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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?

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You're forgetting he had one thing, the others didn't. Luck.

  • 07.07.2011 7:32 PM PDT

~Previous Main Gamertag: Grav1ty Hamster (50 HS)~

Chief was the overall best soldier. There were better Snipers/Sprinters/Assaults/Leaders/Etc. but those Spartans lacked greatly in other aspects where Chief held consistent levels of skill.

He really is just lucky like anyone else. War is not like a movie you could live from D-Day Normandy to the end of WWII and it would all be luck not "skill". Proper positioning yes but after a certain point it is luck. Chiefs fantastic overall generalization of skills and his huge amounts of luck helped to pull him through Halo. By now though with all that combat experience he has got to be the best by now.

  • 07.07.2011 7:39 PM PDT


Posted by: rAnDomOSSiTyy
Chief was the overall best soldier. There were better Snipers/Sprinters/Assaults/Leaders/Etc. but those Spartans lacked greatly in other aspects where Chief held consistent levels of skill.

He really is just lucky like anyone else. War is not like a movie you could live from D-Day Normandy to the end of WWII and it would all be luck not "skill". Proper positioning yes but after a certain point it is luck. Chiefs fantastic overall generalization of skills and his huge amounts of luck helped to pull him through Halo. By now though with all that combat experience he has got to be the best by now.


I don't think you understand Spartan training. Linda would do fine in CQC. Fred would do fine at long ranges.

Spartans are good at everything, the best at their specialization. Chief's specialization however was being a leader, and not a specific thing like sniping.

  • 07.07.2011 7:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag: UNOCK
  • user homepage:

Live Forever or Die Trying.

You're all missing the point about Master Chief.

Master Chief took a bomb out Cairo Station, put it in a Covenant Capital Ship and blew it up.

Luck, right? Or was it skill...

When Master Chief caught Halsey's coin, and guessed the right side... it was luck, right? Or was it skill...

That's the whole POINT of Master Chief and his miracles (because they're nothing short. You all played Halo: CE - Halo 3) It's only defined as "luck" in Halo: 3, and that could be because Cortana has no other word for it. She can't pick up on the subtleties that shows it's actually skill, or she could know for a fact that it's all planned and happens because the Master Chief knows how to, but chooses to call it "luck" simply because that's how Cortana is.

For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.

[Edited on 07.07.2011 8:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2011 7:51 PM PDT

You are listening to Novels, not the games, Halsey knew John was better than Noble Six That is why John was chosen I read Halsey's journal and it said that she arranged plans for John to get Cortana before Noble Six came to Noble Team, She knew that John was strong swift and Brave like in the Halo 3 cutscene, and that "1 other spartan theroy" you have is wrong, Master Cheif took out 8 Alien Races and wiped out an enourmous Parasite monster and saved Earth and all of the life in the galaxy lets see six do that.

  • 07.07.2011 8:00 PM PDT


Posted by: SniperStealth
You're forgetting he had one thing, the others didn't. Luck.


What he said. Without luck MC would have never did the things he has, and no other spartan would have either.

  • 07.07.2011 8:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag: caneut
  • user homepage:

.


Posted by: forthnback
Yes, he was the only Spartan in place when the Autumn jumped. As such, he was the Spartan on hand to tackle the Halo rings. In Halo 2-3, Blue Team was sent away. Once again, he was the only Spartan on hand to spearhead the Delta Halo campaign, along with the Ark landing.

John saved the galaxy, and inspired Humanity as it's hero. Yes.

He's also, according to the novels, entirely mediocre as a Spartan. He is not the strongest, fastest, best marksmen, smartest, most agile, etc. He is average, in literally every regard. He is exceptional in only one regard, and that was leadership. He was one of four Spartan selected to be leaders (and even then, Kurt's team frequently outperformed John's team because Kurt was the better commander).

Bungie's stance, not mine, is that John is an average Spartan who excells at only one thing. Leadership. And he isn't even the best at that.

For those familiar with the definition of average, this means John was in the middle of his class as far as terms of abilities went. That means that 50% of the Spartans, roughly, would have performed as good as he did in Halo 1-3, if not better.

I really laugh at everyone who claims John is somehow a better warrior than Noble Six. Leader, absolutely. But N6 was declared to be one of two Spartans to have the hyper-lethal rating....and god knows it isn't going to be 'everyman' John.


Well it -blam!- helps the story (mainly the books) if you read that in his file, he had extreme "luck." Yes he was not the best. But put any other spartan in his position? No one could have won the war. Sure if 50 spartan's were alive and sent to the first halo, I'm sure that mission would have been done in a day. One spartan? Remember that one spartan is about as strong as an elite. Several elites? With jackals, mass amounts of grunts? Hunters aswell? What one spartan could do all that? If you play on easy sure but I'm sure the true Halo universe was probably set in Heroic or Legendary. John's luck saved them, with the help of Cortana. Cortana chose John because of his luck, was it luck that he was the one that was sent to Installation O4?

Yeah -blam!- you.

[Edited on 07.07.2011 8:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2011 8:28 PM PDT

We game therefore we are

I wouldn't say it was a null point, there is a reason Halsey took so much time in order to make sure she only got the perfect genetics. Anyway I have no where said the S3s were not capable, they are indeed amazing but even their CO, Kurt said that S2s could perform missions that S3s couldn't which is why he changed the methods of training his S3s after operation Prometheus I believe.

I do think that the S3s are great and that they were sent on suicide missions, ones that the S2s would probably also have died in but I disagree with the idea that some people are having that others could do what John did. In my opinion John is the best of the Spartans and my reasoning is the fact that he has been fighting the covenant for nearly 30yrs and costed the covenant thousands of troops, yes he had help but so did almost every other big shot. Then in Halo he defeated the largest known threats in the galaxy which he knew nothing about. He destroyed Halo, the flood, survived High Charity the Covenants most formidable stronghold and then once again saved the galaxy from the activation of the Halos on the Ark. You can say all you want but the fact is that he was the one to do it and NO evidence supports that any others could have, someone can point all the fingers they want and say he didn't it alone but nonetheless it was him.

  • 07.07.2011 8:34 PM PDT


Posted by: UNOCK
For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.


Wrong.

Six completed EVERY assignment given to him/her. Everything six was asked to do was completed successfully. Tell me what mission Six had that was failed.

Six dying on Reach is moot point to who is better.

Six was not a grunt. Six was a lone wolf and VERY good assassin.

Heh, I think your going into a little rage there caneut :P. I agree with you Master Chief is definitely among the best spartans, and it'd probably take one of those number to survive and succeed at the halo events. The guy is going a little too far in saying compared to Spartans Chief was just generic and mediocre.

Edit: Fail on my end, confused you caneut for orderedcoma. same avatar :P.

[Edited on 07.07.2011 9:27 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2011 9:16 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007

Yea six did in fact accomplish his mission, he stayed to hold off and fight covenant for as long as possible, I still think the Master Chief is better but N6 had far from failed his mission, he managed each task and died fighting an essentially limitless enemy.

  • 07.07.2011 9:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Sparda Reborn
Yea six did in fact accomplish his mission, he stayed to hold off and fight covenant for as long as possible, I still think the Master Chief is better but N6 had far from failed his mission, he managed each task and died fighting an essentially limitless enemy.


I think one thing that enabled the PoA to escape was the fact that Six stayed behind. If he hadn't been there at the wastelands distracting those hordes of high ranking Elites they would've turned tail and headed straight for the Pillar. Six died to save the Master Chief, Keyes, Cortana, Johnson, and everyone else aboard the ship. His sacrifice was not in vain, and to those of you (not you QP) that think his dieing makes him any less of a SPARTAN than Chief, well -blam!- you.

  • 07.07.2011 9:36 PM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
Yea six did in fact accomplish his mission, he stayed to hold off and fight covenant for as long as possible, I still think the Master Chief is better but N6 had far from failed his mission, he managed each task and died fighting an essentially limitless enemy.


I think one thing that enabled the PoA to escape was the fact that Six stayed behind. If he hadn't been there at the wastelands distracting those hordes of high ranking Elites they would've turned tail and headed straight for the Pillar. Six died to save the Master Chief, Keyes, Cortana, Johnson, and everyone else aboard the ship. His sacrifice was not in vain, and to those of you (not you QP) that think his dieing makes him any less of a SPARTAN than Chief, well -blam!- you.


Blam everybody who views the Spartan III's as lesser cause they died during the suicide missions.

If them dying makes them worse, then pretty much all the Spartan II's suck as they died.

  • 07.07.2011 9:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
Yea six did in fact accomplish his mission, he stayed to hold off and fight covenant for as long as possible, I still think the Master Chief is better but N6 had far from failed his mission, he managed each task and died fighting an essentially limitless enemy.


I think one thing that enabled the PoA to escape was the fact that Six stayed behind. If he hadn't been there at the wastelands distracting those hordes of high ranking Elites they would've turned tail and headed straight for the Pillar. Six died to save the Master Chief, Keyes, Cortana, Johnson, and everyone else aboard the ship. His sacrifice was not in vain, and to those of you (not you QP) that think his dieing makes him any less of a SPARTAN than Chief, well -blam!- you.


Blam everybody who views the Spartan III's as lesser cause they died during the suicide missions.

If them dying makes them worse, then pretty much all the Spartan II's suck as they died.


Remember, the real heroes aren't coming back. (Gears of War <<I think>>)

  • 07.07.2011 9:39 PM PDT

Never will I be welcomed, amongst the heartless monsters you surround yourself with, feeding off the pain and misfortune of others, a maniacal breed of sub-human parasites, thrown into a feeding frenzy with the smell of fresh blood, open your eyes and see the creatures for what they are, a swirling mass of hatred and envy, and do not be naïve enough to think you are unaffected, the conversion has already begun.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: RagedBigote

Posted by: forthnback

Posted by: Mutoid Log
He could be the second best at everything.


Fred was, actually, the second best at everything. Literally everything. John thought he could have come in first for everything, but just hated the attention.


"John thought he could have come in first for everything, but just hated the attention"

you sir have just bull-blamed yourself , if john wanted to be the best , he could have been the best , bout wiht this statment , your are now saying that he never preformed at his 100% , and knowing this we cant know if in the trilogy he preformd at 100% , or just did 10%

Sir , MC is the best spartan that we know untill now , next gen halo will preve otherwise??? , we still dont know , but until now he is the beast


Is John the best at predicting when a trap or ambush is up ahead? Nope.

Is he the best sniper? Nope.

Is he the fastest runner? Nope.

Is he the smartest? Nope.

Is he the strongest? Nope.

Is he the biggest? Nope.

How can he be the best if he really doesn't excel in any other category against the other Spartans?


Did he accomplish more in terms of saving the human race? Let's think about this one for a second. Yes.

  • 07.07.2011 9:44 PM PDT


Posted by: RGHTre

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: RagedBigote

Posted by: forthnback

Posted by: Mutoid Log
He could be the second best at everything.


Fred was, actually, the second best at everything. Literally everything. John thought he could have come in first for everything, but just hated the attention.


"John thought he could have come in first for everything, but just hated the attention"

you sir have just bull-blamed yourself , if john wanted to be the best , he could have been the best , bout wiht this statment , your are now saying that he never preformed at his 100% , and knowing this we cant know if in the trilogy he preformd at 100% , or just did 10%

Sir , MC is the best spartan that we know untill now , next gen halo will preve otherwise??? , we still dont know , but until now he is the beast


Is John the best at predicting when a trap or ambush is up ahead? Nope.

Is he the best sniper? Nope.

Is he the fastest runner? Nope.

Is he the smartest? Nope.

Is he the strongest? Nope.

Is he the biggest? Nope.

How can he be the best if he really doesn't excel in any other category against the other Spartans?


Did he accomplish more in terms of saving the human race? Let's think about this one for a second. Yes.


No. Preston Jeremiah Cole. Read.

  • 07.07.2011 9:48 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UNOCK
You're all missing the point about Master Chief.

Master Chief took a bomb out Cairo Station, put it in a Covenant Capital Ship and blew it up.

Luck, right? Or was it skill...

When Master Chief caught Halsey's coin, and guessed the right side... it was luck, right? Or was it skill...

That's the whole POINT of Master Chief and his miracles (because they're nothing short. You all played Halo: CE - Halo 3) It's only defined as "luck" in Halo: 3, and that could be because Cortana has no other word for it. She can't pick up on the subtleties that shows it's actually skill, or she could know for a fact that it's all planned and happens because the Master Chief knows how to, but chooses to call it "luck" simply because that's how Cortana is.

For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.


My fanboy alert is ringing, quick! to the fanboymobile!

  • 07.07.2011 9:49 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: UNOCK
You're all missing the point about Master Chief.

Master Chief took a bomb out Cairo Station, put it in a Covenant Capital Ship and blew it up.

Luck, right? Or was it skill...

When Master Chief caught Halsey's coin, and guessed the right side... it was luck, right? Or was it skill...

That's the whole POINT of Master Chief and his miracles (because they're nothing short. You all played Halo: CE - Halo 3) It's only defined as "luck" in Halo: 3, and that could be because Cortana has no other word for it. She can't pick up on the subtleties that shows it's actually skill, or she could know for a fact that it's all planned and happens because the Master Chief knows how to, but chooses to call it "luck" simply because that's how Cortana is.

For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.


My fanboy alert is ringing, quick! to the fanboymobile!


I'll get my fanboy retardant.

  • 07.07.2011 9:52 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: UNOCK
You're all missing the point about Master Chief.

Master Chief took a bomb out Cairo Station, put it in a Covenant Capital Ship and blew it up.

Luck, right? Or was it skill...

When Master Chief caught Halsey's coin, and guessed the right side... it was luck, right? Or was it skill...

That's the whole POINT of Master Chief and his miracles (because they're nothing short. You all played Halo: CE - Halo 3) It's only defined as "luck" in Halo: 3, and that could be because Cortana has no other word for it. She can't pick up on the subtleties that shows it's actually skill, or she could know for a fact that it's all planned and happens because the Master Chief knows how to, but chooses to call it "luck" simply because that's how Cortana is.

For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.


My fanboy alert is ringing, quick! to the fanboymobile!


I'll get my fanboy retardant.


Good idea fanboy assistant >:D

  • 07.07.2011 10:07 PM PDT


Posted by: RGHTre
Did he accomplish more in terms of saving the human race? Let's think about this one for a second. Yes.


Does that really matter seeing as he was the only Spartan available to do so? No.

  • 07.07.2011 10:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RGHTre
Did he accomplish more in terms of saving the human race? Let's think about this one for a second. Yes.


Does that really matter seeing as he was the only Spartan available to do so? No.



Even then, as I said before, Admiral Preston J Cole has a more impressive service record than any of the SPARTANS, I think Office of Naval Intelligence even confirmed this.

  • 07.07.2011 10:17 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
Yea six did in fact accomplish his mission, he stayed to hold off and fight covenant for as long as possible, I still think the Master Chief is better but N6 had far from failed his mission, he managed each task and died fighting an essentially limitless enemy.


I think one thing that enabled the PoA to escape was the fact that Six stayed behind. If he hadn't been there at the wastelands distracting those hordes of high ranking Elites they would've turned tail and headed straight for the Pillar. Six died to save the Master Chief, Keyes, Cortana, Johnson, and everyone else aboard the ship. His sacrifice was not in vain, and to those of you (not you QP) that think his dieing makes him any less of a SPARTAN than Chief, well -blam!- you.


Blam everybody who views the Spartan III's as lesser cause they died during the suicide missions.

If them dying makes them worse, then pretty much all the Spartan II's suck as they died.


Again, I don't say S3s suck but I still think S2s are better, I know they died on suicide missions but they are still not S2s, even Kurt said S2s could do things S3s couldn't. Yes N6 allowed the chief to get away but you can root events back all you want but it doesn't say who is better. Without Spartan 2s you have no S2 to train S3s, by rooting logic that makes S2s already better then S3s but rooting logic doesn't work.

  • 07.07.2011 10:23 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007

But what is to say any other Spartan could?? N6 was chosen to join noble 6, by your logic we could just as easily say any other Spartan could have done what he did.....

  • 07.07.2011 10:24 PM PDT

A hero need not speak. When he is gone, the world will speak for him.

What this boils down to is:
A) Chief was extremely lucky and everything he did is based on luck.
B) Luck is not a real concept and Master Chief did everything he did with pure skill.
In either scenario he is on top. Master Chief did not need the lime light in Spartan training, much as Fred didn't want it. He may not have been the best at anything during camp. However he is still human. So lets make a comparison. One boy goes to a basketball summer camp program, is only average, but practices all Summer and gets a few lucky good shots when he plays. The other kid does routine playing against his neighborhood pals but has never experienced anything outside of the neighborhood. They both join the school basketball team, odds are boy 1 is going to kick boy 2's ass at basketball. Why? Experience. John 117 has had experience no one else has. That and he functioned perfectly fine with the same reaction speeds through half of Halo 3 as he did in any other Halo game. Again, why did he do so well without his AI? EXPERIENCE. I rest my case. Noble 6 can be in the top 5, but Spartan II's will almost always be the best Spartans. John 117 is the best of the best.

  • 07.07.2011 11:36 PM PDT

Why are you looking here?

he's motivated as hell
i guess it's a subconscious "i must never lose. ever." kind of thing

  • 07.08.2011 12:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Me 001
he's motivated as hell
i guess it's a subconscious "i must never lose. ever." kind of thing


Implying no other spartan had that.

  • 07.08.2011 12:48 AM PDT