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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
  • Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Well I would argue that if we are talking about Halo, this would be the UNSC/Covenant from the Halo fiction. Unless you want to make it SW vs. Forerunners. That's entirely different. But, IMO, it is only fair to make it the UNSC/Covenant.

It is unfair to put an ancient alien race with ages, possibly even epoch's of advancement against one with only perhaps a millenia or two. It is like arguing whether or not King Arthur could beat today's military with his own army.


Ironically
It's not fair to put two young space faring factions against a galaxy that had over 25000 years of tech development.
UNSC were only spacefaring for hundredsd of years,the covies for a few thousands but didn't innovated much because of the prophets stupidy.

Also it's as if people think Forerunners aren't from Halo.They act as if Halo=Covies and UNSC while the ancient races are from an alternate universe.

  • 05.07.2011 2:39 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Ironically
It's not fair to put two young space faring factions against a galaxy that had over 25000 years of tech development.
UNSC were only spacefaring for hundredsd of years,the covies for a few thousands but didn't innovated much because of the prophets stupidy.

Also it's as if people think Forerunners aren't from Halo.They act as if Halo=Covies and UNSC while the ancient races are from an alternate universe.

First off, the UNSC's/Covenant technology and the Empire's tech are at least still within a reasonable range of each other. They are all technically Type I civilizations (we currently aren't even Type 1 in reality). The Forerunners and Precursors are possibly Type II and Type III respectively. That is more my point. Another good example for perspective would be that the Federation in Star Trek is basically a Type II civilization (be it only recently so, and mostly only during the tail-end of the Original Series and during The Next Generation).

  • 05.07.2011 2:48 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Also it's as if people think Forerunners aren't from Halo.They act as if Halo=Covies and UNSC while the ancient races are from an alternate universe.


No, it's actually called "People use the well known, and more explained factions that are the current powers of Halo" aka, Covenant and UNSC.

We only have Vague references of what the different Forerunner things can do, at least from what I've read in this thread.

Of course, it doesn't help when you are all like "Forerunners win!" *plugs ears*.

  • 05.07.2011 6:28 AM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: hotshot revan II
Ironically
It's not fair to put two young space faring factions against a galaxy that had over 25000 years of tech development.
UNSC were only spacefaring for hundredsd of years,the covies for a few thousands but didn't innovated much because of the prophets stupidy.

Also it's as if people think Forerunners aren't from Halo.They act as if Halo=Covies and UNSC while the ancient races are from an alternate universe.

First off, the UNSC's/Covenant technology and the Empire's tech are at least still within a reasonable range of each other. They are all technically Type I civilizations (we currently aren't even Type 1 in reality). The Forerunners and Precursors are possibly Type II and Type III respectively. That is more my point. Another good example for perspective would be that the Federation in Star Trek is basically a Type II civilization (be it only recently so, and mostly only during the tail-end of the Original Series and during The Next Generation).


I thought a Type III was still constrained to their home galaxy; Precursors weren't.

(For those who don't know:

Type I: Civilization with full control over a single planet's resources and energy

Type II: Civilization with full control over a solar system's resource and energy (and use over the accumlative power equal to a star)

Type III: Control over an entire galaxy's resources and energy

Theoretical Type IV: Full control over a galactic cluster.

Theoretical Type V: Full control over the universe and physics (I read it as they write the rules on the universe, with complete control over ever facet of it.)

Theoretical Type VI: Control over everything ever conceived, be it dimensions or all the multiverses. Ever. No other being is greater then these. Imagine Q mixed with God with a little Downstreamer thrown in there.)

We know the UNSC controlled 800+ worlds, they seem to be more Type II imo. Forerunners being Type III, with the extragalactic Precursors a Type IV, but possibly Type V. The philosophy and science that the Precursors use--the mind and life is one with the universe--and the implications of that science seems to fit a Type V quite well.

And no, I do not think a UNSC/Covenant vs Star Wars is fair at all in any way. A lot of the Wars defenders seem to understand one of the first rules of war: if at all possible, deny your enemy the right to his/her most valuable assests and resources.

As it is, the thread's title is "Star Wars vs Halo , not Star Wars vs Contemporary Halo.

  • 05.07.2011 6:40 AM PDT

Only, you forget we are actually limiting the Star Wars to basically the Empire of the movies.

Edit: Also, again, we don't accurately know WHAT the Forerunner ships/other things can completely do. The quotes I've seen are kinda vague on the matter.

I also talked to my friend who has cryptum and guess what? He disagreed with your "Planet killing fightercraft." and "War Sphinx's can single-handedly melt/slag an entire continent."

[Edited on 05.07.2011 7:10 AM PDT]

  • 05.07.2011 6:56 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Only, you forget we are actually limiting the Star Wars to basically the Empire of the movies.

Edit: Also, again, we don't accurately know WHAT the Forerunner ships/other things can completely do. The quotes I've seen are kinda vague on the matter.

I also talked to my friend who has cryptum and guess what? He disagreed with your "Planet killing fightercraft." and "War Sphinx's can single-handedly melt/slag an entire continent."


As the cruise's fusion drives went crutical,a compact sun blossomed on the surface of Halo.It's thermonuclear sphere carved a five kilometer crater into the superdense ring material and sent powerful pressure waves rippling throughout the structure.Both up and down spin of the explosion,the fireball flattened and sterilized the surface terrain.Within moments,the yellow-white core had consumed all of the available fuel,collapsed upon itself,and winked out.
Still spinnig,but unable to withstand the forces exerted on this weak ponit,the ring structure slowly tore itself apart.Huge chucks of debris tumbled end over end out into space,as a five-hundred-kilometer long sections of the ring's world hull sliced through an even longer curve of brilliantly engineered metal,earth and water and produced a cascade of eerily silent explosion.








Halo cryptum pg 129
The first fortress's fighters moved in,surrounding one of the primed Halos and engaging its sentinels.Simultaneously,four cruisers sent white-hot beams to points around the targeted installation.Setninels intercepted some of those beams,partially deflecting them but also absorbing and sacrificing.Other beams struck home,carving canyonlike gouges across the mottled inner surface and blowing blue-white plumed of debris and plasma from the edges.The interior spokes began to shimmer and fade.The Halo could not hold together against this onslaught.It bent inward,wobbled.Fascinated,i watched as hge sections of the ring twisted like ribbon,giving away to destructive nodes of resonance,then rippled in sinus waves and separated with agonizing majesty



Halo Cryptum pg 320

Even before it had emerged halfway,the fortress began to loose clouds of fighters-at this distancenthey resembled a puff of pollen from a flower-and fire it's weapons in a sequential radiance.The inner curve of the Halo,even protected by waves of hard light,could not stand up long to this assault from within it's own radius.
The fortress's commanders and ancillas must have known they were dooming themself as well as the Halo.The installation began a spectacular disintegrative sequence.The visible half of the ring bent in opposite directions,then shattered into five great arc.




Those weapons were far more powerful then the Autumns detonation.The autumn only created a 5 km crater into the rings material,even then it couldn't destroy the ring but because of that weak point,the ring destroyed itself.

Now compare that to the Forerunner ships,who destroyed it with sheer strenght alone,yet the rings were protected by hard light.

The width of a ring is 1000 km,the explosion of the POA was 5 times larger then the width,which means a fireball with a radius of 5000 km,according to the SD.net calculator,it equals 10 petatons.

-Strawman

I already admitted my mistake with the warsphinx slagging continets.But the near destruction of the prophet homeworld is a fact and a quote of it was provided a few pages ago.

  • 05.07.2011 8:11 AM PDT

My friend told me that battle raged for 50 some years as well at the capital of the Prophet/human empire.

The one quote I read of it didn't mention fightercraft with that much power...

[Edited on 05.07.2011 8:36 AM PDT]

  • 05.07.2011 8:34 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
My friend told me that battle raged for 50 some years as well.


The prophet rebellion?

  • 05.07.2011 8:37 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Ah i see.The quote we provived was about the prophet rebellion,which was finished in a matter of days or shorter.

That 50 years,is the last battle between the 4runners and Humans.

And while it's true that quote didn't said anything about fighters did that ...it shows divots lifting up the crust and so.

But the planet was invaved by seekers(new war pshinxes) and some flying crafts..there is a quote for that but i don't have that book now with me.

  • 05.07.2011 8:40 AM PDT

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And the humans were using precursor buildings to their advantage. Even the forerunners can't do anything against those!

  • 05.07.2011 10:04 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I thought a Type III was still constrained to their home galaxy; Precursors weren't.

(For those who don't know:

Type I: Civilization with full control over a single planet's resources and energy

Type II: Civilization with full control over a solar system's resource and energy (and use over the accumlative power equal to a star)

Type III: Control over an entire galaxy's resources and energy

Theoretical Type IV: Full control over a galactic cluster.

Theoretical Type V: Full control over the universe and physics (I read it as they write the rules on the universe, with complete control over ever facet of it.)

Theoretical Type VI: Control over everything ever conceived, be it dimensions or all the multiverses. Ever. No other being is greater then these. Imagine Q mixed with God with a little Downstreamer thrown in there.)

We know the UNSC controlled 800+ worlds, they seem to be more Type II imo. Forerunners being Type III, with the extragalactic Precursors a Type IV, but possibly Type V. The philosophy and science that the Precursors use--the mind and life is one with the universe--and the implications of that science seems to fit a Type V quite well.

And no, I do not think a UNSC/Covenant vs Star Wars is fair at all in any way. A lot of the Wars defenders seem to understand one of the first rules of war: if at all possible, deny your enemy the right to his/her most valuable assests and resources.

As it is, the thread's title is "Star Wars vs Halo , not Star Wars vs Contemporary Halo.

A Type II civilization would require their technology to be capable of feats such as a Dyson Sphere (aka, the ability to harness the power of a star). The UNSC and Covenant cannot do so, therefore they are mid-late Type I civilizations. The same can be said for Star Wars seeing as they also do not have the power to do this (at least from what I have seen they don't).

The only current example of a civilization beyond Type III is the Q Continuum from Star Trek. Complete and utter control of the universe at hand.

I don't know much about the Precursors but I am sure the Forerunners weren't quite that powerful if they were still limited to ships and slipspace. But still, this scale speaks the ability to harness energy from the universe. Merely owning worlds doesn't mean you are harnessing the universe's energy.

  • 05.07.2011 11:14 AM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

The only current example of a civilization beyond Type III is the Q Continuum from Star Trek. Complete and utter control of the universe at hand.

What about the Ascended Ancients?

  • 05.07.2011 11:33 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

The only current example of a civilization beyond Type III is the Q Continuum from Star Trek. Complete and utter control of the universe at hand.

What about the Ascended Ancients?

That would also be something similar. Problem with them is I don't really know how much influence they have over reality. They mostly just manipulate people.

  • 05.07.2011 1:29 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

The only current example of a civilization beyond Type III is the Q Continuum from Star Trek. Complete and utter control of the universe at hand.

What about the Ascended Ancients?

That would also be something similar. Problem with them is I don't really know how much influence they have over reality. They mostly just manipulate people.

They have a firm non-interference policy, so I guess we'll never find out...

  • 05.07.2011 1:47 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
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Well as of right now I'm making a fan fition about star wars versus halo. 4 ships entered the tatooine system. The Didact's planet-breaker, a mining ship, a builder ship and a fortress-class vessel. They've destroyed an imperial star destroyer and retrived information from ships, inhabitants and imperials as well as databases. They are building sentinel construction facilities and have blown up the habitable area of tatooine. It will be transformed into a giant lake. Many mining facilities are being built.

  • 05.08.2011 11:17 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Ah i see.The quote we provived was about the prophet rebellion,which was finished in a matter of days or shorter.

That 50 years,is the last battle between the 4runners and Humans.

And while it's true that quote didn't said anything about fighters did that ...it shows divots lifting up the crust and so.

But the planet was invaved by seekers(new war pshinxes) and some flying crafts..there is a quote for that but i don't have that book now with me.


Thats what I was looking for. I couldn't rightly remember the name they gave the modernzed Sphinxes that attacked Jangur Qom, so I gave them the name starfighter.

Though they seem to fit the role quite well. Small, speedy and deadly.

  • 05.08.2011 11:25 AM PDT
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Well, since the Pillar of Autumn is in two places at once, the Halo Universe implodes.

These threads are idiotic and always result in super-weapon usage over and over again.

  • 05.08.2011 11:30 AM PDT


Posted by: MMO
Well, since the Pillar of Autumn is in two places at once, the Halo Universe implodes.

These threads are idiotic and always result in super-weapon usage over and over again.


Agree'd.

  • 05.08.2011 11:37 AM PDT

these threads always descend into a super-weapon slugging match, either that or almighty beings and 'force' arguments. look at it with some reasoning for once, break it down into segments, for example on the ground who wins? in the air in atmosphere who wins? in space who wins? and so forth.

in space I think it would be hard to call, since things like Longsword bomber are big attack craft that carry some heavy hitting loads sometimes including nuclear ordnance, so they could be an issue for larger Imperial ships. don't think TIE fighters are much of a match for anything to be honest, five TIE fighters against five YSS-1000 Sabres I think there can only be one winner and its not the TIE squadron. same sort of debate applies to a Star Destroyer, can something like a Marathon take one on in combat? its impossible to know since Covenant laser weapons aren't that effective against human ships with lots of armour plating, so its hard to know whether Imperial weapons would be any more effective. same thing applies to MAC rounds, would the penetrate the shields or wouldn't they? the A wing fighter that nails the Executor seems to have no trouble penetrating and that is less massive and moving slower than a MAC round would likely be.

as fascinating as it would be to have an objective debate about it, I don't think this is a possible comparison. there will always be too much mention of Death Stars and Halos, even in the more generic sort of stuff you'll always have the Star Wars guys going on about how lasers in the Star Wars universe are super, mega, ultima high powered, yet fail to do any damage to anything! and try to explain their way around how an AT-ST walker gets nailed by a bunch of hairy midgets with a couple of logs. on the other end of the spectrum you'll always get the SPARTANS will kill this and that, so unless we do it from a neutral point of view, judging it on what we KNOW (not 'official figures' that are totally contradictory to evidence, i.e. Star Wars lasers) then it should be closed and never brought up again...

  • 05.08.2011 1:59 PM PDT

A friend of mine, DevilsPriest, has done some 'research' into those details, I can ask him to come back in here if you want to read what he found out.

About the A-wing though, the shields on the Executor were down when it went through the bridge.

  • 05.08.2011 2:01 PM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

in space I think it would be hard to call, since things like Longsword bomber are big attack craft that carry some heavy hitting loads sometimes including nuclear ordnance, so they could be an issue for larger Imperial ships. don't think TIE fighters are much of a match for anything to be honest, five TIE fighters against five YSS-1000 Sabres I think there can only be one winner and its not the TIE squadron. same sort of debate applies to a Star Destroyer, can something like a Marathon take one on in combat? its impossible to know since Covenant laser weapons aren't that effective against human ships with lots of armour plating, so its hard to know whether Imperial weapons would be any more effective. same thing applies to MAC rounds, would the penetrate the shields or wouldn't they? the A wing fighter that nails the Executor seems to have no trouble penetrating and that is less massive and moving slower than a MAC round would likely be.

as fascinating as it would be to have an objective debate about it, I don't think this is a possible comparison. there will always be too much mention of Death Stars and Halos, even in the more generic sort of stuff you'll always have the Star Wars guys going on about how lasers in the Star Wars universe are super, mega, ultima high powered, yet fail to do any damage to anything! and try to explain their way around how an AT-ST walker gets nailed by a bunch of hairy midgets with a couple of logs. on the other end of the spectrum you'll always get the SPARTANS will kill this and that, so unless we do it from a neutral point of view, judging it on what we KNOW (not 'official figures' that are totally contradictory to evidence, i.e. Star Wars lasers) then it should be closed and never brought up again...


I have done my homework in the regard of space and ground combat, The empire utilizes weapons much like a beam rifle. The UNSC and covenant shielding tech is unable to hold against a single shot let alone a barrage of shots from a blaster rifle. The emprie also utilizes a stronger armor for their soldiers then titaium. I believe it is a variant of durasteel which is vastly superior to titainum.

Now vehicle's...obviously the empire has the edge in that regard all of their weapons are blaster tech but on a larger scale and from seeing durasteel get chunks blown out of it or the turrets on hoth being blown apart in a single shot, which would have been made from a titanium or durasteel, I can honestly say that anything the Covenant or UNSC throws will be destroyed with little to no effort. I can realisticly see one or two AT-PT's going down or AT-ST's from a Scarab tank but that's about it (Perhaps an At-At because honestly those things sucked compared to the AT-TE).

Now for the fun bit, space. A saber would have little trouble with a tie-fighter squadron as a tie fighter squad would also have little trouble with a saber because of the weapons and armor plating works for both. As well as the weak as hell shields on a Saber when compared to a tie fighters weapons. The more advanced models in the TIE series would have little trouble against UNSC and Covie fighters.

Now there is no debate for an imperial star destroyer fighting against a fleet of UNSC or Covie ships. The Empire has the upper hand in that regard. Covenant ships would not be able to damage an imperial class star destroyer because...as all ships in the SW universe. It has DEFLECTOR shields, these shields defend against turbo lasors much more powerful then the simple plasma batteries on a Covenant war ship and said turbo lasors would quickly rip a Covenant ship in half, same goes for a UNSC ship though they would be the more dangerous foe seeing as a MAC gun can gut an imperial stardestroyer due to the main design flaw of deflector shields, they aren't designed for Mass Accelerator Weapons and a MAC blast if aimed correctly would gut the star destroy in a single blast.

Now the only issue is they have one shot before a Star destroyer could get in range and rip them too pieces however and on top of that they would also need to align the gun which would waste time.

The only possible way for the UNSC or Covenant to achieve a victory is gurellia warfare.

None of this is bias'd but all based off of what I had been researching over the past little while. No superweapons, no B.S. that I just randomly pulled out of a hat but fact that I've been reading about. If you want sources for Imperial Tech simply ask and I'll deliver.

Also considering the A-wing was a small attack craft and there was a battle going on around the Executer, I'm pretty sure that was a resonable outcome. If there wasn't a massive battle then the A-wing would not have made it although it appears that one scene has to be used as a reference with people ignoring what was going on around the ship.

[Edited on 05.08.2011 3:53 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2011 3:50 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Devils Preists
I have done my homework in the regard of space and ground combat, The empire utilizes weapons much like a beam rifle. The UNSC and covenant shielding tech is unable to hold against a single shot let alone a barrage of shots from a blaster rifle. The emprie also utilizes a stronger armor for their soldiers then titaium. I believe it is a variant of durasteel which is vastly superior to titainum.

Now vehicle's...obviously the empire has the edge in that regard all of their weapons are blaster tech but on a larger scale and from seeing durasteel get chunks blown out of it or the turrets on hoth being blown apart in a single shot, which would have been made from a titanium or durasteel, I can honestly say that anything the Covenant or UNSC throws will be destroyed with little to no effort. I can realisticly see one or two AT-PT's going down or AT-ST's from a Scarab tank but that's about it (Perhaps an At-At because honestly those things sucked compared to the AT-TE).

Now for the fun bit, space. A saber would have little trouble with a tie-fighter squadron as a tie fighter squad would also have little trouble with a saber because of the weapons and armor plating works for both. As well as the weak as hell shields on a Saber when compared to a tie fighters weapons. The more advanced models in the TIE series would have little trouble against UNSC and Covie fighters.

Now there is no debate for an imperial star destroyer fighting against a fleet of UNSC or Covie ships. The Empire has the upper hand in that regard. Covenant ships would not be able to damage an imperial class star destroyer because...as all ships in the SW universe. It has DEFLECTOR shields, these shields defend against turbo lasors much more powerful then the simple plasma batteries on a Covenant war ship and said turbo lasors would quickly rip a Covenant ship in half, same goes for a UNSC ship though they would be the more dangerous foe seeing as a MAC gun can gut an imperial stardestroyer due to the main design flaw of deflector shields, they aren't designed for Mass Accelerator Weapons and a MAC blast if aimed correctly would gut the star destroy in a single blast.

Now the only issue is they have one shot before a Star destroyer could get in range and rip them too pieces however and on top of that they would also need to align the gun which would waste time.

The only possible way for the UNSC or Covenant to achieve a victory is gurellia warfare.

None of this is bias'd but all based off of what I had been researching over the past little while. No superweapons, no B.S. that I just randomly pulled out of a hat but fact that I've been reading about. If you want sources for Imperial Tech simply ask and I'll deliver.

Also considering the A-wing was a small attack craft and there was a battle going on around the Executer, I'm pretty sure that was a resonable outcome. If there wasn't a massive battle then the A-wing would not have made it although it appears that one scene has to be used as a reference with people ignoring what was going on around the ship.

There are two things this doesn't take into consideration. First, how well can Star Wars shielding deal with missiles, nuclear ordinance as well as plasma based weaponry. Second, the human factor. While they may have better tech, the Halo Universe has proven that cunning and resourcefulness can easily change the odds (in fact, Star Wars has also proven this fact). If it is merely an argument of technology, sure Star Wars may indeed win. But when it comes to a straight battle there are many factors that cannot be measured. And I think some of that may come down to the difference in AI technology between the UNSC and the Empire. The Empire has vast amounts of AI's in use, but by the UNSC's definition they would be placed between dumb and smart AI's seeing as they are all made for a purpose (but still have a form of sentience).

Then again, I know little about the Star Wars AI tech beyond its use. And for the most part it is used in direct application rather than the UNSC's more cloud like implications.

  • 05.08.2011 5:25 PM PDT

Galen Marek wins.

  • 05.08.2011 5:31 PM PDT

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How about elites are already equivalent to jedi?

  • 05.08.2011 5:31 PM PDT