Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
  • Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
All this talk of uberpowered weapons, and I completely failed to consider this...

Forerunner Ancilla are massively powerful, right?

Just have two or three hack into a Imperial fleet and turn said fleet on their own allies. Have said Ancilla operating on fleet control mode, sending Star Destroyers crashing into each other and opening fire on each other, second one ship is destroyed, relinquish control and start working on hacking another one.


Yeah! And then just have all the Force users to have ever existed to combine their power to mind control those Forerunner! Or better yet, just have them disintegrate every thing that dares oppose them in the Haloverse from a galaxy away!

What the... what the hell is wrong with you?

EDIT: In the end, it won't matter, the Ancilla would still hack into the GE's systems and bring them down. Followed shortly by the rest of the Star Wars galaxy. Especially as how the AIs have nothing to lose now.


Yeah, you're probably right. I mean what can the Force really do to them once they've been ripped apart atom by atom? They'll easily hack and take control of the ships after that since they'll pretty much be invulnerable to anything in that state.

Forerunner Ancilla are interlinked with slipspace. Unless you can give me definite proof that the Jedi/Sith can screw with slipspace...

  • 05.08.2011 6:57 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
This is part of the reason duels between characters are difficult. I've never seen evidence to suggest a group of Jedi can mind control an entire race with a population like the Forerunners.

Just because "well, it CAN happen" doesn't mean it would. Jedi play defensively, not offensively.


Well, it wouldn't only be Jedi, and mind control would be defensive. Creating a Force lightning storm or simply pulling them apart particle by particle would be up to Sith and users of the Dark side.

But yeah, this is why the whole Star Wars vs Halo universe clash is ultimately just immeasurable. Because the Force can't be destroyed, and when you've got every Force user ever, which would amount to the billions all influencing the thing that binds and penetrates everything in existence, it's just ridiculous. Especially when there's Sith who've done the thing I described on their own.

And then that unstoppable Force collides with an immovable object, the Precursors. Every thread it's brought up that the Precursors things couldn't be destroyed except by neurophysics(?). And the Halo side stands by this. And while it's my logical belief that their things are no exception to the Force power, there's really no way of knowing. So the argument just hits a wall.

It's always fun anyway.

@Mattguyabove
The Force. It penetrates and binds all things. There's no reason slip space would be an exception. But then this is exactly why this is never resolved, because it's only logical that it would exist and still have an effect in slipspace, but then it's never confirmed in the canon. So I can't definitively say that it does, and you can't definitively say that it doesn't. Wall hit.

[Edited on 05.08.2011 7:03 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2011 6:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Course, that's assuming the Imperial fleet uses networked computers and cannot isolate the command functions from the rest of the ship. Or manually disconnect the engine controls.

And you know, that the imperial officers will go "Oh, our systems are being hacked. Let's sit here and do nothing at all."

So? Now the crews can't operate the guns w/out fear of friendly fire, nor fly around because of potential electronic possession.

  • 05.08.2011 6:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

i was once told a story.

in 2536, during a massive battle on the planet Hoth, Dia Th'Gir, a stormtrooper
at the time, was aboard one of the ships in a monsterous fleet of star destroyers orbiting
the planet. when the rebels launched their counter-attack in a desperate attempt to evacuate their beseiged fortress world, a blast form one of the many Ion cannons on the planets surface tore a giant hole in the ships defences, just as a rebel transport was making the jump to slipspace. the transport didnt have enough time to evade the disabled star destroyer as it fell, and the rebel ship made the slipspace jump right through the star destoyers mid section. both ships were torn to peices, but because of the extreme density of the star destroyers hull, as well as other factors, large peices of the ship were flung into a blind jump, one of which headed stright towards a planet outside the know galaxy, a planet later discovered by the empire as Reach. Dia, as well as other stormtroopers were discovered and quickly brought to a nearby hospital for treatment. being from another galaxy, they were sent to Doctor Cathrine Halsey for research, where they would be genetically augmented in ways far superior to that which they had been subject to during their cloning, and transforemed into the first squadren
of hybrid Spartans. only 7 survived the process, but those whio did would go on to
fight the covonant on other worlds. in 2549 they would be called back to Reach for
what should have been something of a retirement until they were needed again. However
this would only last 3 years until, in early 2552, the covonant attacked the planet. It would be
here that the hybrid Spartans, also known as the Stormas, would make every effort to drive the covonant
onslaught away as they had done on so many other worlds before, until the bitter end.





So i do believe we have encountered a draw.

[Edited on 05.08.2011 7:05 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2011 7:03 PM PDT


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Course, that's assuming the Imperial fleet uses networked computers and cannot isolate the command functions from the rest of the ship. Or manually disconnect the engine controls.

And you know, that the imperial officers will go "Oh, our systems are being hacked. Let's sit here and do nothing at all."

So? Now the crews can't operate the guns w/out fear of friendly fire, nor fly around because of potential electronic possession.


You clearly know NOTHING of star destroyers then.

The heavy guns? Are ALL manually operated and have their own power supply.

The other guns? Can be switched to MANUAL targeting.

Course, this is even IF the Forerunner AI's manage to cause such chaos.

Now, if let's say, it was a Star Trek fleet, whose ships are massively computer run, that'd be -blam!- deadly. Star Wars? Probably not nearly as much as you'd like.

  • 05.08.2011 7:08 PM PDT

lol 69 for halo

  • 05.08.2011 7:43 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

The haloverse doesn't have the force so it can't really be used the same way with the haloverse. But how would things made out of materials from star wars interact with the force?

  • 05.08.2011 7:46 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Devils Preists
I have done my homework in the regard of space and ground combat, The empire utilizes weapons much like a beam rifle. The UNSC and covenant shielding tech is unable to hold against a single shot let alone a barrage of shots from a blaster rifle. The emprie also utilizes a stronger armor for their soldiers then titaium. I believe it is a variant of durasteel which is vastly superior to titainum.

Now vehicle's...obviously the empire has the edge in that regard all of their weapons are blaster tech but on a larger scale and from seeing durasteel get chunks blown out of it or the turrets on hoth being blown apart in a single shot, which would have been made from a titanium or durasteel, I can honestly say that anything the Covenant or UNSC throws will be destroyed with little to no effort. I can realisticly see one or two AT-PT's going down or AT-ST's from a Scarab tank but that's about it (Perhaps an At-At because honestly those things sucked compared to the AT-TE).

Now for the fun bit, space. A saber would have little trouble with a tie-fighter squadron as a tie fighter squad would also have little trouble with a saber because of the weapons and armor plating works for both. As well as the weak as hell shields on a Saber when compared to a tie fighters weapons. The more advanced models in the TIE series would have little trouble against UNSC and Covie fighters.

Now there is no debate for an imperial star destroyer fighting against a fleet of UNSC or Covie ships. The Empire has the upper hand in that regard. Covenant ships would not be able to damage an imperial class star destroyer because...as all ships in the SW universe. It has DEFLECTOR shields, these shields defend against turbo lasors much more powerful then the simple plasma batteries on a Covenant war ship and said turbo lasors would quickly rip a Covenant ship in half, same goes for a UNSC ship though they would be the more dangerous foe seeing as a MAC gun can gut an imperial stardestroyer due to the main design flaw of deflector shields, they aren't designed for Mass Accelerator Weapons and a MAC blast if aimed correctly would gut the star destroy in a single blast.

Now the only issue is they have one shot before a Star destroyer could get in range and rip them too pieces however and on top of that they would also need to align the gun which would waste time.

The only possible way for the UNSC or Covenant to achieve a victory is gurellia warfare.

None of this is bias'd but all based off of what I had been researching over the past little while. No superweapons, no B.S. that I just randomly pulled out of a hat but fact that I've been reading about. If you want sources for Imperial Tech simply ask and I'll deliver.

Also considering the A-wing was a small attack craft and there was a battle going on around the Executer, I'm pretty sure that was a resonable outcome. If there wasn't a massive battle then the A-wing would not have made it although it appears that one scene has to be used as a reference with people ignoring what was going on around the ship.

There are two things this doesn't take into consideration. First, how well can Star Wars shielding deal with missiles, nuclear ordinance as well as plasma based weaponry. Second, the human factor. While they may have better tech, the Halo Universe has proven that cunning and resourcefulness can easily change the odds (in fact, Star Wars has also proven this fact). If it is merely an argument of technology, sure Star Wars may indeed win. But when it comes to a straight battle there are many factors that cannot be measured. And I think some of that may come down to the difference in AI technology between the UNSC and the Empire. The Empire has vast amounts of AI's in use, but by the UNSC's definition they would be placed between dumb and smart AI's seeing as they are all made for a purpose (but still have a form of sentience).

Then again, I know little about the Star Wars AI tech beyond its use. And for the most part it is used in direct application rather than the UNSC's more cloud like implications.


Deflector shields are designed to take on things such as PLASMA, hence the fact that they are designed to deal with Radiation and extreme sources of heat along side projectle based weaponary, now I'm pretty sure there's no need to go into that any further then I already have.

Now honestly you are right, it fails to mention anything about nukes but I'm sure if they shields cannot take it (Which I doubt but in the odd case that I'm wrong) the armor plating would not take a vast amount of damage, or atleast not enough to cripple a Star destroyer.

Also I don't honestly know anything about the empire ever using AI's I'll actually have to look that up...because if they did have AI's I'm sure they'd be -blam!- poor because if the alliance is able to hack into this crap then I'm sure a UNSC AI can which could play a factor.

Also I did state that if the Covenant and UNSC went head on then they'd lose which is why I suggested Gurellia warfare.

Again all points were adressed to the best of my abilities and I can honestly say that the empire would win because honestly, they also have humans and humaniod aliens so you can't rule out that factor about the empire either.

[Edited on 05.08.2011 8:13 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2011 8:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Course, that's assuming the Imperial fleet uses networked computers and cannot isolate the command functions from the rest of the ship. Or manually disconnect the engine controls.

And you know, that the imperial officers will go "Oh, our systems are being hacked. Let's sit here and do nothing at all."

So? Now the crews can't operate the guns w/out fear of friendly fire, nor fly around because of potential electronic possession.


You clearly know NOTHING of star destroyers then.

The heavy guns? Are ALL manually operated and have their own power supply.

The other guns? Can be switched to MANUAL targeting.

Course, this is even IF the Forerunner AI's manage to cause such chaos.

Now, if let's say, it was a Star Trek fleet, whose ships are massively computer run, that'd be -blam!- deadly. Star Wars? Probably not nearly as much as you'd like.


Duh?

  • 05.08.2011 8:14 PM PDT

Wow isn't this painfully obvious that we just slip right back into Forerunner and Precursor B.S. because Starwars tech is vastly superior to Halo tech, quite honestly Halo side I would support you.

But you are all stupid as -blam!-. You bring out God races and super weapons and that forces the same on the Wars side. Hell then you pull -blam!- out of your ass and say it's fact when in reality all you're saying is bull -blam!- and you guys really need to stop with your insta I lose button Halo talk.

Wars fans are in the right here honestly, I mean they only get dragged down into the Haloverse fans stupidy and bias BS.

I am sick and tired of this BS because you know what the only reason you guys suck and always lose is because you have to resort to that BS. Spacebattles is Bias as -blam!- and I only rely on Star Destroyer.net for facts.

On a side note, Go back to worshipping Master chief you god damn cultists or kissing his ass or wishing you could marry him while you -Blam- it to a six ft poster of him.

Because I personally have never seen so many idiots in one area before under the Halo banner, but then again...these are the B-net forums where Master chief worshipping idiots who believe halo is the best and can never lose and even kill the LOL GOD POWERFUL force even though in reality the force would wreck there -blam!-, it saddens me so.

[Edited on 05.08.2011 8:24 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2011 8:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Murderous Clawz
Because I personally have never seen so many idiots in one area before under the Halo banner, but then again...these are the B-net forums where Master chief worshipping idiots who believe halo is the best and can never lose and even kill the LOL GOD POWERFUL force even though in reality the force would wreck there -blam!-, it saddens me so.


This.

  • 05.08.2011 8:26 PM PDT

Even if I hate to admit it but there is no way that halo can be that kind of godmodding power seeing as by definition that's all the force really is.

  • 05.08.2011 8:31 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Hm looks like someone is super immature...
Someone denies canon.

Speaking about precursors. I think that John's luck might be a gift from the precursors.

  • 05.08.2011 8:39 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan 100
Hm looks like someone is super immature...
Someone denies canon.

Speaking about precursors. I think that John's luck might be a gift from the precursors.


Indeed he used said immaturity to point out what's very obvious.

  • 05.08.2011 8:54 PM PDT


Posted by: Scorpians Wrath

Posted by: Spartan 100
Hm looks like someone is super immature...
Someone denies canon.

Speaking about precursors. I think that John's luck might be a gift from the precursors.


Indeed he used said immaturity to point out what's very obvious.


It's not that hard to deny canon about forerunners and precursors when there is little, if any information about what they can truly do.

  • 05.08.2011 9:19 PM PDT

1701D can kick all 'yalls arses. /thread

  • 05.08.2011 9:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

The Forerunners can [REDACTED] make a [REDACTED] TARDIS. Can the Jedi/Sith do this?

Also, take away the Force powers. What is the outcome?

  • 05.08.2011 11:54 PM PDT


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
The Forerunners can [REDACTED] make a [REDACTED] TARDIS. Can the Jedi/Sith do this?

Also, take away the Force powers. What is the outcome?


Uses item from I love Bees, which is considered Non-canon, or in canon limbo status.

So yeah, a non-bungie/343 post saying they can will not be simply believed by me.

  • 05.09.2011 4:57 AM PDT

halo becuase light sabers sever limbs and energy sword have instant kill.

  • 05.09.2011 5:01 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
This is part of the reason duels between characters are difficult. I've never seen evidence to suggest a group of Jedi can mind control an entire race with a population like the Forerunners.

Just because "well, it CAN happen" doesn't mean it would. Jedi play defensively, not offensively.


And sadly, far to many people use "Jedi" to describe "Force User"

Easier to say Jedi, but Jedi aren't the only bastards that can use the force :P.


I know. Even still, I've never seen such evidence to prove that any Force user is that strong. Starkiller is considered one of the most powerful Force userers ever and he's not that strong as people say these Jedi and Sith can get.

  • 05.09.2011 5:14 AM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
This is part of the reason duels between characters are difficult. I've never seen evidence to suggest a group of Jedi can mind control an entire race with a population like the Forerunners.

Just because "well, it CAN happen" doesn't mean it would. Jedi play defensively, not offensively.


Well, it wouldn't only be Jedi, and mind control would be defensive. Creating a Force lightning storm or simply pulling them apart particle by particle would be up to Sith and users of the Dark side.

But yeah, this is why the whole Star Wars vs Halo universe clash is ultimately just immeasurable. Because the Force can't be destroyed, and when you've got every Force user ever, which would amount to the billions all influencing the thing that binds and penetrates everything in existence, it's just ridiculous. Especially when there's Sith who've done the thing I described on their own.

And then that unstoppable Force collides with an immovable object, the Precursors. Every thread it's brought up that the Precursors things couldn't be destroyed except by neurophysics(?). And the Halo side stands by this. And while it's my logical belief that their things are no exception to the Force power, there's really no way of knowing. So the argument just hits a wall.

It's always fun anyway.

@Mattguyabove
The Force. It penetrates and binds all things. There's no reason slip space would be an exception. But then this is exactly why this is never resolved, because it's only logical that it would exist and still have an effect in slipspace, but then it's never confirmed in the canon. So I can't definitively say that it does, and you can't definitively say that it doesn't. Wall hit.


Another problem I see here: I had always been under the belief the Force exists because life exists in the universe, that life itself was the source of its power.

And if the Force is everywhere as you say, then the Precursors get uncontrolled access to it. Their philosophy and sciece alloud them complete understanding of the universe, which gave them the infinitely advanced technology they had. Since the Force binds the universe together, you'd think they know of it.

Which is why saying that rules in Star Wars like the infinite knowledge pool apply to Halo as well doesn't make any sense. So likewise, saying the Force penetrates slipspace makes little sense. Keep the rules specific to each others' respective universe.

Another thing I thought of: Intergalactic travel for the GFFA was impossible because of a hyper-space disturbance. So they wouldn't be on the offensive (The Yuuzhann Vong could, but the Flood would be watering at the mouth with them.)

  • 05.09.2011 5:22 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
The Forerunners can [REDACTED] make a [REDACTED] TARDIS. Can the Jedi/Sith do this?

Also, take away the Force powers. What is the outcome?


Uses item from I love Bees, which is considered Non-canon, or in canon limbo status.

So yeah, a non-bungie/343 post saying they can will not be simply believed by me.


The AI Mallissa that got sent back 400 years is directly stated in the Official Halo Encyclopedia to have happened.

  • 05.09.2011 5:30 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member
  • gamertag: AJF117
  • user homepage:

"Usually, the good Lord works in mysterious ways. But not today! This here is 66 tons of straight-up, H.E-spewing dee-vine intervention! If God is love, then you can call me Cupid!"

-Sgt. Johnson, Halo 2

deathstar

  • 05.09.2011 6:02 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
The Forerunners can [REDACTED] make a [REDACTED] TARDIS. Can the Jedi/Sith do this?

Also, take away the Force powers. What is the outcome?


Uses item from I love Bees, which is considered Non-canon, or in canon limbo status.

So yeah, a non-bungie/343 post saying they can will not be simply believed by me.


The AI Mallissa that got sent back 400 years is directly stated in the Official Halo Encyclopedia to have happened.


Oh? and I suppose this time travel could be done at will then?

Regardless, that 'build a Tardis' post has no real standing with me.

Edit: Infact, once again, it's proof of people saying "OH! the forerunners can do this!" with no backing.

Let's get back to UNSC/Covenant vs Empire/Republic.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 7:20 AM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 7:01 AM PDT

Personally, no Covenant ship could possibly take down a ISDII aside from MAYBE a Supercarrier. Here is a perfect comparison in size between the ships.

Size

Covenant may have size, but Empire has numbers and weaponry.

Best way to gauge survivability of Covenant ships is to look at what kinds of firepower they have withstood from the UNSC and what they have not.

The MAC gun on UNSC ships is generally said to be equivalent to 1.17 teratons of tnt, or 1.17% the impact force of the meteor that killed the dinosaurs. the Pillar of autumn can fire 3 slugs on one charge, the time it takes to charge is unknown but these 3 shots can down the shields of nearly any covenant ship.

The SMAC gun on orbital defense platforms are nearly 10x stronger than the shipboard variant, Cairo Station's gun had a firepower of 9.98 teratons, and can be observed taking 15 seconds between shots, these shots can perforate nearly any fully shielded covenant ship and heavily damage a Covenant supercarrier.

These give us upper limits on what Covenant ships can handle, what they can dish out is less important as long as they can withstand at least 1 salvo from another ship of the same class as themselves.

An Acclamator class assault ship from the clone wars, which carries over 16,000 troops and hundreds of support vehicles such as AT-TEs (which would slaughter Scarabs at range but are a bit more evenly matched, they can also be airdroped like Scarabs rather than the slower and heavier AT-ATs) and SPHA-T which in spite of being ground artillery carry similar levels of firepower as an SMAC.

The Acclamator's turbolasers carry 200 gigatons each, and can fire roughly 30-60 shots a minute, Acclamator shields can withstand 16.7 teratons of force second at peak efficiency, so it would take 2 Cairo stations to hit it simultaneously in order to penetrate, if the shots are so much as a split-second apart the Acclamator will withstand it but it's shields will feel the strain.

An Imperial II class star destroyer's firepower is never stated however it can be calculated. The ROTS:ICS states that all true warships can put their firepower into their weapons systems, comparing the reactor generation and fuel consumption of the Acclamator and Venator and scaling that to the Imperial II's reactor size. and assuming the Imperial II uses 1/3rd of it's power for weapons, shields and engines we are looking at 800 Teratons a second that it can dish out and take, the shields are so resilient that they will not fail for over half an hour even when being pounded by another ISD2.

An Imperial II Star Destroyer has 8 main octuple barreled guns, but it has 36 other turbolasers scattered across it's surface, and that doesn't include the 100+ point defense guns.

An SMAC like the kind on Cairo Station has 9x the firepower of a regular shipboard MAC, and can punch through nearly any covenant ship and come out the other side, and into another covenant ship if there is one behind it.

While the firepower of each individual Turbolaser on an Imperial II is unknown, the overall firepower can be determined using it's reactor power, which is 9,280,000,000,000 terawatts.

The Venator entry in the Cross sections books states that any true warship in star wars can redirect all of it's reactor power to the weapons if necessary, however we will assume it normally applies 1/3rd of this power to weapons, with the other 2/3rds of power being distributed amongst shields and engines.

This means that an ISDII can dish out roughly 740,000,000 megatons per second spread across it's guns.

put another way, that's 50,000,000,000x the power of hiroshima every second.

It takes the Covenant an entire fleet to glass a planet, a single star destroyer can achieve that in less time.

ISDII shields are designed to be able to withstand a full half an hour of another ISDII pounding the hell out of em with everything it's got.

Turbolasers can track ships up to 180,000,000 km away (roughly 10 light minutes) so their range is an order of magnitude higher.

Covenant Slipspace can cover 912 light years a day
Imperial Hyperdrive can cover 120,000 light years a day

The Covenant Navy has under ten thousand ships
The Imperial Navy has Millions

The ground troop count is simply astounding.

During the Clone Wars alone the Republic had approximately 10 quadrillion clones. (The ICS puts the Droid army in the quintillions and count dooku said the droids outnumber the clones by 100 to 1) the Stormtroopers outnumber the clones. The old 3,000,000 clone figure of Karen Traviss was retconned long ago, as was her entire take on Mandalorian culture, very little of her work is still canon due to her misconduct.

To put that into perspective, the Clones alone outnumber the covenant's entire army by over 500,000 to 1, there are also the SD-10 War droids and the XR-85 Tank Droids, both used by the empire and both are very,very lethal.

I posted this before, with little to no counter, go ahead.

  • 05.09.2011 2:50 PM PDT