best Spartan. They all have good qualities, some have better qualities than the others. Master Chief is a great spartan, and he's as good as all the others. My point is, John may not be an exceptional spartan, but if he isn't, none of them are.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 2:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 2:43 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007

I sort of disagree. It is true that John isn't the best at any one thing but just b/c he isn't doesn't mean he is average. He is better then average at each category which is why he is special. He was a good Marksman, very strong, very fast, he just wasn't the best. What he lacks in one thing he makes up for in another.

Being the Jack of all trades, master of none has its own advantages which is the ability to adapt best to any situation. N6 is also a S3 which aren't as good as the Spartan 2s, some say they are exactly the same but I believe the drugs given to the 2s were stronger which is why Jorge is so much taller then the other S3s plus there is the fact that Kurt even says that Spartan 2s could handle situations that the S3s couldn't which is why he would train the S3s to be like a family and a unit while in the field as opposed to the one man army spartans(one man armies working together) but that is just my own course of logic on the comparison between S2s and S3s, back to the original topic.

As for the hyper-lethal, it is heavily implied that John is the other with well you the whole saving humanity thing and having one of the largest kill counts if I remember correctly kinda points towards that conclusion. Also who is to say that other Spartans would do better then John in the same Halo situation? How would being the fastest or strongest improve the situation as opposed to being a great leader and more adaptable Spartan. There is also the fact that Dr. Halsey always holds John with the highest regards among the Spartans and I can only say it is because she believes that he is the ideal Spartan.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 5:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 5:07 PM PDT
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From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 5:39 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 5:38 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007


Posted by: manwith
From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.


Yet he managed to take on a Brute the first time he encountered one, sure he was almost crushed by it but he had no intel in this new(to him)enemy plus there is the fact that he survived Halo 1-3 which included several close quarters combat zones(it would be hard to believe that he did all of this without swinging a punch) many of which were infested by the flood, he also did this with relatively little back up. Also I wouldn't say any SPartan has a weakness as much as I would say that they simply aren't as strong in certain areas as others.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 5:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 5:43 PM PDT


Posted by: manwith
From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.


You have to take the whole scenario into account though. The reason he had difficulty with the Elite in TFoR was because when it was first written that was the first time that Elites had been encountered by the UNSC, which has since been retconned, meaning that it would not be John's first time fighting an Elite, which would also mean that he would not be having so much difficulty with it. Even if the text in TFoR remains the same for that part, the entire scenario is changed due to the fact that each of the Spartans have fought Elites countless times before.

And the only other CQB encounter that's really gone into for John is the battle with the Energy Sword wielding Elite on the Ascendant Justice. First off, the Elite had a sword, that changes the fight drastically, and on top of that it was in very quarters, not much room to move around. Plus, he had Johnson and the other guys with him who wouldn't have really stood a chance against the Elite. And the most deciding factor of it all, Chief had just been fighting through at least a week's worth of constant, almost non-stop fighting and getting battered that whole time. He'd had no sleep, was heavily wounded, and as far as I know had nothing to eat or drink. That does not make for a very easy or fair fight. Plus if IIRC the Elite on the bridge of the Ascendant Justice was one of the higher ranks amongst the Elites, something which everyone agrees that any Spartan would have some difficulty with.

Now as for your other point, the only instance of John having any sort of trouble working solo was when he first arrived on Alpha Halo. And that was because he had been working as part of a team for the past 25 or so years, he was used to someone else having his back at all times, any other Spartan would have had similar difficulties at first too.

  • 07.03.2011 7:24 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: OrderedComa


And the only other CQB encounter that's really gone into for John is the battle with the Energy Sword wielding Elite on the Ascendant Justice. First off, the Elite had a sword, that changes the fight drastically, and on top of that it was in very quarters, not much room to move around. Plus, he had Johnson and the other guys with him who wouldn't have really stood a chance against the Elite. And the most deciding factor of it all, Chief had just been fighting through at least a week's worth of constant, almost non-stop fighting and getting battered that whole time. He'd had no sleep, was heavily wounded, and as far as I know had nothing to eat or drink. That does not make for a very easy or fair fight. Plus if IIRC the Elite on the bridge of the Ascendant Justice was one of the higher ranks amongst the Elites, something which everyone agrees that any Spartan would have some difficulty with.


Just for the record, the 4 of them (John, Johnson, Polaski and Hanson or whatever his name is) ganged up on the Elite.

  • 07.03.2011 8:57 PM PDT

But...you're forgetting the one thing Master Chief that no other Spartan had.Luck.

  • 07.03.2011 9:30 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: soulider assasin
But...you're forgetting the one thing Master Chief that no other Spartan had.Luck.


Hello, you're the 20th person to post that in this thread.

  • 07.03.2011 9:32 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: OrderedComa


And the only other CQB encounter that's really gone into for John is the battle with the Energy Sword wielding Elite on the Ascendant Justice. First off, the Elite had a sword, that changes the fight drastically, and on top of that it was in very quarters, not much room to move around. Plus, he had Johnson and the other guys with him who wouldn't have really stood a chance against the Elite. And the most deciding factor of it all, Chief had just been fighting through at least a week's worth of constant, almost non-stop fighting and getting battered that whole time. He'd had no sleep, was heavily wounded, and as far as I know had nothing to eat or drink. That does not make for a very easy or fair fight. Plus if IIRC the Elite on the bridge of the Ascendant Justice was one of the higher ranks amongst the Elites, something which everyone agrees that any Spartan would have some difficulty with.


Just for the record, the 4 of them (John, Johnson, Polaski and Hanson or whatever his name is) ganged up on the Elite.


I know, I was just listing why John was not at the top of his game and why the situation the fight was set in was also working against him.

  • 07.03.2011 9:41 PM PDT

Random thought... god knows how much John's skills may have skyrocketed due to his constant battle in the final months of the war.

And another note on his Jack of All Trades status in relation to his actions during Halo 1-3, him not having a 'best' skill allows him to rely on all aspects, while Kelly......I mean Linda may purposely set up for sniping, who's to say she wouldn't be snuck up on and killed at some point during 1-3 if she were there.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 11:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 11:04 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Backfjre
Random thought... god knows how much John's skills may have skyrocketed due to his constant battle in the final months of the war.

And another note on his Jack of All Trades status in relation to his actions during Halo 1-3, him not having a 'best' skill allows him to rely on all aspects, while Kelly may purposely set up for sniping, who's to say she wouldn't be snuck up on and killed at some point during 1-3 if she were there.


Linda, not Kelly.

  • 07.03.2011 11:09 PM PDT

Yes but, he's lucky. Also, I hate how everybody always says the games are messed up bacause of the books. The games came first so, Bungie does what they like. The books are made by just some person. But the Games are the true Halo

[Edited on 07.04.2011 12:07 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 12:02 AM PDT

Master Chief was the best because he survived. :P The game said (going by game because I'm still on the first book) that all other Spartans were MIA... And what John had was luck and leadership skills. Just my point of view on this scuff.

  • 07.04.2011 1:12 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith
From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.

How does John suck when he broke an ODST's arm and killed another?

  • 07.04.2011 1:13 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: liox4ever

Posted by: manwith
From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.

How does John suck when he broke an ODST's arm and killed another?


After being filled with chemicals that make steroids look weak....

  • 07.04.2011 1:28 AM PDT

"YOUR DESTRUCTION IS THE WILL OF THE GODS, AND WE ARE THEIR INSTRUMENT."

Because you play as him. Three times. He's the poster-child of last generation first person shooters and the Xbox / Xbox 360. If you played as Kelly or Linda instead, we'd think of them the same way. It's as simple as that.

  • 07.04.2011 1:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: liox4ever

Posted by: manwith
From what I've read John sucks at pure hand-to-hand combat and has a real difficulty fighting alone without back up.

Fred, Kelly and Will show no indication of any weakness.

How does John suck when he broke an ODST's arm and killed another?


>Implying another Spartan would have had trouble with it.

  • 07.04.2011 2:40 AM PDT

Life Is A Gift, That's Why They Call It The Present.


Posted by: forthnback

He's also, according to the novels,

This is where you went wrong in my eyes, Novels are not canon they are just excepted as canon by Bungie as they are too lazy to give the Halo addicts what they want.
The only reason Chief is better than other Spartans is because he has luck.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 2:50 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 2:43 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: xHITx Chaos

Posted by: forthnback

He's also, according to the novels,

This is where you went wrong in my eyes, Novels are not canon they are just excepted as canon by Bungie as they are too lazy to give the Halo addicts what they want.
The only reason Chief is better than other Spartans is because he has luck.


Novels are canon, but Games take priority over them.

  • 07.04.2011 3:42 AM PDT

Just because he wasn't the fastest or the best sniper doesn't mean squat. The Flash is faster than Superman and the Hulk is stronger but Supes is more versatile. Plus luck is a great thing to have on your side.

  • 07.04.2011 8:23 AM PDT

he had luck, nuff said

  • 07.04.2011 8:26 AM PDT


Posted by: A Fast Pollock
Just because he wasn't the fastest or the best sniper doesn't mean squat. The Flash is faster than Superman and the Hulk is stronger but Supes is more versatile. Plus luck is a great thing to have on your side.


Mhm, not being a master at one particular field or something similar such as sniping, hand-to-hand combat, or anything else you can think, but being just about average (at least) at them all does not mean you stink. Like in video games involving stats like RPGs and the like, I find that the best characters, at least imo, are the ones who start out average in just about everything, they perform much better than a guy who's a walking tank but really slow or a guy who's really fast, but isn't all that powerful in attacks. Being good at everything and extremely versatile is much better in the long run than just having one specific field of expertise.

  • 07.04.2011 8:47 AM PDT