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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?
Subject: Why does no one remember that John isn't an exceptional Spartan?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Me 001
he's motivated as hell
i guess it's a subconscious "i must never lose. ever." kind of thing


Implying no other spartan had that.


In the book fall of reach Johns urge to never lose is shown to be greater than anyone else s.

  • 07.08.2011 3:35 AM PDT

My name is Miguel Adame and I am 15 years old. Nobody's perfect, but I'm pretty close.

Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

  • 07.08.2011 3:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Hence why Coma's the main person who views Chief as best that I can name who I respect. She says her views, gives her reasons, and respects my opinion and viewpoints about it.


Aaaw, thanks ^_^ Now I feel all special *hugs* :P

Posted by: UNOCK
You're all missing the point about Master Chief.

Master Chief took a bomb out Cairo Station, put it in a Covenant Capital Ship and blew it up.

Luck, right? Or was it skill...

When Master Chief caught Halsey's coin, and guessed the right side... it was luck, right? Or was it skill...

That's the whole POINT of Master Chief and his miracles (because they're nothing short. You all played Halo: CE - Halo 3) It's only defined as "luck" in Halo: 3, and that could be because Cortana has no other word for it. She can't pick up on the subtleties that shows it's actually skill, or she could know for a fact that it's all planned and happens because the Master Chief knows how to, but chooses to call it "luck" simply because that's how Cortana is.

For all you idiots wondering who is better, chief or Noble 6... play the freaking games. In the end, Noble 6 failed his/her mission, the Master Chief had a hand in ending the Human - Covenant war, defeating the flood, and preventing the Halo Array from being fired.

Noble 6 died on Reach.

If you ask me who would win in a fight between Noble 6 and Master Chief, I'd say it'd be a good tie. But Noble 6 was a grunt, and John was the leader of the Spartan II's.


I think you raise a good point in that first part of your pot UNOCK. I think there's a fine line between what is just pure and lucky chance with Chief, and what is just skill. And I think "luck" is something that can in a sense be tangible and measured, it may not actually be luck, that may just be the word that best describes it because no one really knows what precisely it is. A line in Cryptum really struck home the first time I read it, but I didn't remember it. The Didact makes a remark about the Librarian "Luck is her way" is what he says. That tells me that there is some force or providence or whatever that can't really be described except as Luck.

And then you lose it UNOCK. Noble Six didn't fail anything, in fact she succeeded in her mission. Her final mission was to get the fragment of Cortana from Halsey's lab safely to the Autumn and to make sure that the ship got away safely. Both of those succeeded. So Six didn't fail anything.

If she and John had their places exchanged, then everything in the Trilogy would have still happened, the end results would be the same because Six and John are completely equal.

And lots of SIIs died on Reach, that doesn't make them any worse than anyone who did survive. Chief would have died on Reach too if he had been in Six's position.

Noble Six was not some grunt, she's exactly the same as any Spartan II, otherwise she wouldn't have been pulled from Beta Company before Operation TORPEDO.

  • 07.08.2011 9:00 AM PDT

How did I escape? With difficulty. How did I plan this moment? With pleasure.

Those looking for a group to join, I suggest you join Gamma Company Spartans (check my groups page). We are a friendly and active community always looking for more members.

Because they just play the games (usually not even all of them) and aren't fanboys that read all the books and get as much info as they can. Or they are just ignorant.

  • 07.08.2011 9:06 AM PDT

And on the seven7h day......


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: IBumpElectro
Thats weird...in Halseys journal that came with the Limited edition of reach she writes that there was one spartan that stood out. one that was best at everything Spartan 117.


Doubt it, Kelly could outrun him any day, Linda could outsnipe him, Kurt could out-lead him(sp?), Fred could beat him in CQC, etc, etc. If I remember well, Fred always came up in second place in everything, John even mentions that he did it because he didn't want the attention, so if there is a "best" Spartan, that'd be Fred.


Exactly

  • 07.08.2011 11:27 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

You're absolutely right. Halsey mentioned that John wasn't an exceptional Spartan, but he was always the luckiest and one of the best leaders. When Halsey observed John as a "kid," these traits were undeniable.

It's just that most people here aren't too familiar with the Halo canon.

  • 07.08.2011 11:37 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: RuthlessMiguel24
Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

The chief failed to protect Reach as well.

  • 07.08.2011 11:38 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: RuthlessMiguel24
Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

The chief failed to protect Reach as well.


He succeeded his mission ,the defense of Reach was in hands of the fleet commanders and we all know that Humans barely will against covies.

Because ruthlessmiguel said something retarded doesn't means you should follow him

  • 07.08.2011 11:47 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: RuthlessMiguel24
Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

The chief failed to protect Reach as well.


He succeeded his mission ,the defense of Reach was in hands of the fleet commanders and we all know that Humans barely will against covies.

Because ruthlessmiguel said something retarded doesn't means you should follow him

Spartan Red Team failed to protect Reach as well...

Honestly, Blue Team's mission wasn't to protect Reach, it was to destroy some data, and they succeeded in that, but ALL Spartans failed in protecting Reach.

  • 07.08.2011 11:54 AM PDT

"The strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack."

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me..."

ODST for life

While I agree that John, Spartan 117 is more on the average side than the elite in terms of Spartans' overall skills/rating/etc., he does have one thing that separates him from the rest of the Spartans...

He has luck.

And sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

  • 07.08.2011 2:10 PM PDT

""We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up and ruthlessly destroyed. And our answer is at hand."

Okay, 117 has two distinct advantages over almost every other SPARTAN (besides Cortana of course). These are exceptional leadership (Kurt and Fred both displayed moments of greatness here but typically John was the de facto squad leader of the SPARTANS). And second and more importantly was his luck/ fate and helping him succeed. I think also people became attached to John as they played him.

The reason the Chief did so well on his "own" was because he still had teammates, Cortana was chiefly (excuse the pun) the biggest tactical advantage that humanity had, the link between her and John. She could link up with others but theirs was the most in sync.

In my opinion however, Fred was the best. He was the second best in everything, he was the most well-rounded and one of the only SPARTANS to survive as long as John did.

  • 07.08.2011 3:35 PM PDT
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I hope this is trolling..

John was the other hyper-lethal rated Spartan. And he was also the luckiest Spartan. You can't forget that. Luck plays a huge role in the outcome of any situation.

  • 07.08.2011 3:41 PM PDT

Yeah, they mentioned that in the book, but John also saved humanity from the Covenant and the flood. I'm pretty sure that makes him an exceptional spartan.

  • 07.08.2011 3:50 PM PDT
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Your friendly and eccentric Sangheili forum-poster. :)

Even the books say that Fred was better than John in nearly every way, it's just that Fred "didn't like the attention". Since John was second place, he got the leader and all that, whilst Fred just led a separate team whenever the Spartan-IIs split up.

When I look at it, each surviving Spartan (and even some of the ones that died) have their own little trait to make themselves stand out from the others.

John had an unbelievable amount of luck.

Fred was also a good leader and soldier, but just didn't like the attention.

Linda was the best sharpshooter.

Kelly was the fastest.

Kurt could 'sense' ambushes and traps by generally having a bad feeling just before it happened. Not to mention that he was a great leader for the Spartan-IIIs.

I'll bet that some other community members can add to that little list, too. Oh, and just to add to your last bit, actually the other Spartan with the "hyper lethal" rating WAS John.

[Edited on 07.08.2011 4:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.08.2011 4:10 PM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"

He was an average Spartan. There are others with more specialized experience and skill in many areas than him but what separates him from the rest is his ability to lead.

I've seen Kurt mentioned here as well, and would go as far to say that Kurt was right up there with John in terms of leadership. When I read Ghosts of Onyx, I really liked Kurt because his characteristics were nearly identical to John.

  • 07.08.2011 4:10 PM PDT
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@spasticwonder

Yes, but when Dr. Halsey went to John's school he was stronger than all the other kids. He also was able to tell which way the quarter was gonna land. This could just be luck, but I think it meant something to Dr. Halsey.

[Edited on 07.08.2011 4:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.08.2011 4:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: RuthlessMiguel24
Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

The chief failed to protect Reach as well.


He succeeded his mission ,the defense of Reach was in hands of the fleet commanders and we all know that Humans barely will against covies.

Because ruthlessmiguel said something retarded doesn't means you should follow him

Spartan Red Team failed to protect Reach as well...

Honestly, Blue Team's mission wasn't to protect Reach, it was to destroy some data, and they succeeded in that, but ALL Spartans failed in protecting Reach.


Indeed. And even then, Master Chief had no other objective than to defend Reach, at the time. Noble Six had several, all of which he succeeded.

  • 07.08.2011 4:21 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: RuthlessMiguel24
Chief crashed onto the surface of Earth after jumping from a Covenant ship (moving god knows how fast), got up, destroyed the Ark and took down the Covenant. However... all of Noble Team died (idk 'bout Jun), They let Reach get destroyed, and they hit the ground from a 2 story building and die... Let's just say I'm gonna go with the Chief in a fight.

The chief failed to protect Reach as well.


He succeeded his mission ,the defense of Reach was in hands of the fleet commanders and we all know that Humans barely will against covies.

Because ruthlessmiguel said something retarded doesn't means you should follow him

Spartan Red Team failed to protect Reach as well...

Honestly, Blue Team's mission wasn't to protect Reach, it was to destroy some data, and they succeeded in that, but ALL Spartans failed in protecting Reach.


Indeed. And even then, Master Chief had no other objective than to defend Reach, at the time. Noble Six had several, all of which he succeeded.


His objective was to delete the navedatabase,they succeeded in that one.

  • 07.08.2011 4:33 PM PDT

Posted by: hotshot revan II
His objective was to delete the navedatabase,they succeeded in that one.

Right, forgot that one. But Noble Six still had several. (Defense of Sword Base, Visegrad, Viery, Delivering Cortana, Saving PoA, the list goes on...)

  • 07.08.2011 4:37 PM PDT


Posted by: jonesy90000

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Me 001
he's motivated as hell
i guess it's a subconscious "i must never lose. ever." kind of thing


Implying no other spartan had that.


In the book fall of reach Johns urge to never lose is shown to be greater than anyone else s.


And how do you determine that?

A "I must never lose." urge does not promise victory.

  • 07.08.2011 5:13 PM PDT

Never will I be welcomed, amongst the heartless monsters you surround yourself with, feeding off the pain and misfortune of others, a maniacal breed of sub-human parasites, thrown into a feeding frenzy with the smell of fresh blood, open your eyes and see the creatures for what they are, a swirling mass of hatred and envy, and do not be naïve enough to think you are unaffected, the conversion has already begun.

None other than John could have carried out John's success to par. All people are different and, therefore, think differently, thus leading to a completely separate story if John was replaced. The only one who could successfully carry out John's mission to par was John, and he did.

[Edited on 07.11.2011 12:32 AM PDT]

  • 07.11.2011 12:27 AM PDT

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He had luck.

  • 07.11.2011 12:40 AM PDT

I think it's pretty safe to say that John is an exceptional Spartan. He just wasn't the only exceptional Spartan.

  • 07.11.2011 6:50 AM PDT


Posted by: NAStheMagiking
I think it's pretty safe to say that John is an exceptional Spartan. He just wasn't the only exceptional Spartan.


Agreed.

  • 07.11.2011 11:56 PM PDT

blarg

cortana states that he has SUP3R5 1UCK which nener runs out.(exaggeration)

  • 07.12.2011 12:03 AM PDT