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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
  • Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?
Subject: Halo vs Star Wars. Who wins?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
All of a Destroyers hardware spitting at once, not enough to level a city or vaporize a small sea, yet they have 50 gigatons per shot cannons that rain fire like a Venusian storm?


A bit odd, how did you conclude that they cannot vaporize an entire city or sea? In the old empires of the sith, a single cruiser destroyed most of Taris. While later during the Imperial era 3 Star Destroyers blew the atmosphere clear off the planet Dankayo and slagged the surface after less than an hour. Only reason it took 3 that long to do so was because each was performing double duty of bombardment and blockade, a single ISD could have done it but that would have left the other side of the planet free to evacuate while the side the ISD was pounding was atomized.

  • 07.09.2011 3:32 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
All of a Destroyers hardware spitting at once, not enough to level a city or vaporize a small sea, yet they have 50 gigatons per shot cannons that rain fire like a Venusian storm?


A bit odd, how did you conclude that they cannot vaporize an entire city or sea? In the old empires of the sith, a single cruiser destroyed most of Taris. While later during the Imperial era 3 Star Destroyers blew the atmosphere clear off the planet Dankayo and slagged the surface after less than an hour. Only reason it took 3 that long to do so was because each was performing double duty of bombardment and blockade, a single ISD could have done it but that would have left the other side of the planet free to evacuate while the side the ISD was pounding was atomized.


Seeing how in KOTOR, a single turbolaser blast from one of the ships literally vaporized a large chunk of a skyscraper...

  • 07.09.2011 3:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
All of a Destroyers hardware spitting at once, not enough to level a city or vaporize a small sea, yet they have 50 gigatons per shot cannons that rain fire like a Venusian storm?


A bit odd, how did you conclude that they cannot vaporize an entire city or sea? In the old empires of the sith, a single cruiser destroyed most of Taris. While later during the Imperial era 3 Star Destroyers blew the atmosphere clear off the planet Dankayo and slagged the surface after less than an hour. Only reason it took 3 that long to do so was because each was performing double duty of bombardment and blockade, a single ISD could have done it but that would have left the other side of the planet free to evacuate while the side the ISD was pounding was atomized.


Seeing how in KOTOR, a single turbolaser blast from one of the ships literally vaporized a large chunk of a skyscraper...
Exactly why they are considered the best anti-ship blast, estimated at around 4 times the strength of a shipboard MAC.

  • 07.09.2011 3:39 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
All of a Destroyers hardware spitting at once, not enough to level a city or vaporize a small sea, yet they have 50 gigatons per shot cannons that rain fire like a Venusian storm?


A bit odd, how did you conclude that they cannot vaporize an entire city or sea? In the old empires of the sith, a single cruiser destroyed most of Taris. While later during the Imperial era 3 Star Destroyers blew the atmosphere clear off the planet Dankayo and slagged the surface after less than an hour. Only reason it took 3 that long to do so was because each was performing double duty of bombardment and blockade, a single ISD could have done it but that would have left the other side of the planet free to evacuate while the side the ISD was pounding was atomized.


Seeing how in KOTOR, a single turbolaser blast from one of the ships literally vaporized a large chunk of a skyscraper...
Exactly why they are considered the best anti-ship blast, estimated at around 4 times the strength of a shipboard MAC.


It was not a single ship, it was a fleet. Asmiral Kareth says something along the lines of "our fleet is in position my lord, waiting for your command"

Edit: He said "Of....of course, Lord Malek, I will do as you command, but it will take several hours to position our fleet"

Followed by the destruction of a long, yet thin, city-scape. Whoop-de-doo. Have you seen the cover of Glasslands? Because according to The Old Republic, Taris is still habitable, and the buildings were not vaporized.

Besides, all I see is a single laser blast blowing off the roof of a building. We did that all the time in WWII.

And I'm not the one reaching that conclusion anyway; Master Chief Gunnery Sergeant Tenn Granet did, the operator for the Death Star laser. He himself is the weapons expert on the Death Star, and even he said the Star Destroyers couldn't level even a city, and thats EVEN if all the shots were fired at once.

And to mojelda: you say a single shot from KotoR's Leviathan was more powerful then a MAC?

So you mean to tell me each one of those shots was 256 kilotons? Because thats 4 times more powerful then a ship board MAC.

[Edited on 07.09.2011 4:24 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2011 4:21 PM PDT

Blowing off a roof?

What KOTOR did YOU play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpN4wl74CuE Show me a single building that got hit and "just lost the roof" and not a large chunk.

Also, Taris, like Coruscant, had MANY levels. So many the planet surface was constantly dark.

Also. please say the quote which that man was talking about. Star Wars cities can mean MANY different sizes.

I'm going to guess you've COMPLETELY ignored those firepower links? Especially since they use your misguided basis that "Mushroom clouds don't appear in the movies, therefore they aren't powerful." Again, I remind you the links use Star Wars canon sources AND the movies to calculate them.

  • 07.09.2011 4:42 PM PDT

I think halo would win. They got the flood, forerunners, Humans. I put Humans in here because if I remember right before the human-Forerunner war humans were tier 1. I don't know if that era of humans would count.

  • 07.09.2011 5:32 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

Halo until Halo 4.

  • 07.09.2011 5:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Blowing off a roof?

What KOTOR did YOU play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpN4wl74CuE Show me a single building that got hit and "just lost the roof" and not a large chunk.

Also, Taris, like Coruscant, had MANY levels. So many the planet surface was constantly dark.

Also. please say the quote which that man was talking about. Star Wars cities can mean MANY different sizes.

I'm going to guess you've COMPLETELY ignored those firepower links? Especially since they use your misguided basis that "Mushroom clouds don't appear in the movies, therefore they aren't powerful." Again, I remind you the links use Star Wars canon sources AND the movies to calculate them.


If a large chunk is blown out of a building.....again, so what? The building was not vaporized, it was left with a large bomb hole.

I have played KotoR 11 times straight through, thanks, and watched that particular scene a hundred times in the movie gallery.

And I really don't care how deep the city goes, to be honest. The fact of the matter is, those bombs were not any more impressive then a modern day artillery shell ramming the side of a building. If the city is two miles deep....more power to them. That just leaves room for more people to be killed by the Flood.

Here's the quote. He also mentions "a small sea" being on the list of things a Destroyer cannot vaporize or boil away with every shot fired at once, if you'll notice.

"Tenn nodded. He'd asked about power storage first day on the simulator, and the engineers had fallen all over themselves backing away from that one. But once he'd seen the numbers--they had to keep them honest, even in sims--he'd figured it out pretty quick. The capacitors could hold enough juice to light up a planet, true enough, but once they discharged, they weren't going to be filling back up real quick.

"Once you shot the thing, you might as well turn out the lights and go take a nap, because it wasn't going to be back up to full power for the better part of a day." (here's the really good part) "True, you could still pump out some pretty low power beams--and the definition of low here was still bigger then what a Star Destroyer could manage, even letting all the hardware spit at once--but it would be a duster instead of a buster. You could scorch a city or two, boil away a large lake or even a small sea, but that was about it."


(Death Star, page 233)

And I have seen that calculation before. Yes it comes from a movie

And yet, so do all of the shots from the battle of Coruscant. It is quite clearly depicted throughout all of Star Wars' lore that their weapons use explosive force as a means of damaging their target; again I refer you to the battle of Coruscant. This would mean that an explosion of 50 gigatons--or even 60 kilotons--would light up like a solar flare, with all of the energy released in a single, titanic detonation, no matter what it hits.

Yet this isn't the case. You are aware of how explosions work, correct? Unconstrained release of energy? So do tell me why I never see any supernovas in any of the battles? I clearly see explosions, so indeed, they are using explosive weapons, but no novas. Why is that cmdr?

Why is that anyone? I, and Master Chief Gunnery Officer Tenn Graneet of the Imperial Navy, commander of Death Star I's primary laser, would like to know.

  • 07.09.2011 5:56 PM PDT

http://bungie.me/sig/noble/Gladius42104.png

star wars wins by far.

  • 07.09.2011 6:04 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

And to mojelda: you say a single shot from KotoR's Leviathan was more powerful then a MAC?

So you mean to tell me each one of those shots was 256 kilotons? Because thats 4 times more powerful then a ship board MAC.
No, I'm saying a Turbo-laser is four times stronger than a MAC, which it is.

  • 07.09.2011 6:06 PM PDT

You always boil down to that, so I'll just boil it down to the same -blam!- thing.

A fuel rod cannon, in the games, does not vaporize a marine. Therefore, it cannot.

Same mechanics, CGI/graphical restraints prevent it.

If you are going to pull a bull-blam!- line and ignore the canon technical data of one side, we'll do the same for both sides. Since we have not seen a forerunner ship's weapons fire, they can't be that powerful right?

  • 07.09.2011 6:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
You always boil down to that, so I'll just boil it down to the same -blam!- thing.

A fuel rod cannon, in the games, does not vaporize a marine. Therefore, it cannot.

Same mechanics, CGI/graphical restraints prevent it.

If you are going to pull a bull-blam!- line and ignore the canon technical data of one side, we'll do the same for both sides. Since we have not seen a forerunner ship's weapons fire, they can't be that powerful right?
So much win, what about when the SMAC that hit the Corvette or the MAC that hit the Spire? They should have been vaproized, and then you say "It was on low power" well then, where is your proof to support this? Even still, it should have came with a force of a nuclear blast which it didn't.

  • 07.09.2011 6:11 PM PDT

May 11 will be known as Halo 2 Day for me from now on.

Well Ive been in the Navy since June 25, 2009 and its a fun job right now.

As much as it sucks to say but Star Wars would win I think...

  • 07.09.2011 6:11 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
You always boil down to that, so I'll just boil it down to the same -blam!- thing.

A fuel rod cannon, in the games, does not vaporize a marine. Therefore, it cannot.

Same mechanics, CGI/graphical restraints prevent it.

If you are going to pull a bull-blam!- line and ignore the canon technical data of one side, we'll do the same for both sides. Since we have not seen a forerunner ship's weapons fire, they can't be that powerful right?
So much win, what about when the SMAC that hit the Corvette or the MAC that hit the Spire? They should have been vaproized, and then you say "It was on low power" well then, where is your proof to support this? Even still, it should have came with a force of a nuclear blast which it didn't.


I believe it wasn't a Supermac that destroyed the corvette in Sword base. Probably a frigate or destroyer.

Though if it was a super-mac, then why wasn't there a massive earthquake from the sheer impact of the round into the crust?

  • 07.09.2011 6:14 PM PDT

Never will I be welcomed, amongst the heartless monsters you surround yourself with, feeding off the pain and misfortune of others, a maniacal breed of sub-human parasites, thrown into a feeding frenzy with the smell of fresh blood, open your eyes and see the creatures for what they are, a swirling mass of hatred and envy, and do not be naïve enough to think you are unaffected, the conversion has already begun.

Let's think about this for a second...
...
Star Wars has(had) a Death Star, which can destroy an entire planet.

Halo has habitable weapons (Gold star :D) that can wipe the galaxy clean of sentient life...

I vote Halo.

  • 07.09.2011 7:51 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

How does this thread keep getting revived?

Who did it? Come on, fess up. Who's responsible for this?

  • 07.09.2011 7:53 PM PDT

I could just imagine MC and Arby taking down thousands of storm troopers and then fighting a star killer. Who would win?

  • 07.09.2011 8:00 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter
How does this thread keep getting revived?

Who did it? Come on, fess up. Who's responsible for this?


Spartan 100.

When I asked him why, in such an all caps rage voice that suggests god himself just died, the culprit merely responded with: "you're welcome."

And it was revived not as a means of furthering discussion, but on an off topic note, asking about a differet thread. THAT was where the rage came from.

  • 07.09.2011 8:01 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

And to mojelda: you say a single shot from KotoR's Leviathan was more powerful then a MAC?

So you mean to tell me each one of those shots was 256 kilotons? Because thats 4 times more powerful then a ship board MAC.
No, I'm saying a Turbo-laser is four times stronger than a MAC, which it is.


If you're referring to the calculation cmdr posted, then you would duely note it specifically says it is four times stronger then the Hiroshima bomb, which is a quarter of the power of a shipboard MAC, plus change.

Hiroshima went up in a 15 kiloton blaze; a MAC hits with 64 kilotons. So in that regard, they are equal.

And you're generalizing turbolasers into one be-all weapon. The cannons in Attack of the Clones that shot down the Core Ships are considered turbolasers, yet they caused the same damage a rocket fired from a gunship did did, just fired longer, causing more damage. Not really impressive.

Obviously ship turbo-lasers are stronger, I would hope, because those 12 legged walkers are weak compared to a MAC.

Still, they brought down a Core Ship.

You always boil down to that, so I'll just boil it down to the same -blam!- thing.

A fuel rod cannon, in the games, does not vaporize a marine. Therefore, it cannot.

Same mechanics, CGI/graphical restraints prevent it.

If you are going to pull a bull-blam!- line and ignore the canon technical data of one side, we'll do the same for both sides. Since we have not seen a forerunner ship's weapons fire, they can't be that powerful right?


No need to get angry, cmdr, for both our sakes. Its clouding your sense of reasoning and ability to read what I wrote.

I never said that the Destroyer could not have vaped that 'roid due to lack of special effects, not this time. No matter how much that IS the reasoning for why it seemed so strong, it never the less was depicted as such, so remains fair game.

However, other factors must be considered. I was pointing out you have one example of a Wars weapon being that strong. I have thousands proving they aren't.

But I'll throw you a bone and show you one other example of a powerful Wars weapon. A Correllian starcruiser one shots a Destroyer at point-blank in Episode 6. It is hard to see, but if you go frame by frame, you'll see it, when Ackbar order the fleet to converge on the Executor.

But even that example has its flaws. I you'll note, the Destroyer explodes not in a singular detonation, but rather goes up in a flame of several, smaller explosions, as if whatever forced it to die was not the shot itself, but rather an internal explosion, likely a reactor failure.

Anyway, my point of the Coruscant battle has, in a way, just been proven. I have yet to see you, or mojelda, through out the entirity of this thread, explain to me why none of those shots fired were cataclysmic, country demolishing blasts.

Because you can't answer me that, for in order to do so would require you to try and explain something that would, given your way, defy the laws of physics,

And even though I've brought it up countless times, I Instead, get equally persistant evasion remarks, ignoring my question entirely, and instead throwing out the Star Destroyer.net calculations. And not to denounce the validity of that calc I assure you!

But rather, why does that calculation have any superior authority over my own plethora of examples? So now we have an internal canon contradiction. So, we, naturally, refer to the canon rules to see what it may say. According to the Holocron Continuity Database:

"When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).[1]"

Similar to how if something in Halo contradicts, the newer canon supercedes the old.

Now lets look at the facts. The most recent release of Ep. V was with the remastered original trilogy in 1997, the one I have. The most recent G-canon installment, and thusly the most accurate current portrayal of Lucas' vision, however, is the 2005 release of Star Wars Episode III, Revenge of the Sith.

This is why I always primarily use the Coruscant battle in my examples.

The only other conclusion that can be drawn is that it is impossible to discern the power of the weapons because of their being to many contradictions. The power of an ISD is contradicted in the final battle of Ep. VI, where the medical frigate and an ISD are trading blows. But like the Venator vs the Invisible Hand, only smaller-scaled explosions occur.

So we are either at a complete impass, and will for all eternity be shouting "I'm right and you're wrong" at each other, or we take the initiative, man-up, look at the canon, look at the facts and come to a logical conclusion.

I vote for the second option.

  • 07.09.2011 8:51 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: dahuterschuter
How does this thread keep getting revived?

Who did it? Come on, fess up. Who's responsible for this?


Spartan 100.

When I asked him why, in such an all caps rage voice that suggests god himself just died, the culprit merely responded with: "you're welcome."

And it was revived not as a means of furthering discussion, but on an off topic note, asking about a differet thread. THAT was where the rage came from.

Puppet master.

  • 07.09.2011 9:17 PM PDT

blarg


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: roraj 196
Posted by: ajw34307
I've got a bad feeling about this...

Fantastic quote :)
Star Wars wins hands down. Jedi and Sith own everyone down with the Force, clones are better than marines, battle droids can be manufactured and weapons are better in general.

And the Death Star can destroy planets, in one shot...

Forerunner INFANTRY can destroy planets. I seriously don't think the Galactic Empire would stand up against the Forerunner Army.

Given that a single containment fleet numbered in the trillions... the Navy probably had ships out the ass.

The Ark can manufacture a Halo in two/three months. Imagine what would happen if that foundry's ancilla was instructed to build ships.
>.<

Forerunners win. That is all.
this

  • 07.09.2011 10:01 PM PDT

Halo. Because in their universe... they can actually aim while shooting.

  • 07.09.2011 10:12 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

You guys aren't entertaining me.

Cover my points!

Do you guys think that the forerunners could possibly build an army hiding in the underworld of coruscant and strike out from it while also hiding design seeds?

  • 07.09.2011 11:18 PM PDT

Okay, to be fair I'll focus on the Episode 6 battle (just watched the entire thing on youtube.) Nebulan B frigates are technically not medical ones, it's just a popular variant. However when the two ships were broadsiding, the ISD didn't have it's heavy guns to bear. I guess my point is, while sometimes the movies/games don't show perhaps the firepower listed in the books or tech data, we can't fully just toss them out.

As for the ISD being hit(Just gotta look for it, the ship attacking it is quickly hidden by Ackbar's head though), kinda looked like a Mon Calimari ship hit it with a full broadside. That is, we don't know if it had received previous damage and most likely it's shields were down. Another thing would be that most of the ships in space battles we've seen are either built (or stolen for the bulk of the rebel fleet) for military forces, thus having appropriate armor.

I hope, at the very least, you can agree Star Wars weapons are powerful. An ISD vs a UNSC or Covenant ship(larger cruisers or carriers at the least) could easily go either way, but if the heavy turbolasers were brought to bear, the ISD would have an advantage. Perhaps not god-powerful, but not weak.

I'd say the main thing that irks me is the treatment of the Star Wars ships as pathetic, insignificant toys, and the boosting of Forerunner ships when we don't understand much about them. I mean, personally it's irritating when we could bring in a specific fight, let's say a small imperial fleet vs a small Covenant or UNSC fleet, and then suddenly the forerunners are there magically for no reason! Even if we use the tech data as a very basic guideline of what they could do with... let's say all power to weapons, it'll really boil down to tactics.

It's why I honestly believe the flood would have a massively difficult time defeating the empire. Not from lack of diverse lifeforms sentient or not that they could infect, but because of how the empire isn't stupid about quarantines, and they have no moral restrictions about killing a fellow infected stormtrooper or destroying half a ship which has been infected.

Here is my comment about this overall. It's pretty damn clear to me that a generic "universe vs universe" style thing WILL not work at all. We have to have some sort of guideline to the thing, or it'll devolve into mindless -blam!- and semi-intelligent raging. It's honestly why I think the jedi vs spartan topic was the only versus topic which had more intelligence and nothing random tossed in. The energy sword vs lightsaber was similar, but it basically ended with several people going "Both excel at what they are made to do, like an axe vs a sword."

So for this, I'd say, establish a ruleset, a guideline. Something everybody would follow to prevent random -blam!-.

Edit: Link to the ep6 complete space battle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ At 6:19 is when the star destroyer is fully exploding that you referenced Roberto.

[Edited on 07.09.2011 11:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2011 11:38 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

How much can the empire afford to loose? You didn't cover my point.

  • 07.10.2011 12:04 AM PDT